Does Dieting Make People Fat?

[WillBrink]

A good review paper examining the topic I have been discussing for years, that repeated cycles of dieting can actually make you fatter over the long term:

Review

How dieting makes the lean fatter: from a perspective
of body composition autoregulation through
adipostats and proteinstats awaiting discovery

A. G. Dulloo, J. Jacquet, J.-P. Montani and Y. Schutz
Department of Medicine, Division of
Physiology, University of Fribourg, Switzerland

Summary

Whether dieting makes people fatter has been a subject of considerable controversy
over the past 30 years. More recent analysis of several prospective studies suggest,
however, that it is dieting to lose weight in people who are in the healthy normal
range of body weight, rather than in those who are overweight or obese, that most
strongly and consistently predict future weight gain. This paper analyses the ongoing
arguments in the debate about whether repeated dieting to lose weight in normal-
weight people represents unsuccessful attempts to counter genetic and familial
predispositions to obesity, a psychosocial reaction to the fear of fatness or that
dieting per seconfers risks for fatness and hence a contributing factor to the obesity
epidemic.

In addressing the biological plausibility that dieting predisposes the lean
(rather than the overweight or obese) to regaining more body fat than what had been
lost (i.e. fat overshooting), it integrates the results derived from the re-analysis of
body composition data on fat mass and fat-free mass (FFM) losses and recoveries
from human studies of experimental energy restriction and refeeding. These suggest
that feedback signals from the depletion of both fat mass (i.e. adipostats) and FFM
(i.e. proteinstats) contribute to weight regain through the modulation of energy
intake and adaptive thermogenesis, and that a faster rate of fat recovery relative to
FFM recovery (i.e. preferential catch-up fat) is a central outcome of body compo-
sition autoregulation in lean individuals.

Such a temporal desynchronization in the restoration of the body’s fat vs. FFM results in a state of hyper****ia that persists beyond complete recovery of fat mass and interestingly until FFM is fully recovered.
However, as this completion of FFM recovery is also accompanied by fat deposition,
excess fat accumulates. In other words, fat overshooting is a prerequisite to allow
complete recovery of FFM. This confers biological plausibility for post-dieting fat
overshooting – which through repeated dieting and weight cycling would increase
the risks for trajectories from leanness to fatness. Given the increasing prevalence of
dieting in normal-weight female and male among young adults, adolescents and even
children who perceive themselves as too fat (due to media, family and societal
pressures), together with the high prevalence of dieting for optimizing performance
among athletes in weight-sensitive sports, the notion that dieting and weight cycling
may be predisposing a substantial proportion of the population to weight gain and
obesity deserves greater scientific scrutiny.

Full Paper:

//dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/76384972/Dieting%20Makes%20the%20Lean%20Fatter%20Dulloo%20e t%20al.pdf

[servonlewis]

so eating less makes us fat

[WillBrink]

so eating less makes us fat

Over repeated cycles of doing so, yes, that can be the result. I have seen it many times.

[dmacdonal9]

These suggest
that feedback signals from the depletion of both fat mass (i.e. adipostats) and FFM
(i.e. proteinstats) contribute to weight regain through the modulation of energy
intake and adaptive thermogenesis, and that a faster rate of fat recovery relative to
FFM recovery (i.e. preferential catch-up fat) is a central outcome of body compo-
sition autoregulation in lean individuals.

I think you have to consider the applicability of this to folks that are resistance training during periods of weight loss (and during periods of weight maintenance or gain). The average person loses FFM during weight loss because they are not lifting. Then during periods of weight regain they are also not lifting, so FFM recovery is minimal. This constant state of fat gain and LBM loss has serious metabolic consequences.

In other words, fat overshooting is a prerequisite to allow
complete recovery of FFM.

Well, perhaps in the absence of resistance training that may be true. I wonder how true it is if you're lifting though. I would imagine the dramatic improvements in insulin sensitivity from muscle gains is going to offset or even eliminate this.

