Depressed as hell

[meloncap78]

I have been over this here before but I never really had a starting reference point to my journey until today. I contacted my old primary care phys from years ago and was awaiting my stats from that time period. They called me today and I just went ragemode. In June of 2010 I was 184lbs at 15% BF. I started lifting about 2 years ago diet isnt perfect but effort has been made and I am getting the macros by the end of the day. Meal timing doesn't matter to me. I have progressed in the weights (although I have been plateaued for a bit). I hit the gym 5 days a week religiously for an hour a day and my current stats are 200lbs 20% BF. I would think even with bad training and diet as a noob hitting it 5 times a week for almost 2 years that I would see more than 3 pounds of lean mass in 4 and a half years (2.5 of them not even lifting). I came out of a frenzy of drinking heavily for years right into weight training. I haven't touched alcohol in 2 years and have made the gym my addiction. I know I have posted something similar before and I apologize for the redundancy but todays news blew my mind. I know everyone is different but even a buddy of mine who has low T and eats like **** blew up his first year lifting to the point where he has big stretch marks. Everyone's answer always seems to be eat more which is fine but twice I tried to bulk for a 3 month stretch each time. First attempt was at 3600 cals and second was at 4k. Both times I gained but then lost immediately as it was mainly water retnention from all the carbs. I am lost at this point. I am fairly patient but 2 years is a decent clip and I should have seen much better progress.

[brava]

I guess you give too much importance to body fat percentages. First of all they are not very accurate.

I would trust more what I see in the mirror. How do you like what you see in the mirror?

[meloncap78]

I guess you give too much importance to body fat percentages. First of all they are not very accurate.

I would trust more what I see in the mirror. How do you like what you see in the mirror?

Well to answer your question honestly....I am terribly dissapointed. This first pic is 14 months ago. The second is recent.

[mtpockets]

..................you can't out-train bad nutrition........................

[brava]

First pic is better, I must say.

Looks like you put some fat during the last 14 months.

What I would do, begin a cut period until I'm happy to what I see, and from there start again at a slower pace from nutrition point of view.

You do possess a decent muscle mass, so as opposed to your untrained friend, you are not going to see spectacular changes within a year or two. This will take much longer.

[meloncap78]

..................you can't out-train bad nutrition........................

While I agree mostly, I do pay close attention to my macros and I eat above my maintenance. I don't indulge in dirty eating either. Right now it's oats, whole milk, whey isolate, tuna, hamburger, white rice, greek yogurt, sweet potatoes, chicken, olive oil, bananas and avocados. This is my daily food every single day and I am gitting 3600 calories daily with 40/40/20 macro split. I weigh everything on a scale and I am always within a percent or 2 of my macros. If diet needs to be more perfect than that then I should give up now. I know I am a nut about it because constantly logging food and scanning labels irritates the crap out of my wife.

[Smelly bull]

What does your program look like? Weight, exercises, reps, progression?

[meloncap78]

What does your program look like? Weight, exercises, reps, progression?

Right now..

Mon chest - flat bench or db press, incline db, incline or flat flyes, cable crossover.

Tues back - rack pulls, bent over db rows, wide lat pulldown, low cable row, close grip pulldown.

Wed legs - squats, leg press, leg extension, SLDL,

Thurs shoulders - db press, lat raises, front plate raises, upright rows, bent over lat raises, shrugs

Fri arms - ez bar curls, seated incline db curls, hammer curls, skullcrushers, close grip bench, seated dips.

All exercises are in sets of 4 with 8-10 reps. Havent been able to break a plateau in some time.

[Old-Time-Lifter]

Havent been able to break a plateau in some time.

Then it's past time to change your routine..........

[Smelly bull]

Then it's past time to change your routine..........

Agree with OTL. Depending on your goals, find a good program

[michail71]

I don't think any body fat measurement type is accurate enough to make that conclusion. The margin of error is too great and can swing the lbm gain/loss considerably.

