BCAA on bulk?

[Anaerobics]

As the title says. I didnt think they were necessary while bulking because of all the food you are taking in, but in Dr. Jacob Wilkinson's Project Mass, he says to take them to maintain protein synthesis.

[NEBinAK]

We have a study coming out later this year that speaks about its efficacy as an intra and muscle gains, I personally take them as an intra with every lift.

[Anaerobics]

Thanks!

[dazedncnfz]

Always take them intra but to be honest I'll drink them all day long whether on a cut or a bulk...no harm in it at all.

[mentalist72]

I personally take them as an intra with every lift.

You and me both.

[pisarcik.k]

I'd go with EAAs over BCAAs... There are many studies that support EAAs for intra workout use. Personally I choose EAAs because in order for BCAAs to initiate protein synthesis ALL essential amino acids must be present. So when you consume BCAAs the other amino acids are draw from your amino acid pool. With EAAs, all of the amino acids needed are there from the start. I think of it like that, with BCAAs, mainly leucine, you enter battle, but you need to recruit soliders to giht after you enter battle. With the EAAs, you enter battle with all of the troops there.

[The Solution]

BCAA's would only benefit you for fasted AM Training dosed pre-workout or as a bolus between meals 4-6 hours apart

http://www.biolayne.com/wp-content/u...-Tech-2008.pdf
http://www.slideshare.net/biolayne/o...nd-muscle-mass


as far as EAA's may go:

WHY EAA's more important than BCAA intra-workout:
but EAAs may impart some endurance-like effects that BCAAs simply cannot.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/94/3/809.long

This is the only study done in trained humans consuming EAAs during the workout. These are legit, military-trained personnel doing both resistance and endurance work.

The findings?

"In summary, consumption of a 10-g dose of EAA enriched with leucine during moderate endurance-type exercise stimulated increased MPS when compared with an isonitrogenous EAA supplement with an amino acid profile consistent with high-quality proteins. These data indicate that increasing leucine availability during steady state exercise promotes skeletal muscle protein anabolism and spares endogenous protein."


Cliffs:

These EAAs increased postworkout MPS by 33% when consumed during exercise
The drink with the highest leucine content spared muscle to the greatest degree

[COUNTRYMIKE]

BCAA's work great and are very beneficial no matter your training or program, use them on a cut or bulk either is just fine.

[pisarcik.k]

BCAA's would only benefit you for fasted AM Training dosed pre-workout or as a bolus between meals 4-6 hours apart

http://www.biolayne.com/wp-content/u...-Tech-2008.pdf
http://www.slideshare.net/biolayne/o...nd-muscle-mass


as far as EAA's may go:

WHY EAA's more important than BCAA intra-workout:
but EAAs may impart some endurance-like effects that BCAAs simply cannot.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/94/3/809.long

This is the only study done in trained humans consuming EAAs during the workout. These are legit, military-trained personnel doing both resistance and endurance work.

The findings?

"In summary, consumption of a 10-g dose of EAA enriched with leucine during moderate endurance-type exercise stimulated increased MPS when compared with an isonitrogenous EAA supplement with an amino acid profile consistent with high-quality proteins. These data indicate that increasing leucine availability during steady state exercise promotes skeletal muscle protein anabolism and spares endogenous protein."


Cliffs:

These EAAs increased postworkout MPS by 33% when consumed during exercise
The drink with the highest leucine content spared muscle to the greatest degree

Actually BCAAs fasted is a poor choice because they need the other EAAs to simulate protein synthesis.... this is why they are effective between meals as amino acids are available to draw from.

[Ktraybae]

Actually BCAAs fasted is a poor choice because they need the other EAAs to simulate protein synthesis.... this is why they are effective between meals as amino acids are available to draw from.

Huh? Why is someone trying to stimulate protein synthesis pre workout? BCAAs are great fasted as they provide energy, as they replenish the amino acid pool. And they do this at little to no calories.

[Anaerobics]

Thank you the Solution! I usually train in the AM and eat after.

Any recommendations?

[pisarcik.k]

Huh? Why is someone trying to stimulate protein synthesis pre workout? BCAAs are great fasted as they provide energy, as they replenish the amino acid pool. And they do this at little to no calories.

That is what the other poster said and I responded. Yes, I do know what I am talking about. I've only studied this for that past 16 years... The only way to replenish the amino acid pool is with the amino acids.... what you posted is nonsense lol How can three amino acids replenish the amino acid pool?

BCAAs need the other EAAs to do their job, that is a fact. Leucine will signal mTor but that is only the signal, the other EAAs are still needed.

[Ktraybae]

That is what the other poster said and I responded. Yes, I do know what I am talking about. I've only studied this for that past 16 years... The only way to replenish the amino acid pool is with the amino acids.... what you posted is nonsense lol How can three amino acids replenish the amino acid pool?

BCAAs need the other EAAs to do their job, that is a fact. Leucine will signal mTor but that is only the signal, the other EAAs are still needed.

Odd, considering the study i looked at showed a solid spike in muscle protein synthesis given only leucine supplementation. I never said we don't need EAAs. BCAAs can help provide AAs for the pool, and provide energy. You can't dispute that. But you are right, i worded my post wrong, i never meant to imply that BCAAs would fully replenish the AA pool.

[Sean26607]

Most BCAA's taste fam good...at anytime of the day...personal preference on "believing" when U should use them....
BB
Scivation
Muscle Martini (GAT)
TSN Hyperblend
^^^^ all great tasting ones.

