WrathfulOne + Fierce 5 = Overwhelming POWA!!

[Wicked12]

I learned all the lifts from the Starting Strength book, and in there Rippetoe says low bar uses more muscles and allows you to lift more. Basically he says it's the best squat. I saw on Omar's YouTube channel he recently switched to low bar and increased his squat. Never actually tried high bar myself. Maybe I would actually prefer it.

Just give it a try and then decide which you prefer

[WrathfulOne]

A helpful tip for raising the bench...

Most gym have those "step up" things or blocks or whatever. Take the decline bench and put the "head end" on top of those blocks. It's a great way of getting an elevated parallel bench. That's what I do for reverse flyes.

I wouldn't recommend using it for OHP, i'd treat OHP as one of the ones where you're learning to brace your core properly.

Might have to see if I can do that in the squat rack since then I can use the safety bar for benching. At the moment the bench is too low in the rack and the bar hits the safety bar in its lowest position.

Just give it a try and then decide which you prefer

Been researching them now, worried I will have to drop weight for high-bar, but won't know until I've tried.

[WrathfulOne]

TUESDAY 24 FEBRUARY
Deadlift: 100kg 3x5
OHP: 40kg 3x5 (this is a reset)

Here is my last set of deadlifts:


Didn't feel too bad, much better than the last time I did 100kg, which was last year. Didn't really feel if the belt was helping, but I suppose it's better for safety.

OHP was interesting. The first set was harder than I thought it would be, but then the 2nd and 3rd were really easy. I don't know if this is due to the creatine, or because I concentrated on also tensing my legs on the 2nd and 3rd sets. I realised that because they have a mirror in front of the squat rack, I was looking at that and tensing only my upper body, since that's what I am looking at. By also tensing my legs, the energy is not dissipated as much, so more goes into the bar. I tried it with a belt for the first time and it didn't seem to help so I removed it.

Accesories:
Leg curls: 50kgx8, 45kgx8x2
The first set was too tough, so dropped down for the next 2.
Chinups: 8,8,7
Tricep pushdowns: 34kg
Recently discovered the machine has 2 pullies, so even though I select 68kg, I am actually pushing down 34kg.
Ab wheel: 2x20

NEXT WORKOUT (THURSDAY 26 FEBRUARY)
Squats: 85kg 3x5
Bench Press: 67.5kg 3x5
Seated Rows: ? 3x5 (Switching to these since my Pendlay Row form is too bad)

[Wicked12]

Goob job on the deadlifts man! Just one thing I notice: Not sure if it's just the camera angle, but it looks like you're using your shoulders. You'll have to tell me if that's the case or not.

They look hella easy man, going up really fast.

[WrathfulOne]

Goob job on the deadlifts man! Just one thing I notice: Not sure if it's just the camera angle, but it looks like you're using your shoulders. You'll have to tell me if that's the case or not.

They look hella easy man, going up really fast.

Thanks man, I think you may be right, I could be dropping my shoulders. I think they are supposed to be pulled back. I will read over the Deadlift chapter in SS again, it has all the cues in there.

I realised from my vids I always do a pufferfish face, probably should avoid that too

[Flagaba]

Videos look pretty good indeed, it does look like something changes in your last Squat reps but I'll agree with the others, it's really not that bad. As for low versus high bar, I prefer and am used to the latter but it's a matter of tastes.

I agree with VanillaBearB on the Overhead Press, it personally took me a while but with time and consistency you'll be able to brace your core properly on that. I personally don't see myself using a belt on that lift, it's all about contracting the glutes, bracing the core and remaining tight throughout the sets.

Also, laughed out loud at the putterfish face comment, this is definitely becoming your new nickname.

Light weight baby!

[WrathfulOne]

Videos look pretty good indeed, it does look like something changes in your last Squat reps but I'll agree with the others, it's really not that bad. As for low versus high bar, I prefer and am used to the latter but it's a matter of tastes.

I agree with VanillaBearB on the Overhead Press, it personally took me a while but with time and consistency you'll be able to brace your core properly on that. I personally don't see myself using a belt on that lift, it's all about contracting the glutes, bracing the core and remaining tight throughout the sets.

