Hypertrophy/Bodybuilding Routine

[parashenkka]

I've been doing weighted chins instead of the chest supported rows.
Will this be ok for the sake of my shoulder health as I've no horizontal pull to counteract bench press?
I know that atleast Arnolds Golden Six doesn't run any horizontal pulls.

[Jasonk282]

I've been doing weighted chins instead of the chest supported rows.
Will this be ok for the sake of my shoulder health as I've no horizontal pull to counteract bench press?
I know that atleast Arnolds Golden Six doesn't run any horizontal pulls.

rows are a good way to build a nice strong bench.. I wouldn't stop doing chins...but I'd add rows in as well.

[Effrum]

I've been doing weighted chins instead of the chest supported rows.
Will this be ok for the sake of my shoulder health as I've no horizontal pull to counteract bench press?
I know that atleast Arnolds Golden Six doesn't run any horizontal pulls.

You definitely need a horizontal pull, chin ups aren't going to counter-balance the front delt involvement of push movements like bench press. Like Jason said, keeping the chin ups is fine, but you really need to add a horizontal pulling movement (like rows).

[xxx_jfb_xxx]

If it's that uncomfortable then does your gym have one of these?




You could perform rows on these with your chest on the pad.


Or continue doing mower rows but throwing in reverse flyes.

We have something similar... my problem with that machine is I have a really tough time feeling the muscle contract. I probably could get that to work though if I found a good height for the seat, etc.

[ThatOneLurker]

We have something similar... my problem with that machine is I have a really tough time feeling the muscle contract. I probably could get that to work though if I found a good height for the seat, etc.

Experiment with it. I still find myself experimenting with that machine but the most important part is the contraction. Using the neutral grip (palms facing each other) may help with feeling it more.

But like I said, mower rows with reverse flyes are acceptable.

[nerynery]

Man, went back to the gym after my deload, started by doing Slight Incline Bench for a change, something I never do, and I find it really really bad for my shoulders. I just did 10 reps of 180 lbs and went directly to grab some dumbells and do 15º incl db press.

Incline Bench Press is really one of the worst ****s ever imo, lifting that bar off in the beginning is a shoulder-killer.

[64509chvl]

We have something similar... my problem with that machine is I have a really tough time feeling the muscle contract. I probably could get that to work though if I found a good height for the seat, etc.

I have/use one of these & love it, although mine is plates with pin adjustment on a cable...same support & movement. I would suggest to start a bit light to learn contraction. You'll admire it in no time!

I'm using is extremely light right now for rehabbing my shoulder

[64509chvl]

Man, went back to the gym after my deload, started by doing Slight Incline Bench for a change, something I never do, and I find it really really bad for my shoulders. I just did 10 reps of 180 lbs and went directly to grab some dumbells and do 15º incl db press.

Incline Bench Press is really one of the worst ****s ever imo, lifting that bar off in the beginning is a shoulder-killer.

Unfortunately I respond the same way with it...for myself, I won't be going back to any BB pressing. Need to do what's best for me. Some will never experience this discomfort, but to others it can be quite an issue.

[parashenkka]

You definitely need a horizontal pull, chin ups aren't going to counter-balance the front delt involvement of push movements like bench press. Like Jason said, keeping the chin ups is fine, but you really need to add a horizontal pulling movement (like rows).

What if I added reverse flyes or facepulls instead? Would that do it?

[ThatOneLurker]

What if I added reverse flyes or facepulls instead? Would that do it?

How many chest movements are you doing?

If one then add reverse flyes, if two then add them both.

[parashenkka]

How many chest movements are you doing?

If one then add reverse flyes, if two then add them both.

Im doing fullbody: Bench, Chins, Triceps pressdown, Curl, Lateral rise, Front Squat, Weighted hypers(ham version), Calves

My girlfriend is competing in chin ups (yes it's a thing), and that's why I like doing them too.
So if I added reverse flyes, it would be ok shoulderwise?

[Effrum]

Im doing fullbody: Bench, Chins, Triceps pressdown, Curl, Lateral rise, Front Squat, Weighted hypers(ham version), Calves

My girlfriend is competing in chin ups (yes it's a thing), and that's why I like doing them too.
So if I added reverse flyes, it would be ok shoulderwise?

Yep, that's got it

[xxx_jfb_xxx]

Anyone split legs into push/pull? I'm thinking of trying it just because I hate leg day so freaking much... maybe splitting them up with some upper body would motivate me since I'll get the best of both worlds? I haven't tried it for years.

Any idea how that would work? Something like this?

