Klokov Bar & Plates from Again Faster

[Bench905]

Didn't see a thread on this yet. Again Faster released the Klokov Competition Bar and Plates the other day.

Link for Bars & Plates: http://www.againfaster.com/shop/klok...arbell-plates/
Link for Bar Only: http://www.againfaster.com/shop/barb...tion-barbells/

Barbell is rated at 264,000 PSI (!).
Others specs:
- 28mm
- dual knurl marks
- bushings AND bearings - 5 needle bearings per side and steel bushings set both inside and outside the bearings in the collar
- hard bright chrome finish

$320 for 20kg. Crazy price for that specs and finish IMO.

two reviews:
http://daily.barbellshrugged.com/dai...lokov-barbell/
http://www.garage-gyms.com/dmitry-kl...ympic-barbell/

[Jetigen]

In the video Klokov says they worked for 6 months to release these products. Apart from Olympic weightlifters, I wonder if hardcore crossfit guys will flock to the site buying the bars and bumper plates.

Bumper plates specs:

• Guaranteed weight tolerance is +/- 0.1 - 0.05% of stated weight
• Diameter: 450mm (17.72")
• Collar Opening: 50.5mm (1.99")
• Made of molded, high density virgin rubber

Color/Thickness:
10kg: Green/31mm (1.22")
15kg: Yellow/41mm (1.61")
20kg: Blue/53.5mm (2.11")
25kg: Red/67mm (2.64")

[Xone]

Funny how klokov and again faster apparently worked on these plates for six months and they look identical to the new rogue comp plates with raised lettering, wider lip, and recessed inserts. wonder if the plant in china that makes both their plates just designed them or what. wonder if we will see a pendlay version soon too.

edit: on second thought maybe I'm wrong, the lip on the again faster plates looks a bit wider

[Jetigen]

Here is a picture of 25kg bumper plate with his last name and first name initial on it. I grabbed it from the video above.

[SmokinJoe87]

Funny how klokov and again faster apparently worked on these plates for six months and they look identical to the new rogue comp plates with raised lettering, wider lip, and recessed inserts. wonder if the plant in china that makes both their plates just designed them or what. wonder if we will see a pendlay version soon too.

They both look similar to the Werk San comp plates with the raised lettering.

[Bench905]

Wow. No one commenting about a 264k tensile strength bar, chrome plated with bearings and bushings for only $320?

[dumb.bell]

Wow. No one commenting about a 264k tensile strength bar, chrome plated with bearings and bushings for only $320?

I was hoping you would get some comments from someone familiar with the bar. 264k is such a large jump that I was wondering if it was an accurate measurement.

[swimmer32]

Wow. No one commenting about a 264k tensile strength bar, chrome plated with bearings and bushings for only $320?

Those specs at that price seem amazing. I though the Rep Excalibur bar was tough to beat, but this might one up it.

[morebarbell]

Wow. No one commenting about a 264k tensile strength bar, chrome plated with bearings and bushings for only $320?

What is the country of origin?

A lot of crossfit stores are popping up with mostly foreign made products to compete with Rogue and Pendlay selling USA-made products (and some foreign made products). And in my opinion, the tensile strength jumps seems to have become a bit of a marketing game. I'd rather buy a made in the USA Pendlay bar than a bar with a higher tensile strength that's made in China or Taiwan...not sure if that is the case here but I suspect that it is...

Also, I thought Klokov did a good job with the video but I doubt his involvement was more than superficial. A lot of companies buy endorsements.

I bought a mini deadlift jack from Again Faster and was disappointed. If I had known it was made in China then I would have ordered one from Rogue or West Cary instead. The Again Faster jack was heavily rusted and they painted right over the rust scale. Although China and Taiwan can make very high quality products that's not why most companies go overseas for manufacturing. Often they want cheap.

[thejosef]

Wow. No one commenting about a 264k tensile strength bar, chrome plated with bearings and bushings for only $320?

