History lesson : Why Putin must be stopped

[RipedRX]

Invading another country, annexing land by force, sending fighters into other countries' air space, threatening nuclear war, have somehow this crazy effect of driving foreigners NOT WANTING to do business with you and precipitating plunge of your currency. And surprise, surprise, when your currency goes to hell, import costs a shiete more than before. And voila, INFLATION.

Monetary policy got nothing to do with this one. Sorry.


Protip : Don't go warmongering. It is not good for business.

Yes indeed, that is what the United States Empire exactly did.

[White-Belt]

That is basically the Kremlin's version of history. lol

So which version is this thread. And importantly which account is closest to the truth?

Peter hitchens has written extensively on this, I wish I could find an article with all his thoughts one place, but I can't this is the best I can do.
http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co....ed-square.html

He is not the most impartial, his dislike of the Europe clouds his judgement but he is willing to read far and wide and present both sides from the perspective of history.

[RipedRX]

Takkendo is a scum bag of the highest quality order. An absolute Zionist neo con most likely works for the mossad. GTFO

[injuredlife]

Takkendo is a scum bag of the highest quality order. An absolute Zionist neo con most likely works for the mossad. GTFO

He is literally logged in and posting 24 hours a day. What a scrub.

[Trogdor27]

Takkendo is a scum bag of the highest quality order. An absolute Zionist neo con most likely works for the mossad. GTFO

well i wasnt going to just come out and say it but this ^

[RipedRX]

NATO wasn't threatening any one back then and is not threatening anyone now.

NATO is a defensive pact. It has no offensive intention, That is not even a secret. It is structured as such. Just about all of the NATO countries have been cutting their military. Again, it is no secret. And the Russians know all that. They have extensive spy operation in Europe. It is simply NOT POSSIBLE for NATO to invade Russia. lol It is too farcical to even suggest that.

To perceive NATO as hostile and offensive is either delusional, and paranoic, which unfortunately seems to be a Russian virtue.

We are not going to render ourselves and everyone else defenseless just so the Russians can sooth their insanity. Fuk'em if they can't conduct themselves like sane adults. It is insane to suggest we should cater to such irrational savages. NATO is purely defensive. There is not any shred of doubt in that, except in the mind of irrational people. We cannot and must not subject ourselves to the mercy of such fools.

If people are so deluded that they cannot grasp the reality of a NATO structured sorely for defensive purposes, then our only course of action is to makesure that such people are rendered unable to do us harm. There is no other choice. You cannot rely on irrational people to behave rationally.

Nato is a defensive pack? hahahahaahhahaha REALY? IS that why it keeps expanding towards russias borders after the Soviet Bloc collapsed? Any one with little brain can see you are a damn tool and agent of mossad neo con scum. Everything you just mention is a lie!! Only a fat american eating a hot dog and watching a baseball game might believe you.......you make make sick, you filthy scum

[Tekkendo]

So which version is this thread. And importantly which account is closest to the truth?

Peter hitchens has written extensively on this, I wish I could find an article with all his thoughts one place, but I can't this is the best I can do.
http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co....ed-square.html

He is not the most impartial, his dislike of the Europe clouds his judgement but he is willing to read far and wide and present both sides from the perspective of history.

1. The claim that NATO wants a port in the Black Sea as a reason for Ukrainian rebelling against a murderous thief is farcical. Take a look at the map and see how many NATO countries along the coast of the BlackSea already.

2. Ukrainians rebelled against their oppressor ON THEIR OWN. Not from NATO inciting. That is pure Kremlin lie.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan

They like to mention the $5 billion EU spent on Ukraine. But they don't tell you that was over the last 20 yrs !! lol


3. Crimea was forcibly annexed at gun point. If they were so confident about it being Russian, they wouldn't need to send in those green men and held a farcical election at gun point. The Crimean natives, the Tartars boycotted the whole farce.

http://www.dailysabah.com/europe/201...crimean-tatars


4. After D-Day, the allied forces fought against Hitler for a whole year in bloody and difficult battles. The notion that Russia along would have taken the whole Europe and defeat Hilter is only the product of Kremlin propaganda.


5. US invaded Iraq and Afghanistan for good reason and good cause. Not for empire building. Liberated the locals from the tyrants that lorded over them.

