Klokov Bar & Plates from Again Faster

[morebarbell]

I just don't think we know enough about this bar yet. Once we hear a review, things could change.

You're totally right. I think I know what to expect but I wouldn't really know unless I see the bar. ...and I'll probably never see the bar since I don't intend to buy it. I don't remember if I read one or both of the reviews. Iirc, they were given the bars for free and I couldn't take their reviews seriously. They should have sent the bar to GI.

your voice of reason is not welcome here.

LOL

I agree about the rubber band groove, but I think the bearings are a big selling point. Even though most people don't need bearings, the closest decent bearing bar is $200 more expensive than this. It's already about half the price ($320) of Rogue's chrome bearing bar ($635 polished chrome)...I'm not sure why you think that AF needs to cut costs and not Rogue.

I don't have inside information but from what I can tell, Rogue is selling well. They don't need to reduce prices. A foreign made competitor will need to undercut them. I think that the bearing version has a market but a cheaper bushing version with the same steel would have a much larger market.

[GarageIron]

They should have sent the bar to GI.

Haha.. I would just try to bend it. I've had more than one offer for a free bar to test, and every time I tell them this they never send one!

[deiphid]

What is the country of origin?

A lot of crossfit stores are popping up with mostly foreign made products to compete with Rogue and Pendlay selling USA-made products (and some foreign made products). And in my opinion, the tensile strength jumps seems to have become a bit of a marketing game. I'd rather buy a made in the USA Pendlay bar than a bar with a higher tensile strength that's made in China or Taiwan...not sure if that is the case here but I suspect that it is...

Also, I thought Klokov did a good job with the video but I doubt his involvement was more than superficial. A lot of companies buy endorsements.

I bought a mini deadlift jack from Again Faster and was disappointed. If I had known it was made in China then I would have ordered one from Rogue or West Cary instead. The Again Faster jack was heavily rusted and they painted right over the rust scale. Although China and Taiwan can make very high quality products that's not why most companies go overseas for manufacturing. Often they want cheap.

You are right that China and Taiwan can produce quality products. When it comes to barbells, Taiwan is particularly significant - http://www.gymwaybarbell.com.tw/

If the bars look or sound familiar, Gymway makes a significant amount of the quality, rebranded barbells on offer to the Crossfit market.

As a non-American I would sooner purchase a Gymway barbell than an American-made barbell from someone new to the industry.

I get the patriotic sentiment, and the desire to support ones local economy/industry. But beyond that any argument about American quality v Chinese v Taiwanese quality just stinks of xenophobia to me... there are examples of good and bad quality products from all three countries.

[Bench905]

I just don't think we know enough about this bar yet. Once we hear a review, things could change.

I did link two reviews in the original post.

[deiphid]

Also, regarding the number of "manufacturers" who have recently brought out updated competition bumper plate designs, with raised lettering, recessed hubs, and wider lips...

I bring you Gymway's 2014 competition bumper plate offering, which was introduced I think late last year:

http://www.gymwaybarbell.com.tw/pro/...93&cid=41&f=41

Salute your new Taiwanese overlords.

[morebarbell]

You are right that China and Taiwan can produce quality products. When it comes to barbells, Taiwan is particularly significant - http://www.gymwaybarbell.com.tw/

If the bars look or sound familiar, Gymway makes a significant amount of the quality, rebranded barbells on offer to the Crossfit market.

As a non-American I would sooner purchase a Gymway barbell than an American-made barbell from someone new to the industry.

I get the patriotic sentiment, and the desire to support ones local economy/industry. But beyond that any argument about American quality v Chinese v Taiwanese quality just stinks of xenophobia to me... there are examples of good and bad quality products from all three countries.

I suspect that the Ivanko OB-limited is made by Gymway but it's just a guess. I don't know for sure. It's on the clearance page if you want to have a look at it.

This is my experience with Again Faster imports (see quote below). I've also owned several Ivanko imported economy bars and sold every one, keeping only the USA-made bars. I do like Ivanko plates that are made in Taiwan and China. And I do recommend the Chinese-made CAP OB-86B to noobs looking for an economical bar purchased retail. If I was sent bars from Rogue (Ohio bushing), Pendlay (bushing) and Again Faster (bearing) for a detailed comparison, I would be absolutely shocked if the Again Faster bar turned out to be the better bar. I'm open to the possibility... but I'd be shocked.

