Ethical dilemma - Potential client cannot afford Personal Training and...

[FitnessFreedom]

Hello all my fellow personal trainers.

How do you feel when a new (potential) client has NEVER worked out a day in their life, needs your help, but cannot afford 1 session let alone 10 or 20 for an effective package. I experienced this many times in the past and am curious how you would handle it. Especially if your paycheck is somewhat dependent on the number of sessions you sell (like mine was).

How would you handle this situation?

Thank you!

- Justin

[Divall213]

If you want to be successful in any type of business or money making career, you must leave emotions out of it.

If they can't afford your services, they can't have them. Period.

[WoofieNugget]

Often when some people say they can't afford it, they spend money on other crap that is useless. Do they smoke, eat fast food/restaurant food more than once a week, have the biggest cable package or a leased car? Odds are they are just bad with their money or it isn't enough of a priority.

Don't let people guilt you into dropping your rates or training for free with a sob story. If it is important enough, they will find a way or you can make arrangements to help them. Case in point - I have a single mom client who has two kids and barely makes more than minimum wage. She wanted to learn the right way to do things so I let her spread out the cost of sessions over a period of time in payments she could afford.

[joekingpt]

While it is true that we can't help everybody (we need to make a living, too), I personally always do whatever it takes to make things work. I've trained someone for as little as $20/session. I look at it in two ways. One, if they are truly committed to losing weight and give you all they can afford, I make it work for them. Not only is it helping someone in need (that's why we got into this industry, right), but they are great advertising for you. They will tell their friends and family to use your services as well. Second, if you have the open availability, would you rather make peanuts for an hour or make nothing at all? I always prefer making something rather than nothing.

See if she has some friends or family members she can work out with, do a small group style session. If you get her to pay just $15/session and she brings 3 friends, then you've got something!

[usersignup2]

tell them about your group rates. maybe they have a friend that will split or pay for the group session.

BUT if you give away or discount your normal rates, that is an indication that your services are not worth what you charge. I'm in a different profession but I never discount my fees, even though it's typical in the industry.

[PerFit]

You cant help everyone in this world. Simple as that. This is your business and you need to make a living.

If you help this person where do you draw the line? How do you decide who is a charity case and who isnt?

I know I may sound like a jerk but at the end of the day if you start training people for free/a discount it starts a downward spiral. What if they then tell their friends about the deal your giving them? Do you give them the same deal and lose even more time/money? If you dont honor the same deal, what do you tell them?

[KyleAaron]

Like Woofie said: most people spend a lot of money on various luxuries, the only question is which ones. People have a car, internet, mobile phone, eat out, buy $100 pairs of jeans, and go on interstate or international holidays - then tell us, "I can't afford PT." Coffee and doughnut each day is $7, times five days is $35 a week - there you go, that's one half-hour PT session a week, with a bonus fat loss strategy thrown in - no more doughnuts!

Almost everyone can afford it, they just can't afford it AND all that other stuff. That is, they don't value it. That's okay not to see value in it, there are millions of products and services I don't see value in and don't pay for.

It's like rdferguson said in a recent thread here, you always hesitate to ask for the money because you're unsure if you're worth it, then you remember - when I ask for a doctor or accountant's advice, I'm quite happy to pay them for it.

Ten minutes ago a guy I've known in the gym for literally years came and asked for a session or two to sort out his squats and deadlifts, he's had some back pain. I actually have a big break between clients today, and could have just trained him on the spot for free, or booked him in during a shift at another time. I've done that a lot in the past. Then I remembered what a friend and client said to me. "Kyle you idiot - MAKE THEM PAY." This gym is in a suburb with a median house price of $1,000,000 (no, I'm not exaggerating). If they can live here, they can afford a session or twenty. Even in poorer neighbourhoods they're pissing money away on something, all of us do.

I've got uni students and single mothers as clients, while people I knew were on $120,000+ said they couldn't afford it. Some I don't know how they can afford it, others I wonder why they cry poor. Who cares. I'm not their financial counsellor. They say they can or can't afford it, fine. We do gym floor shifts, they can get occasional help that way, it's part of their gym membership.

MAKE THEM PAY.

[slbross]

1) I hear you talking about selling sessions. If you mean that you work at a commercial gym as a paid employee to sell sessions, then sorry, you don't get to deviate from their rates.

