Bodybuilders Offseason!

**Guardian** · 03-01-2007, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by thatsdefyo

I totally agree with this. There are so many more serious issues the medical community have not brushed upon I doubt we will ever get a conclusive answer to the rare effects from extreme drug use. I am really interested in what causes "Palumboism" as its referred to. There were a couple other threads on other boards that really went in depth if anyone has them.

In any case, I can't help feeling bad for them. I know it was there choice but I can identify with becoming obsessed with taking your body to a new limit

Currently the major explanations which I tend to agree with is that excessive and prolonged use of hormones may cause dorment genes of our ancient ancestors to surface. I would also say insulin sensitivity along with the redistribution of bodyfat proporties of high cortisol also play a role.

**thatsdefyo** · 03-01-2007, 07:58 PM

[QUOTE=Guardian;24236941]Currently the major explanations which I tend to agree with is that excessive and prolonged use of hormones may cause dorment genes of our ancient ancestors to surface. I would also say insulin sensitivity along with the redistribution of bodyfat proporties of high cortisol also play a role.[/QUOTE

They definitely look like cavemen but I'm not really sure how that is possible. I am a BIO major but I have only taken a few BIO courses so I really have no clue. Crazy to think about though...

**The Abomination** · 03-01-2007, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by coldfusion71

When you dont know something, dont assert you do ,when you have no medical literature to back you up. All you have is your bias and speculative causes nothing concrete or scientific. you cite limited things and attribute it so what is convienent to your argument, no objectivity at all. You have no background or education in the medical field so dont act like you do.

Hey he can copy and paste with the best of them on anything about IGF, don't be so critical...LOL

**Guardian** · 03-01-2007, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by The Abomination

Hey he can copy and paste with the best of them on anything about IGF, don't be so critical...LOL

You guys should start learning

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=1065531

**The Abomination** · 03-01-2007, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by Guardian

You guys should start learning

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=1065531

Start learning what?? I've already seen this thread. You're not the only one who gets around the boards and can copy and paste. Wow, you've accumulated vast knowledge on **** nobody really cares about.

**LiFtHaTiRoN** · 03-01-2007, 09:52 PM

Originally Posted by LUKEDEICHER

Here are a couple of King Kamali. The third I know is photoshopped on Ronnie but I always get a kick out of it because he could probobaly get that big offseason.

the third one is not a photoshop he was really on that tv show. I think it was SNL. He really is that big in the off season.

**Guardian** · 03-01-2007, 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by The Abomination

Start learning what?? I've already seen this thread. You're not the only one who gets around the boards and can copy and paste. Wow, you've accumulated vast knowledge on **** nobody really cares about.

Anyone that is interested in bodybuilding should care, evidently you do not.

**LiFtHaTiRoN** · 03-01-2007, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by Guardian

Guess you have never heard of David Palumbo or Palumboism. Its not terribly complicated, if gh/aas/igf is abused for to long problems WILL occur.

But you know it all....

http://www.grecopt.com/images/Dave%20Palumbo.jpg
http://www.kulturistika.com/pictures...lumbo-2003.jpg

Kind of looks like what has occured with some other people we know?

But just keep telling yourself its a strange coincidence, that these guys came down with some strange bug that transformed them into the neanderthal look.

Palumboism

http://sicktracks.com/forums/showthr...threadid=51098

"It is not fully known what causes the disease, although it is speculated that a genetic predisposition combined with an over reliance on high and never ending doses of various anabolic drugs accompanied by a gradual 'shut down' or mutation of the patient's own endiginous endocrine system possibly awakening dormant cro-magnonesque genes are causative factors."

The polumboism thing seems real, and would make sense. I have never seen any other cases of this tho, post some pics, because a few lines of that made me think that it was just a parody of some over the top bodybuilders.

**coldfusion71** · 03-02-2007, 01:27 AM

Originally Posted by Guardian

Im sure coldushion (as he has stated in other threads) will claim bodybuilding drug use has no "medically proven" effect on organs.