[WillBrink]

I think you have to consider the applicability of this to folks that are resistance training during periods of weight loss (and during periods of weight maintenance or gain). The average person loses FFM during weight loss because they are not lifting. Then during periods of weight regain they are also not lifting, so FFM recovery is minimal. This constant state of fat gain and LBM loss has serious metabolic consequences.

Resistance training is very helpful in retaining LBM to be sure, and a must for anyone interested in long term changes in body comp. However, one will still lose LBM with resistance training depending on the diet and the resistance training followed. If the cals and P are too low for too long, and or the resistance training excessive in volume and or intensity, you'll still get loss of LBM. I have seen that happen with pre contest physique athletes who were under eating and over training.

Well, perhaps in the absence of resistance training that may be true. I wonder how true it is if you're lifting though. I would imagine the dramatic improvements in insulin sensitivity from muscle gains is going to offset or even eliminate this.

Resistance training is a must to be sure and a no brainer to people looking to optimize fat loss while retaining LBM.

[Znik]

So in short, people don't want to eat properly (protein deficiency thus lbm loss), don't want to exercise, track calories, or watch their weight after weight loss is achieved.

Dieting also makes you lose weight. Some go back to old habits and gain, others do not, some maintain at least some degree of weight loss (a high number goes in this catagory).

A 10-year observational study of self-reported weight loss and behavior change in 2886 participants (78% female; mean age 48 years) in the NWCR who at entry had lost at least 30 lbs (13.6 kg) and kept it off for at least one year. Data were collected in 1993–2010; analysis was conducted in 2012.

Mean weight loss was 31.3 kg (95% CI=30.8, 31.9) at baseline, 23.8 kg (95% CI=23.2, 24.4) at 5 years and 23.1±0.4 kg (95% CI=22.3, 23.9) at 10 years. More than 87% of participants were estimated to be still maintaining at least a 10% weight loss at Years 5 and 10. Larger initial weight losses and longer duration of maintenance were associated with better long-term outcomes. Decreases in leisure-time physical activity, dietary restraint, and frequency of self-weighing and increases in percentage of energy intake from fat and disinhibition were associated with greater weight regain.

http://www.ajpmonline.org/article/S0...528-X/abstract


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10643690
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2...?dopt=Abstract

[mavajo]

What a stupid topic. What's the alternative then? Stay fat?

Dieting doesn't make you fat. Eating like a jackwagon makes you fat. This is like "Diet Soda makes you fat!" No it doesn't. If you're a moron that thinks he can eat a Large French Fry because he had a diet soda with his burger, THAT will make you fat. But the diet soda didn't make you fat - being a moron did. I absolutely despise topics like this. The thread title is clearly misleading in order to grab attention, but idiotic ham and eggers will fail to understand the context and use it as an excuse not to get in shape, since dieting would just make them fat!

[Serpentarius]

What a stupid topic. What's the alternative then? Stay fat?

Surprisingly yes, for most people, their life has come to be all they know and changing habits is met with resistance (help i cant stop binging threads). I dont think that being lean is sustainable for most people when i think about it, its not mentally healthy to count calories forever i feel and restricting calories can also constitute an eating disorder regardless of the spectrum of its usage.

[MuzzieChik786]

I dont think that being lean is sustainable for most people when i think about it, its not mentally healthy to count calories forever i feel and restricting calories can also constitute an eating disorder regardless of the spectrum of its usage.

Stop giving them ammunition to stop before they start.

Maintenance does not require counting calories. I've done it, other people who've been obese in a past life are doing it successfully as we speak.

[EjnarKolinkar]

I think you have to consider the applicability of this to folks that are resistance training during periods of weight loss (and during periods of weight maintenance or gain). The average person loses FFM during weight loss because they are not lifting. Then during periods of weight regain they are also not lifting, so FFM recovery is minimal. This constant state of fat gain and LBM loss has serious metabolic consequences.




