Cardio - go all out now or save some in the tank for the inevitable plateau?

[missbellejane]

Hi all

I'll start by saying that I am absolutely aware that cardio isn't necessary for fat loss! However I've got a significant amount of fat to lose so in conjunction with a controlled diet, I'm using cardio as a way of burning extra calories in an attempt to speed up the process.
My current weekly training routine looks a little something like this:

4 x lifting sessions per week (2 x upper body and 2 x lower body sessions)
2 x 20 minute interval cardio sessions immediately following upper body training
5 x 30 minute fasted, moderate intensity cardio sessions first thing in the morning

At the moment I've got 3 "rest" evenings per week where I'm not lifting. What I had initially intended was to use 2 of those rest days for high intensity cardio sessions but I'm finding that my lifting sessions are quite draining while my body is adapting to regular training again. I'm more than happy to push through that fatigue to get the cardio sessions done but I'm wondering if perhaps I should avoid adding those extra sessions in now as I may need to have something sitting in reserve for a little further down the track if/when I hit a plateau. My logic is that if I'm maxxed out on cardio now then the only option I've got down the track is to cut calories and I'd like to hold off doing that for as long as possible.

Would love some feedback from those with experience in this area

[leeniepie]

im no expert, but 2x20 mins intervals plus 5x30min steady seems like a whole ton or cardio to me! even 30minx5 is quite a lot. how long have you been exercising? (you say your body is still adapting to regular training?)
I would aim more for 4xlifting and 3x cardio (1 steady and 2 intervals or 1 intervals and 2 steady depending on how much the other training is wiping you out).

[kestess]

Hi all

I'll start by saying that I am absolutely aware that cardio isn't necessary for fat loss! However I've got a significant amount of fat to lose so in conjunction with a controlled diet, I'm using cardio as a way of burning extra calories in an attempt to speed up the process.
My current weekly training routine looks a little something like this:

4 x lifting sessions per week (2 x upper body and 2 x lower body sessions)
2 x 20 minute interval cardio sessions immediately following upper body training
5 x 30 minute fasted, moderate intensity cardio sessions first thing in the morning

At the moment I've got 3 "rest" evenings per week where I'm not lifting. What I had initially intended was to use 2 of those rest days for high intensity cardio sessions but I'm finding that my lifting sessions are quite draining while my body is adapting to regular training again. I'm more than happy to push through that fatigue to get the cardio sessions done but I'm wondering if perhaps I should avoid adding those extra sessions in now as I may need to have something sitting in reserve for a little further down the track if/when I hit a plateau. My logic is that if I'm maxxed out on cardio now then the only option I've got down the track is to cut calories and I'd like to hold off doing that for as long as possible.

Would love some feedback from those with experience in this area

Wow that is a lot of cardio to start with. If it were me I would focus on lifting as heavy as possible, keep the 1-2 HIIT sessions and one STeady state session.

[oregonchick76]

If you have some sort of activity each day, you are doing plenty and should let your diet do the rest of the work.

I personally like my rest days, but there is nothing wrong with doing short sessions of cardio on rest days.

Still, I would not do exercise twice in one day (personal preference).

I think if the cardio is relatively brief, it's fine to do some after upper body days, as well as short-ish sessions on rest days, which is less than what you are doing right now.

What does your diet look like? How many calories?
What does your lifting routine look like? How long? How intense?

[missbellejane]

Thanks for the feedback ladies. To be honest, I hadn't really thought it was all that much cardio, perhaps my view is still somewhat skewed from the wasted years of being a cardio bunny.
I am actually really enjoying the early AM sessions as it's a nice way to kick start my day.

To answer some of the questions:
I've been training inconsistently for about 18 months. The last 6 months I have been getting more consistent (lifestyle change means I can stick to a more solid routine now) and in the last few weeks I've really been giving it my all and I feel like I'm just now reaching the point where my routine is locked in, with no excuses.
I'm following the lifting program on the Simply Shredded website. It usually takes me about 45 minutes or so per session.
I'm not counting calories at the moment, I had been tracking but I found that I was tending towards the obsessive side a little bit too much so I've given myself a bit of a break from it for a little while just to see how it goes. I am still mindful of what I'm eating and I do still weigh out some of my food to make sure I'm not blowing out on portions. A typical day would look something like this:

Breakfast - 2 eggs scrambled up with about half a cup of chopped veggies (onion, capsicum, mushroom, tomato, kale) and a teaspoon of cottage cheese
Snack - 100g 2% fat greek yoghurt with a handful of berries
Lunch - 150g grilled chicken breast with salad (baby spinach, cucumber, capsicum, tomatoes, 1/4 of an avocado)
Snack - Protein shake
Dinner - lean protein (I don't weigh this, usually just go for something roughly the size of my palm) with grilled or stir fry veggies

I know that I probably *should* be counting my calories given that I'm wanting to lose fat but weight is dropping just with what I'm doing now so I'm happy enough that it's working. When I reach the point where it stops working, then I'll re-evaluate and start tracking macros and calories again.

[oregonchick76]

Thanks for the feedback ladies. To be honest, I hadn't really thought it was all that much cardio, perhaps my view is still somewhat skewed from the wasted years of being a cardio bunny.
I am actually really enjoying the early AM sessions as it's a nice way to kick start my day.