6. Russia is not threatened by NATO as NATO is a defense alliance. NATO is for mutual defence. Eastern European countries, after suffering 50 yrs of enslavement and oppression by the USSR, wanted to join a defence alliance to prevent suffering the aggression of Russian imperialism again.

"..But Peter Szijjarto, the Hungarian foreign minister, said Russia’s recent actions were “unacceptable” and that Budapest would be “part of the common position” on sanctions.

“Central Europeans know what it means to have a neighbour like the Soviet Union and we never want to experience that again,” Mr Szijjarto told the FT. .."

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d89a98da-6...44feabdc0.html

If Russia feels that is threatening, that speaks volume about their scumbag nature.




Also, it is not about what Imperial Russia wants, what Putin wants, or what you and I want. It is about what the Ukrainians want. And they have spoken.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraini...election,_2014


http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0IF00R20141026




So, who gives a shiet what the Russians feel or don't feel? The Ukranians have a right to decide their own fate. Anything less is unacceptable.



If you want the truth, read this article originally linked in Post #1.

I Just Spent 7 Days Only Watching Russian News And Reading Pravda — Here's What I Learned
http://www.businessinsider.com/russi...worsen-2014-11
Written a Russian who is now a value investor in the US.

[SomaliShred]

if America was so evil why would we be welcomed with open arms into these countries? These countries let us in because they know were not trying to take over their country.

Sorry Russian supports but Russia is just a little dog with a loud bark.

let's take iraq for an example

Shia majority in that country.. America asked them to rebel against saddam, they thought america would help them get rid of saddam but actually america turned their back on them actually helping saddam by taking their weapons and trucks of they got the chance.. This was just evil and psychotic

You think saddam gives a **** about those who rebelled against him and wanted Irani influence? Nope

So america comes in no **** these people are happy there's help to get rid of saddam and this is what you see on your TV

In Syria only people that will be happy from american intervention are extremists who want an Islamic state.. America is doing a good job by placing sanctions on Assad instead of letting him protect his people against isis terrorists

Yupp america is all about freedom

Fuk your kind of clueless delusional freedom americans piss me off.. You're like a good dog that listens to what you're told

[Tekkendo]

Yes indeed, that is what the United States Empire exactly did.

Takkendo is a scum bag of the highest quality order. An absolute Zionist neo con most likely works for the mossad. GTFO

He is literally logged in and posting 24 hours a day. What a scrub.

well i wasnt going to just come out and say it but this ^

Nato is a defensive pack? hahahahaahhahaha REALY? IS that why it keeps expanding towards russias borders after the Soviet Bloc collapsed? Any one with little brain can see you are a damn tool and agent of mossad neo con scum. Everything you just mention is a lie!! Only a fat american eating a hot dog and watching a baseball game might believe you.......you make make sick, you filthy scum

All just butthurt from Russians and shills....

[FlaviusStilicho]

OP is is a dumb ass. Stop expanding Nato to our borders. Stop expending and creating military bases on our borders. Stop overthrowing legitimate government of Ukraine and installing a puppet fascist government controlled by US/ Nato. How would USA react if Russia overthrew Canadian government and installed a puppet government that stops trading with US and starts shifting towards russia? US would threaten WIII. Russia is not expanding or invading other countries like the US Imperalist have been doing. Russia does not have military bases around 176 countries around the globe. Russia has full right to protect its Borders and national interest.

Quoting so that your guys can read this again. Countries have legitimate interests and spheres of influence. If the EU wants to **** all over Russia, then they should expect the hammer.

BTW Riped, many Americans don't support the EU/EEC in this nonsense.

[injuredlife]

Quoting so that your guys can read this again. Countries have legitimate interests and spheres of influence. If the EU wants to **** all over Russia, then they should expect the hammer.

BTW Riped, many Americans don't support the EU/EEC in this nonsense.

Just like many Europeans don't support NATO in this nonsense.

[Tekkendo]

Quoting so that your guys can read this again. Countries have legitimate interests and spheres of influence. If the EU wants to **** all over Russia, then they should expect the hammer.

BTW Riped, many Americans don't support the EU/EEC in this nonsense.

So fuk the Ukrainian people and their rights and what not? You do realize they had a free presidential election and a free parliamentary election right? Unlike those held at gun points.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraini...election,_2014

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...dfd_story.html


You can't speak about freedom, liberty, human rights at home, and then turn around and deny other people the very same things you preach about so heartily. That is farcical, hypocritical, and disgraceful.