Here's a photo of the pitting on my Again Faster mini deadlift jack. Most of the paint has been removed (not finished yet) and a large amount of rust scale came off with it. Unfortunately, the pitting is too deep to be filled in by a primer and the surface will still look bad even after it is repainted... but hopefully a little better than it did originally. I'm not sure if it is worth repainting now that I know that the surface is so bad... and a rattle can paint won't be as durable as a powder coat... BUT, I think it will be an improvement over the original paint and I'm happy that the ugly logo is gone. The photo is of the handle. The other pieces were in much better condition.

Uesaka isn't made in the USA but they make high quality bars. And I'd say these machined steel plates are the nicest change plates that I've ever seen.

[deiphid]

Fair cop... but then I highly doubt Again Faster would use the same manufacturer for that deadlift jack and its barbells.

So it's like saying all US rack manufacturers produce poor quality work based on SyntheticKiller's Texas Strength Systems rack.

In the case of Ivanko - they are hardly going to seek out and import a foreign made bar which is of comparable quality to their US made bars, just so they can sell it cheaper, are they?

There is no good reason why a US made bar must be superior in quality to one made anywhere else. Whether or not a particular bar is better than another is of course subjective, but beyond supporting local industry I believe any belief in the blanket superiority of one country's manufacturing over another is just a tad ignorant.

[morebarbell]

Fair cop... but then I highly doubt Again Faster would use the same manufacturer for that deadlift jack and its barbells.

Obviously, a deadlift jack and a barbell are very different but Again Faster chooses the quality that want to sell.

So it's like saying all US rack manufacturers produce poor quality work based on SyntheticKiller's Texas Strength Systems rack.

You're being a bit ridiculous. Do I really need to type out why this isn't the same thing?

In the case of Ivanko - they are hardly going to seek out and import a foreign made bar which is of comparable quality to their US made bars, just so they can sell it cheaper, are they?

I don't understand what point that you are trying to make.

There is no good reason why a US made bar must be superior in quality to one made anywhere else. Whether or not a particular bar is better than another is of course subjective, but beyond supporting local industry I believe any belief in the blanket superiority of one country's manufacturing over another is just a tad ignorant.

I didn't say that. You are generalizing, exaggerating and making accusations. I know this is the internet but come on. Eleiko, York (Canada), Uesaka (Japan), Schnell (Germany), and many other bars aren't made in the USA.

[ICEcap2]

It's interesting that no one has questioned the validity of the TS. Until tested by an independent lab who knows.

[daniel327]

It's interesting that no one has questioned the validity of the TS. Until tested by an independent lab who knows.

It's more interesting that you're happy to accept the claims of all other manufacturers without question.

Why is this new item any different?

[deiphid]

Obviously, a deadlift jack and a barbell are very different but Again Faster chooses the quality that want to sell.



You're being a bit ridiculous. Do I really need to type out why this isn't the same thing?



I don't understand what point that you are trying to make.



I didn't say that. You are generalizing, exaggerating and making accusations. I know this is the internet but come on. Eleiko, York (Canada), Uesaka (Japan), Schnell (Germany), and many other bars aren't made in the USA.

Sorry, no offence intended. Much of my post was more a general commentary on consumer attitudes rather than an accusation of xenophobia on your part.

Regarding Ivanko, what I'm saying is - as a U.S. manufacturer they are not going to go out and source a product which competes in quality with their premium product but sells for cheaper. Rather their economy bars are supposed to fill the economy space in their product line.

I own an ivanko OBX-20KG, and have used a few Gymway bars in commercial settings - I can tell you the quality is definitely comparable.

[Bench905]

I think the best solution is that everyone pool their money to buy me one. Thnks!

[morebarbell]

Sorry, no offence intended. Much of my post was more a general commentary on consumer attitudes rather than an accusation of xenophobia on your part.

Regarding Ivanko, what I'm saying is - as a U.S. manufacturer they are not going to go out and source a product which competes in quality with their premium product but sells for cheaper. Rather their economy bars are supposed to fill the economy space in their product line.

I own an ivanko OBX-20KG, and have used a few Gymway bars in commercial settings - I can tell you the quality is definitely comparable.