To answer some of the questions:
I've been training inconsistently for about 18 months. The last 6 months I have been getting more consistent (lifestyle change means I can stick to a more solid routine now) and in the last few weeks I've really been giving it my all and I feel like I'm just now reaching the point where my routine is locked in, with no excuses.
I'm following the lifting program on the Simply Shredded website. It usually takes me about 45 minutes or so per session.
I'm not counting calories at the moment, I had been tracking but I found that I was tending towards the obsessive side a little bit too much so I've given myself a bit of a break from it for a little while just to see how it goes. I am still mindful of what I'm eating and I do still weigh out some of my food to make sure I'm not blowing out on portions. A typical day would look something like this:

Breakfast - 2 eggs scrambled up with about half a cup of chopped veggies (onion, capsicum, mushroom, tomato, kale) and a teaspoon of cottage cheese
Snack - 100g 2% fat greek yoghurt with a handful of berries
Lunch - 150g grilled chicken breast with salad (baby spinach, cucumber, capsicum, tomatoes, 1/4 of an avocado)
Snack - Protein shake
Dinner - lean protein (I don't weigh this, usually just go for something roughly the size of my palm) with grilled or stir fry veggies

I know that I probably *should* be counting my calories given that I'm wanting to lose fat but weight is dropping just with what I'm doing now so I'm happy enough that it's working. When I reach the point where it stops working, then I'll re-evaluate and start tracking macros and calories again.

If you are losing weight without counting, that's cool. Keep doing what works and makes you happy. You need to be mindful of both protein and fat intake - you need roughly 120-130g of protein minimum, and 40-60g of fat, even on a diet. Looking at your 'typical' day of eating, I'd say your fat intake is probably too low. Your calorie intake would be rather low on that too.

[missbellejane]

If you are losing weight without counting, that's cool. Keep doing what works and makes you happy. You need to be mindful of both protein and fat intake - you need roughly 120-130g of protein minimum, and 40-60g of fat, even on a diet. Looking at your 'typical' day of eating, I'd say your fat intake is probably too low. Your calorie intake would be rather low on that too.

I'll happily add in some more fat! Although I've not indicated the relatively small amounts of coconut oil I use for cooking my protein and veg so that may very well bump it up enough.
Thanks for the feedback

[nacersusaf]

If not tracking is working for you, by all means keep doing that! Some people just don't like counting and feel like it adds stress to their already stressed lives. That being said, it seems like you are eating far too little. From my math you are only eating maybe 1000 calories per day;

2 eggs + veggies and a tsp of cottage cheese = 200 calories at most?
yogurt + berries = 180 calories?
chicken salad + avocado = 250 calories?
Protein shake = 130 calories (depends if you mix with water or milk)
protein + veggies = 250 perhaps?
Even with bits of coconut oil here or there you might be adding 150 calories to your day, but that is still an alarmingly small amount of food for someone with your stats. You're doing yourself a serious disservice.

As far as the cardio goes, I don't feel the amount you are doing is excessive, but it doesn't leave you a whole ton of wiggle room going forward.

In terms of fat loss the order of importance is diet, sleep, weight training, and cardio is so far in 4th place that it might as well not even be on the list! That probably sounds crazy, but in my experience working with my clients and other competitors, the more cardio that is done the less muscle mass that is maintained. Again, totally anecdotal, but its been my observation over the years.

I would recommend reducing the cardio to 3 sessions per week to start (but I like that you are doing interval training) and focus a bit more on your diet. Account for all of those bits and bites and small amounts of coconut oil at least for a week to get a solid idea of your macro split and overall calories.

You might be seeing results now (which is fantastic by the way) but overdoing the cardio and eating too little right off the bat doesn't leave you with anywhere to go from here.

[missbellejane]

If not tracking is working for you, by all means keep doing that! Some people just don't like counting and feel like it adds stress to their already stressed lives. That being said, it seems like you are eating far too little. From my math you are only eating maybe 1000 calories per day;

2 eggs + veggies and a tsp of cottage cheese = 200 calories at most?
yogurt + berries = 180 calories?
chicken salad + avocado = 250 calories?
Protein shake = 130 calories (depends if you mix with water or milk)
protein + veggies = 250 perhaps?
Even with bits of coconut oil here or there you might be adding 150 calories to your day, but that is still an alarmingly small amount of food for someone with your stats. You're doing yourself a serious disservice.

As far as the cardio goes, I don't feel the amount you are doing is excessive, but it doesn't leave you a whole ton of wiggle room going forward.

In terms of fat loss the order of importance is diet, sleep, weight training, and cardio is so far in 4th place that it might as well not even be on the list! That probably sounds crazy, but in my experience working with my clients and other competitors, the more cardio that is done the less muscle mass that is maintained. Again, totally anecdotal, but its been my observation over the years.

I would recommend reducing the cardio to 3 sessions per week to start (but I like that you are doing interval training) and focus a bit more on your diet. Account for all of those bits and bites and small amounts of coconut oil at least for a week to get a solid idea of your macro split and overall calories.

You might be seeing results now (which is fantastic by the way) but overdoing the cardio and eating too little right off the bat doesn't leave you with anywhere to go from here.

Awesome, thank you so much. Really valuable info.
I'm going to take all of your advice on board, cut back on my cardio now and I'll invest some time into my diet to make sure I'm eating enough