Lifts stalling in a caloric deficit...

[jktx]

I've been in a caloric deficit pretty much since February & my lifts have started to stall out in the last few weeks. I'm down a little over 40 lbs from my 255 @ 5'10" with at least mid 30s bf starting point. Strength & muscle gains had been progressing well until here recently. It especially feels like my legs have been affected the most. Recovery seems to be taking longer too. I still have around 15-20 lbs to reach my goal (guessing) so plan to keep the deficit up until then. Is there anything I can do to help push through this stall or is it a case of endure it until I can increase my calories? To me it feels like my beginner's gains have run their course for now hopefully to return in a caloric surplus.

If it helps I do a 2x/wk UL split & have not changed calories in the last three months. Eating 2420/day & steadily losing about 1 lb/week still.


Thanks!

[angrypenguin54]

Great job so far!

Have you started adding any re-feeds yet? Those can be a good tool in a prolonged deficit.

Either way you are approaching the point where you have to make a decision. Prior to that though, give your body a break and let it stabilize for a few weeks. Nine months is a long time to be in a deficit, it is stressful on your body and your hormones can get out of whack, even doing it right as you have been.

Eat at maintenance for 2 to 3 weeks or until your recovery starts to feel normal again. You will probably have to adjust a bit to find your current maintenance and dont freak out the first week if you gain some weight due to increased glycogen and water. You have done an awesome job and your body deserves and needs a bit of a break.

After your recovery is back to normal and you find your new maintenance level, evaluate and determine if you want to lose fat or build muscle, because that will be the choice. Sounds like you will still want to lose fat, so drop 20% or so calories from your new maintenance and get after it again. Just realize that this time you probably wont be progressing in lifts, that is ok though. Fight like hell just not to take weight off of the bar.

Stall and plateaus are normal either in losing fat or gaining muscle. It is an excellent time to take a step back and evaluate where you are, what your next goal is and make the adjustments to get there.

[jktx]

Great job so far!

Have you started adding any re-feeds yet? Those can be a good tool in a prolonged deficit.

Either way you are approaching the point where you have to make a decision. Prior to that though, give your body a break and let it stabilize for a few weeks. Nine months is a long time to be in a deficit, it is stressful on your body and your hormones can get out of whack, even doing it right as you have been.

Eat at maintenance for 2 to 3 weeks or until your recovery starts to feel normal again. You will probably have to adjust a bit to find your current maintenance and dont freak out the first week if you gain some weight due to increased glycogen and water. You have done an awesome job and your body deserves and needs a bit of a break.

After your recovery is back to normal and you find your new maintenance level, evaluate and determine if you want to lose fat or build muscle, because that will be the choice. Sounds like you will still want to lose fat, so drop 20% or so calories from your new maintenance and get after it again. Just realize that this time you probably wont be progressing in lifts, that is ok though. Fight like hell just not to take weight off of the bar.

Stall and plateaus are normal either in losing fat or gaining muscle. It is an excellent time to take a step back and evaluate where you are, what your next goal is and make the adjustments to get there.

Appreciate the response! I'll take a look at re-feeds - have not been using them at this point & need to read up on them. I like the idea of getting out of the deficit for a little while too. Makes sense that I have gotten things out of whack & would probably be good physically & mentally to get back to maintenance for a couple of weeks or so. Will return to a deficit afterwards until I reach my initial goal - thinking this will help make it a little smoother too.

Thanks!

[michail71]

Great job so far!

Have you started adding any re-feeds yet? Those can be a good tool in a prolonged deficit.

Either way you are approaching the point where you have to make a decision. Prior to that though, give your body a break and let it stabilize for a few weeks. Nine months is a long time to be in a deficit, it is stressful on your body and your hormones can get out of whack, even doing it right as you have been.

Eat at maintenance for 2 to 3 weeks or until your recovery starts to feel normal again. You will probably have to adjust a bit to find your current maintenance and dont freak out the first week if you gain some weight due to increased glycogen and water. You have done an awesome job and your body deserves and needs a bit of a break.

