GP Industries (GPI), American Barbell, and Weld Issue Update

[Cleveland33]

They'd have to make plates for the ends of the bar anyway, so why not use leftover material from the uprights? It saves them money, uses up scrap, and is probably much easier to ensure straightness. It's not how I would do it, but I can see why they'd do it that way. It is kinda goofy looking, though.

that makes sense.

[Mech6]

I wouldn't bother replacing it, I just don't understand why they would have that extra tubing there, seems like a waste of money - I can't imagine any potential benefit of it.

I THINK I know. laser cut plates are sharp as hell. Then you have 2 options. Powder coat them as is, like Rogue does (verified this weekend on Alex's monster j-hooks) and have no paint adhere to the shrap corners. Or spend an hour deburring everything, like I've been doing these last 4-5 racks, and hate life, but at least have powder coat last a bit longer on the edges.
Tubing, on the other hand, is a pleasure to powder coat. Rounder corners. No prep work. Paint sticks perfectly.
Also, tubing would be same price as a thick plate (you pay by pound), but not sure that comes into play.

[weisgarb]

The pull up bar attachment is goofy though - with that double post bracket.

I'm not sure they're still doing that--some of the pics on Legend's site show the more traditional end-plate that everything else uses. Not all of them, but I suspect the ones that show the tubing as end-plates for the pullup bar attachment are old. More recent pics also show two pullup bars--one on the front and another on the back--instead of just the one on the front shown in the IronCompany picture I attached.

The 3133 NorthernMorris bought a few years ago has the tubing for the bar,



but the rack AttyGuy bought this year does not. They're slightly different models, but I'm sure they're using a common pullup bar for both.

[trnk1001]

I picked up my bar from the LA warehouse this morning. The people working there are helpful and friendly. According to the warehouse manager, there were 3-4 other people that did the same before I got there at 11:00 am. Most of their bars are packaged in tubes, but the manager is nice enough to let me take a few photos of the Super Power bar.

Here's a photo of the safety spotter for their 3 x 3 racks:


I checked out the grip on the AB Super Power bar. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, my only power bar is the OBX-20kg, so my experience with them is limited. The AB super power bar has a finer knurling than my OBX-20kg, it is no sand paper, but no pointy "teeth" like the OBX or TPB either. It is still a very grippy bar. It feels like a more aggressive version of the B&R York bar's knurling. The color is a little bit darker (reddish brown) than what it appears in the photo. I wish the bar sleeves are the same color, it would be an awesome looking bar.

Did not get to see any assembled racks, just a bunch of uprights (mostly 3 x 3) and attachments.

[jtaliani]

Thank you very much for the pics! Definite reps for that one. That heat treat does look quite cool, though it does make the chrome look all the more obvious too. Knurl looks to be consistent with the GP version on the prior page.

How do you like your new bar?

[morebarbell]

...I checked out the grip on the AB Super Power bar. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, my only power bar is the OBX-20kg, so my experience with them is limited. The AB super power bar has a finer knurling than my OBX-20kg, it is no sand paper, but no pointy "teeth" like the OBX or TPB either. It is still a very grippy bar. It feels like a more aggressive version of the B&R York bar's knurling. The color is a little bit darker (reddish brown) than what it appears in the photo...

Thanks for the photos and comments!

I wish the bar sleeves are the same color, it would be an awesome looking bar...

^^This!!!

[jtaliani]

This might be tenable. I just spoke with Jeff and he is checking to see if they can heat treat the sleeves and leave them raw. I'll follow-up when I hear back.

I must reiterate my prior comment and echo trnk1001's experience that this company (in my case specifically Jeff) has been very friendly and accommodating. So far, so good.

Jeff also mentioned that he could arrange a full show and tell with advance notice for any local forum members (though pics and thorough review will be required , my comment not his).

[morebarbell]

This might be tenable. I just spoke with Jeff and he is checking to see if they can heat treat the sleeves and leave them raw. I'll follow-up when I hear back.

AND at Black Friday prices???

One thing I noticed is that the inner collar on the sleeve looks like it is ground smooth rather than machined. Notice the soft rounded edge compared to the edes on most other commercial bars. Hampton does something similar on their international bars. It's something I've seen on other economy bars also. I suspect that differences in the machining might be one reason for a relatively lower cost of the stainless bar. I'm sure there are probably other ways cost is kept down also.

For comparison, here is the machined inner collar on a Pendlay bar...



And here's the inner collar on the Lockout WOD bar by American Barbell.



And here's the inexpensive stainless bar from Body Solid

[morebarbell]

How do you like your new bar?

I'm wondering also... any photos of the bar that you got also?

[morebarbell]

I wonder if the sleeve on the American Barbell Super Power Bar is more similar to their WOD bar or if it is fully lathed?