Well, perhaps in the absence of resistance training that may be true. I wonder how true it is if you're lifting though. I would imagine the dramatic improvements in insulin sensitivity from muscle gains is going to offset or even eliminate this.

IDK I think its true with resistance training. Dieting preps the body to gain fat like no other. We all know that already. I think for the average joe or jane on the street its pretty common to have a robust rebound, I mean how many folks do you know irl that reverse diet?

I think wider distribution of post diet care of the human would be the solution. But even then you see people rebound gain hard post cut around this site all the time that know the "rules"

A flatter trajectory seems valid although accomplishing is just hard.

Remembering that post obesity studies usually use pounds not body comp in popolation data is also interdasting when dealing with the non lifting world and cyclical dieting.

Loled at all the rage. This data is being presented without taking into account that you personally lift weights. Lots of people dont. Population =/= population of bodybuilding.com

[Serpentarius]

Loled at all the rage. This data is being presented without taking into account that you personally lift weights. Lots of people dont. Population =/= population of bodybuilding.com

most of bb.com dont even lift, look at all the betas in the misc

[Znik]

Remembering that post obesity studies usually use pounds not body comp in popolation data is also interdasting when dealing with the non lifting world and cyclical dieting.

Loled at all the rage. This data is being presented without taking into account that you personally lift weights. Lots of people dont. Population =/= population of bodybuilding.com

It's quite easy to forget that, in here you have like 95% of the people lifting and getting regular exercise but in the real world you have like 95% of the people not lifting nor getting regular exercise.

Which is kinda sad, because more and more studies show the beneficial effect and easier maintenance of a weight loss when weight lifting and/or regular exercise is added. And in terms of losing weight.
It's like we got the answer to the world's problem, but no one wants to do it or listen .

Studies like these definitely does not help against world obesity though, as the media and whatnot often quotes it and it gives people a excuse not to lose weight or scares them from doing so.

But then again, this study is in lean people. It would be highly likely obese people has a far higher fat loss vs lean mass loss rate, so the rebound gain to replenish lost lean mass would be lesser than the fat lost. Then again, people who lose substantial lean mass would be those who does not have a adequate nutrition nor training so return to old habits of overeating would probably occur even without the "rebound effect".

The general population don't want to limit their intake, nor do they want to exercise. Because that feels bad, much easier chemical reward from eating a chocolate cake.
You can give em any excuse in the world, but it just boils down to the fact the world is lazy and love stuffing our faces with calorie dense food/drink.

Welcome to the Information Age where most people are chipping away years of their life each month.

[Znik]

most of bb.com dont even lift, look at all the betas in the misc

Shaddup and go eat some protein so you get some gains for once.

[AncientYouth]

Surprisingly yes, for most people, their life has come to be all they know and changing habits is met with resistance (help i cant stop binging threads). I dont think that being lean is sustainable for most people when i think about it, its not mentally healthy to count calories forever i feel and restricting calories can also constitute an eating disorder regardless of the spectrum of its usage.

people forget that there is such a thing as Maintenance and once you reach a weight you are happy with it's possible to maintain it with the odd fluctuation of a lb now and then as long as you remain relatively vigilant over what you eat.

I have reached a point where I can stay as i am without counting directly and if I feel I've over done it i just cut back a bit and all is well.

In the end maintenance of where you feel healthy and happy without it taking over your whole state of mind is the place to be


Even now well over 2 years since I hit my original goal and a year since my secondary goal a further 14lbs a total of 56lbs i still regularly get asked how I have maintained it, most people can't believe that it's just as matter of approach and mind set and not that hard in reality....they just keep dieting and getting no where

[Calarian]

Does food make people skinny? same thing can be argued.

[Rich1143]

I think constantly dieting incorrectly can make people fat. That is, dieting on a huge deficit will lead to physical, mental exhaustion and then overeating. Most people who diet have no clue what they are doing. I was one of those types before I finally decided to learn the basic tenets of nutrition and what I needed to lose/gain/maintain my weight.
These people are not inferior to anyone else, just uneducated. They can be educated and learn how to maintain healthy body weights through proper nutrition and exercise.

