Have any of you ever had a client ask about your certification or education?

[WoofieNugget]

With all of the bickering that goes on around here about what certification is better and whether or not you need a degree or diploma to be a trainer, I thought about it and realized that in my 15 years doing this, I can't remember a prospective client EVER asking about my qualifications besides mentioning the list I have on my web site and stating I obviously have a lot of courses under my belt (which I do, along with a degree and a diploma).

I'd be curious to know if any of the experienced trainers here have ever had a client actually say "you don't have a degree therefore I'm going with someone else" or "you're certified with ACE? What a joke - I'll find another trainer."

My point is that the papers on the wall and knowledge gets you so far in terms of employment, but it really doesn't matter at all to the people that you prospect or are trying to help. Is it important that you have it? Yes - because it makes you better at your job and you should theoretically be able to help more people more effectively. Trust me, I wish more people vetted their trainers properly (I just did a podcast rant about this last week) but it simply doesn't happen.

[penafitness]

You've been in the industry fifteen years and you still don't understand? Credentials are not for clients, they are for employers. No professional, in any industry, has clients asking about his/her credentials. When you take your car in to get serviced, do you ask the mechanic if he's ASE certified or whatever company provides auto credentials where your from? When you go to the doctor do you ask if he graduated from Harvard or Oxford?

Dumb question.

[WoofieNugget]

You've been in the industry fifteen years and you still don't understand? Credentials are not for clients, they are for employers. No professional, in any industry, has clients asking about his/her credentials. When you take your car in to get serviced, do you ask the mechanic if he's ASE certified or whatever company provides auto credentials where your from? When you go to the doctor do you ask if he graduated from Harvard or Oxford?

Dumb question.

Lol. When I go to a doctor, I make sure that they actually have a medical degree. When I see an accountant, I make sure they are a CPA or whatever type of accountant I am looking for. If I take my car to a mechanic, yes - I would probably make sure either they had an industry credential and weren't just operating out of their garage.

I guess clients don't matter - we shouldn't get educated in order to deal with them better. I'd better make sure that my degree makes me employable, even though I work for myself. As usual, maybe you could read the question, although if you don't actually work as a trainer or have little experience in the field then you will have a hard time answering.

[penafitness]

Lol. When I go to a doctor, I make sure that they actually have a medical degree. When I see an accountant, I make sure they are a CPA or whatever type of accountant I am looking for. If I take my car to a mechanic, yes - I would probably make sure either they had an industry credential and weren't just operating out of their garage.

I guess clients don't matter - we shouldn't get educated in order to deal with them better. I'd better make sure that my degree makes me employable, even though I work for myself. As usual, maybe you could read the question, although if you don't actually work as a trainer or have little experience in the field then you will have a hard time answering.

You're full of crap. In fact, you don't even ask when your life is on the line. When you board a plane, you don't even speak to the pilot, let alone ask to see his credentials. When you take a shuttle service to the airport or catch a cab in Vegas, you don't ask to see the guys drivers liscence. Clients assume you're qualified if you have been hired by the company, even more so if you own the company.

It's a stupid question and if you're 'ranting' about this and staying up late trying to understand why you wasted so much time and money on various credentials, then I feel bad for you but there's a reason why you still don't get it. Ironically, it's the same reason why you won't figure that out either.

[penafitness]

FYI, you don't need an accountant (with their many types) when you are not earning a six figure salary as we have already discussed. Stop posing.

[MkADcision]

The questions I get asked more when working with someone new is "how long have you been doing this for?" and "where have you worked before?".
Most people at the end of the day are concerned with if you can get them results and if you are someone they want to spend time with.

[RamsdenF]

My point is that the papers on the wall and knowledge gets you so far in terms of employment, but it really doesn't matter at all to the people that you prospect or are trying to help. Is it important that you have it? Yes - because it makes you better at your job and you should theoretically be able to help more people more effectively. Trust me, I wish more people vetted their trainers properly (I just did a podcast rant about this last week) but it simply doesn't happen.

PenaFitness is spot on.

Getting a degree has nothing to do with trying to "impress" a client or do gain approval from them. It's about radically changing this industry, because we have a lot of "pollution" and it needs cleaned up. The overwhelming majority of personal trainers are uneducated and unqualified. This industry accepts pathetically poor standards for employment. I have my own business and will only hire those with REAL QUALIFICATIONS.....not because they have the bare minimum(a crap cert). If you are actually concerned with this industry Woofie, you would hold yourself to the same standards (if you own a business).

Too many trainers care about income($$$) and not enough about actually producing results.