It is a ridiculous jump in logic for you to suggest someone through steriod abuse, is inacting some dormat gene that thrives in all of us. 1- No medical evidence when no long term study exists on any of the compound ,especially things like igf and mgf which are research chemicals and have not been studied long term 2. You dont know the doses people are taking. 3 You dont know these people's medical history, it is foolish to me for someone to build a medical concept and opinion derived from 2 cases this is not some epidemic spread throughout bodybuilding .

**flaxman78** · 03-02-2007, 01:43 AM

Originally Posted by LUKEDEICHER

Levrone, Priest, Shawn.

its very good to see very muscular bodybuilder like shwan ray in offseason..looking cool.

**BB is 4 life :)** · 03-02-2007, 01:54 AM

Originally Posted by coldfusion71

It is a ridiculous jump in logic for you to suggest someone through steriod abuse, is inacting some dormat gene that thrives in all of us. 1- No medical evidence when no long term study exists on any of the compound ,especially things like igf and mgf which are research chemicals and have not been studied long term 2. You dont know the doses people are taking. 3 You dont know these people's medical history, it is foolish to me for someone to build a medical concept and opinion derived from 2 cases this is not some epidemic spread throughout bodybuilding .

I've read through this thread pretty quick, but one thing ive noticed, you keep telling guardian not to post this and that without solid medical evidence to back up everything he's saying and that hes being ignorant.

You dont have an medical or in any way scientific evidence to show that he ISNT correct in what hes saying, also, your being ignorant because your not willing to show any give in the matter, your acting as if you have solid evidence to show that it isnt in any way possible that the palumboism is being caused by the gratuitous abuse of all things anabolic....

Fact of the matter is, its known that kovacs tanks gear and everything else bodybuilders take just like palumbo to make up for having inferior genetics to other pro's, and the results are evident in the pictures of them....i think it would be best if you two just agree to disagree, otherwise you could argue this subject until you wear your fingers down to bloody stubs bashing the keys on your keyboards.

Get over it.

Theres no proof it does cause it, theres no proof it doesnt.

Trying to argue and win this 'arguement' is like trying to build a house on sand......neither of you have any foundation so your fighting a losing battle.

**coldfusion71** · 03-02-2007, 02:30 AM

Originally Posted by BB is 4 life :)

I've read through this thread pretty quick, but one thing ive noticed, you keep telling guardian not to post this and that without solid medical evidence to back up everything he's saying and that hes being ignorant.

You dont have an medical or in any way scientific evidence to show that he ISNT correct in what hes saying, also, your being ignorant because your not willing to show any give in the matter, your acting as if you have solid evidence to show that it isnt in any way possible that the palumboism is being caused by the gratuitous abuse of all things anabolic....

Fact of the matter is, its known that kovacs tanks gear and everything else bodybuilders take just like palumbo to make up for having inferior genetics to other pro's, and the results are evident in the pictures of them....i think it would be best if you two just agree to disagree, otherwise you could argue this subject until you wear your fingers down to bloody stubs bashing the keys on your keyboards.

Get over it.

Theres no proof it does cause it, theres no proof it doesnt.

Trying to argue and win this 'arguement' is like trying to build a house on sand......neither of you have any foundation so your fighting a losing battle.

If one posts a conclusion and is adament about thier conclusion, the burden of proof is on them. You can lob any ridiculous half baked theory, that does not mean it has any validity. he hasnt shown that his theory is backed by anything but rampant speculation with dubious sourcing. I never said anything about what is or isnt the cause, i am not a doctor. My point was simply that doctors dont diagnose disease without getting a full blood work and detailed analysis, why should someone who is not a doctor and has no relationship to the people he is diagnosing with an undiscovered disease have any credibility.

Also if you read what he is saying he is insinuating ronnie coleman is suffering what he calls "Palumboism" that is the point of his post.

**Clean** · 03-02-2007, 02:36 AM

Originally Posted by BB is 4 life :)

I've read through this thread pretty quick, but one thing ive noticed, you keep telling guardian not to post this and that without solid medical evidence to back up everything he's saying and that hes being ignorant.

