ICF doesnt feel like enough

[Ksteez11]

I love going to the gym, its my favorite part of the day. 90% of the people on here recommend ICF 5x5 or some other 3 day workout plan. I tried ICF for a month and I just felt like I wasn't doing enough at the gym, I always wanted to do more. People will slap "overtraining" on anything now adays. How can I not make more progress working out 6 days a week rather than 3? I understand muscles take time to repair themselves but if im doing back/bi monday, chest/tri tuesday, legs/calves wed, and repeat thur, fri sat, having sunday as my rest day, then my muscles are getting atleast 2 days of rest in between days. I feel like thats enough. I UNDERSTAND ICF AND OTHER 3 DAY PROGRAMS ARE PROVEN TO WORK but I feel like my schedule would not only work but give even better results. What are your thoughts on this?

[ryan0931]

How much are you lifting atm

[Ksteez11]

How much are you lifting atm

Ill do 3 excercises per muscle group.
3 workouts for bi
3 workouts for back
Each workout ill do 3x8

I do this for all 6 days

[ryan0931]

I thought you did ICF?

The point of the program is to increase your main lifts. You are probably not feeling the "pump" because you are not at a heavy weight yet. Once your lifts get heavier you will feel the intensity and probably need to rest plus ICF can be 4x a week?

[Kornelius200]

Ill do 3 excercises per muscle group.
3 workouts for bi
3 workouts for back
Each workout ill do 3x8

I do this for all 6 days

Look at all the back muscles, now look at the bicep. Does it make sense to work them equally much ? no.
When do you work shoulders?

[orion792]

Lol. Stick to the program. It is supposed to be easy at first,because you're supposed to get your technique down. You're also supposed to increase the load from week to week. You can't just quit a program after a month because it's "too easy".
What were your lifts before and after your period with icf?how much did you progress?

[Ksteez11]

I dont think you work a muscle harder because its bigger than other muscles lol. Tricep is 2/3 of your arm, bicep being 1/3 but you dont work one more than the other, however the weight you use should differ obviously. And ive gone up on all my lifts using this for about 10lbs each, except abs. On the crunch machine i started at 30 and now im all the way up to 70. Ive been working out about a month and a half now. Bench and squat are my slowest progression so far though, but I have essentially no chest and my legs are very small so I suspect thats why. Im only putting 25 on each side for bench and ill be adding 5 to each side today. I did take a week away from the gym for spring break so I feel like I lost a bit of strength when I came back but I should be okay now.

[orion792]

I dont think you work a muscle harder because its bigger than other muscles lol.

Yes,you do. It doesn't make any sense to give the same frequency to your tiny biceps and to your lats. Do yourself a favor and stick to the program. If you follow whatever comes to your mind,you'll be posting here in 6 months ranting about how you look the same or how you got fat.

[Ksteez11]

Yes,you do. It doesn't make any sense to give the same frequency to your tiny biceps and to your lats. Do yourself a favor and stick to the program. If you follow whatever comes to your mind,you'll be posting here in 6 months ranting about how you look the same or how you got fat.

I dont see how there should be a frequency difference in muscle workouts? Weight difference is obvious but youre basically putting a mental handicap on yourself saying just because its a smaller muscle I shouldnt have to work it as much.

Edit: if I got fat I would be very happy, gaining weight is very difficult for me, but im just now starting to really bulk. I wrestled all throughout highschool so my eating habits probably are not what they should be lol

[orion792]

I dont see how there should be a frequency difference in muscle workouts? Weight difference is obvious but youre basically putting a mental handicap on yourself saying just because its a smaller muscle I shouldnt have to work it as much.

Edit: if I got fat I would be very happy, gaining weight is very difficult for me, but im just now starting to really bulk. I wrestled all throughout highschool so my eating habits probably are not what they should be lol

By frequency I actually ment volume. In the end it doesn't matter as both frequency and volume should go together (which in your case,they don't,because you don't have the knowledge to make an efficient program). Smaller muscle groups need less stimulation to grow and get stronger.
Also if you just want to gain weight just eat junk food every day that will do it. It's one thing to get fat and it's another to gain quality weight (muscle).