Impressive specs, no doubt. But is 190K, 205k, or 210k really not good enough for most people? I'm not a huge fan of how it looks with those bands in the sleeves.. it looks cheap or something. I can't put my finger on it, but Rogue's attempt at that with the Rogue 2.0 looks a lot cleaner. Also, I didn't watch all the videos or read all the info on it yet, but bearings + bushings seems like it would negate the advantage of bearings only. And dual knurl marks scream all-purpose bar.. I do think the low-ish price really makes the bar impressive though. It sounds like it would be a $500 or $600 bar easy. Gotta give them props on that.

Edit: I totally agree with morebarbell on his points above. Well said.

[Bench905]

What is the country of origin?

No idea. I'd assume Asia Pacific region.

Impressive specs, no doubt. But is 190K, 205k, or 210k really not good enough for most people? I'm not a huge fan of how it looks with those bands in the sleeves.. it looks cheap or something. I can't put my finger on it, but Rogue's attempt at that with the Rogue 2.0 looks a lot cleaner. Also, I didn't watch all the videos or read all the info on it yet, but bearings + bushings seems like it would negate the advantage of bearings only. And dual knurl marks scream all-purpose bar.. I do think the low-ish price really makes the bar impressive though. It sounds like it would be a $500 or $600 bar easy. Gotta give them props on that.

People are saying that it spins on the bearings, but the bushings are there to absorb shock. Of course, 205k is good enough for most people - but if you give someone a choice of a 205k barbell and a 264k barbell, they'd probably choose the bar with more tensile strength. Kind of like the megapixel wars in digital cameras. Photographers know that megapixels are only part of the equation, but the advertising makes it sound like the most important part.

[trnk1001]

Bushing and bearing combination has been mentioned before. I believe Eleiko and Pendlay use this method for their bearing bars (my Eleiko bar does). As for the endorsement, I don't think my B&R bar is any different. Every brand needs some well-known names to help sale unless it's one of the IWF certified brands. As for the tensile strength, I agree with what Bench905 say. It's nice to have but nobody really needs 264k, unless they're incredibly strong or incredibly stupid. And nothing can stop stupid people from ruining stuff.

[CropDusterMan]

Sorry, but I'm not into having so called American gear which is made in China with a Russian's endorsement in my
gym...

Besides, what is new here that Pendlay, Rogue, Eleiko and others don't already have?

[Bench905]

Besides, what is new here that Pendlay, Rogue, Eleiko and others don't already have?

Price point, plating and tensile strength. Most bearing bars start in the $500+ range - Rogue's Oly WL bar is 190k tensile and standard zinc plating @ $525. Satin chrome is a $60 upcharge, polished chrome a $110 upcharge. MDUSA is 190k tensile, used to be zinc but I believe then went to nickel-chrome @ $530. Eleiko comp and Klokov comp are on different price planets.

Here we have a 264k tensile strength, hard chrome plated bar at $320...and yet everyone seems to be dismissing it ? Trying to figure that out. Is it because Again Faster primarily caters to crossfitters? Because it's not made in the USA (which we're just guessing but is probably true)?

[trnk1001]

^^This^^

It was either this bar or the stainless bar for me. The OB7-SS-IWF is only $40 more with the promotion, plus I don't have to wait till after Christmas. As for the "not made in the U.S.", most places have them: Rep Fitness, Fringe Sport, Vulcan Strength, even Ironmaster. Until last year's upgrade to 190k tensile strength and 28mm shafts, both Pendlay and Rogue's standard offerings were lagging behind these foreign bars (they still are with regard to tensile strength, just not as much).

[slashragnarok]

But why wouldn't someone grab the higher tensile strength bar? As far as holding the weights are concerned, both the tensile strength ratings are way above what the bar would ever experience. But if someone "accidentally" drops a loaded barbell on say the bench or power rack pins, guess which bar stands a better chance of not bending permanently.