You dont have an medical or in any way scientific evidence to show that he ISNT correct in what hes saying, also, your being ignorant because your not willing to show any give in the matter, your acting as if you have solid evidence to show that it isnt in any way possible that the palumboism is being caused by the gratuitous abuse of all things anabolic....

Fact of the matter is, its known that kovacs tanks gear and everything else bodybuilders take just like palumbo to make up for having inferior genetics to other pro's, and the results are evident in the pictures of them....i think it would be best if you two just agree to disagree, otherwise you could argue this subject until you wear your fingers down to bloody stubs bashing the keys on your keyboards.

Get over it.

Theres no proof it does cause it, theres no proof it doesnt.

Trying to argue and win this 'arguement' is like trying to build a house on sand......neither of you have any foundation so your fighting a losing battle.

I agree, though I like the article Guardian put up and it has some good info in it. Only the ignorant wouldn't read it to learn something.

Anyway, here is one of Dorian. I don't think he is in the off season here, but he might still be a couple weeks out.

**BB is 4 life :)** · 03-02-2007, 05:17 AM

Originally Posted by coldfusion71

If one posts a conclusion and is adament about thier conclusion, the burden of proof is on them. You can lob any ridiculous half baked theory, that does not mean it has any validity. he hasnt shown that his theory is backed by anything but rampant speculation with dubious sourcing. I never said anything about what is or isnt the cause, i am not a doctor. My point was simply that doctors dont diagnose disease without getting a full blood work and detailed analysis, why should someone who is not a doctor and has no relationship to the people he is diagnosing with an undiscovered disease have any credibility.

Also if you read what he is saying he is insinuating ronnie coleman is suffering what he calls "Palumboism" that is the point of his post.

You did talk about what is or isnt the cause when you completely dismissed guardians posts as if you knew better.....by saying he is wrong your implying you know the correct answer as knowing the correct answer is the only way you can say he is wrong and be correct in saying so.

Everything your saying is nothing more than conjecture which is what guardians OPINION is based upon.

Trying to make yourself sound smart and eloquent by using 'fancy' words doesnt work by the way, ive told many people this in the past, in my eyes it makes people look stupid as its a desperate attempt to be condescending and to use the condescension as a method of belittling and seeming superior to the person your conversing with. Mainly in hopes that everyone will think your smarter and take your side.

It doesnt work......well, not with people like me anyway.

Like i said, agree to disagree because this 'arguement' doesnt have a finite solution.

**Guardian** · 03-02-2007, 06:59 AM

Originally Posted by coldfusion71

If one posts a conclusion and is adament about thier conclusion, the burden of proof is on them. You can lob any ridiculous half baked theory, that does not mean it has any validity. he hasnt shown that his theory is backed by anything but rampant speculation with dubious sourcing. I never said anything about what is or isnt the cause, i am not a doctor. My point was simply that doctors dont diagnose disease without getting a full blood work and detailed analysis, why should someone who is not a doctor and has no relationship to the people he is diagnosing with an undiscovered disease have any credibility.

Also if you read what he is saying he is insinuating ronnie coleman is suffering what he calls "Palumboism" that is the point of his post.

Your right, and bodybuilders are natural, after all there is no scientific proof they juice either. Ive said several times, the medical profession doesnt care about bodybuilding, I dont need a article of a journal to tell me what is visibilly evident in bodybuilders who have been known to abuse drugs.

Keep living in your dream world where nothing is wrong until the doctors tell you so.

**coldfusion71** · 03-02-2007, 07:00 AM

Originally Posted by BB is 4 life :)

You did talk about what is or isnt the cause when you completely dismissed guardians posts as if you knew better.....by saying he is wrong your implying you know the correct answer as knowing the correct answer is the only way you can say he is wrong and be correct in saying so.

Everything your saying is nothing more than conjecture which is what guardians OPINION is based upon.

