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  1. #151
    Registered User JoelParenze's Avatar
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    Substitute

    I have been lifting at home in my small gym for the last 2 months and haven't been getting results. Main goal , being an ectormorph is to gain size , mainly on waist. Im ready to start following this program , but since I have limited equipment I can perform some exercises, so I ask what would you recommend would be good substitues for the exercises listed down, keeping in mind I have a bench for press , Dumbells and a bar:
    -rope pressdowns (D2)
    -preacher curls (D3)
    -seated rows (D3)
    -Wide grip pull-ups (D3)
    -seated rows (D3)

    I dont have the equipment to do these exercises and knowing they are primarily preferences for the good results they provide , I just want to know are recommendations of exercises that could replace ones listed above that have good results either for the very mitied equipment :/
    Thanks and I appreciate all help given
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  2. #152
    Tu papi Jasonk282's Avatar
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    Just do what you can.

    My set up is

    Floor press, barbell row, ohp, barbell pullover, barbell curl

    Front squat, rdl, GHR
    OG
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  3. #153
    Registered User nerynery's Avatar
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    -rope pressdowns (D2)
    Tricep kickback, skull crushers

    -preacher curls (D3)
    Dumbell curls

    -seated rows (D3)
    Chest-supported rows, 1-Arm Dumbell Row, Pendlay rows

    -Wide grip pull-ups (D3)
    Get a Pull-up bar, costs 15$ on ebay or Amazon, there is no movement to replace vertical pulls
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  4. #154
    Registered User shamrockwin's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Kelei View Post
    Pretty much.
    Kel, some questions I'd appreciate you answering when you've got time.

    Anything wrong with using 15 reps on everything except calves (30)?

    Can we do just Standing Calf Raises daily? My Seated Calf Raises are rubbish in my garage.

    Any home/garage alternative for Leg Curls?

    For Pre-Workout, can we go with Milk and Whey instead of adding Dextrose or eating fruit? How much milk would be best and how much Cocoa do you add to your shake?
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  5. #155
    Registered User nerynery's Avatar
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    Subs for Leg Curl would be Glute Ham Raise or Barbell Glute Bridge.
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  6. #156
    Registered User xxx_jfb_xxx's Avatar
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    Tried the "elbows flared" on the bench press yesterday. Idk if I like it... it's not a big deal that I couldn't do as much weight but the load just seems to be too much on the shoulders. Idk if I like it at all... didn't seem to work my chest any better.

    Speaking of shoulders, anyone else's shoulders lacking in vascularity? Maybe it's a genetic thing for me. My shoulders don't look swole like my biceps, triceps, lats & chest do. It's disproportionate. Thinking about adding in some extra shoulder work... maybe some military presses or front raises... something...
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  7. #157
    Tu papi Jasonk282's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by xxx_jfb_xxx View Post
    Tried the "elbows flared" on the bench press yesterday. Idk if I like it... it's not a big deal that I couldn't do as much weight but the load just seems to be too much on the shoulders. Idk if I like it at all... didn't seem to work my chest any better.

    Speaking of shoulders, anyone else's shoulders lacking in vascularity? Maybe it's a genetic thing for me. My shoulders don't look swole like my biceps, triceps, lats & chest do. It's disproportionate. Thinking about adding in some extra shoulder work... maybe some military presses or front raises... something...
    Are you doing any OHP work?

    Personally it's the ONLY direct shoulder work that I do
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  8. #158
    FNO ThatOneLurker's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by xxx_jfb_xxx View Post
    Tried the "elbows flared" on the bench press yesterday. Idk if I like it... it's not a big deal that I couldn't do as much weight but the load just seems to be too much on the shoulders. Idk if I like it at all... didn't seem to work my chest any better.

    Speaking of shoulders, anyone else's shoulders lacking in vascularity? Maybe it's a genetic thing for me. My shoulders don't look swole like my biceps, triceps, lats & chest do. It's disproportionate. Thinking about adding in some extra shoulder work... maybe some military presses or front raises... something...

    My shoulders have always responded extremely well to side raises and rear delt flyes. I think they're my second best bodypart next to my back.

    But back when I first started the original PPL I always did way more volume for side raises then I did for any other exercises because I wanted my side delt to cast a shadow.
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  9. #159
    Mesomorphicamerican NewAgeMayan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ThatOneLurker View Post
    My shoulders have always responded extremely well to side raises and rear delt flyes. I think they're my second best bodypart next to my back.

    But back when I first started the original PPL I always did way more volume for side raises then I did for any other exercises because I wanted my side delt to cast a shadow.
    Pretty much my experience as well. Plus doing these:

    Olympus Labs
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  10. #160
    Registered User xxx_jfb_xxx's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Jasonk282 View Post
    Are you doing any OHP work?

    Personally it's the ONLY direct shoulder work that I do
    I've only been doing the side raises. Before Kelei's routine I did overhead presses, arnold presses, side raises & rear delt flyes (shoulders was all in 1 day, only day I did them during the week).