Also, laughed out loud at the putterfish face comment, this is definitely becoming your new nickname.

Light weight baby!

lol, yeah I think that when I puff my cheeks it's like I know my lungs are full so I'm ready to go. I actually need to practice filling my belly more since I think letting the air into my cheeks is actually reducing the volume in my lungs. I noticed the same thing about bracing on OHP when I did bench press the other day - the first set was quite tough, but then I braced more on the 2nd and 3rd and they felt easy. I also used the bounce on that and it felt sweet, a big drop in effort.

I saw you are squatting 235lbs, respect! That is no joke man.

[Jagoodin7]

This may have been answered and I missed it, but i started the F5 program, i dont see a OHP on it, was this an alteration you made?

[WrathfulOne]

This may have been answered and I missed it, but i started the F5 program, i dont see a OHP on it, was this an alteration you made?

It's under Acceptable Substitutions:

Reverse Flies-Face pulls (face pulls will follow 5lb per week progression)
Tricep pressdowns-overhead extensions, skull crushers…etc. (basically any tricep isolation exercise)
Lat Pulldowns-Any form of pull/chin up. You’ll need a dip belt to add weight. (You need a pull from above your head)
Incline Bench-Overhead Press
Pendlay Rows-Any horizontal pull. Your arms need to be directly out in front of you for it to be considered a horizontal pull. BORs DO NOT COUNT!
Bench-Decline bench, dips (leaning forward) You’ll need a dip belt to add weight
RDL/Front Squat-You have to swap both for a Deadlift and a leg curl. This isn’t an either or kind of substitution.
Front Squat-Paused back squats

I prefer it to incline bench since it works your core more and I'm already doing bench press, so don't want another chest exercise.

[Flagaba]

lol, yeah I think that when I puff my cheeks it's like I know my lungs are full so I'm ready to go. I actually need to practice filling my belly more since I think letting the air into my cheeks is actually reducing the volume in my lungs. I noticed the same thing about bracing on OHP when I did bench press the other day - the first set was quite tough, but then I braced more on the 2nd and 3rd and they felt easy. I also used the bounce on that and it felt sweet, a big drop in effort.

I saw you are squatting 235lbs, respect! That is no joke man.

I've been told a few times that if you're aware of the mistakes you make you'll end up correcting them, being aware is the first step to improving your form. I think you're on a good way to lifting properly and more heavy weights.

Thank you for the kind words!

[WrathfulOne]

THURSDAY 26 FEBRUARY
Squats: 85kg 3x5
Bench Press: 67.5kg 3x5
Seated Rows: 27kg 2x8, 32kg 3x8

For squats I took Wicked's advice and just concentrated on getting the weight up rather than obsessing over form. All I did was concentrate on keeping tight, then I just did the squat automatically. Didn't think about depth, I just relied on feeling when I should rebound and it seemed to work. I will try film myself at 90kg squats to see if this new method is technically OK.

Bench press was OK, but I was drifting around with the bar a bit. I couldn't find the groove like I did last time, so it wasn't as easy. I think the bar was not in line with my forearm, so my wrists were taking some load. I tried to see what was wrong, but couldn't quite tell.

I did seated rows on a machine for the first time instead of Pendlay rows. Started low at 27kg, but felt too easy so I did the last set at 32kg. Coincidentally I saw a male PT training a female PT how to do Pendlay Rows in the squat rack. He had her picking the bar up off the support beams so it was higher off the ground. The weird thing was she had no idea what she was doing even though she's a PT. She was turning them into BORs and even those were terrible. She didn't take the slack out or take a breath, she was just letting her arms go slack and then swinging the bar up haphazardly. You would never guess she had any sort of PT certification, she was like someone who just walked in off of the street.

Accessories:
Reverse Flies: 2kg
Lateral Raises: 6kg
Curls: 25kg

Increased weight on LRs and Curls since I wasn't pushing myself hard enough on those.

NEXT WORKOUT (SUNDAY 1 MARCH)
Deadlift: 105kg 3x5
OHP: 42.5kg 3x5

[Jagoodin7]

It's under Acceptable Substitutions:


I prefer it to incline bench since it works your core more and I'm already doing bench press, so don't want another chest exercise.