[injuredlife]

So fuk the Ukrainian people and their rights and what not? You do realize they had a free presidential election and a free parliamentary election right? Unlike those held at gun points.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraini...election,_2014

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...dfd_story.html


You can't speak about freedom, liberty, human rights at home, and then turn around and deny other people the very same things you preach about so heartily. That is farcical, hypocritical, and disgraceful.

Freedom, liberty, human rights at American home








GO HOME YANKEE DOODLE

[FlaviusStilicho]

It's funny how human rights only come into consideration when it is in the west's interest.

Ukraine is not monolithic. How would you feel if you were a Donbas type, producing more than 3/4 of the GDP of your country, paying almost all of the taxes, and getting totally shut out of the political process because Kiev/Silesia has a bare majority at the polls?

I'll say it again. Russia has legitimate security interests in the Ukraine, America and Europe knows it, and doesn't give a ****. How do you expect Russia to react?

[Trogdor27]

So fuk the Ukrainian people and their rights and what not? You do realize they had a free presidential election and a free parliamentary election right?
You can't speak about freedom, liberty, human rights at home, and then turn around and deny other people the very same things you preach about so heartily. That is farcical, hypocritical, and disgraceful.

do not be alarmed, the world economies are all on the verge of collapse but our world leaders have plenty of time and funds for hunger games society displays.




what a ****ing sham, and you think the elites arent power hungry monarchs ruling over populations of mindless slaves. the ****ing cold war is over, nukes are real. nobody is fighting anybody.

[Tekkendo]

It's funny how human rights only come into consideration when it is in the west's interest.

Ukraine is not monolithic. How would you feel if you were a Donbas type, producing more than 3/4 of the GDP of your country, paying almost all of the taxes, and getting totally shut out of the political process because Kiev/Silesia has a bare majority at the polls?

I'll say it again. Russia has legitimate security interests in the Ukraine, America and Europe knows it, and doesn't give a ****. How do you expect Russia to react?[

1. lol at blatant IMPERIALISM.

2. Russia should act like a civilized European country. Doh?

[FlaviusStilicho]

1. lol at blatant IMPERIALISM.

2. Russia should act like a civilized European country. Doh?

Russia is acting in the same manner as the EU, they're just doing a better job.

[Tekkendo]

Freedom, liberty, human rights at American home

[i mg]http://a.abcnews.com/images/Politics/GTY_ferguson_protest_mar_140819_16x9_608.jpg[/img]

[i mg]http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/535ac818ce147c73819ff5c3d6b507d158ec4ef4/c=58-0-944-664&r=x513&c=680x510/local/-/media/KSDK/KSDK/2014/08/12/1407854713005-1507430-10154505195740523-8076184409300781439-o.jpg[/img]

[ i mg]http://beforeitsnews.com/contributor/upload/10690/images/Ferguson%20Pastor%20shot.jpg[/img]


GO HOME YANKEE DOODLE

No one has died in Ferguson riots.

But Imperial Russia invaded Ukraine causing 3000-4000 death. 10% of those are Russian invaders killed by Ukrainian defenders.


Apple to oranges.

[Tekkendo]

Russia is acting in the same manner as the EU, they're just doing a better job.

Then you are insane or a liar. No EU country has invaded another country and killing thousands of people.

[injuredlife]

Then you are insane or a liar. No EU country has invaded another country and killing thousands of people.

Training and funding Neo-Nazis can not & will not be allowed. My ancestors fought the Nazis, so I applaud comrade Putin

[FlaviusStilicho]

[anxietybrah]

Why would I care about those browns?

Lol this, a bunch of commies and actors paid to give a little dance and smile by their jew financers.

I see a picture like that and I see fraud. Politicians today are nothing but lying figureheads 'playing the game' for a career. I lol so much at Obama, the first 'black' president with no valuable real life accomplishments, elected by 99% of the black vote.

Pathetic.

[Tekkendo]

Training and funding Neo-Nazis can not & will not be allowed. My ancestors fought the Nazis, so I applaud comrade Putin

You are on the wrong side, sucka. Or you are just to stupid to get your facts straight. Adolf Putler is the one training and funding neo nazis to invade Ukraine. LMAO

[Tekkendo]

NATO /EU compelled to intervene to stop aggression.

[FlaviusStilicho]

NATO /EU compelled to intervene to stop aggression.

