abortion. for or against it?

[InstantLoser]

Do you hold this position prior to being classified as a fetus, during the embryonic stage?

If she's pregnant, she's pregnant with a baby. It's not like you don't know what a pregnant woman produces.. there's no question that if left alone (again, as previously stated, assuming no natural pregnancy complications), 9 months after becoming pregnant that a woman will give birth to a human child. It doesn't matter what developmental phases that child goes through prior to delivery.. it's still a child.

[Hesher]

Lets establish a simple logical argument:

1. Abortion is morally ambiguous.
2. Other people having an abortion has no affect on your own life.
3. You do not have the right to deny another human being a right when it is (a)morally ambiguous and (b)has no possibility of affecting your own life.

People could say the same about child abuse. There are plenty of people that think it's morally okay to hit kids. They aren't my parents so it doesn't impact me.

[Hesher]

I think you're kind of a dick if you have an 8 month abortion, but i fully support its legality.

Why do you support this:

[mynameisuntz]

If she's pregnant, she's pregnant with a baby. It's not like you don't know what a pregnant woman produces.. there's no question that if left alone (again, as previously stated, assuming no natural pregnancy complications), 9 months after becoming pregnant that a woman will give birth to a human child. It doesn't matter what developmental phases that child goes through prior to delivery.. it's still a child.

But then you realize this argument does in fact draw a dichotomy?

"If left alone, then it will become a child." This implies one entity for the "if" portion of the statement, and another at the "then" portion. This creates a distinction, which starts to create doubt in the notion that there isn't some form of dichotomy.

Importantly, at the time of an abortion (which, for me, I would make the cut-off pre-brain activity), an embryo does not share the defining characteristics of human children as we know them: brain activity, physical features, etc. I agree with you at a certain point (e.g., abortion at 6 months), but there are developmental cut-offs here which I think you might be overlooking.

[emilylie0712]

Lets establish a simple logical argument:

1. Abortion is morally ambiguous.
2. Other people having an abortion has no affect on your own life.
3. You do not have the right to deny another human being a right when it is (a)morally ambiguous and (b)has no possibility of affecting your own life.

1.Abortion means someone kills human being through a ambiguous way
2.Abortion is harmful to the body,but someone just thinks that it make any sense
3.People should take personal responsibility for their actions. If they choose to have sex, they should utilize protective measures.

[brosenthal91]

I think you're kind of a dick if you have an 8 month abortion, but i fully support its legality.

Why? Is there a distinction between the moment a baby leaves the uterus and comes into the world?

At 8 months a baby could be born and go on to live a full life. How can you justify aborting it?

[InstantLoser]

But then you realize this argument does in fact draw a dichotomy?

"If left alone, then it will become a child." But at the time of an abortion (which, for me, I would make the cut-off pre-brain activity), it does not share the defining characteristics of human children as we know them: brain activity, physical features, etc.

No, there is no dichotomy. You acknowledge that pregnant women produce children. Preventing the birth is killing the child. If she's pregnant, she's pregnant with a baby. Period.

[vsportsguy]

1. Abortion is not morally ambiguous

You have lost all credibility right here. This entire thread is a debate filled with 'when does a human life begin?'. Your opinion is not the only one.

Some people believe it becomes a human at conception, some believe it becomes a human somewhere along it's development, some believe it is not a human until it is born. The only truth we can all agree upon is that it is a human after being born. Before that, it is ambiguous.

The fact that you disagree is irrelevant, all that matters is if you can admit there is a difference in opinion. If you can't even admit that other people have different opinions, you have lost all credibility.

I think you're kind of a dick if you have an 8 month abortion, but i fully support its legality.

So much this.

"I may not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."

[InstantLoser]

You have lost all credibility right here. This entire thread is a debate filled with 'when does a human life begin?'. Your opinion is not the only one.

Some people believe it becomes a human at conception, some believe it becomes a human somewhere along it's development, some believe it is not a human until it is born. The only truth we can all agree upon is that it is a human after being born. Before that, it is ambiguous.

The fact that you disagree is irrelevant, all that matters is if you can admit there is a difference in opinion. If you can't even admit that other people have different opinions, you have lost all credibility

Some people think murder is ok, or they wouldn't do it. Some people think stealing is ok. Just because there's a difference of opinion there doesn't mean those people aren't wrong. Some people think mullets look good.

There is no ambiguity except in the minds of those who want a convenient way out of accepting the responsibility of their actions, because that's what abortion is.

[Nelly87]

This is always such a heated topic/debate.

I believe entirely on situation.

Young teen couples - look for adoption first. There are people out there who are not able to have children and pay lots of money to raise a child in a good home. If the girl doesn't want to go through with it or can't find people to adopt, well if it is early enough then it is entirely up to the couple.