I think there's probably a big difference in what is readily available in the USA and other countries. If I lived in NZ, I probably would never have ordered an Ivanko bar and had it shipped to the NZ. And unfortunately, there are some very nice brands that I propably won't ever buy because they aren't readily available in the USA and are typically quite expensive. For $300, I'd hope this Klokov bar would be a decent bar. The professional photographed and edited images look nice... they usually do... so did the photos of the mini deadlift jack. I'm not expecting the bar to be a piece of junk like the deadlift jack. I'm not wowed by the tensile strength or the appearance of the bar. And I'm skeptical of the bearings... and you won't know how long the bearings will last until the fail. And I'm skeptical of Again Faster's quality control.

[ICEcap2]

It's more interesting that you're happy to accept the claims of all other manufacturers without question.

Why is this new item any different?

I'm not, never said so. I take most all the BS marketing dept write with some skepticism until proven otherwise. However when one company makes claims that are way above all others my BS meter gets even more sensitive.

Someone posted here that he has a bent Ivanko bar. This bar was either shipped bent, or didn't meet the TS/YS claims of Ivanko, or the user was lying about how it was used. I tend to believe one of the 1st 2. No products or 100% defect free, my disappointment was how Ivanko and its' distributor handled the customer. Rippeitoe had a problem with an Eleiko bar bending and not having the company back it up.

So more important than a TS spec is how the company is going to handle the customer if the "super strong" bar bends.

[deiphid]

Someone posted here that he has a bent Ivanko bar. This bar was either shipped bent, or didn't meet the TS/YS claims of Ivanko, or the user was lying about how it was used. I tend to believe one of the 1st 2. No products or 100% defect free, my disappointment was how Ivanko and its' distributor handled the customer. Rippeitoe had a problem with an Eleiko bar bending and not having the company back it up.

So more important than a TS spec is how the company is going to handle the customer if the "super strong" bar bends.

The Ivanko bar was me... the dispute is still ongoing.

I agree with you on the BS meter thing. The experience has definitely meant I am inclined to just roll my eyes at the hyperbolic claims and technical jargon bandied about by barbell hawkers.

[Skyaura]

Sorry, no offence intended. Much of my post was more a general commentary on consumer attitudes rather than an accusation of xenophobia on your part.

Regarding Ivanko, what I'm saying is - as a U.S. manufacturer they are not going to go out and source a product which competes in quality with their premium product but sells for cheaper. Rather their economy bars are supposed to fill the economy space in their product line.

I own an ivanko OBX-20KG, and have used a few Gymway bars in commercial settings - I can tell you the quality is definitely comparable.

Deiphid,

Just to follow up on Morebarbell's point. I would say that the vast majority of posters in the equipment forum are quite aware that everything made in the USA is not necessarily superior. Far from it. The IWF has certified only bars from the following companies for competition: Eleiko, Werksan, Uesaka, DHS and Zhangkong (ZKC). Not one of them an American company. Ivanko is the only PL bar made in the USA that is approved for IPF competitions. If cost was no object, I would venture to say that of the WL bars that Eleiko (Sweden) or Werksan (Turkey) would be the choice of the majority. Those who have gotten their hands on a ZKC or DHS bar have certainly sung praises of the excellence of those bars (guess where they come from).

That said, some of the reputation for the bars that are not of good quality that come from sporting good stores such as Dicks Sporting Goods that sells the Fitness Gear 7' Olympic Bar or the lesser bars from known companies such as Cap or Troy Barbell generally come out of China. Add to that is the fact that over 70% of the counterfeit goods seized worldwide and nearly 87% seized in the United States originate from China. I know Callaway had LE seize a bunch of knockoff Callaway Golf Clubs that had come from China to the US. Callaway showed how poor quality these knockoffs were by taking apart the clubs and showing the differences in quality of material and manufacturing compared to authentic Callaway Clubs. When they took the counterfeited Callaway Clubs and had the Iron Mike machine hit golf balls the performance of those clubs were noticeably poorer in both accuracy and distance when compared to the authentic Callaway clubs.

I think that is why there is some skepticism among some people when someone mentions that a product was made in China. Obviously, that is not to say some great products are not manufactured in China. There are plenty of examples of that.

[morebarbell]

...I own an ivanko OBX-20KG, and have used a few Gymway bars in commercial settings - I can tell you the quality is definitely comparable.

