Official Supp Beer Misc #5: Bring in da Sours, Bring in da Funk

[jamm!n]

Homebrew brahs;

I haven't had much luck nailing down a solid Imperial Stout or English Bwine yet. I want something 12% + but with mad syrupy viscosity and a good taste of residual sugars. Like that huna viscosity, or King Henry/Great.

I'm thinking that maybe I need to just aim for like 9-10%, and choose an English ale strain that is fairly high attenuating (I'll do some ballpark calcs to make sure). Boil 2 hrs. Aerate for a good 20-30 sec with pure O2. Make a massive 2L starter and pitch it at 48-72 hrs in during peak fermentation of the starter wort.
Aim for a strain that will stop it around 1.025-1.030 and do sugar feedings for a couple days if I want to bump the ABV?

Thoughts?




Guess who's got a box of packing peanuts waiting for your next beermail?



I'm still obsessed with Black House. So amazing. So easily accesible. Love that sht.

jelly of dat fou and pulling nails.

Imperial Stouts are a mystery in the homebrew world (and obviously somewhat in the pro/craft arena as well). You can find recipes for any other styles for days.. with awards and write ups as to why they taste the way they do.. not so much for imperial stouts.


If you want a thick/syrupy RIS - you have to finish above 1.030 at a minimum. I recently did a side by side with a Huna clone and the real thing (the bottle you sent, thanks again) and the clone was WAYY thinner. The body was easily the biggest difference. The clone finished at 1.028.

My advice would be to use Wyeast 1968/WLP002 and aim for 1.115 SG or so. Hopefully that would finish around 1.040 or so which I think is about the finishing gravity you really want. That ESB strain is far away the best english yeast around in my opinion. Ive tried a couple others and havent been a fan.

FWIW - BCBS finishes at 1.045. Think about how syrupy/thick that beer is to help dial in what you want in your beer.

[StrongRepublican]

Homebrew brahs;

I haven't had much luck nailing down a solid Imperial Stout or English Bwine yet. I want something 12% + but with mad syrupy viscosity and a good taste of residual sugars. Like that huna viscosity, or King Henry/Great.

I'm thinking that maybe I need to just aim for like 9-10%, and choose an English ale strain that is fairly high attenuating (I'll do some ballpark calcs to make sure). Boil 2 hrs. Aerate for a good 20-30 sec with pure O2. Make a massive 2L starter and pitch it at 48-72 hrs in during peak fermentation of the starter wort.
Aim for a strain that will stop it around 1.025-1.030 and do sugar feedings for a couple days if I want to bump the ABV?

Thoughts?




Guess who's got a box of packing peanuts waiting for your next beermail?



I'm still obsessed with Black House. So amazing. So easily accesible. Love that sht.

jelly of dat fou and pulling nails.

Jamm!n totally nailed a lot of what I was going to say.

A super highly attenuating yeast is going to bring that FG down below your desired end-point IMO, basically it's too efficient at converting all those sugars into alcohol. A less effecient, or lower attenuating yeast will leave you with more residual sugars which is what you want for the body and consistency you're looking for. The double edge sword there is of course it'll be more difficult to hit your target ABV.

Grain bill will obviously come in to play, especially because you're probably looking at 25+ lbs of grain for a 5gal batch. 2hr boil will help caramelize some of those sugars, but I've also played around with concentrating wort on a smaller level - pull off 1.5gal and cook it down separately at a raging boil and add it back in to your main boil pot at flash-out.

Just spit-balling here but now you've made me want to try my hand at this as well... I assume you're looking to stay away from adjuncts on this one?

What you're struggling with is a problem that most commercial brewers who have been in the game for YEARS still struggle with. If it were as easy as just pitching the right yeast at a specific SG, we'd all be making KBBS in our garages

[thefleshlight]

you also think Notorious tastes like Simtra

www.rif.org

I never said that. I said that one beer tastes like if you blended it w/ simtra and notorious, Norman.

[janky]

Yeah... good points on the residuals. I think the last time we tried a big RIS we were at 1.13x and it was just too much. Our FG stalled out at 1.060, same issue as our bwine that was a SG of 1.144.
Plus at gravity that high, you have all these issues with osmotic pressure and the yeast cell walls. That, and once you go above 10% ABV-ish I believe the English strains can't hang with the toxicity and just stop.