Russia can say the exact same thing.

[Trogdor27]

Then you are insane or a liar. No EU country has invaded another country and killing thousands of people.

besides the fact that they took over almost all of africa with there "humanitarian" army presence. what would you say if russia was sending troops to half the countries in africa? inb4 "its different we really are helping the africans"

[injuredlife]

You are on the wrong side, sucka. Or you are just to stupid to get your facts straight. Adolf Putler is the one training and funding neo nazis to invade Ukraine. LMAO

28,000+ posts like this

[Igmann]

Not a fair comparison because the Alsace-Lorraine region, Sudetenland, and Danzig belonged to Germany to begin with. They were just recouping land that was taken from them. Russia's encirclement policy started WW2, not the invasion of Poland. Had there been no Poland invasion, the Soviet Union would have made its way to Germany's borders.

[White-Belt]

1. The claim that NATO wants a port in the Black Sea as a reason for Ukrainian rebelling against a murderous thief is farcical. Take a look at the map and see how many NATO countries along the coast of the BlackSea already....

1- point taken about the black sea, but the fact still remains that Nato and the EU are looking to expand into that area, despite Russia saying they don't want Nato on their border. The port of Sev is not the only reason
http://www.***.co.uk/news/world-europe-30107520

2. The Ukrainians had previously elected their oppressor http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...54b_story.html. They have even right to protest, but violence isn't democratic.

And it is widely known that Western powers openly supported the removal of the Ukraine government towards a more west leaning government
http://www.globalresearch.ca/ukraine...sboard/5375343
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-1...et-crimea-nato

Not that there is anything wrong with that by the way, the point I am making is lets not pretend that Russian actions weren't previously forewarned or that Russia was not provoked


3. Did Afgan, or Iraq have a choice? The point is I don't think we can do much preaching on the matter of right or wrong given our disastrous 15 year campaign against terror killing 100,000s in the process. We annexed entire countries, we opted to impose ''freedom'' and democracy in a region where it seems questionable that such a thing can exist at this moment. Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt and Lybia... we did a great job, the world is now a much safer place.

4. It isn't Kremlin propaganda lol, I learned that in history class 15 years ago in school. There are books written on this subject long before putin arrived on the scene. Germany was pushed back on the Eastern front long before allied troops ever landed on the beaches. Stalingrad was over, the battle of the kursk had weakened the German. The Russians even delayed this advance on Berlin in the later stages of the war opting instead to sweep down into the Med to capture as much land as possible. Germans were on the retreat on all front 1944 lol.



5. America promotes their influence through imperialism. Russia, like America are protecting their own interest. Difference is some people see Western interest as unilaterally good and Russia's as unilaterally evil. Putin killed a lot less people getting his way in Ukraine than we have.

6. If you mean by getting Ukraine and expanding NATO'S bordered right up to Russia and then sticking in a missle shield along with basing nuclear missles close to Russia's border then yes it is a defensive alliance. Tactically though it seen by Russia as expanding US interests in the area. Defensive by name, provocation in nature.

I'm not buying into anything which doesn't make sense to me. The whole idea that the West is blameless and Russian evil is complete bollox. Both have been playing a high stakes game of chicken for years.

[Tekkendo]

1- point taken about the black sea, but the fact still remains that Nato and the EU are looking to expand into that area, despite Russia saying they don't want Nato on their border. The port of Sev is not the only reason
http://www.***.co.uk/news/world-europe-30107520

That is totally Russian propaganda. Their paranoia does not give them the right to invade Ukraine or any other neighboring countries. To claim otherwise is to accept imperialism.

2. The Ukrainians had previously elected their oppressor http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...54b_story.html. They have even right to protest, but violence isn't democratic.

And it is widely known that Western powers openly supported the removal of the Ukraine government towards a more west leaning government
http://www.globalresearch.ca/ukraine...sboard/5375343
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-1...et-crimea-nato

Not that there is anything wrong with that by the way, the point I am making is lets not pretend that Russian actions weren't previously forewarned or that Russia was not provoked

Globalresearch.ca is a widely known russian propaganda site. Everything from there is to be disregarded.
http://www.live leak dot com/view?i=259_1409830022

Fuk Kissinger. He needs to catch up with the time. Russia is invading south east Ukraine. The fighting is in Ukraine. Ukraine didn't find Crimea worth fighting for. lol Dumbarse Kissinger is like half a year behind the time, and is still on da Crimea time. No one else is lol

Ukrainian people decide their own fate. Fuk Russia and Russian shills if they think that is provoking them. They have no right whatsoever. We can send troops anywhere based on this " we are provoked" bs then. That is pure Russian imperialism.