However, if you are in the 15-20% body fat range and have normal genetics most gains will just be hidden by looking fatter. I've always read that 10-15% provides the best partitioning.

[InternetTuffGuy]

Then it's past time to change your routine..........

Agree with OTL. Depending on your goals, find a good program

I would agree. OP has two days spent on shoulders and arms. Seems like the routine needs some serious work. Go with a proven routine that works.

[tkdnj]

I never liked hitting a body part only once a week. That may work for some, especially seasoned bodybuilders, but never worked for me. At the same time I think hitting a body part twice a week is too much. So, I do a PPL split which hits each muscle once every five days, Maybe that's an alternative for you:
Day 1: Chest 12 sets / Shoulders 6 sets / Tris 6 sets
Day 2: light cardio
Day 3: Legs - Quads 10 sets / hammys 5 sets / calves 6 sets
Day 4: Back 11 sets / Bis 6 sets
Day 5: Light cardio
Repeat
As you can see, I don't do an immense amount of sets because I will hit that same muscle 5 days later. You mentioned that you plateaued, so a change couldn't hurt. Think of it this way, doing a body part once a week allows you to hit it 52 times a year, but doing a body part every five days allows you to hit it 73 times a year, 21 more opportunities for growth

[meloncap78]

I would agree. OP has two days spent on shoulders and arms. Seems like the routine needs some serious work. Go with a proven routine that works.

I was doing a mon tues chest/tri back/bi split before this with shoulders on thirs and legs on fri. That is why I switched to this.

[flipdawger]

Perhaps you've developed hypothyroidism. It's unlikely for a male but extreme difficulty losing weight is a symptom. Any number of websites can give you more information. My mother, sister and older brother have it so as a precaution I had my blood checked. Sure enough my thyroid stimulating hormone was 9.19, a high level that will need treatment. My main symptom is fatigue. No matter how much sleep I get, I feel like I have a hangover. Despite my hypothyroidism, I still lost 45 lbs last year, but only because of extreme measures: an unsafe diet and working out full body 3 days a week(1.5 hours each workout) and on the 4 off days 30 mins intense cardio.

[crupiea]

Ask yourself something.

how did you feel before you talked to the doctor?

I would be willing to bet you felt way better and more confident then how you felt after you spoke to him.

Hint.

If you want to feel confident, listen to yourself, not someone else.

other people have motives that empower themselves, not you.

[InternetTuffGuy]

I was doing a mon tues chest/tri back/bi split before this with shoulders on thirs and legs on fri. That is why I switched to this.

Maybe just reset and get back to the basics. How do you feel about a full body routine done multiple times per week? They work really well and are proven to be effective.

[JerryB]

Well to answer your question honestly....I am terribly dissapointed. This first pic is 14 months ago. The second is recent.

Is the first photo from 14 months ago? If so the second photo shows increased visceral fat in the abdominal area which indicates excessive calories in the diet. Diet needs to be re-calibrated.
The routine consist of a lot of exercises. The volume may be high and I think you are not able to achieve maximum results with such volume. I suggest you do fewer exercises with increased effort in particular the basic compound exercises for the large muscle groups.

[meloncap78]

I think you may need to re-evaluate the timing of your meals. As we age our bodies do slow down period. Our metabolism is no different. The before and after from 14 months ago is quite a bit of change, but you by no means look terrible.

Good on you for the quitting of the booze. I struggle and continue to struggle with that myself.

My suggestion would be to change things up.

1. I would consider the timing of your meals important. I avoid carbs after 6PM, I avoid carbs first thing in the morning. During those periods (Later PM early AM) I load up on proteins (eggs, whey/casein, cottage cheese, yogurt, etc) I load carbs up through out the day (minus fruit in the morning in the form of avocado and banana's).