2) If you truly, truly believe this person needs this and cannot afford it and they aren't prioritizing other costs (XBox Live, Starbucks, etc.) over it, then you could consider sliding scale for this client. Maybe. But,

3) There are books and internet out there. At some point the cost you set is an objective value of your worth as a commodity and service. Don't make yourself a $20 trainer. Also, remember that people value things that require sacrifice from them and don't for things that don't. A client who cancels XBox Live to have a personal trainer is a client who is very motivated to get the most out of their training and to believe that it is valuable.

[rdferguson]

1) I hear you talking about selling sessions. If you mean that you work at a commercial gym as a paid employee to sell sessions, then sorry, you don't get to deviate from their rates.

2) If you truly, truly believe this person needs this and cannot afford it and they aren't prioritizing other costs (XBox Live, Starbucks, etc.) over it, then you could consider sliding scale for this client. Maybe. But,

3) There are books and internet out there. At some point the cost you set is an objective value of your worth as a commodity and service. Don't make yourself a $20 trainer. Also, remember that people value things that require sacrifice from them and don't for things that don't. A client who cancels XBox Live to have a personal trainer is a client who is very motivated to get the most out of their training and to believe that it is valuable.

Apparently I'm on spread with you.

[FitnessFreedom]

WOW!

Thank you all very much for being forward, honest, and open about your operating procedures and personal trainer confidence/abilities!

To clarify, personal training is a highly valuable service and I believe many people can benefit from the services; especially with the obesity rate climbing steading since the middle of the 1980's.

As many of you have said, group rates and re-prioritizing personal spending seem to be ideal solutions to the "I can't afford training" issue.

* Is there any way to balance the superior skillset of a personal trainer with the abundance of potential clients (talking about large-chain gyms here) and abundance of workout equipment?

I believe we can find a solution to the Supply and Demand dilemma caused by pricing. TRUST ME: Most of us trainers are worth what we ask and MORE!

* To clarify the question: I am wondering if any of you have ideas about some kind of "standardization" to make things cheaper? Is that possible?

Thank you for your feedback and understand I am a highly motivated curious mind dying to help as many people as possible! I enjoy sharing my thoughts and receiving feedback. I am always open to sharing too!

Kindly,

- Justin

[RyouBakua]

OP has a heart. nothing wrong with that



1. see what they spend their extra money on (as kyle said)

2. referrals. say if you bring in X clients you get X sessions.
if they do it, theyre very serious. if not, they didnt want it badly enough

3. barter/trade skills

[SerpentHearted]

A few times I've had people contact me, ask me my prices... in one case actually added "you'll be saving my life" to the message... and either they'll tell me up front or after I give them a price "this is all I can afford".

Now... honestly, if people are serious and budget is the only issue I don't want them to miss out. I will find a way to make it work on that budget. So... I'll write back "at that price, here is what we can do" and maybe it is "train with me every 2nd monday and I'll email you instructions for training without me until the next session" so even if they can't afford to have me there with them physically as often as they'd like, they can still follow my program and make a strategic step towards their goal every day. And of course they can check in with me on ******** or via email if they need to.

I have never had one single person take me up on this. Either I just never hear from them again, or they change their mind about how much they can afford and come back asking for... I don't know... either twice as much of my time in person for the same price, or half the price they just offered up, or both.

so bottom line if people are actually serious, they will pay what it costs. The ones who want to negotiate, make excuses etc... what can you do man? You can only help people who want to be helped. They should ****ing pounce on an offer like that and nominate me for a sainthood for my generosity but instead?

In all seriousness though that is probably something I should get better at understanding and addressing. I've just told you you can achieve your goal on your budget and you talk yourself out of it / change your mind. Why would that be?

[predateur1]

Start from the begining

[Simmo0508]

Then they can't train with you, simple. If they can't pay, they can't play.

Do you go anywhere else for a service and expect them to do something but not pay them? "Oh thank you Mr. Plumber, sorry I can't afford to pay you, but can you please fix this anyway?" ....Umm, no.

You must separate personal feelings from business life. You must be very strict with your screening so that you attract the right client for you and your business. Budget discussion (as well as spouses and decision makers) should be a part of your phone script when you're first talking to them before they even come in for an assessment. "My service costs between such and such, is this within your budget right now?", straight up and honest.

If you train everyone for free, you're going to be booked out doing 10hr+ days making literally no money. Have fun with that. That's not being nice, that's called being a sucker.