Push
Bench Press
Side Lateral Raise
Tricep Pressdown
Front Squat
Leg Extension
Calf Raise

Pull
Romanian Deadlift
Leg Curls
Lat Pulldowns
Row
Rear Delt Raise
Bicep Curls

I don't think I left anything out..

[Effrum]

Anyone split legs into push/pull? I'm thinking of trying it just because I hate leg day so freaking much... maybe splitting them up with some upper body would motivate me since I'll get the best of both worlds? I haven't tried it for years.

Any idea how that would work? Something like this?

Push
Bench Press
Side Lateral Raise
Tricep Pressdown
Front Squat
Leg Extension
Calf Raise

Pull
Romanian Deadlift
Leg Curls
Lat Pulldowns
Row
Rear Delt Raise
Bicep Curls

I don't think I left anything out..

This is what I was doing instead of a pure U/L when I had a 2-day split. I found it much more tolerable than doing FS + RDL in the same day 3 times a week lol. I would probably add flys to your push days since you have rows and rear delt work on pull. Just a thought.

[Alyion]

fwiw, I do a push/pull, but only with front squats on pull day (due to leg curls and gms) - my split goes

Low Incline
Dips
DB Flat Presses (used to do flies)
Wide Upright row
French Presses
Pushdowns

Fr Squat
Leg Extension
Pendlay Row
Chin ups
Good Mornings
Curls
Leg Curls

I would do calf work everyday - i'll also admit I hate training back (the idea of pulling something isn't as cool as grinding out a pressing exercise ) so I would probably never do back on its own day anyways.

[xxx_jfb_xxx]

This is what I was doing instead of a pure U/L when I had a 2-day split. I found it much more tolerable than doing FS + RDL in the same day 3 times a week lol. I would probably add flys to your push days since you have rows and rear delt work on pull. Just a thought.

Yeah that's a lot of my problem as well. I dread leg day because I'm totally drained after squats and deadlifts then its like ****, I'm not even halfway through my workout!

[Jasonk282]

Anyone split legs into push/pull? I'm thinking of trying it just because I hate leg day so freaking much... maybe splitting them up with some upper body would motivate me since I'll get the best of both worlds? I haven't tried it for years.

Any idea how that would work? Something like this?

Push
Bench Press
Side Lateral Raise
Tricep Pressdown
Front Squat
Leg Extension
Calf Raise

Pull
Romanian Deadlift
Leg Curls
Lat Pulldowns
Row
Rear Delt Raise
Bicep Curls

I don't think I left anything out..

I'm not a big fan of push/pulls. I prefer U/L.

My current split.

Upper
floor press 30 reps
barbell row 30 reps
barbell OHP 30 reps
barbell pullover 40 reps
barbell drag curls 40 reps

Lower
Front squat 30 reps
RDL 30 reps
GHR 40 reps
barbell calf raises 40 reps

[Effrum]

Yeah that's a lot of my problem as well. I dread leg day because I'm totally drained after squats and deadlifts then its like ****, I'm not even halfway through my workout!

In hindsight, it's very possible that my carb intake was just too low for Lower days, but I didn't get a lot of time to work on it. Trying to do a full Lower day is how I messed up my back doing RDL's (did FS and was struggling to finish my RDL reps, then tweaked my back on the way up). I think it really just comes down to figuring out the right balance between diet and work capacity, because I was doing a full leg day on the original P/P/L just fine - although granted the weights were lighter back then lol. Not that I think there's anything wrong with doing a Push/Pull vs an U/L - imo it's personal preference.

[nerynery]

How many chest movements are you doing?

If one then add reverse flyes, if two then add them both.

You are doing Chest-supported Rows, which aren't listed on this routine, but were on kelei's previous routines, which gives me the question: Which exercises have you been doing these days?

thanks

[nerynery]

Anyone split legs into push/pull? I'm thinking of trying it just because I hate leg day so freaking much... maybe splitting them up with some upper body would motivate me since I'll get the best of both worlds? I haven't tried it for years.

Any idea how that would work? Something like this?

Push
Bench Press
Side Lateral Raise
Tricep Pressdown
Front Squat
Leg Extension
Calf Raise

Pull
Romanian Deadlift
Leg Curls
Lat Pulldowns
Row
Rear Delt Raise
Bicep Curls

I don't think I left anything out..

I tried Push / Pull, but didn't enjoy it. I prefer U/L, even though I do RDL on Lower days, I feel like I need to give my elbows that rest.

[Jasonk282]

I tried Push / Pull, but didn't enjoy it. I prefer U/L, even though I do RDL on Lower days, I feel like I need to give my elbows that rest.

why would you NOT do RDL on lower day...it's mainly a hamstring lift.,

[69cam]

I tried Push / Pull, but didn't enjoy it. I prefer U/L, even though I do RDL on Lower days, I feel like I need to give my elbows that rest.