[EGN123]

I dont see how there should be a frequency difference in muscle workouts? Weight difference is obvious but youre basically putting a mental handicap on yourself saying just because its a smaller muscle I shouldnt have to work it as much.

Edit: if I got fat I would be very happy, gaining weight is very difficult for me, but im just now starting to really bulk. I wrestled all throughout highschool so my eating habits probably are not what they should be lol

Bicep is small and consists of two heads back is made up of many muscles it makes sense to do more for it , also wait til you're hitting PRs every session and them you won't complain about it being enough, it kind of seems like you've got your mind set on quitting ICF but make sure you know it'll benefit you in the long term to stay on

[Ksteez11]

By frequency I actually ment volume. In the end it doesn't matter as both frequency and volume should go together (which in your case,they don't,because you don't have the knowledge to make an efficient program). Smaller muscle groups need less stimulation to grow and get stronger.
Also if you just want to gain weight just eat junk food every day that will do it. It's one thing to get fat and it's another to gain quality weight (muscle).

I understand where you're coming from, if I saw some research to back that up I would change my plan. I just feel like im getting more by working more. I think 3 sets of 8 isnt overtraining the bicep but I could most definitely be wrong! Also some of the plans I see people follow are from random meat heads. Just because you're big doesnt make you an expert on workout plans. There is a 6 day workout plan very similar to mine that was made by a doctor. Id rather follow a doctor than a forum celebrity any day!

[EGN123]

I understand where you're coming from, if I saw some research to back that up I would change my plan. I just feel like im getting more by working more. I think 3 sets of 8 isnt overtraining the bicep but I could most definitely be wrong! Also some of the plans I see people follow are from random meat heads. Just because you're big doesnt make you an expert on workout plans. There is a 6 day workout plan very similar to mine that was made by a doctor. Id rather follow a doctor than a forum celebrity any day!

Not trying to argue but a doctor had no more knowledge on training than anyone on here they're not qualified in anything to do with lifting, take the fact that every well known beginner program has more work for bigger muscles as proof , there's no point continuing this discussion if you aren't goin to listen to what people tell you

[Ksteez11]

Not trying to argue but a doctor had no more knowledge on training than anyone on here they're not qualified in anything to do with lifting, take the fact that every well known beginner program has more work for bigger muscles as proof , there's no point continuing this discussion if you aren't goin to listen to what people tell you

What? Doctors know more about the human body than anyone else im confused? And I already said that I see how ICF produces great results, and was just implying that a 6 day program could probably produce more. Aka im not doing ICF. Ill post some transformation pics in the future. I did this program once already and I got some crazy gains but I got into a relationship and stopped working out for a year and a half ): seems harder this time around than last

[EGN123]

What? Doctors know more about the human body than anyone else im confused? And I already said that I see how ICF produces great results, and was just implying that a 6 day program could probably produce more. Aka im not doing ICF. Ill post some transformation pics in the future. I did this program once already and I got some crazy gains but I got into a relationship and stopped working out for a year and a half ): seems harder this time around than last

As a beginner ICF or another beginner programme are known to be the best and fastest to progress but ultimately you will go with what you want, and no a doctor is not qualified in weightliftig programs

[orion792]

Lol,why do you think Jason Blaha (the maker of icf 5x5) is a "forum hero"??Also,if you have everything figured out,why are you posting?just follow whatever your doctor tells you to.
Also I didn't say 3x8 on biceps is "overtraining". You won't overtrain trust me,you're too weak for that. But it doesn't make sense to give the same volume to your biceps and to your lats.
Good luck.
edit:doctors are ment to heal your body,they don't know the best way possible to gain muscle and strength. Also,you say you made crazy gains on that 6 day program and you "lost" your gains?Trust me,you didn't "lose" your gains,because you didn't make any in the first place. If you had made crazy gains like you claim you would know your programming and you wouldn't post here saying icf "feels" like too little,you obviously don't know what you're doing.
Again,good luck.