For comparison, here's a photo of a prototype of Rogue's stainless bar. The photo isn't close or sharp enough to see detail but it gives an idea.

...

I can't see the detail on the sleeves... and I actually suspect that they may have just grabbed some regular black zinc plated steel sleeves to test the stainless steel shaft. But here's a photo of the inner collar on their Ohio bar....



The inner collar on their beater bar is also pretty nicely machined...

[trnk1001]

I'm wondering also... any photos of the bar that you got also?

I can do photos, but I won't be able to actually do any lifting with it for a while (my outdoor lifting platform will be soaked for the next two days due to rain). Here are a few comparison photos with the OB7-SS-IWF I took this evening:
1. OB7 bar next to Ivanko OBX-20kg (bottom):


2. Eleiko Black Training bar next to OB7-SS-IWF:


3. Center Knurling: OB7 bar (center) and Ivanko OBX-20kg (bottom). Keep in mind the OB7 is the Olympic training bar, and not a power bar.


4. Bars line up from left to right: ZKC training bar, B&R men bar, Eleiko Black sport training bar, American Barbell OB7-SS-IWF, Ivanko OBX-20kg:


5. Sleeves from left to right: OBX-20kg, OB7-SS-IWF, Eleiko Sport Training, B&R, ZKC.


6. Sleeve thickness from top to bottom: ZKC, B&R, Eleiko, OB7-SS-IWF, OBX-20kg:


Sorry for the dirt, grease and rust. This is how my bars are in their natural habitat.
A few notes:
. The bushing on the OB7-SS-IWF is white plastic. Not sure how durable it will be. All of my other bars has bronze bushing (the ZKC is unknown, but I doubt it is plastic).
. The OBX-20kg has shorter sleeves than all other bars, so the knurled part actually extends just as far as others. It just has extra unknurled sections before you get to the sleeves (about an inch on each side).
. The finish on each bar is: ZKC (chrome), B&R (bare steel), Eleiko (black zinc? it was never confirmed), OBX-20kg (black oxide), OB7-SS-IWF (stainless with chrome sleeves).
. The OB7-SS-IWF's sleeves are not smooth like the OBX-20kg, but they are not exactly ribbed either (like the ZKC). They are still smoother than the B&R and Eleiko's sleeves.
. I use the Eleiko for Olympic lifts and B&R for squat/bench. The OBX-20kg is deadlift exclusive. ZKC is mostly for overhead lifts (chrome is a bit slick, so I have to chalk up for any pulling exercise). I don't know where the OB7 will fit in, but the knurling feels good.

[morebarbell]

Thanks for the photos and comments, trnk1001. You've got a nice collection of bars!

[barbuilders]

Forget photos you'll never know. Stainless does knurl sharper than alloy steel. Hard chrome over alloy fills very little. Deco chrome fills a lot. One problem is and oly coaches have pointed out to us most bars are too aggressive. Our bars must be used and compared. Thank you

I don't know anything about American Barbell, or their relationship to GPI, but I thought this comparison image might be of help:


As you can see, the knurl on the GP bar is not nearly as aggressive as the other two, but the overall feel of the knurl is awesome! I love the GP bar for deadlifts, it just "sticks" to my hands, without tearing them up!

[morebarbell]

...One problem is and oly coaches have pointed out to us most bars are too aggressive. Our bars must be used and compared. Thank you

Olympic coaches and the knurl on olympic bars is somewhat of a separate issue than the knurl on a power bar. An aggressive knurl would not be desirable on a bar meant for olympic lifting. But the bars designed for powerlifting usually have an aggressive knurl. With or without an aggressive knurl, it's an interesting bar. And there's always room for variety. I agree that it's best to try before you buy but that will only work for people local to your stores in California or Texas. Comparisons of photos and reviews is what most people have to go by which is why photos are so important.

[barbuilders]

100% Dead on, knurl should NOT tear your hands up. If you want a bar that rough it's one thing but when we have 95%+ customers asking for a sure grip non tear you up knurl that's what we listen too. If I get requests tomorrow for hundreds of Cheese Grater knurls I will think it over clearly. We run 1200+ bars per month and I cannot remember a complaint for knurl not aggressive enough. I had one VERY PROMINENT Olympic contender make that comment and his coach responded that he was used to Cheap Bars, that was refreshing. The Coach another Level 5 Coach loves our Bearing Bar Knurl which is similar to all of our bars. For that Super Power Bar we do have about 50 in stock NON BLUISH that are really aggressive from a first run.