After your recovery is back to normal and you find your new maintenance level, evaluate and determine if you want to lose fat or build muscle, because that will be the choice. Sounds like you will still want to lose fat, so drop 20% or so calories from your new maintenance and get after it again. Just realize that this time you probably wont be progressing in lifts, that is ok though. Fight like hell just not to take weight off of the bar.

Stall and plateaus are normal either in losing fat or gaining muscle. It is an excellent time to take a step back and evaluate where you are, what your next goal is and make the adjustments to get there.

Take that advice!

[EB68]

I would also suggest eating at maintenance for a while. Prolonged periods of eating at a deficit can have adverse affects on your body. I hope to never have to diet for more than a couple of months at a time again myself. You have made great progresss so far and a little break will do you good.

[OutOfStep]

Don't know why people are talking refeeds or going back to maintenance calories. OP's weight loss hasn't stalled yet, so why would you do that? Tbh, I don't know how anyone is able to offer any dietary advice given the lack of information provided other than calories. OP what are your macros? A breakdown of a few days of typical eating would also help, including timing of those meals relative to training. In the absence of that info, I'd recommend carbs peri-workout or even intra-workout to increase performance and continue at your current calorie intake until your weight loss stalls.

[Marius_Ursus]

Don't know why people are talking refeeds or going back to maintenance calories. OP's weight loss hasn't stalled yet, so why would you do that? Tbh, I don't know how anyone is able to offer any dietary advice given the lack of information provided other than calories. OP what are your macros? A breakdown of a few days of typical eating would also help, including timing of those meals relative to training. In the absence of that info, I'd recommend carbs peri-workout or even intra-workout to increase performance and continue at your current calorie intake until your weight loss stalls.

glycogens don't matter

duh

[JerryB]

What's problem of adding a few carbs for energy?

[jktx]

Appreciate all the feedback. Definitely given me an option to explore.

Don't know why people are talking refeeds or going back to maintenance calories. OP's weight loss hasn't stalled yet, so why would you do that? Tbh, I don't know how anyone is able to offer any dietary advice given the lack of information provided other than calories. OP what are your macros? A breakdown of a few days of typical eating would also help, including timing of those meals relative to training. In the absence of that info, I'd recommend carbs peri-workout or even intra-workout to increase performance and continue at your current calorie intake until your weight loss stalls.

Weight loss is still consistent - I have adjusted but not lowered my calories a couple times in the last three months (every 5 pounds). Right now I'm at 215g P / 107 g F / 150 g C (I'm a little under 215 lbs right now). First meal is typically 1 to 2 hours before workout then eat again when I get back to the office afterwards. 50g of carbs in each usually. Half my daily protein is split between the two as well. Fat is more concentrated towards after a couple hours post workout. Typcially getting my carbs from brown rice, sweet potatoes, & such. I'll take a look at intra-workout carbs. Appreciate the advice!

[jktx]

What's problem of adding a few carbs for energy?

And keeping the deficit the same or increasing calories?

Thanks!

[Mr. Someday]

And keeping the deficit the same or increasing calories?

Thanks!

Careful there....you ask too many people what you should do and you're likely going to end up frustrated and confused. What OutofStep was asking is why change up your diet if your fat loss hasn't stalled (at least total macros). However, you can change the timing of the macros so that the majority of your carbs are taken in and around your workout. Pretty effective strategy IMO. Worth a shot to see if you can solve your failing strength issue...still keep overall macros the same so that you continue to lose fat. Only other thing I would add is the types of carbs you eat when. For me, I try and stick to lower glycemic carbs pre and higher glycemic during and post. So if my carbs are brown rice, yams, white rice and say dextrose (like Gatorade), I'm using the brown rice and yams pre, the Gatorade during (just throwing that in there as its a cheap fast acting carb and the white rice would be utilized in my PWO meal.

Try it for a couple of weeks and se if it solves your dilemma. If not, then you could start fooling around with some added calories on certain days (like I like to do on leg days).