[Ksteez11]

Lol,why do you think Jason Blaha (the maker of icf 5x5) is a "forum hero"??Also,if you have everything figured out,why are you posting?just follow whatever your doctor tells you to.
Also I didn't say 3x8 on biceps is "overtraining". You won't overtrain trust me,you're too weak for that. But it doesn't make sense to give the same volume to your biceps and to your lats.
Good luck.
edit:doctors are ment to heal your body,they don't know the best way possible to gain muscle and strength. Also,you say you made crazy gains on that 6 day program and you "lost" your gains?Trust me,you didn't "lose" your gains,because you didn't make any in the first place.

Umm just an example, I went from not being able to do one wide grip pull up to being able to add 10 lbs on a belt doing 3 sets of 8 on them. If you sit around and do nothing for a year and a half you will most definitely lose your gains. Sorry youre mad that I dont like your workout plans creator, dont get too upset. Ill post my transformation later and ill post a workout plan for you to follow since you will follow anyone who posts one on the forum. Also the knowledge that your such an expert on comes from the research that DOCTORS do. If anyone is qualified in making any workout plan, its a doctor. As I said before, post the research and ill follow it, im not closed minded, I will follow what is proven. Anybody can say anything on the forums.

[orion792]

I'm not mad at all I just don't get why so many people come here looking for advice and then do whatever they want to do because apparently they know better. If you already have a workout plan made by a doctor why come seek advice from us?
I'll look forward to that "transformation" .
edit:Also,I don't follow icf 5x5,never have,never will.
edit2: Are you even reading my posts?I never said you won't make progress on a 6 day split. But as a weak beginner you will make more efficient progress doing full body. Your back/core and your whole body really is weak. Doing heavy compounds with high frequency will give the best results,simple.
For the third time,good luck. I've posted enough in this thread.

[Ksteez11]

Its like you've all had ICF or SS shoved down you're throat so hard that anything other than that is completely bullsh*t and if you dont do it then you wont get any gains. I didnt post asking for ICF facts, I asked for thoughts on a 6 day program. If you dont think a 6 day program will work then leave your opinion.

[Ksteez11]

I'm not mad at all I just don't get why so many people come here looking for advice and then do whatever they want to do because apparently they know better. If you already have a workout plan made by a doctor why come seek advice from us?
I'll look forward to that "transformation" .

I didnt ask for advice friend, I asked for thoughts (:

[EGN123]

Its like you've all had ICF or SS shoved down you're throat so hard that anything other than that is completely bullsh*t and if you dont do it then you wont get any gains. I didnt post asking for ICF facts, I asked for thoughts on a 6 day program. If you dont think a 6 day program will work then leave your opinion.

It seems to me like you're the one who's mad tbh, did you ever think that people recommend those programmes because they're known to be better? Of course you made gains you'll make gains on any program but people will recommend the programme that is most optimal for you. Also to finish you do know there are more than one type of doctor right? You're correct in saying the information on here comes largely from doctors research but not the same type of doctor you go to when youre sick

[Ksteez11]

It seems to me like you're the one who's mad tbh, did you ever think that people recommend those programmes because they're known to be better? Of course you made gains you'll make gains on any program but people will recommend the programme that is most optimal for you. Also to finish you do know there are more than one type of doctor right? You're correct in saying the information on here comes largely from doctors research but not the same type of doctor you go to when youre sick

Never once did I imply that I was talking about a doctor you go to for being sick though? I thank you for recommending ICF but I feel like my program would be better. My reasons being purely mental. I like being in the gym a lot, and I feel like ICF wasnt enough (:

[EGN123]

Never once did I imply that I was talking about a doctor you go to for being sick though? I thank you for recommending ICF but I feel like my program would be better. My reasons being purely mental. I like being in the gym a lot, and I feel like ICF wasnt enough (:

I just don't see the need for this thread at all then your decision was made, lastly then can you enlighten me on what type of doctor you went to because I don't believe that you went to a doctor of exercise physiology or any other who would have expertise on creating a program. It's clear that you've made a decision so you have nothing to prove.

[ryan0931]

Its like you've all had ICF or SS shoved down you're throat so hard that anything other than that is completely bullsh*t and if you dont do it then you wont get any gains. I didnt post asking for ICF facts, I asked for thoughts on a 6 day program. If you dont think a 6 day program will work then leave your opinion.