Trying to make yourself sound smart and eloquent by using 'fancy' words doesnt work by the way, ive told many people this in the past, in my eyes it makes people look stupid as its a desperate attempt to be condescending and to use the condescension as a method of belittling and seeming superior to the person your conversing with. Mainly in hopes that everyone will think your smarter and take your side.

It doesnt work......well, not with people like me anyway.

Like i said, agree to disagree because this 'arguement' doesnt have a finite solution.

Point me to where i listed what is or isnt the cause for what he is referring to. My point was you cannot diagnose a disease over the internet, the only reason he is doing this is to follow the same agenda that he has been on for a long time.

Well i type how i talk, i dont insert any words in my posts that i dont use in coversation at work and at home. So me trying to impress anyone on this board is ridiculously absurd, what would i have to gain in that scanerio doesnt make much sense. Just because you dont use the same writing style, sure as hell doesnt mean people are trying to impress you with thier articulation. You must have a high opinion about youself, to think someone would go to those lengths to impress you.

**coldfusion71** · 03-02-2007, 07:05 AM

Originally Posted by Guardian

Your right, and bodybuilders are natural, after all there is no scientific proof they juice either. Ive said several times, the medical profession doesnt care about bodybuilding, I dont need a article of a journal to tell me what is visibilly evident in bodybuilders who have been known to abuse drugs.

Keep living in your dream world where nothing is wrong until the doctors tell you so.

Who abuses that is my point, how do you know who is using excessive amounts of anything? What criteria are you using to form such a large jump in logic, to suggest someone is igniting some Cro-Magnon gene from within .

**Guardian** · 03-02-2007, 07:17 AM

Originally Posted by coldfusion71

Who abuses that is my point, how do you know who is using excessive amounts of anything? What criteria are you using to form such a large jump in logic, to suggest someone is igniting some Cro-Magnon gene from within .

Igf-1 has been medically documented (Im sure youll like that) to have a high amount of receptors in the intestines.

In the 90s we began seeing some abdominal bloat because hgh+igf converts to igf-1 in the liver. Well in the late 90s igf was engineered into igf r3 which is injectable and has a half life for 10-20 hours where igf formed in the body has a half life of 10-15 minutes. The heavy use of igf-1 will cause atrophy of the intestines, whatever igf touches that has receptors will grow. The more you use the more likely you are to have this side effect. There is countless forums and threads talking about this on the net.

If you feel my knowledge is inferior, feel free to pm Sikboy about it as he is a user, mod, and has researched it just as much if not more then me.

But you keep living in your dream world where the guts that just happened to start at the same time igf r3 came out is only because bodybuilders are eating alot.

**coldfusion71** · 03-02-2007, 07:28 AM

Originally Posted by Guardian

Igf-1 has been medically documented (Im sure youll like that) to have a high amount of receptors in the intestines.

In the 90s we began seeing some abdominal bloat because hgh+igf converts to igf-1 in the liver. Well in the late 90s igf was engineered into igf r3 which is injectable and has a half life for 10-20 hours where igf formed in the body has a half life of 10-15 minutes. The heavy use of igf-1 will cause atrophy of the intestines, whatever igf touches that has receptors will grow. The more you use the more likely you are to have this side effect. There is countless forums and threads talking about this on the net.

If you feel my knowledge is inferior, feel free to pm Sikboy about it as he is a user, mod, and has researched it just as much if not more then me.

But you keep living in your dream world where the guts that just happened to start at the same time igf r3 came out is only because bodybuilders are eating alot.

Okay so now your agument has descended into the gut, where have i ever said that igf didnt cause intestinal growth? From all i have read through many sources, it does in fact do that. it can also cause a multitude of other side effects, which make it unusable in my opinion.

Causing guts and deevolution are two toally different things. You cannot tell how much igf someone is taking ,from simply looking at stomach distention. Some people can take large doeses of drugs and have minimal side effects, while other can take a moderate dose and get every side-effect under the sun, that is not a good measuring stick.