    I think delts are the only muscle group that has gone down in volume... which might be why I'm noticing it more.
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  11. #161
    Registered User GeraltOfRivia5's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by xxx_jfb_xxx View Post
    I've only been doing the side raises. Before Kelei's routine I did overhead presses, arnold presses, side raises & rear delt flyes (shoulders was all in 1 day, only day I did them during the week).

    I think delts are the only muscle group that has gone down in volume... which might be why I'm noticing it more.
    In this new routine Kelei says we can do side raises everyday, "responds very well to high frequency training". Might be something you could try out -- will definitely not be "has gone down in volume" if you do that
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  12. #162
    Registered User xxx_jfb_xxx's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GeraltOfRivia5 View Post
    In this new routine Kelei says we can do side raises everyday, "responds very well to high frequency training". Might be something you could try out -- will definitely not be "has gone down in volume" if you do that
    Good call!
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  13. #163
    Team Kelei davo26's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NewAgeMayan View Post
    Pretty much my experience as well. Plus doing these:

    forgive me if im being a bit stupid, but arent they just the same as lat raises, but with shorter levers and higher weight? the shoulder still does the same amount of work as a lat raise (lighter dumbell with outstretched arm so longer lever)?
    Kelei routine log - http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=148907233
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  14. #164
    Mesomorphicamerican NewAgeMayan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by davo26 View Post
    forgive me if im being a bit stupid, but arent they just the same as lat raises, but with shorter levers and higher weight? the shoulder still does the same amount of work as a lat raise (lighter dumbell with outstretched arm so longer lever)?
    I've tweaked the form compared to what he does, I try to move the db in an arc (so its less of an upright row movement), and I lean slightly forward with my upper arm-torso close to a 90deg angle (similiar to what Kelei recommends for lying rear delt flyes I believe?)...the mid-rear delt pump is un-fkin-believable
    Olympus Labs
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  15. #165
    Tu papi Jasonk282's Avatar
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    Decided to do some rest pause training this morning on legs...

    front squats
    120*12,5,5,5,5,5,5,5

    RDL
    190*10,5,5,5,5,5,5,5

    GHR
    10,10,10,10,10
    OG
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  16. #166
    Registered User shamrockwin's Avatar
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    Is there anything behind using very high reps for satellite cell activation?
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  17. #167
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    Subbed.

    Great post once again Kelei, I like the fact that iteration after iteration the routine comes out even simpler.
    Got a quick question: In the OP, it is mentioned that "Side delts, calves and abs can be trained daily, these muscle groups respond exceptionally well to high frequency training" . I will follow that advice, but where would I have to look for to get more insight on that statement? On which principle is it based ? Cheers!
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  18. #168
    True nihilist EmperorRyker's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Jasonk282 View Post
    Decided to do some rest pause training this morning on legs...

    front squats
    120*12,5,5,5,5,5,5,5

    RDL
    190*10,5,5,5,5,5,5,5
    How long are your rest-pause breaks? I'm always dreading these two exercises, because they're just brutal done this way, as I only take around 5 - 10 seconds between sets to get 3 - 5 reps.
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  19. #169
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    How on earth do you only need 5-10 seconds between sets on front squats

    I take like a minute lol
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  20. #170
    Registered User jmmainvi's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MichielN View Post
    How on earth do you only need 5-10 seconds between sets on front squats

    I take like a minute lol
    Agreed. I was in the 10-20 second range when I just started doing rest-pause, but as it's gone on and my weights have gone up (nearly doubled my front squat since the start of october) I'm more like 40 seconds between sets.
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  21. #171
    True nihilist EmperorRyker's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MichielN View Post
    How on earth do you only need 5-10 seconds between sets on front squats

    I take like a minute lol
    Well, I guess it could be a bit more when it comes down to it. I rack the bar, go and take 3 - 5 deep breaths, and go back under it. So the total rest time from last rep of the previous set to the first one of the subsequent set is longer. Usually this has me doing, say, 10-5-4-4-3-3-3. Keep in mind I'm doing pussy weights, though (95 lbs). I mean, this is heavy for me, but perhaps because it's not much "objectively" I require less rest. I'm not sure I believe what I just proposed, but just throwing it out there.
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  22. #172
    Tu papi Jasonk282's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by EmperorRyker View Post
    How long are your rest-pause breaks? I'm always dreading these two exercises, because they're just brutal done this way, as I only take around 5 - 10 seconds between sets to get 3 - 5 reps.
    30 seconds for every set. Normally I do them 5*10 with a minute rest
    OG
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  23. #173
    Registered User MaruchanRamen's Avatar
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    OP looking to switch up my routine since I been on it for a while now. Is there a reason why you don't recommend doing this on a low carb diet?
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  24. #174
    Banned Kelei's Avatar
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    I'm going to be absent for a few months, things are a little busy right now between studies, work and taking care of clients.
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  25. #175
    Counting down Effrum's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by shamrockwin View Post
    Kel, some questions I'd appreciate you answering when you've got time.

    Anything wrong with using 15 reps on everything except calves (30)?

    Can we do just Standing Calf Raises daily? My Seated Calf Raises are rubbish in my garage.