The photos on the Gymway website aren't real photos. http://www.gymwaybarbell.com.tw/

Is this a bar made by Gymway?
http://ivankobarbell.com/products/ol...bar_clearance/


Do you really think it is comparable to these Ivanko??



Here's the knurl on the OB-limited. What's your opinion of it? Is this like the knurl on the Gymway bars that you've used?


Here's the knurl on one of my Ivanko commercial bars. Do you think it's comparable quality to the knurl in the photo above?


What about this bar? Is this a Gymway bar? Do you think it is comparable to the Ivanko OB-20KG?
http://www.australianfitnesssupplies...ting-bar.html#

[daniel327]

What about this bar? Is this a Gymway bar? http://www.australianfitnesssupplies...ting-bar.html#

No. They're POS Chinese bars sold under the ForceUSA brand name.

Everything Australian Fitness Supplies sells is Chinese garbage.

Sadly, they have flooded the Australian market with crap, which is then peddled by most equipment retailers here.

[morebarbell]

No. They're POS Chinese bars sold under the ForceUSA brand name.

Everything Australian Fitness Supplies sells is Chinese garbage.

Sadly, they have flooded the Australian market with crap, which is then peddled by most equipment retailers here.

I'm not sure if I've seen a Gymway bar, especially close up photos.

[cmarti063]

Here's the knurl on the OB-limited. What's your opinion of it? Is this like the knurl on the Gymway bars that you've used?

That's the same knurl on my Troy GOZ-74B (rackable curl bar). It's garbage, and I hate the bar for it. That said, it's "just" a curl bar, so I haven't been able to justify getting the Ivanko OBZ-40 (the price is ridiculous for an auxiliary bar, but you get what you pay for).

[deiphid]

No. They're POS Chinese bars sold under the ForceUSA brand name.

Everything Australian Fitness Supplies sells is Chinese garbage.

Sadly, they have flooded the Australian market with crap, which is then peddled by most equipment retailers here.

Actually I think that is an older Gymway bar. The star shaped hole is a dead giveaway.

Gymway makes a full range of barbells, including cheaper general training bars.

Here is an example of one of the higher end Gymway barbells being sold in NZ:

http://www.industrialathletic.com/pr...l-bushing-20kg

I've used this bar and found it comparable to my OBX-20KG. Admittedly I am no expert in bar manufacturing and build quality... But I do know the Industrial Athletic bar had held up well after commercial use... While my OBX-20KG apparently bent enough to affect sleeve spin after a relatively tame controlled squat fail at 200kgs.

I didn't carefully examine tooling marks, knurling start and stop points etc on the Industrial Athletic bar... But the knurling was functional and appeared to be done with quality, the sleeves had no slop and did not bind or stick.

So for me the question is, do I get the bar which stays straight and takes some abuse or do I spend twice the price for a bar that does not cope with regular powerlifting usage so I can take sexy macro shots of tooling etc?

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate good build quality on a barbell, I appreciate technical innovation, but if it's distracting from the key point which is - will your barbell withstand regular gym use - then you're just wasting everyone's time with fluffy jargon and macro wankery.

My OBX-20KG definitely looks really nice. Unfortunately that is now its primary useful function.

[morebarbell]

Actually I think that is an older Gymway bar. The star shaped hole is a dead giveaway.

Gymway makes a full range of barbells, including cheaper general training bars.

Here is an example of one of the higher end Gymway barbells being sold in NZ:

http://www.industrialathletic.com/pr...l-bushing-20kg

I've used this bar and found it comparable to my OBX-20KG. Admittedly I am no expert in bar manufacturing and build quality... But I do know the Industrial Athletic bar had held up well after commercial use... While my OBX-20KG apparently bent enough to affect sleeve spin after a relatively tame controlled squat fail at 200kgs.

I didn't carefully examine tooling marks, knurling start and stop points etc on the Industrial Athletic bar... But the knurling was functional and appeared to be done with quality, the sleeves had no slop and did not bind or stick.

It looks a LOT better than the ForceUSA bar. My GUESS based on the photos is that it's similar to the Rogue bars but you don't really know what you've got until you have it in front of you. The knurl reminds me of the Rogue knurl. Neat branding and website. In the photos, it looks like the end cap might be molded and 3 dimensional--never seen that before.