[WoofieNugget]

PenaFitness is spot on.

Getting a degree has nothing to do with trying to "impress" a client or do gain approval from them. It's about radically changing this industry, because we have a lot of "pollution" and it needs cleaned up. The overwhelming majority of personal trainers are uneducated and unqualified. This industry accepts pathetically poor standards for employment. I have my own business and will only hire those with REAL QUALIFICATIONS.....not because they have the bare minimum(a crap cert). If you are actually concerned with this industry Woofie, you would hold yourself to the same standards (if you own a business).

Too many trainers care about income($$$) and not enough about actually producing results.

I do hold myself to those standards - but then your final sentence begs the question does someone who has a degree necessarily produce better results for their clients? I've worked with people with Masters' Degrees who couldn't teach a bench press to save their life or provide any actual hands on knowledge about how to coach properly. We're on the same page about the industry - it should be regulated like it is in other countries.

Again, my question was simply if anyone with any experience in the industry has ever had a client either go with them or turn them down due to their credentials?

[RamsdenF]

I do hold myself to those standards - but then your final sentence begs the question does someone who has a degree necessarily produce better results for their clients? I've worked with people with Masters' Degrees who couldn't teach a bench press to save their life or provide any actual hands on knowledge about how to coach properly. We're on the same page about the industry - it should be regulated like it is in other countries.

We have the power to regulate it ourselves....I'm not a big government type. Don't need them telling me what's best.

We just have to hire qualified individuals and squash those who are not. A bit ruthless but that's how it has to be in my opinion.

On your point about college.....majority of the time someone with a degree is going to be more knowledgeable than someone without one. It's not complicated. Of course like you mention, that person has to be able to use the knowledge....but just having it....is a huge leg up.

Again, my question was simply if anyone with any experience in the industry has ever had a client either go with them or turn them down due to their credentials?

Answer is going to be an emphatic no.

[penafitness]

Agree. The answer is no. Everyone is going to say no. It's non existent in any industry.

[penafitness]

The questions I get asked more when working with someone new is "how long have you been doing this for?" and "where have you worked before?".
Most people at the end of the day are concerned with if you can get them results and if you are someone they want to spend time with.

This is true too.

[ptfitness4life]

PenaFitness is spot on.

Getting a degree has nothing to do with trying to "impress" a client or do gain approval from them. It's about radically changing this industry, because we have a lot of "pollution" and it needs cleaned up. The overwhelming majority of personal trainers are uneducated and unqualified. This industry accepts pathetically poor standards for employment. I have my own business and will only hire those with REAL QUALIFICATIONS.....not because they have the bare minimum(a crap cert). If you are actually concerned with this industry Woofie, you would hold yourself to the same standards (if you own a business).

Too many trainers care about income($$$) and not enough about actually producing results.

I can not get past the fact that for someone who is adamant about a college education and cleaning up the industry and raising standards you post ads looking to employ trainers who must drive their own cars to peoples homes for up to 40 minutes ONE WAY and then another 40 minutes the other way and with all their top notch, super educated , college expertise, you'll dole out a measly $20 an hour(maybe..unless you hire them on a trial basis and then you'll pay them even less).

I can't imagine any highly qualified trainer ever going for that.

So although you demand the best you pay them as if they possess a fly by night cert like Action or something low rent.

And THAT is really what is wrong with this industry, we are held up to be part of this health continuum, and then get insulted by this laughable rate of pay.

Demand the best and work for a pittance. Truly disgusting.

[Footballa_19]

I get your point woofie, no one has ever given much thought about any cert or degree I had, but it is important imo to have them, not necessary tho. A lot of trainers have experience > education, and do a great job in the industry. Certs are a complete wash, as long as you have one, it doesn't matter, I think the Degree part of the discussion is the more interesting part. I have hired multiple trainers with BS's in Exercise Science, and they had never exercised in their life, and they didn't last long. This is why I've implemented a long transition period of hand's-on training/shadowing for new hires. I have a B.S. myself and I will almost always prefer they do have it, but it isn't a requirement to be hired. There is more than enough information and credible coaches in the world to be successful, as long as a trainer is willing to work to learn and be coached.

Without getting into the nitpicky, every interview one of the last thing I do is I simply ask a trainer to put me through a short workout, and I ask them questions that a client would, and watch how they present themselves throughout the workout. Can they explain complex ideas simply? Keep attention to the client? coach a squat/pushup ect. correctly? Are they still relaxed enough to make it fun? These are all qualities my successful trainers have, and not all of them needed degrees to do it.