Second point related to the tensile strength, and someone please correct me if I am mistaken, a higher strength steel is cheaper to achieve IMO. If someone is familiar with heat treatment, he would know that carbon steels are first heated to the austenitization temperature and rapidly cooled or in other words quenched. After this the steel becomes the strongest it can be but also very hard and brittle. To tame this brittleness and get back some of the ductility, the steel is then tempered, or in other words, heated to some temperature (say x) below the austenitization temperature and then slowly cooled, mostly in air. Now here is the interesting part. The higher the temperature x, the lower the strength becomes. So when a particular steel say AISI 4140 is quenched and tempered at 1000 F, it achieves a TS of 165000 psi and when tempered at 800 F achieves a TS of 200000 psi. So the higher temperature temper is actually producing a weaker steel. Does it cost less or more to produce a higher temperature in a furnace than a lower temperature? Although my logic here may be wrong, I'm not a metallurgist.

No idea. I'd assume Asia Pacific region.



People are saying that it spins on the bearings, but the bushings are there to absorb shock. Of course, 205k is good enough for most people - but if you give someone a choice of a 205k barbell and a 264k barbell, they'd probably choose the bar with more tensile strength. Kind of like the megapixel wars in digital cameras. Photographers know that megapixels are only part of the equation, but the advertising makes it sound like the most important part.

[Cleveland33]

Sorry, but I'm not into having so called American gear which is made in China with a Russian's endorsement in my
gym...

Besides, what is new here that Pendlay, Rogue, Eleiko and others don't already have?

I'd rather have a Russian who has accomplished something's endorsement than Dave Castro's or Rippetoe's now for that matter.

[GarageIron]

But why wouldn't someone grab the higher tensile strength bar? As far as holding the weights are concerned, both the tensile strength ratings are way above what the bar would ever experience. But if someone "accidentally" drops a loaded barbell on say the bench or power rack pins, guess which bar stands a better chance of not bending permanently.

Second point related to the tensile strength, and someone please correct me if I am mistaken, a higher strength steel is cheaper to achieve IMO. If someone is familiar with heat treatment, he would know that carbon steels are first heated to the austenitization temperature and rapidly cooled or in other words quenched. After this the steel becomes the strongest it can be but also very hard and brittle. To tame this brittleness and get back some of the ductility, the steel is then tempered, or in other words, heated to some temperature (say x) below the austenitization temperature and then slowly cooled, mostly in air. Now here is the interesting part. The higher the temperature x, the lower the strength becomes. So when a particular steel say AISI 4140 is quenched and tempered at 1000 F, it achieves a TS of 165000 psi and when tempered at 800 F achieves a TS of 200000 psi. So the higher temperature temper is actually producing a weaker steel. Does it cost less or more to produce a higher temperature in a furnace than a lower temperature? Although my logic here may be wrong, I'm not a metallurgist.

Interesting for sure. It is really the Yeild strength of a bar that determines whether or not it will remain permanently bent. Tensile numbers get tossed around a lot for barbells, but we really should be paying attention to yeild which is rarely a disclosed spec.

I am guessing that the stress relieving process of heat treated steel reduces both tensile and yeild strength based on what you posted above. I've assumed that the "whip" ability of a bar is really just its yeild strength - it's desire to return to straight (or maybe the differential between its tensile and yield).

I wonder how the various methods and temperatures to relieve stress from heat treatment impact the tensile/yeild differential? For example, could you have a 190k bar with a 130k yeild and a 190k bar with a 160k yeild based on how the steel was stress relieved? I'm guessing you can. (Maybe not those numbers, but you get the idea). In these bars may "whip" differerent (I hate that word) but also bend permanently under different loads while both being sold as 190K bars.

[slashragnarok]

You are absolutely right. We should be considered with the yield strength as far as bending is considered. Digressing for a moment: I've said it before and I'll say it again, the yield strength only means what load you can exert on the material at which it will still return to its original shape on removing the load. Whereas whip is how fast a loaded and deformed material returns to original shape on removal of the load. The amount of deformation for a particular load (also called deflection) is dependent on the geometry of the object (for a barbell this is the shaft diameter) and the Young's modulus, which is almost constant for all steels. A stronger bar is not a stiffer bar. Never was, never will be. Our perception of whippiness is very qualitative and since the whip is dependent on the fourth power of the diameter, a 28.1mm bar feels perceptibly stiffer than a 28mm bar. And how any people can tell the difference in 0.1mm diameter without using a good pair of calipers?