[Marius_Ursus]

I always figured strength loss was a natural side effect of eating less. Am I wrong about that?

[Mr. Someday]

I always figured strength loss was a natural side effect of eating less. Am I wrong about that?

Wrong may be too strong a word, but I think it has become generally accepted and thus becomes more of a mental thing...instead of pushing through it, I think many just accept the "fact" and let their lifts go down. At the very least, you want to fight to push this off to the last possible moment.

[Marius_Ursus]

Wrong may be too strong a word, but I think it has become generally accepted and thus becomes more of a mental thing...instead of pushing through it, I think many just accept the "fact" and let their lifts go down. At the very least, you want to fight to push this off to the last possible moment.

That makes sense. I'm eating on a deficit seriously right now, and my lifts are all over the place. One session, they're awesome, then they're weak for a couple of sessions...then awesome again. I need to keep a food journal, so I can figure out what's going on.

[jktx]

Careful there....you ask too many people what you should do and you're likely going to end up frustrated and confused. What OutofStep was asking is why change up your diet if your fat loss hasn't stalled (at least total macros). However, you can change the timing of the macros so that the majority of your carbs are taken in and around your workout. Pretty effective strategy IMO. Worth a shot to see if you can solve your failing strength issue...still keep overall macros the same so that you continue to lose fat. Only other thing I would add is the types of carbs you eat when. For me, I try and stick to lower glycemic carbs pre and higher glycemic during and post. So if my carbs are brown rice, yams, white rice and say dextrose (like Gatorade), I'm using the brown rice and yams pre, the Gatorade during (just throwing that in there as its a cheap fast acting carb and the white rice would be utilized in my PWO meal.

Try it for a couple of weeks and se if it solves your dilemma. If not, then you could start fooling around with some added calories on certain days (like I like to do on leg days).

Yeah I figured I could get a few different responses - actually like seeing a some different thoughts/experiences. Not going to get frustrated - my primary goal of fat loss is still working like you said & strength gains are a bonus for now. You make a good point about looking at macro timing & carb intake first & adjusting that while keeping the macros the same. This sounds like a solid first step to see if I can't start progressing again. Leg day tomorrow (been particularly rough lately), going to start working this in. Thanks!

Appreciate all the feedback!

[Plateauplower]

Another thing to try if your not following a pre established program/progression is to play around with your sets/reps and see if you can push through the sticking point. I have found that to be effective when a lift stalls. You could try to increase volume with lighter weight for a few sessions or if your running a pyramid scheme reduce the preceding set reps to have more go for the heavy work (provided your warmed up). Congrats on the progress.

[OutOfStep]

Careful there....you ask too many people what you should do and you're likely going to end up frustrated and confused. What OutofStep was asking is why change up your diet if your fat loss hasn't stalled (at least total macros). However, you can change the timing of the macros so that the majority of your carbs are taken in and around your workout. Pretty effective strategy IMO. Worth a shot to see if you can solve your failing strength issue...still keep overall macros the same so that you continue to lose fat. Only other thing I would add is the types of carbs you eat when. For me, I try and stick to lower glycemic carbs pre and higher glycemic during and post. So if my carbs are brown rice, yams, white rice and say dextrose (like Gatorade), I'm using the brown rice and yams pre, the Gatorade during (just throwing that in there as its a cheap fast acting carb and the white rice would be utilized in my PWO meal.

Try it for a couple of weeks and se if it solves your dilemma. If not, then you could start fooling around with some added calories on certain days (like I like to do on leg days).

Agreed.

That makes sense. I'm eating on a deficit seriously right now, and my lifts are all over the place. One session, they're awesome, then they're weak for a couple of sessions...then awesome again. I need to keep a food journal, so I can figure out what's going on.

This is one of the major benefits behind tracking your nutrition and knowing exactly what you're eating. It makes troubleshooting problems much easier and allows for a more precise and predictable outcome than a "wing it" approach. Some will argue "well, I've lost x pounds and I just wing it!" That's great, but sooner or later your fat loss will plateau or your lifts will start going to **** and knowing exactly what you're eating is essential to getting back on track without wasting a lot of time, getting frustrated, and most times just spinning your wheels.