1.060 is just too damn high. It tastes like melted candy bars and fusel alcohols.
I could probably just create a recipe, aim for 1.110 or under with the grain bill, and plan on a 1.040 FG... but that's like 63% attenuation or so? (1.110 - 1.040) / .110 = .63 x 100 would be 63% ?
unless I'm doing that wrong. Math's not my strong suit.
But it seems like that's within the range for WLP002 (60-70%)

I think our gravity has just been too high. Plus gravity increases with that extended boil, right? Is there a ballpark on how much, or a formula to account for that? Does Beersmith automatically adjust?

[StrongRepublican]

Yeah... good points on the residuals. I think the last time we tried a big RIS we were at 1.13x and it was just too much. Our FG stalled out at 1.060, same issue as our bwine that was a SG of 1.144.
Plus at gravity that high, you have all these issues with osmotic pressure and the yeast cell walls. That, and once you go above 10% ABV-ish I believe the English strains can't hang with the toxicity and just stop.

1.060 is just too damn high. It tastes like melted candy bars and fusel alcohols.
I could probably just create a recipe, aim for 1.110 or under with the grain bill, and plan on a 1.040 FG... but that's like 63% attenuation or so? (1.110 - 1.040) / .110 = .63 x 100 would be 63% ?
unless I'm doing that wrong. Math's not my strong suit.
But it seems like that's within the range for WLP002 (60-70%)

I think our gravity has just been too high. Plus gravity increases with that extended boil, right? Is there a ballpark on how much, or a formula to account for that? Does Beersmith automatically adjust?

Longer boil will definitely raise your gravity because as the water evaporates the sugar concentration in the wort will increase. Brewer's Friend has a calculator for estimating pre-boil and starting gravity readings based off your volume going into the boil and total time. As for the yeast, your math looks right to me, but expected attenuation and actual attenuation can vary hugely based off of conditions. Do you have a fermentation vessel that you use for temp control? I've had to re-invigorate yeast before (stirring without aerating) and I've also pitched a second starter into secondary after racking off the floculated yeast from primary.

[StrongRepublican]

Cool article on De Garde in the latest BA magazine if anyone else subscribes..

[thefleshlight]

Cool article on De Garde in the latest BA magazine if anyone else subscribes..

Is there a digital version of this somewhere? I find it funny they have a hardcopy magazine service that is apparently still being purchased.

[StrongRepublican]

Is there a digital version of this somewhere? I find it funny they have a hardcopy magazine service that is apparently still being purchased.

Not that I know of. I only subscribed on a whim a few months ago when they did a special for like $10 for the year. I figured I've spent more on a bad burger so fuk it.

[jamm!n]

Janks - the ESB strain will go over 10% no problem. That's what CCB uses as well as Boneyard. Both push it above 10%.

I brewed a pale ale that went well over 80% attenuation with 002.

Aerate good and rouse the yeast when the airlock slows down.

[thefleshlight]

Aerate good and rouse the yeast when the airlock slows down.

you rouse my yeast, bro

[janky]

Longer boil will definitely raise your gravity because as the water evaporates the sugar concentration in the wort will increase. Brewer's Friend has a calculator for estimating pre-boil and starting gravity readings based off your volume going into the boil and total time. As for the yeast, your math looks right to me, but expected attenuation and actual attenuation can vary hugely based off of conditions. Do you have a fermentation vessel that you use for temp control? I've had to re-invigorate yeast before (stirring without aerating) and I've also pitched a second starter into secondary after racking off the floculated yeast from primary.

Yeah, we have two fermentation chambers that have digital temp control.
With a big beer, I usually aim for a couple degrees just below what the optimum temp says on the vial. Let it go apesht for a couple days, and then bump it up a couple degrees.

Janks - the ESB strain will go over 10% no problem. That's what CCB uses as well as Boneyard. Both push it above 10%.

I brewed a pale ale that went well over 80% attenuation with 002.

Aerate good and rouse the yeast when the airlock slows down.

Hmmm... I wonder how they pull that off then. Mine always shts out around 10-11% ABV.

I think another part of the equation is staying on top of that fermentation.
Our set up is at my brewing partner's house, so usually we pitch, and leave it be. Lately I've been doing the "couple degrees low, then bump it up" thing, but I just text him and remind him to do it.