2. If you are trying to bulk you are going to look "bigger" but you seem to concerned about looking fat. Are you seeing yourself clearly? In the before and after the big difference for me is size. Yes you are not as "Defined" but are you stronger? There is this older guy at my gym, I'd reckon 50+, who can bench 2 plates no problem. He has a belly, he's "Big" by comparison but the mofo is strong. You may be holding onto more fat but your body knows it is going to need it because you are giving it reason to. The muscle is lurking underneath. If you are worried about the fat, then you need to cut. If you are worried about getting big, you need some extra padding.

If you are concerned about your aesthetic appearance figure out what is more important to you. Size or definition. Those images you see in fitness magazines are called dehydration. Don't be basing things on that.

Cheers.

Awesome response. Greatly appreciated. My concern at this point is packing on some lean mass. I can deal with the padding but I feel like I need to fill out more in the chest and shoulders. I would like to hit 220-225 then slow cut.

[JN69]

re: 2 years is a decent clip and I should have seen much better progress.

You're not quitting and bitching about it. That's good. You figure it out. Fix your diet. Ignore this "low T" unless you can't grow facial hair. Fvks making $$ off this bs low T business.

In short, evaluate current and tighten your game.

[fedewab2]

meloncap78,

I realize we all have different paradigms; different priorities. I can also understand disappointment with perceived progress. However, your terminology seems a bit extreme: “Depressed as hell” & “went ragemode”. Let us look at some positives. It seems you have made some definite, very positive, lifestyle changes over the past couple years. You apparently quit excessive alcohol consumption. Congratulations. You are attempting to monitor and regulate your nutrition. Good job. You are very consistent, and apparently dedicated to strength training. Good work. The stats in your sig would put you at strength far beyond the average male in probably any age category. Very nice. Even though you appear a bit distressed with your perception of your progress, the improved nutrition and exercise has probably had a beneficial effect on your overall well being beyond just the physical.

You have only been lifting 2 years and you are only 36. If exercise and nutrition will be a central component of your lifestyle I think you need to take a deep breath and try to relax a bit. There will be ebbs and flows. You will have to adapt as your body ages and life circumstances change. You will make mistakes and hopefully learn from them.

Consider the nutritional and training advice provided and make some tweaks. Keep at it.

[kimm4]

1. I would consider the timing of your meals important. I avoid carbs after 6PM, I avoid carbs first thing in the morning. During those periods (Later PM early AM) I load up on proteins (eggs, whey/casein, cottage cheese, yogurt, etc) I load carbs up through out the day (minus fruit in the morning in the form of avocado and banana's).

What does the timing of meals have to do with anything? So if you eat carbs at 6:30 p.m. does a siren go off and you get zapped or something LOL...

Last I knew my body doesn't know how to tell time.

[Greginto]

What does the timing of meals have to do with anything? So if you eat carbs at 6:30 p.m. does a siren go off and you get zapped or something LOL...

Last I knew my body doesn't know how to tell time.

Your body does know how to tell time, hence you get tired. That being said timing of meals is important to keep one sustained. If you elect to eat 1 huge meal at days end, what about the rest of the day? I suspect for some people it might work but for the general population I don't think it will. You will get hungry.

As for the whole carb siren I won't bother really answering that as I'm unsure to the relevance of me simply stating what works for me. I am under the idea here that most people are physiologically different and everyone will need to do what feels best for them. I was simply giving an example, in an effort to encourage change.

Cheers.

[Brackneyc]

While I agree mostly, I do pay close attention to my macros and I eat above my maintenance. I don't indulge in dirty eating either. Right now it's oats, whole milk, whey isolate, tuna, hamburger, white rice, greek yogurt, sweet potatoes, chicken, olive oil, bananas and avocados. This is my daily food every single day and I am gitting 3600 calories daily with 40/40/20 macro split. I weigh everything on a scale and I am always within a percent or 2 of my macros. If diet needs to be more perfect than that then I should give up now. I know I am a nut about it because constantly logging food and scanning labels irritates the crap out of my wife.

Surplus is surplus, clean or "dirty. ". Shave a few cals, re-tool your program and keep going.

[Edman316]

We went over this before.

You consume too many calories per day. You need to cut your body fat before worrying about bulking.