[WillBrink]

most of bb.com dont even lift, look at all the betas in the misc

LOL. This.

[Armstrong27]

Starving yourself creates a stress response in your body that triggers mechanisms that become more efficient at storing fat when you do eventually eat. It's an adaptation for humans that inhabited areas that had seasonal food scarcity. If you are never starved in your life then your body doesn't upregulate as many of these fat storing mechanisms.

So yes, once you start dieting to the extent that the body considers starvation then you will increase your ability to store fat once you stop.

[Akbar2k7]

I think this is where reverse dieting and slow fat loss are important.

[noob001]

These people are not inferior to anyone else, just uneducated. They can be educated and learn how to maintain healthy body weights through proper nutrition and exercise.

^ SOOO this! I grew up thinking something along the lines of "Dieting makes you fat", and also "Fat has nothing to do with quantity of food, its mostly genetic" - because that's what I was taught. And I was pointed to photos of all my fat family and relatives, as proof. It is honest ignorance, I had absolutely no doubt about these theories.

I have had my own stints of trying endless cardio and not seeing results (of course, because I used to eat like a pig after doing cardio) and then giving up after a couple of weeks, reinforcing the "Its all genetic" theory. In my early 20s I've even done stupid things like wearing one of those fat loss belts under my shirt. And eating & drinking like there's no tomorrow.

Thank goodness I stumbled on this forum out of sheer curiosity a little over a month back, and read the "How to lose fat for noobs" thread and the testimonies. Till now - honestly - I had no idea how much influence food has on fat, and the importance of protein. And I didn't know it is possible for everyone to lose fat, regardless of genetics!

Thanks to the internet, and a heartfelt thanks to the fat loss gurus who take the time to write all this stuff to help out others!

[sxgt]

I think the better wording is that, eating less slows down your metabolism.

[cerigitts]

I think the better wording is that, eating less slows down your metabolism.

eating less calories than used = weight loss (fat + LBM is not lifting with proper nutrition)

weight loss = lower base metabolic rate

lower base metabolic rate = lower maintenance level

People just go back to eating what they were before losing the weight thinking that's what they can get away with & keep the weight off, then without lifting, which is the majority, the idiots end up putting on more fat without any LBM and end up fatter than they were to start with & then can't understand why....

[bodybybell]

Yes and absolute yes! Dieting makes people fat. When I say dieting I refer to fad diets or crash diets. The "promise weight" that people lose is only water weight. Best case scenario they lose a solid 10 lbs but when they stop paying for the updates (because no one wants to eat the same thing every day) the weight will reappear, but with a vengeance. National Center for Biotechnology Information or NCBI has stated that 87% of people who go on a diet will gain the weight they lost back plus extra weight within the first year. Then after two years the percentage increases into the 90s..

But the definition of the term diet is bound by your daily eating habits. What you normally consume on a daily basis is your diet. This can change, but if you're looking to change your goal these dietary changes should be slow and steady. Hit the gym as hard as your body will let you but consistent changes here and there will lead to longer success. Unless, you don't mind being one of those models who turns 50 and has to get dozens of plastic surgeries and countless operations to improve their appearance. These quick changes we see on infomercials are short lived because no one is going to stick with that method for too long. The best you can do is to learn more about the human body and become your own personal trainer. The worst you can do is to lift weights only 3 times a week for 20 minutes because it's the "right thing to do." When you hit the gym it's all about effort and how far you exert each and every muscle fiber. Then proper dieting will cement your progress by feeding your muscle essential nutrients.

Don't buy in to any diets. With the right mindset, meal planning is okay. You just have to learn what the professional is offering you so that you can apply it to yourself.

Keep up the great work everyone!