Coming back, the yield strength to tensile strength ratio is indeed very important. But contrary to logic, I would want a bar whose YS is significantly lower than it's TS. Here's why. Let's say, and with wild exaggeration, a barbell's YS is 199999 psi and TS is 200000 psi. If, God forbid, some day, the YS is exceeded, not only would the bar bend permanently, also it has a 1 psi margin before it snaps into two. Now consider a bar whose YS is 150000 psi and TS 200000 psi. After crossing the YS the bar will be bent permanently but you'd have a 50000 psi cushion which the load would have to surmount before it can break the bar. Do I make sense here?

Interesting for sure. It is really the Yeild strength of a bar that determines whether or not it will remain permanently bent. Tensile numbers get tossed around a lot for barbells, but we really should be paying attention to yeild which is rarely a disclosed spec.

I am guessing that the stress relieving process of heat treated steel reduces both tensile and yeild strength based on what you posted above. I've assumed that the "whip" ability of a bar is really just its yeild strength - it's desire to return to straight (or maybe the differential between its tensile and yield).

I wonder how the various methods and temperatures to relieve stress from heat treatment impact the tensile/yeild differential? For example, could you have a 190k bar with a 130k yeild and a 190k bar with a 160k yeild based on how the steel was stress relieved? I'm guessing you can. (Maybe not those numbers, but you get the idea). In these bars may "whip" differerent (I hate that word) but also bend permanently under different loads while both being sold as 190K bars.

[GarageIron]

Yes. Your first paragraph is what I've been preaching for a long time.

I agree that you need a differential, and that differential should be what best suits your type of lifting and the loads the bar will have to contend with.

My point was more that we fixate on the TS number (self included), when in theory a 250K TS bar may not resist bending any more (or perhaps bend easier) than another 220K bar. Sure it may react differently, and will take more to break (I'm not really worried about that). Just saying that TS number can be misleading but is usually the first thing people consider.

[Cleveland33]

Impressive specs, no doubt. But is 190K, 205k, or 210k really not good enough for most people? I'm not a huge fan of how it looks with those bands in the sleeves.. it looks cheap or something. I can't put my finger on it, but Rogue's attempt at that with the Rogue 2.0 looks a lot cleaner. Also, I didn't watch all the videos or read all the info on it yet, but bearings + bushings seems like it would negate the advantage of bearings only. And dual knurl marks scream all-purpose bar.. I do think the low-ish price really makes the bar impressive though. It sounds like it would be a $500 or $600 bar easy. Gotta give them props on that.

Edit: I totally agree with morebarbell on his points above. Well said.

Bearing/bushing combo is actually semi-common practice in industrial settings. It's not what you think, they are usually built together into one unit.

[slashragnarok]

When you say "...resist bending" I hope you mean permanent bending. But while there is a very real chance of variation in YS/TS ratios, typical barbell steels e.g. 4140 have near identical YS/TS ratios across almost all temper ranges. So for a given steel, the YS-TS difference might vary but the ratio is pretty much constant. I just confirmed that on http://www.matweb.com/search/datashe...97eb2d80ca7598. You can calculate YS/TS. Just do the same for all the tempering temperatures (links at bottom of page). TS/YS ~ 1.17 for 4140.

Yes. Your first paragraph is what I've been preaching for a long time.

I agree that you need a differential, and that differential should be what best suits your type of lifting and the loads the bar will have to contend with.

My point was more that we fixate on the TS number (self included), when in theory a 250K TS bar may not resist bending any more (or perhaps bend easier) than another 220K bar. Sure it may react differently, and will take more to break (I'm not really worried about that). Just saying that TS number can be misleading but is usually the first thing people consider.