Gotcha, I shouldve have read up a bit more, my bad.

[WrathfulOne]

Gotcha, I shouldve have read up a bit more, my bad.

No worries, it's a lot to read through, so it's easy to miss stuff.

[Wicked12]

Good job on squats and bench man, getting heavy!

I feel like every idiot calls himself a "Personal Trainer" these days....

[WrathfulOne]

Good job on squats and bench man, getting heavy!

I feel like every idiot calls himself a "Personal Trainer" these days....

Cheers! Can't wait to finally do 100kg 3x5 squats. Not long now I hope.




































EDIT: You've made some really good progress man. Keep working hard and eating. Those 2 plates squats will be here before you know it. Also, PTs only need a 2 day class to be certified...how much can you really learn in 2 days? lol (Just because I don't post in here doesn't mean I never read yall's logs.)-davisj3537

[WrathfulOne]

Ah cool, got a mod edit from the man himself!

Find myself flip-flopping a bit on diet. I know I should probably be bulking to hit my targets, but I have some belly fat I want to get rid of and to at least get some sort of muscle definition (if there is actually any muscle under there...). I know I should choose a goal and stick with it, but it's a tough one when my wife is not happy with my current "beefy" look. I will post a pics later from now and a few months ago to maybe get an objective opinion from you guys on my BF% (and of course some "lol do you even lift bro?" comments).

Thought I'd give another shout out to my current favourite Youtuber, Alan Thrall. Even after reading Starting Strength multiple times, and doing Oly lifts for a year, I still find awesome tips in his videos which fix specific problems I'm having. For example, during my last bench press session, my arms started wobbling around the place and it was not a smooth movement at all, then I saw in this vid that I should just grip the bar as hard as possible to activate my triceps and fix this exact problem:


I will also try using my lats more like he recommends.

[WrathfulOne]

SUNDAY 1 MARCH
Deadlift: 105kg 3x5
OHP: 42.5kg 3x5

Deadlifts are getting tough now and grip is becoming more of an issue. I really have to grip the bar on the last 2 reps. Annoyingly I was using the flat-sided plates which are kind of 10-sided or something and every rep when I put the bar down it would land on a corner and one of the sides would roll forward, ruining my setup. Will only use round plates from now on. I was also worried at first that I had the women's bar, since it looked really shiny and different to my normal one, but after checking the diameter and weight I think it was a normal bar. Keeping my feet closer together on deadlifts is helping with leg drive. Was using too much back previously I think.

I will probably have to reset at 110kg I think. Not bad going I guess, I went from 50kg to 105kg so far without a reset, so it's probably due. I started lower than my squat as recommended by Davis (Fierce 5 creator), but now my deadlift is ahead of my squat since I reset that.

OHP was a bit tougher than last time, even though I was trying to stay tense through my legs. Don't know if it's because I worked out in the evening rather than the morning like usual, but couldn't get the boost of power I was getting last time. I filmed my second set of OHP, so here it is:


Might have some excessive lower back arching going on, but I tried to fix that in my 3rd set. It seems to be happening since I am trying to shrug my shoulders at lockout so they don't get impinged (something I read in SS).

Accessories:
Plank: 2x1min
Chinups: 8,8,7
Tricep Pushdowns: 10x34kg, 10x36kg

Chins are not really improving, so might actually switch to lat pulldowns. I also read in the injury section that you shouldn't go to full depth on chins since this is bad for your shoulders, so I was trying to stop near the bottom, whereas I usually go all the way for full ROM. Will do tricep pushdowns at 36kg for both sets next week since 34kg is too easy now.

My next workout will be with the bench and squat weights which forced me to reset previously, so this will be the test whether I have grown strong enough to break through the plateau.

NEXT WORKOUT (TUESDAY MARCH 3)
Squats: 90kg 3x5
Bench Press: 70kg 3x5
Seated Rows: 32kg 3x8

[Flagaba]

OHP looked pretty good on video my friend, it seemed way easier than what you describe but I understand, it's not an easy lift. Regarding the back arch, I'm not going to say it was exaggerated but are you contracting your glutes throughout each rep? I know it really helped me when I had a hard time with my back and when my reps would make me shake a lot.