Weight loss is still consistent - I have adjusted but not lowered my calories a couple times in the last three months (every 5 pounds). Right now I'm at 215g P / 107 g F / 150 g C (I'm a little under 215 lbs right now). First meal is typically 1 to 2 hours before workout then eat again when I get back to the office afterwards. 50g of carbs in each usually. Half my daily protein is split between the two as well. Fat is more concentrated towards after a couple hours post workout. Typcially getting my carbs from brown rice, sweet potatoes, & such. I'll take a look at intra-workout carbs. Appreciate the advice!

Macros and calories look good. I'd keep rolling with it and you've still got plenty of room to make adjustments when fat loss stalls. Nice to see a guy not starving himself on 1500 kcal/day like so many of the dumb asses I see posting on here. I like carbs around training to maintain performance on a cut and a carb drink during training can really help. You could allocate as little as 25-30 grams of your 150 grams of carbs to an intra workout carb drink. I've had a great deal of success using this strategy.

[jktx]

Another thing to try if your not following a pre established program/progression is to play around with your sets/reps and see if you can push through the sticking point. I have found that to be effective when a lift stalls. You could try to increase volume with lighter weight for a few sessions or if your running a pyramid scheme reduce the preceding set reps to have more go for the heavy work (provided your warmed up). Congrats on the progress.

Appreciate the suggestion. Hadn't thought about changing up the routine at this point but that might be a good next step if I don't push through with mr somebody's & out of steps suggestions. Going to incorporate those for awhile & reevaluate. If no progress then look at trying to overcome like you suggest. Then if nothing maybe return to maintenance for awhile like was suggested earlier. If anything this ought to help in the future if this comes up again. And appreciate the congrats! Long way still to go but I'm going to get there!

Agreed.



This is one of the major benefits behind tracking your nutrition and knowing exactly what you're eating. It makes troubleshooting problems much easier and allows for a more precise and predictable outcome than a "wing it" approach. Some will argue "well, I've lost x pounds and I just wing it!" That's great, but sooner or later your fat loss will plateau or your lifts will start going to **** and knowing exactly what you're eating is essential to getting back on track without wasting a lot of time, getting frustrated, and most times just spinning your wheels.



Macros and calories look good. I'd keep rolling with it and you've still got plenty of room to make adjustments when fat loss stalls. Nice to see a guy not starving himself on 1500 kcal/day like so many of the dumb asses I see posting on here. I like carbs around training to maintain performance on a cut and a carb drink during training can really help. You could allocate as little as 25-30 grams of your 150 grams of carbs to an intra workout carb drink. I've had a great deal of success using this strategy.

Thanks for that - was trying to figure out how much to go with. I'll give that a try and focusing my carbs around the workouts and see how it goes. Man I Would hate to be at much lower than where I'm at right now. I'm hungry enough as it is at 24xx. First step would be to quit countering cardio with extra calories (right now I add carbs to counter any off day liss cardio I do). Then cut calories as needed if necessary to hopefully finish this. Thanks!

[OutOfStep]

First step would be to quit countering cardio with extra calories (right now I add carbs to counter any off day liss cardio I do).

Why do you add calories to counter cardio? The food choices you make can go a long way towards controlling hunger. Make sure you are getting at least 30g of fiber/day.

[angrypenguin54]

I like cardio, but you also need to balance it because it can actually make you more hungry.

[JOHN GARGANI]

JK: I have news for you, even if you were in calorie SURPLUS, at some point, your lifting would "stall"! lol....

the way of the world.....look at gains in the long run, and remember, consistency is also progress.....after a point, all of us have had to accept the non linear or geometric gains that you get in the beginning....

[jktx]

Why do you add calories to counter cardio? The food choices you make can go a long way towards controlling hunger. Make sure you are getting at least 30g of fiber/day.