[penafitness]

I get your point woofie, no one has ever given much thought about any cert or degree I had, but it is important imo to have them, not necessary tho. A lot of trainers have experience > education, and do a great job in the industry. Certs are a complete wash, as long as you have one, it doesn't matter, I think the Degree part of the discussion is the more interesting part. I have hired multiple trainers with BS's in Exercise Science, and they had never exercised in their life, and they didn't last long. This is why I've implemented a long transition period of hand's-on training/shadowing for new hires. I have a B.S. myself and I will almost always prefer they do have it, but it isn't a requirement to be hired. There is more than enough information and credible coaches in the world to be successful, as long as a trainer is willing to work to learn and be coached.

Without getting into the nitpicky, every interview one of the last thing I do is I simply ask a trainer to put me through a short workout, and I ask them questions that a client would, and watch how they present themselves throughout the workout. Can they explain complex ideas simply? Keep attention to the client? coach a squat/pushup ect. correctly? Are they still relaxed enough to make it fun? These are all qualities my successful trainers have, and not all of them needed degrees to do it.

The question was about client inquires regarding credentials. No one is debating the need for high quality professionals. The bottom line is, people who seek prossional assistance do not request proof of expertise. No one is suggesting they shouldn't... They just don't. Rambling on and on about is pointless.

[RamsdenF]

I can not get past the fact

No one is asking you to. Your entire post is irrelevant to the topic....but alas

that for someone who is adamant about a college education and cleaning up the industry and raising standards you post ads looking to employ trainers who must drive their own cars to peoples homes for up to 40 minutes ONE WAY and then another 40 minutes the other way

I know....ain't I such a bad person for making someone drive their own car to work.....sheesh I just give myself chills.

and with all their top notch, super educated , college expertise, you'll dole out a measly $20 an hour(maybe..unless you hire them on a trial basis and then you'll pay them even less).

Lol....hey pal....any idea what the average personal trainer hourly rate is? Apparently not.

And THAT is really what is wrong with this industry, we are held up to be part of this health continuum, and then get insulted by this laughable rate of pay.

Demand the best and work for a pittance. Truly disgusting.

You sound like a loser. Whining and crying about pay when people are struggling just to find ANY employment.

It's a part time job for a new business hiring its first employee....not a full time executive position with full benefits and a nice match 401k.

[ptfitness4life]

No one is asking you to. Your entire post is irrelevant to the topic....but alas


I know....ain't I such a bad person for making someone drive their own car to work.....sheesh I just give myself chills.

Lol....hey pal....any idea what the average personal trainer hourly rate is? Apparently not.

You sound like a loser. Whining and crying about pay when people are struggling just to find ANY employment.

It's a part time job for a new business hiring its first employee....not a full time executive position with full benefits and a nice match 401k.

What a joke you are.

Posting here about how this industry needs higher standards, browbeating young guys about how unless they get a college education then they water down "your" field, how American Council On Exercise is a joke, how this personal training field should "raise the bar" YET when it comes down to it and you are in a position to make a difference..you treat and pay employees with all the disdain and low balling as many big time gyms.
What a hypocrite.
LOL, Yeah any self respecting college educated trainer will drive on hour and twenty minutes a day for you for less than $20.00 per hour...less the cost of the gas...less the tolls..less the taxes.. um...er... this highly sought after trainer will be netting $10 an hour!!!!!

You are a fake, phony and a fraud..a charlatan who would take advantage of a college kid who probably is in debt to pay off his education and when all said and done..pay him crap.

Lol....hey pal....any idea what the average personal trainer hourly rate is?

I thought you were looking for the BEST, not average.

Whining and crying about pay when people are struggling just to find ANY employment.

Nice attitude.."they'll take what ever I give em and like it, desperate peons".

Yeah guy..you are really doing your part to help the image of personal trainers.

[RamsdenF]

What a joke you are.

Posting here about how this industry needs higher standards, browbeating young guys about how unless they get a college education then they water down "your" field, how American Council On Exercise is a joke, how this personal training field should "raise the bar" YET when it comes down to it and you are in a position to make a difference..you treat and pay employees with all the disdain and low balling as many big time gyms.
What a hypocrite.
LOL, Yeah any self respecting college educated trainer will drive on hour and twenty minutes a day for you for less than $20.00 per hour...less the cost of the gas...less the tolls..less the taxes.. um...er... this highly sought after trainer will be netting $10 an hour!!!!!

You are a fake, phony and a fraud..a charlatan who would take advantage of a college kid who probably is in debt to pay off his education and when all said and done..pay him crap.