A baby factory - a girl who just pumps out loads of kids with no intent on raising them or being a true parent. She should get fixed, however adoption is my first choice then abortion.

Rape - abortion first choice then adoption second.

Just my opinion... guess you would say I am pro choice.

[mynameisuntz]

No, there is no dichotomy. You acknowledge that pregnant women produce children. Preventing the birth is killing the child. If she's pregnant, she's pregnant with a baby. Period.

I would disagree with the general line of reasoning in that preventing the birth is not killing a child within a certain period of time. Before 8 weeks, the embryo is not even discernible from embryos of other species. It does not have any features that make it unique to humans. No semblance of sentience, pain, feeling, cognition, etc. even at the most rudimentary level.

There is a very clear, biological difference between this:


and a human baby.

Technically men who masturbate and waste sperm for non-reproductive reasons are killing off potential life, too. If we're looking at life as one big timeline, then the notion that life must start at conception is an arbitrary one. Why not one step back?

[P3nguin]

Pro choice for early abortions
last thing this world needs is more orphans, kids with terrible upbringing, etc

[InstantLoser]

I would disagree with the general line of reasoning in that preventing the birth is not killing a child within a certain period of time. Before 8 weeks, the embryo is not even discernible from embryos of other species. It does not have any features that make it unique to humans. No semblance of sentience, pain, feeling, cognition, etc. even at the most rudimentary level.

There is a very clear, biological difference between this:


and a human baby.

Technically men who masturbate and waste sperm for non-reproductive reasons are killing off potential life, too. If we're looking at life as one big timeline, then the notion that life must start at conception is an arbitrary one. Why not one step back?

Once the sperm and the egg are combined, it's game over. It doesn't matter what stage of development it's in. The human life goes through lots of stages in development, growth, eventual decline, and finally death. At all stages you are still a human being.

[VANISM]

Abortion is murder plain and simple.

[Omnivium]

Against. Anyone who is pro abortion has no respect for human life. Brb the world is "overpopulated" so it's ok to kill our kids. If you don't want kids here's a thought: don't have unprotected sex. If you get raped: morning after pill. If you somehow get pregnant anyway: adoption.

Everyone should be given a chance at life. Not mutilated and killed before they even leave the womb just because it's more convenient for you. You abortion people make me sick.

[mynameisuntz]

Once the sperm and the egg are combined, it's game over. It doesn't matter what stage of development it's in. The human life goes through lots of stages in development, growth, eventual decline, and finally death. At all stages you are still a human being.

But why is conception the absolute, inarguable cut-off? Sperm has a specific function, and when it is used without interference, it yields human life (or the potential for it). Why isn't masturbating viewed the same way as aborting an embryo that is pre-fetal? Both are, by very definition, the waste of potential human life.

Also, does the fact that the point prevalence of miscarriage is 15-25% have any bearing on your argument? You are saying that, left unattended, conception --> human life. Except for up to 1/4th of pregnant women. Doesn't this poke somewhat of a hole in your argument?

[holtmcg]

Against. Anyone who is pro abortion has no respect for human life. Brb the world is "overpopulated" so it's ok to kill our kids. If you don't want kids here's a thought: don't have unprotected sex. If you get raped: morning after pill. If you somehow get pregnant anyway: adoption.

Everyone should be given a chance at life. Not mutilated and killed before they even leave the womb just because it's more convenient for you. You abortion people make me sick.

I say the same thing for pro life people. So selfish as to bring a kid into the world only for it to live a terrible life. *Shakes head*

[vsportsguy]

Some people think murder is ok, or they wouldn't do it. Some people think stealing is ok. Just because there's a difference of opinion there doesn't mean those people aren't wrong. Some people think mullets look good.

There is no ambiguity except in the minds of those who want a convenient way out of accepting the responsibility of their actions, because that's what abortion is.

Conversing with people such as yourself make my fukin head hurt. Murder and theft are universally accepted as wrong. Just because something is wrong doesn't mean people wont still do it... Both murder and theft affect other human beings as well. Abortion is not universally accepted as wrong and does not affect other human beings. How could anybody debate those facts?

Have a good day. I can't listen to your stupidity any longer.

[Hesher]

I say the same thing for pro life people. So selfish as to bring a kid into the world only for it to live a terrible life. *Shakes head*

What's terrible for you is better than what many will experience in this world. Should we just kill all the people in lesser developed countries to spare them further misery?

[InstantLoser]

But why is conception the absolute, inarguable cut-off? Sperm has a specific function, and when it is used without interference, it yields human life (or the potential for it). Why isn't masturbating viewed the same way as aborting an embryo that is pre-fetal? Both are, by very definition, the waste of potential human life.