Reps for life for doing planks! Also, any sort of Pullup is my worst nightmare...they aren't easy and are very weight dependant.

[WrathfulOne]

OHP looked pretty good on video my friend, it seemed way easier than what you describe but I understand, it's not an easy lift. Regarding the back arch, I'm not going to say it was exaggerated but are you contracting your glutes throughout each rep? I know it really helped me when I had a hard time with my back and when my reps would make me shake a lot.

Reps for life for doing planks! Also, any sort of Pullup is my worst nightmare...they aren't easy and are very weight dependant.

Cheers mate, yeah the pressing was not terrible, just not as easy as last time. Felt like Superman at 40kg, and this was more like hard work . I was trying to keep my legs and butt tight as well, it definitely helps to make a stable platform to push up from.

I did planks for a change since I found that my arms were really sore after doing DL, OHP and chins, especially my elbows, so I don't like doing ab-rolling.

Chinups are weird, I have been doing them for a while now and it's always 8,8,8 or 8,8,7. Don't feel like I am progressing on them at all. Like you say, they are bodyweight dependent, so I can't tell if I am actually getting stronger with them. Maybe if I switch to lat pulldowns on the machine I will be able to move up in the weights.

Only thing is then I now will be dropping 2 compound movements for machine exercises (first I dropped Pendlay rows for seated rows, and now I'll be dropping chinups). Next I will be squats in the Smith machine...

[WrathfulOne]

TUESDAY MARCH 3
Squats: 90kg 3x5 PR
Bench Press: 70kg 3x5 PR
Seated Rows: 32kg 3x8

Was really nervous about squats today since I failed this weight previously which resulted in a reset. I filmed the 2nd and 3rd sets, so I will upload those tonight. On the first set I actually almost tipped the bar forward to the left as I came up which was pretty scary. Never done that before. Managed to hit proper depth on the reps at least, except the very last one of the last set - on the 4th rep I got a bit stuck coming up, so that knocked my confidence, so I barely hit parallel on the last rep.

Bench Press was pretty easy. I actually got worried again that I was using the women's bar. I kept gripping it then going and gripping other bars to make sure it was the same. I think it was a normal bar, it just looks new. I even double checked with some other guys it was a normal bar and they weren't even aware we had a women's bar at the gym (seems they only use machines). I did the butt-raise Davis recommended and I think it's a much better lift off. I also moved way up on the bench and stayed tight and gripped the bar as hard as I could. Pretty happy it wasn't tough since I failed 3x5 previously at 70kg, so now I've gotten stronger.

The seated rows are still easy since I started them at a low weight.

I've been pretty inconsistent with my diet, not really bulking or cutting. Some days I think I should cut, so I eat fewer calories, but then on my lifting days I realise how much I need to eat to get stronger, so I try hit excess calories on those days. It's like a bodybuilding rule - when you look in the mirror you want to cut and when you lift in the gym you want to bulk.

Accessories:
Reverse Flies: 4kg
Lateral Raises: 6kg
Curls: 25kg

I upped flies to 4kg since I am tired of staying at 2kg, but I couldn't do them slowly and hold them at the top, I just did them as quick I as I could. Might have to drop back to 2kg. Have been considering swapping them for face pulls, since I enjoyed those when I used to do them.

NEXT WORKOUT (THURSDAY 5 MARCH)
Deadlift: 105kg 3x5
OHP: 42.5kg 3x5

[WrathfulOne]

OK here are the squat vids. Apologies for the long setup for each, was just trying to get everything tight. You can see some shuffling around between reps as I try to get my foot placement right. Didn't feel like I was getting enough drive up.

[WrathfulOne]

THURSDAY 5 MARCH 2015
Deadlifts: 105kg 3x5
OHP: 42.5kg 3x5

Deadlifts were really tough on the grip - on the last set I really had to hold on as the bar was starting to escape. I seriously doubt I will manage 110kg next time.

OHP was actually pretty tough too, even though I've already done 45kg 3x5. I think it was since I wasn't engaging triceps enough. On the last set I tried to bend the bar upwards and it was easier.