Ideally, if I had it in my place, I'd be monitoring it daily...

[StrongRepublican]

The guy I brew with is building a Brewer's Pi to do pretty much that - start low then gradually increase temp, then finally cold crash. He's much more technically savvy than me...

Edit: Based off of this: http://www.brewpi.com/

[jamm!n]

fugi brah - might have to send a bottle of this to you.

it's only been conditioning for a week, but this bish has a strong dank streak in it. Nelson, Simcoe, Mosaic and Columbus. Dry as fukk Rye IPA, 7.1%

[TopsecretWaffle]

^sounds awesome. u try that modem tones yet?

[jamm!n]

^indeed. not whale status but I enjoyed trying it. pretty dank with a dry/light malt character. always a treat to sample socal's IPA's - thanks for sending!

[swingracex]

anyone done an international trade? i really want to pull the trigger...but is it worth it? its a dutchbrah...

[icetrauma]

anyone done an international trade? i really want to pull the trigger...but is it worth it? its a dutchbrah...

Never have but I did get some Westys off the Bay many seasons ago. I guess it all depends on what the trade is for.

[DasBiceps]

Funky Buddha doing German Chocolate Cake growler fill tomorrow.


Hoping i can make it for this as it is still my favorite of their brews

[swingracex]

the vanilla rye hype train is still taking passengers...some dinktown bottle shop about 3 hour from here somehow landed a 6th of vr last weekend and were filling 32ozers with no limit...some of the beerbros in our tasting group went up there and geez the trades they landed...2:2 veritas 13 14, 1:1 statement reserve...i traded mine for casey black amber italian plum + casey east bank + casey saison then i added a beetus tuesday for ac golden kriek and peche...ive had cherry fruit stand i think and my god i want all the casey...cant wait to bathe in the sour goodness of the western colorado slopes

[DICE20]

I want some Blazing World again.

dat is all

[thefleshlight]

anyone done an international trade? i really want to pull the trigger...but is it worth it? its a dutchbrah...

fittin to get some blabaer?

Funky Buddha doing German Chocolate Cake growler fill tomorrow.

Nice. Get it

[joedirt87]

Funky Buddha doing German Chocolate Cake growler fill tomorrow.


Hoping i can make it for this as it is still my favorite of their brews

They are suppose to be releasing Zen Session IPA and Last Snow porter in bottles this month but I think its gonna be delayed. Month is just about over and no word on it. Not surprising with all the prep they did for MBCP.

[kr1s]

the vanilla rye hype train is still taking passengers...

Drove 30 min across town to the ghetto east side this weekend to try VR and was disappointed I did.

[TheFugitive]

fugi brah - might have to send a bottle of this to you.

it's only been conditioning for a week, but this bish has a strong dank streak in it. Nelson, Simcoe, Mosaic and Columbus. Dry as fukk Rye IPA, 7.1%

Color looks amazing!

[thefleshlight]

They are suppose to be releasing Zen Session IPA and Last Snow porter in bottles this month but I think its gonna be delayed. Month is just about over and no word on it. Not surprising with all the prep they did for MBCP.

They're also releasing BA Last Snow in bottles later too.

[Tbillionaire]

fugi brah - might have to send a bottle of this to you.

it's only been conditioning for a week, but this bish has a strong dank streak in it. Nelson, Simcoe, Mosaic and Columbus. Dry as fukk Rye IPA, 7.1%

[IMG]http://i57.tinypic.com/2cerplz.jpg[/IG]

Ugh... chill haze, do not want...


jk looks fuarking juicy, wood chug

[thefleshlight]

Ugh... chill haze, do not want...


jk looks fuarking juicy, wood chug

I was about to reach through the internet and backhand you with my used mechanix gloves...

[jamm!n]

^haha

Ugh... chill haze, do not want...


jk looks fuarking juicy, wood chug

The haze is actually from the 4.5oz of dry hops and rye/flaked rye (lots of suspended protons)

[DasBiceps]

Nice. Get it

Just spent money on crown today, trying to find out price of it but looks doubtful

[thefleshlight]

Just spent money on crown today, trying to find out price of it but looks doubtful

crown? as in that shytty cananannandian whiskey?

y u do dat?