**hardcore3186** · 03-02-2007, 08:03 AM

some of these guys look horrible in the off season...

and is it me... or just levrone look white as hell in the first pic??

i thought he was black but i may be mistaking?
(no racial-just curious)

**BB is 4 life :)** · 03-02-2007, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by coldfusion71

Point me to where i listed what is or isnt the cause for what he is referring to. My point was you cannot diagnose a disease over the internet, the only reason he is doing this is to follow the same agenda that he has been on for a long time.

I made it clear that you talked about ti by completely dismissing everything guardian has to say on the subject, as if you knew that it certainly wasnt causing it thus meaning you must have the correct answer. Selective ignorance wont change the multiple posts you've made that show that point.

I've also seen your uncompromising back-tracking you've done thus far, agreeing with some points of guardians posts but not everything in order to make it look like your not completely stubborn, ignorant and dont think your opinion is correct and the only way it could be. But not enough agreement to say that you completely agree with him and kind of stand by your original view point on the matter.

lol.

Well i type how i talk, i dont insert any words in my posts that i dont use in coversation at work and at home. So me trying to impress anyone on this board is ridiculously absurd, what would i have to gain in that scanerio doesnt make much sense. Just because you dont use the same writing style, sure as hell doesnt mean people are trying to impress you with thier articulation. You must have a high opinion about youself, to think someone would go to those lengths to impress you.

Awwww thats super.

**Morbid_Mind** · 03-02-2007, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by hardcore3186

some of these guys look horrible in the off season...

and is it me... or just levrone look white as hell in the first pic??

i thought he was black but i may be mistaking?
(no racial-just curious)

Levrone is mixed, you're probably not used to seeing him untanned and without Pro Tan, coupled with the poor lighting and camera flash.

**Contract Killer** · 03-02-2007, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by BB is 4 life :)

Fact of the matter is, its known that kovacs tanks gear and everything else bodybuilders take just to make up for having inferior genetics to other pro's

OUCH, I wouldn't go that far. The guy was 275 onstage at 21, even if I was geared up, I couldn't have pulled that off. Up until 1999, he was still the biggest strongest bodybuilder alive.

**Solidarity** · 03-02-2007, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by Contract Killer

OUCH, I wouldn't go that far. The guy was 275 onstage at 21, even if I was geared up, I couldn't have pulled that off. Up until 1999, he was still the biggest strongest bodybuilder alive.

Dave Palumbo ADMITS that he was on massive amounts of drugs to make up for his genetic shortcoming. And remember, we are comparing their genetics to other pro genetics, not your average joe bodybuilder.

Guardian: You are right on the money, this is more than coincidence.

**czechboy** · 03-02-2007, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by Solidarity

Dave Palumbo ADMITS that he was on massive amounts of drugs to make up for his genetic shortcoming. And remember, we are comparing their genetics to other pro genetics, not your average joe bodybuilder.

Guardian: You are right on the money, this is more than coincidence.

I think that Palumbo is still on drugs

**Contract Killer** · 03-02-2007, 07:18 PM

I left Palumbo out of my quote cuz I was referring to Greg.

**Gaffigan** · 03-02-2007, 07:53 PM

This thread is great ... keep it up!

**JIGSAW** · 03-03-2007, 06:03 AM

Originally Posted by LUKEDEICHER

Here are a couple of King Kamali. The third I know is photoshopped on Ronnie but I always get a kick out of it because he could probobaly get that big offseason.

The Third one is NOT photoshopped............that was from Leno....................

**mudbug45** · 03-03-2007, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by pnstps

The Third one is NOT photoshopped............that was from Leno....................

It is from Leno, but check this video out. This is him at that same location and its very obvious that the pic was photoshopped, but He's still massive!

And thanks to everyone for the feedback, very interesting posts so far, keep it up!

Originally Posted by pu12en12g

Check it out:

http://www.thebiguniverse.com/coleman/ColemanonLeno.wmv

**LEECH2004** · 03-09-2007, 10:06 AM

One more Ronnie

Thread: Bodybuilders Offseason!

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