I thought you were looking for the BEST, not average.


Nice attitude.."they'll take what ever I give em and like it, desperate peons".

Yeah guy..you are really doing your part to help the image of personal trainers.

What's the name of your business or for whoever you work for?

[jkdwarrior]

at most had a client ask if I was certified but that was it didn't ask to see it even who I was certified by

[FyrFytr998]

I get your point woofie, no one has ever given much thought about any cert or degree I had, but it is important imo to have them, not necessary tho. A lot of trainers have experience > education, and do a great job in the industry. Certs are a complete wash, as long as you have one, it doesn't matter, I think the Degree part of the discussion is the more interesting part. I have hired multiple trainers with BS's in Exercise Science, and they had never exercised in their life, and they didn't last long. This is why I've implemented a long transition period of hand's-on training/shadowing for new hires. I have a B.S. myself and I will almost always prefer they do have it, but it isn't a requirement to be hired. There is more than enough information and credible coaches in the world to be successful, as long as a trainer is willing to work to learn and be coached.

Without getting into the nitpicky, every interview one of the last thing I do is I simply ask a trainer to put me through a short workout, and I ask them questions that a client would, and watch how they present themselves throughout the workout. Can they explain complex ideas simply? Keep attention to the client? coach a squat/pushup ect. correctly? Are they still relaxed enough to make it fun? These are all qualities my successful trainers have, and not all of them needed degrees to do it.

Educated and wise. How refreshing. I commend you for being able to look past the surface and let a prospective employee show you what they are capable of doing.

[Footballa_19]

Educated and wise. How refreshing. I commend you for being able to look past the surface and let a prospective employee show you what they are capable of doing.

thanks, appreciate it, you never know who will surprise you.

[ptplatform]

One of my favorite quotes. "People Don't care how much you know, they want to know how much you care"

with that said it will get you the client 80-90% of the time. today I had someone ask me about my credentials before I met with them.

[penafitness]

One of my favorite quotes. "People Don't care how much you know, they want to know how much you care"

with that said it will get you the client 80-90% of the time. today I had someone ask me about my credentials before I met with them.

And you could have told her you had an exercise physiology degree from UCLA, that would have been the end of it. She would not have insisted that you borrow it from your mom's house to bring in to show her. Or you could have said you were third tier KTSR certified by the American Institute of Anatomy (this is not a real thing)and she would have been impressed enough to meet with you to close the deal. Don't fool yourself, your credentials mean nothing to anyone but yourself.

[ChessGuy]

I've had 2 out of two dozen clients in the past two years. So yes, some do ask.

Edit:

One of them put me through the ringer. She asked me not only which cert I had, but why I got it. She had been on the Internet doing research. She got charged the most.

[NorwichGrad]

In my 6 years of training / coaching, no athlete has ever asked for my credentials.

I’m only participating in this thread because I saw the evil word ‘regulation.’

Just some points I want to bring up:

1. The greater the freedom, the greater the wealth. The greater the government, the greater the poverty. This is a historic and empirical fact.

2. The purpose of government is twofold: internal and external defense. Period.

3. In a free society, customers have the freedom to choose. Customers have the freedom to vote with their feet.

4. Education should not be a period of our lives. Education should be a lifelong quest.


5. There are only two professions in this world where if the ‘professional’ screws up, it could literally result in loss of lives. Those two professions are: medical and engineering. And no, personal trainers are NOT medical professionals.

Have any of you ever thought why the best inventions and innovations came from free societies? The internet, cars, planes, software, to name a few were invented in free countries. Think about that for a moment. See Point 1 above.

People are so quick to say ‘the government should regulate this and that.’ Have you ever thought for a moment that the reason why America went from being a once great Republic (as intended by our Founding Fathers) to a socialist nation is because of government interventions? We the People have surrendered our civic responsibilities. The Founding Documents (Declaration of Independence, Bill of Rights, Constitution, Federalist Papers) were written in FEAR of government. Now we worship government. See Point 2.

Why would any of you want the government to regulate our industry, if they could not even balance the budget? The national debt exceeds the GDP because of their overspending, and now you want them to tell us how to train our athletes? Think about that.

Yes, the fitness industry is highly UNREGULATED. Some trainers who are ‘credentialists’ may see this as a threat. But me personally, I see it as a GREAT opportunity.