@bodybybell

[Chrislonde]

This is all pretty intuitive stuff. The key thing to understand is that these statistic deals with weight regain and body comp changes. say someone has a lbm of 170 pounds, and a fat mass of 40 pounds. Say they loose 20 pounds over 2 months, and drop down from 210 to 190. Say 17 pounds lost was fat and 3 was lbm. they are now 167 lbm and 190 weight. Now, were they to just regain mass without following a proper plan, it is likely that they could be putting on 18-19 pounds of fat and 1-2 of lbm only, so they'll be back at 210, but this time with a lbm of 168. repeat the cycle a few time and you have fater and fater peoples. This gets exacerbated by the fact that peoples also age, making lbm harder and harder to keep and gain each cycle. But the main idea of the paper is that weight cycling is bad.
It's not about if dieting makes you fat, it's about if dieting and regaining all the weight will leave you at a higher bf, which is pretty obvious it will unless you follow a strict plan.

Peoples also aren't made to be 10% bf. from an evolutionary standpoint, 10% is way too low. So if you take someone who's 18%, "force" him to drop to 10%, good chance he'll creep back up quite quickly. in the old days, those who had too hard of a time putting on fat and were made to be really lean naturaly ended up dying first whenever food got scarce, leaving more "fat" peoples to leave their descendants, and skewing each and every time the balance in favor of the human race being a bit "pudgy"
And we haven't adapted yet to food being so over-abundant yet. we're still more like bears. We want to eat everything we can because come the winter, or a drought, or whatever can happen, we will need all the reserve we can get to push through it.
This is why self-control is hard for so many peoples. We actually ARE genetically programed to overeat. It's not an excuse though, because the one thing that we human have and other animals don't, is the ability to choose to act on our urges/feelings/instincts/whatever or not.

[chewbrahca91]

Starving yourself creates a stress response in your body that triggers mechanisms that become more efficient at storing fat when you do eventually eat. It's an adaptation for humans that inhabited areas that had seasonal food scarcity. If you are never starved in your life then your body doesn't upregulate as many of these fat storing mechanisms.

So yes, once you start dieting to the extent that the body considers starvation then you will increase your ability to store fat once you stop.

Lol this guy ...

Why the hell are the starving people in third world communities (and even in the richer countries) skinny? Where is there "starvation" mode?

If a good majority of people doing diets from fitness magazines see this article, in my honest opinion, it's just justifying that they will never get skinny and they'll just be another statistic that is "90% of dieters gain their weight back within the first year".

[Znik]

Starving yourself creates a stress response in your body that triggers mechanisms that become more efficient at storing fat when you do eventually eat. It's an adaptation for humans that inhabited areas that had seasonal food scarcity. If you are never starved in your life then your body doesn't upregulate as many of these fat storing mechanisms.

So yes, once you start dieting to the extent that the body considers starvation then you will increase your ability to store fat once you stop.

No, yes TDEE/RMR can drop during a deficit due to various unknown reasons, but the biggest drop comes from a psychological response to reduce NEAT. The bigger the weight loss the bigger the potential response. Your body doesn't magically create more energy from food, but it can reduce energy expenditure by a small amount.

Our bodies are already masters of storing fat, it doesn't need starvation to rev it up, just excess calories. Besides, in order to hit "starvation mode" you actually need to be under starvation, which is like 0-500 calories a day, hardly anyone in the world will ever eat that little (apart from those few areas in the world where starvation is actually real).

When we lose weight, our maintenance calories goes down, bigger the weight loss the bigger the reduction (fat actually requires calories to maintain, along with the energy required to move it around, lbm loss etc.) but it can take some time before appetite down regulates to the new weight.

One major factor to consider when people lose weight is that those people have already been overeating once or more in their life (since they got fat). When there is no control over calorie intake or you keep a eye on the scales, it is not surprising that those people return to overeating. We are creatures of habit, a short term change for weight loss without spending time to focus on it's maintenance will easily just put you back to old habits.

In general people view losing weight as a chore or torture not a lifestyle change, drop the weight go back to old lifestyle and the weight comes back.