Lol you come on here asking for our thoughts. You say ICF is not enough but you are still lifting light weight which the program should be in the beginning. We tell you to stick to it because it will get harder and you argue with us. There was really no point in posting this thread if you had it all figured out.

[CJ93UK]

Never once did I imply that I was talking about a doctor you go to for being sick though? I thank you for recommending ICF but I feel like my program would be better. My reasons being purely mental. I like being in the gym a lot, and I feel like ICF wasnt enough (:

In the context of preference, yes, your program would probably be better if you like being in the gym many days during the week. Most people here will tell you what'll get you the best results, I won't comment on the overall effectiveness of your routine, however if it's what you like doing, then it's what you like doing. If you wanna go to the gym and do what you like doing, as opposed to lifting optimally (I understand not everyone seeks absolute perfection in their training) then you're free to do that.

My "thoughts" regarding the 6 day program are similar to what you've already received though. Research shows that higher frequency, lower volume training is optimal for beginners/novices, if you want me to explain that better I will. Your routine is lower frequency, and higher volume than most of the common beginner/novice routines featured here, and as such, I think it's the opposite of what would yield best results for you, in terms of F/V. In regard to the finer aspects, progression, stalling/deload protocols, balance, so on, I don't think you're qualified to make a solid progression scheme or balance your routine correctly, although that's only an assumption based on your training experience and knowledge presented in this thread thus far.

With that in mind, I'd say mentally, your program is better. Physically, and in regard to best results, I'm not saying ICF or SS are perfect, but the pros of these routines, in comparison to your own, by scientific and common evidence of what works best for people, your routine is not going to produce the best results, and so the question is back to you. Do you wanna lift by preference, or by results? You can try to strike a balance, go 100% 1 way or the other, but most people on this site will (for obvious reasons) tell you what they think is going to produce best results, and if you argue against that, discussions are over, and it's your turn to choose between the options given.

I will say 1 thing, if you found ICF to be "easy", you didn't run it correctly for a sustained period of time. By nature, LP programming only gets harder and harder the longer it carries on, and so if it never got difficult for you, you likely didn't succeed in hitting high numbers and progressing through to the intermediate stage, which is not a fault of the program.

[Dan3317]

It's hard to give thoughts on a routine when one hasn't been posted.

[s58]

First off, you don't know what you are doing. The routine you tried to make up is dumb... which is not surprising as most beginners on here do the same.

Stick with ICF. If anything, ICF has the most volume out of any full body routine I have seen. Each session is like 2 hours long.. too much if you ask me. And you think its not enough? Lol you are doing something wrong then. And you only went on it for a month.

ICF will produce greater results than a push pull leg routine because you are working your muscles 3x a week vs only 2x a week with the push pull leg. That's the basic short answer as to why full body routines are better.

[EatLiftRest]

I love going to the gym, its my favorite part of the day. 90% of the people on here recommend ICF 5x5 or some other 3 day workout plan. I tried ICF for a month and I just felt like I wasn't doing enough at the gym, I always wanted to do more. People will slap "overtraining" on anything now adays. How can I not make more progress working out 6 days a week rather than 3? I understand muscles take time to repair themselves but if im doing back/bi monday, chest/tri tuesday, legs/calves wed, and repeat thur, fri sat, having sunday as my rest day, then my muscles are getting atleast 2 days of rest in between days. I feel like thats enough. I UNDERSTAND ICF AND OTHER 3 DAY PROGRAMS ARE PROVEN TO WORK but I feel like my schedule would not only work but give even better results. What are your thoughts on this?

Had the same problem as you OP, switched from a chitty 6-day bro-split to ICF 5x5. Lifts have gone up massively, and I've gotten gains out the wazoo. Like everyone else has said, if you want to, do whatever you like. I'm just telling you that ICF 5x5 is the best program I've been on so far.

[AFC96]

Of course its easy, its your own stupid program, not ICF5x5.

On top of that you are weak as ****(according to your potential), so no wonder its easy.

[basmca]

if you're going to make your own program you need to watch this