Accessories:
Leg Curls: 47kg 1x8, 46kg 2x8
Lat Pulldowns: 45kg 3x8
Tricep Pushdowns: 38kg 1x10, 43kg 1x10

Replaced chinups with Lat Pulldowns since I wasn't progressing on them and fancied a change. 45kg was easy. Finally got up to a decent weight on tricep pushdowns, they've not required much effort until now.

I will do some planks later, didn't have time this morning since I had to catch my train to work.

NEXT WORKOUT (SUNDAY 8 MARCH)
Squats: 95kg
Bench Press: 72.5kg
Seated Rows: 35kg (or whatever I can increment the machine at)

[Wicked12]

You might surprise yourself, grip strength is a very inconsitent factor from what I've experienced. It can be a major problem one day and then not be an issue at all the next work out. What grip are you using?

[WrathfulOne]

You might surprise yourself, grip strength is a very inconsitent factor from what I've experienced. It can be a major problem one day and then not be an issue at all the next work out. What grip are you using?

Overhand grip for as long as I can. Trying to avoid alternate grip.

[JBloom0]

OK here are the squat vids. Apologies for the long setup for each, was just trying to get everything tight. You can see some shuffling around between reps as I try to get my foot placement right. Didn't feel like I was getting enough drive up.

Hey man. Had a quick look. I'm no expert, but from what I've learned (read on the internet for 3 years) your squat form looks off to me.

If you watch your set 2 video there are a couple noticable things that happen:

- You 'drop' into the squat and get bounce at the bottom. To my knowledge a proper squat is slow on the way down and as fast as possible up. Bouncing to get lift upward is bad form.
- Go to 0:55 in the video too, when you reach full height you are at quite a forward lean, this is because at 0:52-0:53ish you go deep in the squat and coming up from it, due to some reason (too heavy most likely or otherwise), you have difficulty lifting the weight so your back leans forward and you are essentially then lifting it via your lower back rather than through your legs at your centre of gravity. Your centre of gravity should be from the point at which the bar is straight to the floor, imagine yourself like a spring and you need to coil up as you go down in perfect centre with that bar and spring straight up out of it.

You don't appear to have much problem with pelvic tilt, which is a common issue with inflexible people like me getting deep into the squat and the butt tucks underneath/forward to handle the weight which isnt natural as your butt should be pointing backwards away at all times particularly at the bottom.

I don't know if oly/weight shoes will help you with these issues I've noticed.. But I need the plates under heels and I know this because when I do squats I go off balance if I dont. Do you ever feel off balance? Then maybe you will need them (or just do plates under heels).
+ then work on ankle and hip mobility as likely factors to this.

[WrathfulOne]

Hey man, cheers for the feedback. Actually, using the bounce at the bottom is the method described by Rippetoe in Starting Strength. Here is a quote from that book:
"If the bounce is used correctly, it will be immediately followed by a hard drive up of the hips. It is important that the bounce is not followed by a pause and then a drive up. The bounce must be incorporated into the drive – it must be anticipated as the first part of the drive. Think about the “up” drive all the way down during the descent. Don’t think about going down while you’re going down – think about coming up the whole time. Doing this will reduce the tendency to separate the drive from the bounce, because the drive is being anticipated even before the bounce occurs. The timing of your descent and rebound is critical to the performance of good squats.

Rippetoe, Mark (2013-11-07). Starting Strength (Kindle Locations 1332-1337). The Aasgaard Company. Kindle Edition. "

If you don't use the bounce, you are effectively doing paused squats, which use less posterior chain and more quads as far as I understand. I do agree that I am concerned about the speed of my descent. It seems to be too fast, but I find that whenever I slow down I fail to achieve any bounce and I have a struggle getting out of "the hole". Davis didn't mention the speed being too fast, so I've just been going with my gut feeling while doing them.

You are right about the forward lean, I asked about this in a previous vid I posted and Davis said it was to be expected when the weight is heavy. Basically the movement turns into Good Morning since I have allowed the bar to travel too far forward because my hips have risen before my back has risen. Apparently the way to prevent this is to think about driving your shoulders back into the bar at the bottom of the squat so you don't fall forward.