    Any home/garage alternative for Leg Curls?

    For Pre-Workout, can we go with Milk and Whey instead of adding Dextrose or eating fruit? How much milk would be best and how much Cocoa do you add to your shake?
    1) Nothing wrong with doing a 15RM.
    2) Standing calf raise only is fine, it's the more "important" one anyway.
    3) Glute Ham Raise, like nerynery said.
    4) It would work, but the lactose from milk can't be used to restore muscle glycogen like glucose/dextrose can (if I remember right only 50% of the calories from lactose can go toward muscle glycogen, the other 50% replenishes liver glycogen). So dextrose would be the "better" choice (since glucose can replenish muscle or liver glycogen based on need), but I doubt it would make or break you.

    Originally Posted by MaruchanRamen View Post
    OP looking to switch up my routine since I been on it for a while now. Is there a reason why you don't recommend doing this on a low carb diet?
    The workout volume is very difficult to pull off on a low carb diet. I mean, I'm doing this routine on a cut, so my carbs are low, but so is my volume. I can only manage ~20 reps per exercise doing full-body. Any more and I bonk out hard. Just do as much volume as you can for your carb intake, and remember that if you have a hard time reaching your rep goals, you might need to add more carbs.
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  26. #176
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    Originally Posted by Effrum View Post
    1) Nothing wrong with doing a 15RM.
    2) Standing calf raise only is fine, it's the more "important" one anyway.
    3) Glute Ham Raise, like nerynery said.
    4) It would work, but the lactose from milk can't be used to restore muscle glycogen like glucose/dextrose can (if I remember right only 50% of the calories from lactose can go toward muscle glycogen, the other 50% replenishes liver glycogen). So dextrose would be the "better" choice (since glucose can replenish muscle or liver glycogen based on need), but I doubt it would make or break you.


    The workout volume is very difficult to pull off on a low carb diet. I mean, I'm doing this routine on a cut, so my carbs are low, but so is my volume. I can only manage ~20 reps per exercise doing full-body. Any more and I bonk out hard. Just do as much volume as you can for your carb intake, and remember that if you have a hard time reaching your rep goals, you might need to add more carbs.
    So if I increase the weight at 15 do I need to increase volume? I find around 10 reps feels too heavy, around 20 is too light, I tried several tests i attempted and 90% of the time my 75% lands between 14-16 reps.

    Just do standing calf raises daily? 100 reps with my 30 rep weight.

    What's the best way to do GHRs at home? Bit of a nightmare training at home.

    Is Fruit & Milk-Whey okay pre?
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  27. #177
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    Originally Posted by shamrockwin View Post
    So if I increase the weight at 15 do I need to increase volume? I find around 10 reps feels too heavy, around 20 is too light, I tried several tests i attempted and 90% of the time my 75% lands between 14-16 reps.

    Just do standing calf raises daily? 100 reps with my 30 rep weight.

    What's the best way to do GHRs at home? Bit of a nightmare training at home.

    Is Fruit & Milk-Whey okay pre?
    You can increase volume to compensate for the slightly lighter weight, yeah. It would be a good idea, but it won't break you. Play around with it and see what works best.

    Yeah, you can do them daily like that. It's what I do.

    As far as doing GHR at home, do you have anything you can kneel in front of (so your feet are pointing to it behind you) and hook your feet on? Just find a way to anchor yourself that is comfortable so you can do the movement. That's pretty much it. When you're ready to add weight, you can either hold a plate or put on a backpack with weight in it.

    Fruit and Milk pose the same issue as above - most of those calories can only be used to restore liver glycogen. But, like I said, I don't think it'll make-or-break you, so if that's what you wanna do then go for it.
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  28. #178
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    Originally Posted by shamrockwin View Post

    What's the best way to do GHRs at home? Bit of a nightmare training at home.
    Load up a barbell with at least your bodyweight. Place 10 lb weights on either side of the plates on the floor to stop them from rolling. Kneel and lock your ankles on the barbell, proceed to do GHR with a little assistance getting off the floor like with poly push ups.

    If you can wrap a towel or something around the bar because it will dig in a hurt like hell eventually.
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  29. #179
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    Originally Posted by davo26 View Post
    forgive me if im being a bit stupid, but arent they just the same as lat raises, but with shorter levers and higher weight? the shoulder still does the same amount of work as a lat raise (lighter dumbell with outstretched arm so longer lever)?
    I tried them more as a 1 arm upright row... I could definitely feel them in my traps a little, but I could see the striations in my shoulder working, they were pumped and looked awesome after 50 reps.
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  30. #180
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    Originally Posted by jmmainvi View Post
    Agreed. I was in the 10-20 second range when I just started doing rest-pause, but as it's gone on and my weights have gone up (nearly doubled my front squat since the start of october) I'm more like 40 seconds between sets.
    I'm still doing them in 20s range .. The thing is i'm totally destroyed after just squats and rdls .. So I'm thinking moving to straight sets when doing these, as it will lead to less burnout and maybe will be able to progress faster as I'm still stuck at 225x10
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