[GarageIron]

When you say "...resist bending" I hope you mean permanent bending. But while there is a very real chance of variation in YS/TS ratios, typical barbell steels e.g. 4140 have near identical YS/TS ratios across almost all temper ranges. So for a given steel, the YS-TS difference might vary but the ratio is pretty much constant. I just confirmed that on http://www.matweb.com/search/datashe...97eb2d80ca7598. You can calculate YS/TS. Just do the same for all the tempering temperatures (links at bottom of page). TS/YS ~ 1.17 for 4140.

Thanks, I'll look at it now.

And yes, When I refer to bending I mean becoming bent permanently. I've had people misunderstand me with that before when they thought I was referring to flex.

[CropDusterMan]

I'd rather have a Russian who has accomplished something's endorsement than Dave Castro's or Rippetoe's now for that matter.

Sorry, I'm a cold war old school subscriber. Over the years I've had many encounters with
Russian athletes...few of them were good. Nobody cares about my opinion...so I'll stay out
of the discussion, and let you guys keep it about the equipment and equip. details.

[morebarbell]

...Here we have a 264k tensile strength, hard chrome plated bar at $320...and yet everyone seems to be dismissing it ? Trying to figure that out. Is it because Again Faster primarily caters to crossfitters? Because it's not made in the USA (which we're just guessing but is probably true)?

Photographers know that megapixels are only part of the equation, but the advertising makes it sound like the most important part.

^^
Like megapixels, tensile strength is a number and there's more to a barbell. Quality of construction is more difficult to put a number on. Sure it has bearings. Are the bearings any good? Is having cheap bearings better than bushings? Xmark used to make a ball bearing EZ curl bar but they discontinued it because of poor sales. How is the knurl? Is the steel straightened? How is the machining and fit of the sleeve? Etc. Etc.

I dismissed it when I saw the photo of the bar, the same way that I dismissed the clearance-only Ivanko OB-limited which was a limited run made for them... and a lot of the other similar bars that are popping up recently.

[Cleveland33]

^^
Like megapixels, tensile strength is a number and there's more to a barbell. Quality of construction is more difficult to put a number on. Sure it has bearings. Are the bearings any good? Is having cheap bearings better than bushings? Xmark used to make a ball bearing EZ curl bar but they discontinued it because of poor sales. How is the knurl? Is the steel straightened? How is the machining and fit of the sleeve? Etc. Etc.

I dismissed it when I saw the photo of the bar, the same way that I dismissed the clearance-only Ivanko OB-limited which was a limited run made for them... and a lot of the other similar bars that are popping up recently.

all good points - but let's face it, we do a lot of salivating in here over numbers. 7 gauge steel for one.

[morebarbell]

The starting materials are important but what you do with those materials is even more important. There are going to be more and more import bars with high tensile strengths and bells and whistles trying to compete with Rogue and Pendlay.

Sometimes the manufacturing costs of those bells and whistles may have been better spent. For example, the machined groove for a rubber band is a complete waste of money. But I suppose if there weren't people that wanted to accessorize their barbells then Again Faster and Rogue wouldn't make them.

I think it would be a bigger threat to Rogue if Again Faster could reduce the manufacturing costs and sell it for cheaper by making the bar without the accessories and bearings and just put a heavy emphasis on the tensile strength. I still wouldn't buy it. But I'm not representative of the market being targeted.

[Bench905]

I think it would be a bigger threat to Rogue if Again Faster could reduce the manufacturing costs and sell it for cheaper by making the bar without the accessories and bearings and just put a heavy emphasis on the tensile strength. I still wouldn't buy it. But I'm not representative of the market being targeted.

I agree about the rubber band groove, but I think the bearings are a big selling point. Even though most people don't need bearings, the closest decent bearing bar is $200 more expensive than this. It's already about half the price ($320) of Rogue's chrome bearing bar ($635 polished chrome)...I'm not sure why you think that AF needs to cut costs and not Rogue.

[dumb.bell]

I just don't think we know enough about this bar yet. Once we hear a review, things could change.

[Cleveland33]

I just don't think we know enough about this bar yet. Once we hear a review, things could change.

your voice of reason is not welcome here.