You should get some shoes man, the plates-under-heels thing isn't too safe. I think they should be good for me too since they have a solid platform to push off of. Currently I just wear some flat soled trainers.

Do you have any vids of your squats? Would be interested to see your technique. I assume they will be paused?

[Wicked12]

Don't see an issue with speed of the descent or bouncing out of the whole. How fast you go down is preference really.

[JBloom0]

Your squat is to primarily work your quads, so use them.

Think about it like this, when you drop that fast you are releasing a lot more tension built up in your core to stabilise your back and stay straight.
For whatever reason you are leaning forward and are going to injure your back if you continue doing it bad form, drop weights man and don't risk it. 3 years on I'm still suffering.
Likely right about hips rising too quick, again, a likely cause from using the bounce.. Your hips bounce easily but when your body realises that this heavy weight is on its top half you bend over to lift it, which isn't squatting.

I'll consider oly shoes when my weights get to a certain uncomfortable point, right now plates under heels are ok cause I'm barely lifting anything.

I'm on total reset from bar so a squat vid wouldn't show much useful, but it's helping me to look in mirrors and make it perfect for when weight gets heavy. I don't pause at all, I keep as stable as possible in my core and drop at a slower rate and as soon as I reach the bottom point I drive up. Quads work a lot on the way down for sure but they are supposed to be imo.

When I get heavy weights again it is likely that I won't be able to be as stable and slow on the descent and will involve some bounce, but I feel much safer generally in being as tight and stable as possible all the way through the movement.

I'm very pro safety though since I ****ed my back up. Just be careful out there bro!!

[WrathfulOne]

Your squat is to primarily work your quads, so use them.

Think about it like this, when you drop that fast you are releasing a lot more tension built up in your core to stabilise your back and stay straight.
For whatever reason you are leaning forward and are going to injure your back if you continue doing it bad form, drop weights man and don't risk it. 3 years on I'm still suffering.
Likely right about hips rising too quick, again, a likely cause from using the bounce.. Your hips bounce easily but when your body realises that this heavy weight is on its top half you bend over to lift it, which isn't squatting.

I'll consider oly shoes when my weights get to a certain uncomfortable point, right now plates under heels are ok cause I'm barely lifting anything.

I'm on total reset from bar so a squat vid wouldn't show much useful, but it's helping me to look in mirrors and make it perfect for when weight gets heavy. I don't pause at all, I keep as stable as possible in my core and drop at a slower rate and as soon as I reach the bottom point I drive up. Quads work a lot on the way down for sure but they are supposed to be imo.

When I get heavy weights again it is likely that I won't be able to be as stable and slow on the descent and will involve some bounce, but I feel much safer generally in being as tight and stable as possible all the way through the movement.

I'm very pro safety though since I ****ed my back up. Just be careful out there bro!!

I hear you bro, I have been keeping this in mind. There is a section in Starting Strength about not dive-bombing since by dropping into the squat you are relaxing your muscles and this is how most injuries happen. You have to keep everything tight. I would copy the passage here, but I'm on a Mac and the Mac Kindle application doesn't allow copying, but the Windows one does. Bollocks!

BTW, how did you injure your back, if you don't mind me asking?

[JBloom0]

I hear you bro, I have been keeping this in mind. There is a section in Starting Strength about not dive-bombing since by dropping into the squat you are relaxing your muscles and this is how most injuries happen. You have to keep everything tight. I would copy the passage here, but I'm on a Mac and the Mac Kindle application doesn't allow copying, but the Windows one does. Bollocks!

BTW, how did you injure your back, if you don't mind me asking?

Hard to be specific really, but most likely a combination of no stretching (I don't really remember doing any at the time), and doing Stronglifts increasing weight every workout and doing squats and deadlifts with likely bad form due to inflexibility and poor mobility making my body do weird things to compensate.. and then pop, extreme sciatica couldn't walk properly for a month, likely a herniation causing pressure on my sciatic nerve and my lower right side back muscles have been near dead ever since.

I'm going back to docs soon to force them to give me a scan so I have some kind of idea of whats going on. In the past they have just referred me to physio's who do nothing, need a specialist of sorts.