If you're a good trainer and you know you have value, you charge premium price. It sucks, but it's not your problem if they can't afford what your training costs. It's theirs.

[sonti]

People will not beg sliding scales to do this when they are genuinely serious about change. When people want and need change, they will go to the library and get out books or fitness magazines, they will attend a local rec centre and take advantage of government-funded reduced-price programs, they will view Youtube, get a cheap DVD, whatever. There are SO MANY options for people these days, it really has never been easier to find some form of trainer online.

[rollinsband2002]

I was a weekly PT client for three years before I (just) got certified. Could I afford it? No...I was a broke and burned out Social Worker dealing with clients crying for help to pay their light bills then turning around and buying 60 inch flat screen TV's. I knew I needed it so I made it a priority and reorganized my budget to make it work. My trainer never offered a discount and I never asked for one, it was understood from day one that he was responsible for providing a service and I was responsible for paying for and utilizing it.

If a client values something they will find a way to pay for it, even if it means sacrificing something else.

[domtrainer]

You could always offer a 10 minute 'taster' or something similar. If they like what you do, they'll find the money!

[MsAfter]

Then they can't train with you, simple. If they can't pay, they can't play.

Do you go anywhere else for a service and expect them to do something but not pay them? "Oh thank you Mr. Plumber, sorry I can't afford to pay you, but can you please fix this anyway?" ....Umm, no.

You must separate personal feelings from business life. You must be very strict with your screening so that you attract the right client for you and your business. Budget discussion (as well as spouses and decision makers) should be a part of your phone script when you're first talking to them before they even come in for an assessment. "My service costs between such and such, is this within your budget right now?", straight up and honest.

If you train everyone for free, you're going to be booked out doing 10hr+ days making literally no money. Have fun with that. That's not being nice, that's called being a sucker.

If you're a good trainer and you know you have value, you charge premium price. It sucks, but it's not your problem if they can't afford what your training costs. It's theirs.

Just passing through, but had to chime in. Stop and think about what will happen when your consistent, dependable paying clients who pay you the rate you have asked for, find out that you don't just make pay exceptions for one, but several people. They are gonna feel like suckers and if you have built up any credibility and respect with them, you will lose it..and maybe their desire to do business with you, too. No one likes to be feel like they are being played. Loyal clients are no different. Wouldn't just be easier to compile a small library of exercise dvds and fitness self help books with techniques you believe are effective and loan them to people like the one the OP described? Still generous, but not sinking the PT's financial boat. Buy them used at the thrift store if you have to, if you have a burning desire to help someone get into shape for free. It will generate goodwill and one day he may find that the potentially poor client will be affected by that PT's desire to help him and miraculously, rate the client claims he could not pay, he is all of a sudden able to afford personal training.

[Jhertilus]

Hello all my fellow personal trainers.

How do you feel when a new (potential) client has NEVER worked out a day in their life, needs your help, but cannot afford 1 session let alone 10 or 20 for an effective package. I experienced this many times in the past and am curious how you would handle it. Especially if your paycheck is somewhat dependent on the number of sessions you sell (like mine was).

How would you handle this situation?

Thank you!

- Justin

Hey Justin, offer other services. Unless this is a special needs client you can have them do boot camps instead. You can charge them a specific amount knowing that other people will join then and when you come across more potential clients, offer small group training as an alternative to 1 on 1.

You can get 70 from one person or $25 from 3 people.....there's always a way.

[TheYamin]

1) I hear you talking about selling sessions. If you mean that you work at a commercial gym as a paid employee to sell sessions, then sorry, you don't get to deviate from their rates.

2) If you truly, truly believe this person needs this and cannot afford it and they aren't prioritizing other costs (XBox Live, Starbucks, etc.) over it, then you could consider sliding scale for this client. Maybe. But,

3) There are books and internet out there. At some point the cost you set is an objective value of your worth as a commodity and service. Don't make yourself a $20 trainer. Also, remember that people value things that require sacrifice from them and don't for things that don't. A client who cancels XBox Live to have a personal trainer is a client who is very motivated to get the most out of their training and to believe that it is valuable.

Thanks for the great advise, this is one problem i'm trying to work out

[ptfitness4life]

Am I to assume when folks mention "$20 a session trainer", that is for an hour because to be honest, in my area , $20 for a 30 minute session is reasonable.

[Simmo0508]

Am I to assume when folks mention "$20 a session trainer", that is for an hour because to be honest, in my area , $20 for a 30 minute session is reasonable.