Yeah I know, sounds weird. I kind of use it as reward - do your morning cardio and get to have a few more potatoes at dinner or something... It's lame but it helps me push through the rough knee days (pretty much every day). Trying to keep cardio as health improvement for now & reserve it to help push through a fat loss stall if it happens later. I'm sure my logic is screwy but it has helped keep me going so far. Stupid mind games...

I like cardio, but you also need to balance it because it can actually make you more hungry.

Swimming in particular always gets me. I really have to be on point for about an hour or two after I get out of the pool.

JK: I have news for you, even if you were in calorie SURPLUS, at some point, your lifting would "stall"! lol....

the way of the world.....look at gains in the long run, and remember, consistency is also progress.....after a point, all of us have had to accept the non linear or geometric gains that you get in the beginning....

Yep, knew it was going to happen sooner or later. Was hoping it would be a little more later but oh well, I'll just keep at it. Been good hearing a few things to try to help push through it, and you're right its about the long run. Thanks!

[SuperZar]

I always figured strength loss was a natural side effect of eating less. Am I wrong about that?

I was in a 6 month deficit and continued to make strength gains the whole time. I started with a 43" waist so I guess there was lots to feed from What was interesting was that when I got my waist down to 38" - still over 25% bodyfat however, at that point my weight loss had stalled ... and so did my strength gains.

[dbp]

Stalling is one thing. Lifts actually going down is another. I wouldn't worry about the first but I'd really try to minimize the second.

[JOHN GARGANI]

Stalling is one thing. Lifts actually going down is another. I wouldn't worry about the first but I'd really try to minimize the second.

if they were CONSTANTLY going down, in a regular pattern, yes, that would be cause for concern.....but going down one week or the other, is not.....

the human body is NOT a machine...as such, it cannot operate at highest efficiency ALL the time.....

[OutOfStep]

if they were CONSTANTLY going down, in a regular pattern, yes, that would be cause for concern.....but going down one week or the other, is not.....

the human body is NOT a machine...as such, it cannot operate at highest efficiency ALL the time.....

Agreed John. Long term training involves a lot of reclaiming previously claimed territory. I think a lot of newer lifters get a little drunk off their linear beginner gains and don't realize that ups and downs are the rule and not the exception in this game.

[induced_drag]

I always figured strength loss was a natural side effect of eating less. Am I wrong about that?

It all depends on the level that the individual is at. A newb should be able to make progress on a properly structured deficit. An intermediate guy should be able to hold on to strength. A highly trained guy will lose a considerable amount.

For me, when I hit about week 6 of a 500cal deficit, I lose about 50lbs on my bench (10%), I lose about 30lbs on my squat (5%) and my dead is hit the least with about a 30lb drop (4%). It is mostly a function of glycogen storage I have come to believe. The strength loss settles in and stays there. It only takes about 1.5 weeks of 'normal' eating to get close to 100% of the strength back after I finish with the deficit. This is why I have come to believe it is a glycogen / water balance issue.

I am very sensitive to carb restriction and is really makes my workouts much worse. I never go below 200g of carbs and have learned to carb cycle to get more carbs targeted on workout days. It helps a lot. MCT oil works well too. I still lose a lot of strength, but I feel better and have more energy to put in a decent workout.

[Brackneyc]

I always figured strength loss was a natural side effect of eating less. Am I wrong about that?

Over time, I'd think it would be almost a given. If nothing else, the strength gains would slow down considerably. I think this messes with some guys, and they begin looking for complex answers, when simple biology is all we need to examine.

[jktx]

So I've started pushing through my stall! Focusing on my nutrition more as suggested has seemed to help. Energy up during my workout, generally feeling better. Have hit my progressions in the last couple of wo's. Unfortunately some old knee issues have caught up to me & forcing a leg workout change - was hoping to avoid multiple changes at one time to help determine what pushed me through but at this point it has to be done. Thanks for all the advice!

[silverlightning]

OP, how long have you been training for? what is your training split and type of training are you doing; high volume, high intensity, a combo of both? try coffee before your workout if you drink coffee. for me pre-workout stuff doesn't work. what time of day do you train?