Get on a actual calorie deficit diet. Track your calories and weigh all of your food.

You will cut body fat and LOOK bigger because you will have muscle definition.

[OutOfStep]

While I agree mostly, I do pay close attention to my macros and I eat above my maintenance. I don't indulge in dirty eating either. Right now it's oats, whole milk, whey isolate, tuna, hamburger, white rice, greek yogurt, sweet potatoes, chicken, olive oil, bananas and avocados. This is my daily food every single day and I am gitting 3600 calories daily with 40/40/20 macro split. I weigh everything on a scale and I am always within a percent or 2 of my macros. If diet needs to be more perfect than that then I should give up now. I know I am a nut about it because constantly logging food and scanning labels irritates the crap out of my wife.

Well, clearly those macros and calories don't agree with you. A lot more to this than weighing food on a scale. Start paying attention to what your body is telling you or hire someone who can do it for you.

I think you may need to re-evaluate the timing of your meals. As we age our bodies do slow down period. Our metabolism is no different. The before and after from 14 months ago is quite a bit of change, but you by no means look terrible.

Good on you for the quitting of the booze. I struggle and continue to struggle with that myself.

My suggestion would be to change things up.

1. I would consider the timing of your meals important. I avoid carbs after 6PM, I avoid carbs first thing in the morning. During those periods (Later PM early AM) I load up on proteins (eggs, whey/casein, cottage cheese, yogurt, etc) I load carbs up through out the day (minus fruit in the morning in the form of avocado and banana's).

2. If you are trying to bulk you are going to look "bigger" but you seem to concerned about looking fat. Are you seeing yourself clearly? In the before and after the big difference for me is size. Yes you are not as "Defined" but are you stronger? There is this older guy at my gym, I'd reckon 50+, who can bench 2 plates no problem. He has a belly, he's "Big" by comparison but the mofo is strong. You may be holding onto more fat but your body knows it is going to need it because you are giving it reason to. The muscle is lurking underneath. If you are worried about the fat, then you need to cut. If you are worried about getting big, you need some extra padding.

If you are concerned about your aesthetic appearance figure out what is more important to you. Size or definition. Those images you see in fitness magazines are called dehydration. Don't be basing things on that.

Cheers.

And just who the **** are you to be giving out advice to anyone? You're clueless. Stop it.

Is the first photo from 14 months ago? If so the second photo shows increased visceral fat in the abdominal area which indicates excessive calories in the diet. Diet needs to be re-calibrated.
The routine consist of a lot of exercises. The volume may be high and I think you are not able to achieve maximum results with such volume. I suggest you do fewer exercises with increased effort in particular the basic compound exercises for the large muscle groups.

Finally, someone making some sense. Yes, agreed.

[meloncap78]

Well, clearly those macros and calories don't agree with you. A lot more to this than weighing food on a scale. Start paying attention to what your body is telling you or hire someone who can do it for you.



And just who the **** are you to be giving out advice to anyone? You're clueless. Stop it.



Finally, someone making some sense. Yes, agreed.

The only problem with this theory is that I weigh the same in both of those pictures. Explain that one (not trying to be a smartass).

[michail71]

Those are the same weight and the one on the left is the before?

[kimm4]

Your body does know how to tell time, hence you get tired. That being said timing of meals is important to keep one sustained. If you elect to eat 1 huge meal at days end, what about the rest of the day? I suspect for some people it might work but for the general population I don't think it will. You will get hungry.

The timing of meals is a personal preference and makes no difference in the end result. He's eating 3600 calories a day so I don't think hunger is a big problem at the moment.

[acrawlingchaos]

OP, you took your before picture while posing with strong overhead lighting and your after picture with your shoulders rolled back with heavy back lighting.

If I was trying to make someone look bad in a photo, I would do what you did in the second. Your progress isn't nearly as bad as you think, but you needlessly turned the calories up out of impatience to make the scale climb. You don't need to see big increases on the scale as long as your strength continues to improve.