$20 for a half hour session is still considered pretty cheap. 30min sessions run for about $45-50 these days within the industry.

[KyleAaron]

My gym had much bitching and moaning when the direct debit price recently rose from $32.75 to $35 for half an hour.

It's not helped by the reluctance of gyms and trainers to just put their damn prices on their websites. This makes it hard for potential clients to compare.

Since I do a lot of strength training that takes ages to get through, I put people in small groups. If Anna was coming 0600 Tue/Thu, and Bob 0630 Tue/Thu, I have them both come together 0600-0700, they get extra time at the cost of sharing it with someone else. If there's a third we can make it Sun/Tue/Thu, so they pay for 1hr one-on-one and get 3hr small group. So it's less personal training and more like being a sports club member. Students and part-time workers pay for 1x30' session a week, full-time employed 2. Now the group is larger so it's 3x90' sessions a week which they're paying $35 or $70 a week for.

I still get people saying it's too expensive in that suburb of million-dollar homes. Next month they go on a trip to the south of France.

Money is very rarely the real issue.

Really it's the potential client who should be thinking about the ethics of this. You offer a service I want, and what I pay you for this service lets you put food on your family's dinner table. The service you offer can change my life. Now I'm going to cry poor and try to negotiate you down. However much I pay you, you'll give me the same service. I'm trying to take food off your dinner table. Is that ethical?

I have helped people post-surgery regain full use of shoulder or knee. A woman lost weight so she could get pregnant, and got stronger so her labour was easier than it would have been. People have gone from having constant back pain and being unable to go to work regularly, to pain-free except for DOMS. One guy recovering from cancer went from 2 days a week where he could be active, to 5. This meant he could keep his job and girlfriend, 2 days a week he would have lost both. I've trained depressives who've risen out of depression, women who got the confidence to ditch their abusive boyfriends, guys to quit a job they hate.

Properly done, physical training can change your life. By all means, find the cheapest trainer out there. You can spend $1,000 to achieve nothing, or $2,000 to achieve something. If you think it's expensive to hire a professional, just wait till you try an amateur.

[igsm1969]

Often when some people say they can't afford it, they spend money on other crap that is useless. Do they smoke, eat fast food/restaurant food more than once a week, have the biggest cable package or a leased car? Odds are they are just bad with their money or it isn't enough of a priority.

Don't let people guilt you into dropping your rates or training for free with a sob story. If it is important enough, they will find a way or you can make arrangements to help them. Case in point - I have a single mom client who has two kids and barely makes more than minimum wage. She wanted to learn the right way to do things so I let her spread out the cost of sessions over a period of time in payments she could afford.

So much this!^^^^ I find that people will say they cannot afford to invest in their health (personal training), and yet they sure can eat out and go out drinking all the time. I think it is more about not wanting the lifestyle change bad enough. In that case, move on and find clients that can commit.

[Endevorforever]

Stealth pricing thread?
Simply put, you price personal training based of your business model/marketing plan. Generally you should cost your training around regional rates with no more than a 25% variance. You could lower your rates if you feel it is necessary. Realize this will end up being a loss to you and at the end of the day you need to make something to keep your doors open. Try to use the client for any marketing potential they can offer. This can include referrals, work out space or equipment, or any other perk that could help your bottom line.

If your paycheck is dependent on how many sessions you sell, then you are already creating conflict by your business model. Personal training is not an hourly service like massage therapy, it is a long term guidance and care program. That being said, treating the service like and hourly session package is stupid and sets you and the client up for failure. If you must sell packages of sessions, you should sell them as a long term package or a flexible pay as you go contract. If the client is too poor hopefully they can get a personal loan or credit card to pay for it. But watering down your service or not receiving enough wages so you hate your job, is not going to get anyone to their goals.

[TheProgressiveOne]

This is business, not charity.

Unless you think you can change this persons life, and they will make a REALLY good testimonial, then concentrate on customers who have money and are willing to pay.

[FitnessFreedom]

You could always offer a 10 minute 'taster' or something similar. If they like what you do, they'll find the money!

Excellent advice.

Like selling drugs First time is free....they always come back for more!

But seriously, you have a valid point. Maybe offering them the value and letting them FEEL what it is like to work with a trainer can help (potential clients) reprioritize their budgets to buy sessions

- J

[FitnessFreedom]

This is business, not charity.

Pure genius Thank you for being candid. It is very true!