Also, does the fact that the point prevalence of miscarriage is 15-25% have any bearing on your argument? You are saying that, left unattended, conception --> human life. Except for up to 1/4th of pregnant women. Doesn't this poke somewhat of a hole in your argument?

A sperm by itself is just biological material. An egg by itself is the same. Neither have any chance of becoming humans on their own. You KNOW this stuff, why are you arguing against it? I already covered your 1/4 argument also by saying that natural complications are the exception to pregnancy = baby, and are beyond our control (unless medically bypassed).

I'll say it again:

A pregnant woman, barring any natural complications that result in the pregnancy "ending itself" will produce a baby after 9 months. The developmental stages from the point of conception up until the baby exits the womb are irrelevant. It's a baby at each stage.

[Kurial]

I'm against it. It's a life we're talking about and I don't see it as an opinion tbh.

[entropy1]

im undecided too, on one hand I'm pro killing babies, but on the other, I'm against giving women a choice

[InstantLoser]

Conversing with people such as yourself make my fukin head hurt. Murder and theft are universally accepted as wrong. Just because something is wrong doesn't mean people wont still do it... Both murder and theft affect other human beings as well. Abortion is not universally accepted as wrong and does not affect other human beings. How could anybody debate those facts?

Have a good day. I can't listen to your stupidity any longer.

Right, murder is universally accepted as wrong. So why is it universally wrong except when the person being murdered hasn't been born yet? You haven't stated any facts, only your own warped opinions.

[holtmcg]

What's terrible for you is better than what many will experience in this world. Should we just kill all the people in lesser developed countries to spare them further misery?

Just stop. Seriously. Just stop. My brain function is slowing down reading you right wing conservative posts. Selfish, selfish, selfish. Absolutely embarrassing to say the very least.

[mynameisuntz]

A sperm by itself is just biological material. An egg by itself is the same. Neither have any chance of becoming humans on their own. You KNOW this stuff, why are you arguing against it?

An embryo doesn't have a chance of becoming a human on its own, either.

I already covered your 1/4 argument also by saying that natural complications are the exception to pregnancy = baby, and are beyond our control (unless medically bypassed).

I'll say it again:

A pregnant woman, barring any natural complications that result in the pregnancy "ending itself" will produce a baby after 9 months. The developmental stages from the point of conception up until the baby exits the womb are irrelevant. It's a baby at each stage.

I just don't think there's anything close to a consensus on this, from a biological standpoint. How are we even defining human life here? Just, living cells in a clump? Showing unique human abilities or physical features?

[InstantLoser]

Just stop. Seriously. Just stop. My brain function is slowing down reading you right wing conservative posts. Selfish, selfish, selfish. Absolutely embarrassing to say the very least.

Why do you liberal *******s claim to champion the rights of minorities.. the oppressed.. women.. so open minded and "tolerant'.. yet the one group of people who absolutely can't defend themselves? Murder them all! It's a womans' right to choose if her baby lives or dies! Selfish? You mean like it's being selfish to abdicate all responsibility for ones actions? That IS the liberal way after all.

An embryo doesn't have a chance of becoming a human on its own, either.

Ah that old chestnut. Yes it does. It'll do a perfectly fine job of coming out as a baby (again... barring the unknowable natural complications, or a trip down a flight of stairs...) if someone doesn't kill it first.

[mynameisuntz]

Ah that old chestnut. Yes it does. It'll do a perfectly fine job of coming out as a baby (again... barring the unknowable natural complications, or a trip down a flight of stairs...) if someone doesn't kill it first.

Not on its own, no. It is, in the most technical sense, a parasite. I still just fail to see why conception = human life, but the prerequisite cells prior to that do not constitute such. Again, biologically speaking, this seems a bit arbitrary.

[Omnivium]

I say the same thing for pro life people. So selfish as to bring a kid into the world only for it to live a terrible life. *Shakes head*

What kind of logic is this? You *think* a kid will have a bad life so now you have the right to kill it? Why don't we go kill everyone who has a bad life because they have a bad life anyway so it's ok. Do you see how stupid and wrong that is?

[InstantLoser]

Not on its own, no. It is, in the most technical sense, a parasite. I still just fail to see why conception = human life, but the prerequisite cells prior to that do not constitute such. Again, biologically speaking, this seems a bit arbitrary.

But you agree you have to define it as a human at some point. Why would you arbitrarily choose NOT to define that time at the point the life was actually created? The only reason would be so you could marginalize it, so you could end its' existence without feeling bad about it. If you have to acknowledge it as a fellow human being, you might be forced (possibly by law?) to at least think twice before killing it.

[durfydoo]

im undecided too, on one hand I'm pro killing babies, but on the other, I'm against giving women a choice

Lol you people are horrible.