Let’s take CrossFit for example. I am not a fan of their programming (or lack thereof). I’m not a hater of CF. They do have some bad stuff. But let’s look at the GREAT stuff CF has done for the unregulated industry:

a) They have made exercise fun.
b) They have fed a lot of athletes into specific and purists sports like weightlifting or powerlifting, which were dying before CF came along.
c) They have produced industries like selling bumper plates, bars, and other equipment. Roguefitness for example.

Did CF ‘invent’ anything? No, of course not. We know that circuit training has been around for decades. But CF has innovated the industry as a result of freedom. See Point 1. I mean sure, we’ve never heard of SLAP tears or rhabdo before CF came along, but has CF ever killed anybody? See Point 5.

We don’t need no stinkin’ government intervention thru regulations. We trainers / coaches, We the People, can self-regulate. If an athlete is not happy with the results, then he / she can go elsewhere. See Point 3. If a gym owner is not happy with a trainer, the owner can fire that trainer. See Point 3 again.

Let’s not get all wrapped up on which certification has a bigger penis. Most people stop learning / reading after they get their credentials. There is a big difference in getting formal schooling versus receiving a self-directed education. . So what are you gonna do if you get a PhD in personal training? See Point 4.

Continue to be the best trainer you can be by making continuous learning a habit. Focus on your athletes. Help them achieve their goals. Our athletes are our TRUE credentials, NOT some piece of paper dictated by the government to have.

[ChessGuy]

In my 6 years of training / coaching, no athlete has ever asked for my credentials.

I’m only participating in this thread because I saw the evil word ‘regulation.’

Just some points I want to bring up:

1. The greater the freedom, the greater the wealth. The greater the government, the greater the poverty. This is a historic and empirical fact.

2. The purpose of government is twofold: internal and external defense. Period.

3. In a free society, customers have the freedom to choose. Customers have the freedom to vote with their feet.

4. Education should not be a period of our lives. Education should be a lifelong quest.


5. There are only two professions in this world where if the ‘professional’ screws up, it could literally result in loss of lives. Those two professions are: medical and engineering. And no, personal trainers are NOT medical professionals.

Have any of you ever thought why the best inventions and innovations came from free societies? The internet, cars, planes, software, to name a few were invented in free countries. Think about that for a moment. See Point 1 above.

People are so quick to say ‘the government should regulate this and that.’ Have you ever thought for a moment that the reason why America went from being a once great Republic (as intended by our Founding Fathers) to a socialist nation is because of government interventions? We the People have surrendered our civic responsibilities. The Founding Documents (Declaration of Independence, Bill of Rights, Constitution, Federalist Papers) were written in FEAR of government. Now we worship government. See Point 2.

Why would any of you want the government to regulate our industry, if they could not even balance the budget? The national debt exceeds the GDP because of their overspending, and now you want them to tell us how to train our athletes? Think about that.

Yes, the fitness industry is highly UNREGULATED. Some trainers who are ‘credentialists’ may see this as a threat. But me personally, I see it as a GREAT opportunity.

Let’s take CrossFit for example. I am not a fan of their programming (or lack thereof). I’m not a hater of CF. They do have some bad stuff. But let’s look at the GREAT stuff CF has done for the unregulated industry:

a) They have made exercise fun.
b) They have fed a lot of athletes into specific and purists sports like weightlifting or powerlifting, which were dying before CF came along.
c) They have produced industries like selling bumper plates, bars, and other equipment. Roguefitness for example.

Did CF ‘invent’ anything? No, of course not. We know that circuit training has been around for decades. But CF has innovated the industry as a result of freedom. See Point 1. I mean sure, we’ve never heard of SLAP tears or rhabdo before CF came along, but has CF ever killed anybody? See Point 5.

We don’t need no stinkin’ government intervention thru regulations. We trainers / coaches, We the People, can self-regulate. If an athlete is not happy with the results, then he / she can go elsewhere. See Point 3. If a gym owner is not happy with a trainer, the owner can fire that trainer. See Point 3 again.

Let’s not get all wrapped up on which certification has a bigger penis. Most people stop learning / reading after they get their credentials. There is a big difference in getting formal schooling versus receiving a self-directed education. . So what are you gonna do if you get a PhD in personal training? See Point 4.

Continue to be the best trainer you can be by making continuous learning a habit. Focus on your athletes. Help them achieve their goals. Our athletes are our TRUE credentials, NOT some piece of paper dictated by the government to have.

There are two more professions where a screw up can mean the loss of lives: military and law enforcement.

[NorwichGrad]

There are two more professions where a screw up can mean the loss of lives: military and law enforcement.

YES! Thanks. You're absolutely right! I should have known that. I served in the Army.