Yanukovych is a thief and a mass murderer. He got overthrown when Ukraine security services refused his order to open fire on the protesters. Members of the security services leaked his murderous plan, and the protest went into overdrive, and he was ousted within 24 hrs.

http://www.businessinsider.com/thiba...rotests-2014-2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ing_Euromaidan

3. Did Afgan, or Iraq have a choice? The point is I don't think we can do much preaching on the matter of right or wrong given our disastrous 15 year campaign against terror killing 100,000s in the process. We annexed entire countries, we opted to impose ''freedom'' and democracy in a region where it seems questionable that such a thing can exist at this moment. Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt and Lybia... we did a great job, the world is now a much safer place.

We never annexed any country. (We still have only 50 states, although Canada is practically our 51st state. ). We liberated the locals from their tyrants, and asked for nothing in return. Took no territory. Stole no resources. Robbed no one. Enslaved no one. We gave their countries back to them, helped them set up a democratic government, organized elections and help them fight their enemies.

4. It isn't Kremlin propaganda lol, I learned that in history class 15 years ago in school. There are books written on this subject long before putin arrived on the scene. Germany was pushed back on the Eastern front long before allied troops ever landed on the beaches. Stalingrad was over, the battle of the kursk had weakened the German. The Russians even delayed this advance on Berlin in the later stages of the war opting instead to sweep down into the Med to capture as much land as possible. Germans were on the retreat on all front 1944 lol.

yeah well .. i disagree totally, and would just leave it at that. lol Russian propaganda didn't begin with Putin. The USSR operated the biggest propaganda machine, and run the biggest network of disinformation agents.

You may want to read this as it pertains your country,

How the Kremlin hijacked Labour: Diary of a Kremlin insider reveals the hold Soviets had over Labour politicians
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...liticians.html

Disinformation: Former Spy Chief Reveals Secret Strategies for Undermining Freedom, Attacking Religion, and Promoting Terrorism
http://www.amazon.com/Disinformation...161T0VFB6SJMXN


http://intellit.muskingum.edu/russia...a/sect_16a.htm

5. America promotes their influence through imperialism. Russia, like America are protecting their own interest. Difference is some people see Western interest as unilaterally good and Russia's as unilaterally evil. Putin killed a lot less people getting his way in Ukraine than we have.

We promote democracy and human rights. Our national interest is in other countries become free and democratic, and economically prosperous. That way we can have peace and commerce with them. THAT is our interest. That is what we promote. It is mutually beneficial. It doesn't always work as planned b/c unfortunately the locals are often not up to task when it comes to ruling themselves as wise statesmen and good citizen. Russia doesn't give a shiet about anything except Russian imperialism. That has always been the case since the days of the Tsars. It is only about Russia's imperial interests. Russia does not believe in win-win outcome. In order for Russia to win, YOU must lose. THAT is their ethos.

We have never committed the crime Putin is committing in Ukraine. It is absurd. When did we ever send in 20% of our special forces to invade another country for (1. claiming being provoked, 2. fearing a non existing invasion, 3. trying to rebuild a lost empire of enslavement)? This is just bald faced imperialism and aggression toward a country with a democratically elected government who enjoys support from a super majority of its citizen. When did we ever invade a peaceful democracy?

6. If you mean by getting Ukraine and expanding NATO'S bordered right up to Russia and then sticking in a missle shield along with basing nuclear missles close to Russia's border then yes it is a defensive alliance. Tactically though it seen by Russia as expanding US interests in the area. Defensive by name, provocation in nature.

I'm not buying into anything which doesn't make sense to me. The whole idea that the West is blameless and Russian evil is complete bollox. Both have been playing a high stakes game of chicken for years.

Yeah well if that is the logic then we can invade and attack any country by claiming we are being provoked then. And you people would have to zip it then. If imperialism is good for Russia, then it is good for anyone else with the military might to attack anyone else. None of you shall ever criticize anything the US do in the future and the US can basically do whatever it wants b/c we are being provoked. It doesn't matter whether it is true or not, the only justification is WE FEEL we are being provoked.