[Rich1143]

^ SOOO this! I grew up thinking something along the lines of "Dieting makes you fat", and also "Fat has nothing to do with quantity of food, its mostly genetic" - because that's what I was taught. And I was pointed to photos of all my fat family and relatives, as proof. It is honest ignorance, I had absolutely no doubt about these theories.

I have had my own stints of trying endless cardio and not seeing results (of course, because I used to eat like a pig after doing cardio) and then giving up after a couple of weeks, reinforcing the "Its all genetic" theory. In my early 20s I've even done stupid things like wearing one of those fat loss belts under my shirt. And eating & drinking like there's no tomorrow.

Thank goodness I stumbled on this forum out of sheer curiosity a little over a month back, and read the "How to lose fat for noobs" thread and the testimonies. Till now - honestly - I had no idea how much influence food has on fat, and the importance of protein. And I didn't know it is possible for everyone to lose fat, regardless of genetics!

Thanks to the internet, and a heartfelt thanks to the fat loss gurus who take the time to write all this stuff to help out others!

Totally. I did the "only cardio" + eating not enough for a while. I just got into a cycle of feeling flat, getting hungry, then going on a binge. Now I am losing fat and underlying muscle is for the most part staying put. I love to do cardio, but lifting + caloric deficit sweet spot (not too low, not too high) is what is helping me make the scale move.

[Luclin999]

Summary: Stupid people with no real grasp of nutrition or self discipline do stupid things.


Personally, the most that I ever weighed was 238 (in 1999) and that was before I ever started any type of diet/weight loss plan.

Since that point my weight has fluctuated between 187 (where it is today) and 218 but it has never come close to my "pre-dieting" weight much less over it.

And I attribute that to the fact that the knowledge that I gained from dieting made it easier to realize when I was on a bad course and start taking steps to correct it before things went completely out of hand. Ie. I actually try to learn from my mistakes.

The people studied clearly do not.

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

[Armstrong27]

Lol this guy ...

Why the hell are the starving people in third world communities (and even in the richer countries) skinny? Where is there "starvation" mode?

If a good majority of people doing diets from fitness magazines see this article, in my honest opinion, it's just justifying that they will never get skinny and they'll just be another statistic that is "90% of dieters gain their weight back within the first year".

They are in it, their metabolism has beome more efficient but they don't have the available food source to then gorge on. The whole point is that the diet itself releases hormones like cortisol, which enhances the body's ability to begin gluconeogenesis by upregulating enzymes associated. This upregulation, if gone on for long enough, will permanently alter the level of enzymes that control this because hormone receptors have a negative feedback loop that prevents overuse and in turn alters the persons ability to make energy from their fat stores in future (same principle for insulin in diabetes or ******* in drug abuse). Energy in and energy out is key to fat gain, the problem is the physiological effect of not having as much energy may not be obvious but it comes in the form of slowing down all movements 24 hours a day. You may be able to workout the same but your rmr has dropped and the smallest movement like reaching for a glass has become slightly more energy efficient. There are also of course huge psychological anomalies attached to this as well given the brain is like any other organ under stress response and not only does your brain have to answer to your own body cells but also hormones released from starving bacteria in your stomach (which out number your entire cellular makeup at 10 to 1).

[WillBrink]

Summary: Stupid people with no real grasp of nutrition or self discipline do stupid things.


Personally, the most that I ever weighed was 238 (in 1999) and that was before I ever started any type of diet/weight loss plan.

Since that point my weight has fluctuated between 187 (where it is today) and 218 but it has never come close to my "pre-dieting" weight much less over it.

And I attribute that to the fact that the knowledge that I gained from dieting made it easier to realize when I was on a bad course and start taking steps to correct it before things went completely out of hand. Ie. I actually try to learn from my mistakes.

The people studied clearly do not.

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Why don't we go with "uninformed people..." Sounds like you have been there yourself no? You learned, made the
proper changes, and reaped the benefits.