[pisarcik.k]

Odd, considering the study i looked at showed a solid spike in muscle protein synthesis given only leucine supplementation. I never said we don't need EAAs. BCAAs can help provide AAs for the pool, and provide energy. You can't dispute that. But you are right, i worded my post wrong, i never meant to imply that BCAAs would fully replenish the AA pool.

Was that after fasting and for how long?

This study sheds light: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20110810 From the full text, "Muscle protein synthesis machinery may be activated by this leucine increase but cannot translate into protein synthesis because of the lack of simultaneous availability of the other amino acids (as substrates for protein synthesis).”

The ignorance of your comment saying I should not post because I don't know what I'm talking about? really?

[dazedncnfz]

[Bigdumogre]

Thank you the Solution! I usually train in the AM and eat after.

Any recommendations?

ErgoChain right now Is buy one get a 10 serving tub free
All 4 flavors are amazing and can't go wrong with any.

BB.com amino are another favorite of mine really solid

[pisarcik.k]

Studies can yield different results based on context. But for someone to say someone is stupid and tell them to never post because the study they read shows proof of something else is in poor taste... I'll leave it at that...

According to Lyle McDonald, "Despite all of the hype over BCAA, there are actually 8 essential amino acids and your body can’t do jack if it doesn’t have all of them (and since it makes the inessential aminos out of essential if they are lacking, even just consuming those 8 is still stupid)."

So I guess Lyle must be a moron too... right?

[YIMBROKE]

We have a study coming out later this year that speaks about its efficacy as an intra and muscle gains, I personally take them as an intra with every lift.

X2 on this. I always train fasted and consume mine intra.

[pu12en12g]

Always take them intra but to be honest I'll drink them all day long whether on a cut or a bulk...

^^^^ This (pre-workout bandwagon, just fine too).... either way LOTS of water

[pu12en12g]

BCAAs fasted is a poor choice

Certainly can be, depending on the goal... so many people are VERY happy being small and shredded

[pisarcik.k]

Certainly can be, depending on the goal... so many people are VERY happy being small and shredded

So my post above quoting Lyle McDonald...

I actually use Pepto pro intra workout, neither BCAAs or EAAs, because it is hydrolyzed at 80% peptides... It's funny when you try to mock people... Some people are also happy never seeing below 10% body fat and looking like a bloated fish...

Do BCAAs have merit, yes they do, can they reduce muscle breakdown, certainly, can they aid in fat loss when taken preworkout fasted, yes they can, but when it comes to protein synthesis and recovery, according to Lyle, "There are actually 8 essential amino acids and your body can’t do jack if it doesn’t have all of them."

[MillerTime07]

If you have the extra money, then sure go ahead and buy a BCAA. Most do taste great and can help encourage hydration during the workout. I personally don't use BCAA's on a bulk unless I train fasted in the mornings. I'd rather spend the money on food.

[Ktraybae]

Was that after fasting and for how long?

This study sheds light: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20110810 From the full text, "Muscle protein synthesis machinery may be activated by this leucine increase but cannot translate into protein synthesis because of the lack of simultaneous availability of the other amino acids (as substrates for protein synthesis).”

The ignorance of your comment saying I should not post because I don't know what I'm talking about? really?

You cited a poorly done study in an impact factor <4 journal. Not a sterling response on your part. That journal is not very relevant in nutrition or endocrinology. Furthermore there are plenty of citations showing positive responses to muscle protein synthesis via leucine administration. Not to mention when added to isoleucine and valine we may have even better results, which is what this discussion is truly about.

[pisarcik.k]

You cited a poorly done study in an impact factor <4 journal. Not a sterling response on your part. That journal is not very relevant in nutrition or endocrinology. Furthermore there are plenty of citations showing positive responses to muscle protein synthesis via leucine administration. Not to mention when added to isoleucine and valine we may have even better results, which is what this discussion is truly about.

I acknowledge this, but were they in a fed or fasted state?

I'll ask this question, if BCAAs stimulate protein synthesis, in the absence of the other amino acids, what are they going to synthesize protein out of?

Alan Aragon, "As for the claim that supplemental BCAA is necessary to prevent muscle loss from fasted training, that's not supported by the scientific literature."

[IlliniTrack800m]

We have a study coming out later this year that speaks about its efficacy as an intra and muscle gains, I personally take them as an intra with every lift.

You and me both.

BCAA's work great and are very beneficial no matter your training or program, use them on a cut or bulk either is just fine.

X2 on this. I always train fasted and consume mine intra.

^^^^ This (pre-workout bandwagon, just fine too).... either way LOTS of water

Always take them intra but to be honest I'll drink them all day long whether on a cut or a bulk...no harm in it at all.

me too.

Most BCAA's taste fam good...at anytime of the day...personal preference on "believing" when U should use them....
BB
Scivation
Muscle Martini (GAT)
TSN Hyperblend
^^^^ all great tasting ones.

Thanks for the shout out!

[NEBinAK]

Thank you the Solution! I usually train in the AM and eat after.

Any recommendations?

We can never have a simple bcaa thread, hehe

Anyway as for a recommendation scivation xtend is on sale right now, (see sig)

[SCG]

We have a study coming out later this year that speaks about its efficacy as an intra and muscle gains, I personally take them as an intra with every lift.

Been interested in reading this since I seen Mike mention it a week or two back when he posted those disgusting factory photos.

[NEBinAK]

Been interested in reading this since I seen Mike mention it a week or two back when he posted those disgusting factory photos.

If I remember right we are still a ways out from reading it, think it is going to make an appearance 2nd or 3rd quarter

[TheFugitive]

I use BCAA's for cutting and bulking