So for me the question is, do I get the bar which stays straight and takes some abuse or do I spend twice the price for a bar that does not cope with regular powerlifting usage so I can take sexy macro shots of tooling etc?

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate good build quality on a barbell, I appreciate technical innovation, but if it's distracting from the key point which is - will your barbell withstand regular gym use - then you're just wasting everyone's time with fluffy jargon and macro wankery.

My OBX-20KG definitely looks really nice. Unfortunately that is now its primary useful function.

I've seen old gym bars that have been used and abused by the general public every day for decades. Some are straight as an arrow and they probably don't have tensile strengths any higher than a CAP OB-86B. There are also a lot of old bent bars in gyms. ...and some people on the forum have gotten brand new bent bars from Rogue and other brands. It happens. Ease of replacement is something to consider when buying a bar.

In the case of your Ivanko, as I said previously my GUESS is that the steel was either not fully straightened or it bowed during heat treat. It's just a GUESS. I seriously doubt it has anything to do with tensile strength if the bar was already bent when it was shipped... unless it was bent during shipping or during use. If I recall correctly, it was a small deviation but not within spec. And I bet I could find bent bars among a stock of Gymway bars or a stock of bars from any other manufacturer.

As far as "sexy photos", I suppose it's a matter of opinion. Gymway's computer generated photos are supposed to be sexy. They don't actually show the bars. A lot of companies take photos this way. A lot of product photos don't show anything that a customer needs to see. Unless they have something to hide, it shouldn't be this way. I doubt Again Faster would want to show real photos of the mini deadlift jack that they sent to me! Is the fancy end cap on the Industrial Athletic Gymway bar "fluffy" and "distracting"?

[daniel327]

Actually I think that is an older Gymway bar. The star shaped hole is a dead giveaway.

I doubt it.

More likley that ForceUSA reverse engineered a Gymway bar.

[deiphid]

Is the fancy end cap on the Industrial Athletic Gymway bar "fluffy" and "distracting"?

Ha, probably. Looks cool though right?

It is 3D, kudos to them for not just slapping a printed disc with a lame logo on the end of the bar. If that's all your business does (sourcing finished products and branding them) you may as well go all out.

Still, I'd take or leave the fancy end caps provided the bar was good quality.

[morebarbell]

Ha, probably. Looks cool though right?

It is 3D, kudos to them for not just slapping a printed disc with a lame logo on the end of the bar. If that's all your business does (sourcing finished products and branding them) you may as well go all out.

Still, I'd take or leave the fancy end caps provided the bar was good quality.

The end cap is perfect for the weightlifting steampunker. I'm looking forward to new molded R-shaped end caps from Rogue.


Btw, that photo from ForceUSA cracked me up. Maybe after they had the jr. high school shop class grind the sleeves, they had the art class take photos and edit them. Someone gave this photo a thorough massage in Photoshop. It didn't help.

[kepler2008]

A good review about AF Klokov comp. barbell : garage-gyms.com/dmitry-klokov-olympic-barbell

Manufacturing an (10 bearing, high quality knurling, 260000 (!) psi tensile strenght) olympic barbell for such a cheap price (412.50 € here in Europe) still remains a mistery for me.

[Jetigen]

A good review about AF Klokov comp. barbell : garage-gyms.com/dmitry-klokov-olympic-barbell

Manufacturing an (10 bearing, high quality knurling, 260000 (!) psi tensile strenght) olympic barbell for such a cheap price (412.50 € here in Europe) still remains a mistery for me.

Clickable link: A First Look at the Dmitry Klokov Olympic Bar

Video review of the bar by Klokov himself:

[Jetigen]

I think Klokov is using the 20 kg Klokov bar in the video below for doing heavy thrusters (front squat & overhead press combination).

The lifting part starts at 1:35 min:



.

And in this video. Starts at 9:40 min:

[daniel327]

Someone gave this photo a thorough massage in Photoshop.

I've inspected ForceUSA equipment in person.

That's not a photoshop.

[dumb.bell]

I did link two reviews in the original post.

I was referring to a review by a member on the board. I'm curious to get an opinion, because it does sound like a great bar at that price. I'm not all that familiar with Again Faster, but if they stand behind their stuff it is definitely a bar to consider. One of the most important aspects to me is that they stand behind the bar. Ivanko makes a great bar, but it seems clear from several complaints in this forum that they don't stand behind them.