I find my elbows and shoulders dont bitch as much doing U/L too.

[CrayJay]

Can someone please share their experience with the recomping phases that Kelei advocates?

[imhungry4444]

Been running ICF 5x5 for the past couple of months but what I'm really looking for is hypertrophy and not pure strength per-say since the core lifts on ICF 5x5 are at a 5x5 rep-set range as opposed to a more hypertrophic 8-12 rep range. Was thinking of switching to something like this. What do you guys think?

[ThatOneLurker]

You are doing Chest-supported Rows, which aren't listed on this routine, but were on kelei's previous routines, which gives me the question: Which exercises have you been doing these days?

thanks

D1: flat barbell bench
incline DB bench
hammer strength chest press (though this exercise changes for me when I get bored to either weighted dips or some form of a flye)
tricep pressdowns
side raises

D2: Pull ups
Lat pulldowns
Chest supported rows
seated rows
concentration curls
Rear delt flyes or hammer strength rows

D3: high bar back squats
weighted hyperextensions
leg extensions
one legged leg curls
standing calf raises
seated calf raises


These are my personal preferences.

[Jasonk282]

Been running ICF 5x5 for the past couple of months but what I'm really looking for is hypertrophy and not pure strength per-say since the core lifts on ICF 5x5 are at a 5x5 rep-set range as opposed to a more hypertrophic 8-12 rep range. Was thinking of switching to something like this. What do you guys think?

volume matter...even if you do 30 reps if you get there with 3x10 or 6x5 you're still getting in the same overall volume. Rep ranges are not magical things.

[xxx_jfb_xxx]

I killed it on leg day for the first time in months. I'm doing upper/lower now and split the lower into two days kind of. One day with an extreme emphasis on quads and the other I'm going to do an extreme emphasis on hamstrings.

Anyone tried doing something similar?

I'm thinking of doing upper body the same. One day with an extreme emphasis on push and the other with an extreme emphasis on pull.

[Effrum]

I killed it on leg day for the first time in months. I'm doing upper/lower now and split the lower into two days kind of. One day with an extreme emphasis on quads and the other I'm going to do an extreme emphasis on hamstrings.

Anyone tried doing something similar?

I'm thinking of doing upper body the same. One day with an extreme emphasis on push and the other with an extreme emphasis on pull.

I've never tried anything like that, just because it sounds like you've got U1/L1, U2/L2. So there wouldn't be as much volume per exercise and your frequency would also suffer some. That being said, as long as your volume per muscle on a weekly basis (say 200 reps for chest, etc) evens out to the same as a standard U/L, then it's probably not worth splitting hairs over. I say try it and see how it goes.

[MortalEngine]

I killed it on leg day for the first time in months. I'm doing upper/lower now and split the lower into two days kind of. One day with an extreme emphasis on quads and the other I'm going to do an extreme emphasis on hamstrings.

Anyone tried doing something similar?

I'm thinking of doing upper body the same. One day with an extreme emphasis on push and the other with an extreme emphasis on pull.

I'm considering the same thing with legs. I've just moved from an U/L split to P/P/L because the U/L sessions were killing me. Enjoying this much more, but having completed my first D3 (leg day) the session was much longer than the D1 and D2, and I felt pretty burned out after the deadlifts.

Considering keeping the squats, deads, calves and weighted glute bridges (I've added these because they've worked wonders for my lower back pain) to D3, but adding leg curls to D1 and leg extensions to D2. I don't really want to do this, but I'm enjoying the shorter sessions that PPL offers (and being able to go to the gym 6 days a week), and leg day is a killer at almost twice the length of D1 and D2. Doing this would even out the length of the three sessions.

[DumbbellDude]

I'm completely new to the routine (and to the forum in general) but it looks awesome and the first 2 days felt *incredibly* intense. I appologize in advance if my question turns out to be redundant.
My intention is to replace my previous 5 day split with this one, but I was wondering about the actual volume used in this split compared to what I did in the 5 day routine.
A D1, for example, looks like this:

Bench press 4*12
Incline dumbbell press 4*12
seated military press 4*12
dumbell side raise 4*12
rope pressdown 4*10
skullcrusher single dumbell 4*8
cable crossovers 4*12 > dropset

Is the volume based on what you can handle, or is it better to start off with less volume and maybe add more gradually? I will admit I sorta tried to just put all the stuff from the 5 day split as much as I could in this one.
Perhaps the most import reason why I ask is because the D1 and D2 have been significantly more "draining" than a regular day in my previous split. I can imagine it will take some time to get used to, but could also see myself simply getting a little bit in over my head.