[barbuilders]

Jeff can make it very clear to anyone that Apples to Apples we can match or BEAT anyone out there. We build Bars and Racks In California, we also build a LIMITED bar line in China for those that want an OK SAFE bar at a certain price point. We also build a rig line in China for Asian, Euoropean, Australian etc customers in the cases where shipping from Asia to those places way cheaper. Those markets for the most part way behind the want good stuff curve but that's changing. We have been in China for 16+ years. I'm wondering if most people know or realize that very few bars are actually US made. We have been doing that for 15+ years. The majority of everything available today is made in China, Others that will go unnamed here are still trying to figure out bars and the mountains of knowledge required to not kill someone by making one. We build Bumpers in China and California and in either location we use German Urethane because we feel it's the best. Without feeding into it too much I'd like to reiterate that without acting like we think we know everything we can only rely on all the marketing in the world does not make you an expert TIME does and NOT TIMING. We have additionally been Selectorized Weight machine design and manufacturing people as well. Upon investigation very few of us have really been at this for a long time. In close we design, build, buy and spec all material, test, document all that we do. I can only say if you are in one camp that's fine. We sell on product merit. I welcome any questions or clarifications that anyone needs. On a last note we have been an OEM ( Wholesale) manufacturer for 15+ years in Dumbbells plates etc and 36+ in Selector& plate Load Equipment so NOW to sell direct to the consumer easy but also a process to not piss everyone off. We got tired of watching companies cash in so now........... here we come. Throw us your best shot we're ready. Thank you




Which rack gives more value for the money?

By the way, Rogue Fitness racks are made in the U.S. What about American Barbell racks? You mentioned American Barbell has moved some of its manufacturing to CHINA

[barbuilders]

I forgot to comment that you are right about Olympic coaches and athletes they are different animals than those I have been used to dealing with for many years in the gym world. What working with them has done has not only pushed us to pursue perfection but also given us a vast education on how much of today's training is done in a dangerous coaching/teaching environment. When a real pro buys a bar it's a tool of the trade. Google Mercedes Dickerson who is one of our biggest supporters and of HI Tech Technique Plate fame she is a pro and will be the first to tell you, a bar purchase should be thought out very carefully.

Olympic coaches and the knurl on olympic bars is somewhat of a separate issue than the knurl on a power bar. An aggressive knurl would not be desirable on a bar meant for olympic lifting. But the bars designed for powerlifting usually have an aggressive knurl. With or without an aggressive knurl, it's an interesting bar. And there's always room for variety. I agree that it's best to try before you buy but that will only work for people local to your stores in California or Texas. Comparisons of photos and reviews is what most people have to go by which is why photos are so important.

[deiphid]

Look, this is all good and well, but building a powerlifting bar based on the opinion of an Olympic lifting coach is like asking a football coach to assist you with designing a basketball.

[Skyaura]

Look, this is all good and well, but building a powerlifting bar based on the opinion of an Olympic lifting coach is like asking a football coach to assist you with designing a basketball.

Deiphid,

I don't know. Just reading between the lines, it appears in regards to the American Barbell Power Bar, they are producing a bar for a market that appears to want a Power Bar without the aggressive knurl usually associated with those bars. The market that has been targeted by AB are strength and conditioning coaches for athletes at the various professional, college and high school ranks and to a lesser extent cross-fitters. That is a far bigger market than exists with the PL world. Currently, the only bars approved by the IPF for competition are the Eleiko, Ivanko, Uesaka, Leoko and Pallini PL Bars. AB does not look like it is trying to make a big splash in that market where the bar has to be certified. So to me, it appears they are making a conscious decision to go to a market that is looking for a different PL bar that delivers the performance that one expects from a very good PL bar but with knurling that is closer to a WL bar. I think Morebarbell alluded to this when he said it does not hurt to have variety.

I could be wrong, but that is my 2 cents.

[dumb.bell]

Deiphid,

I don't know. Just reading between the lines, it appears in regards to the American Barbell Power Bar, they are producing a bar for a market that appears to want a Power Bar without the aggressive knurl usually associated with those bars. The market that has been targeted by AB are strength and conditioning coaches for athletes at the various professional, college and high school ranks and to a lesser extent cross-fitters. That is a far bigger market than exists with the PL world. Currently, the only bars approved by the IPF for competition are the Eleiko, Ivanko, Uesaka, Leoko and Pallini PL Bars. AB does not look like it is trying to make a big splash in that market where the bar has to be certified. So to me, it appears they are making a conscious decision to go to a market that is looking for a different PL bar that delivers the performance that one expects from a very good PL bar but with knurling that is closer to a WL bar. I think Morebarbell alluded to this when he said it does not hurt to have variety.

I could be wrong, but that is my 2 cents.

If this is what they are doing, I think it is a smart move. I think this is exactly what most of the market wants. Vocal members of this forum, NO - but they are not the majority of consumers.

[morebarbell]

I'm on the same page. My impression is that they are used to dealing with exactly this type of market and using trade shows to generate orders. The consumer market which they're reaching with their new website and cart system is going to be a bit different... and probably even more diverse.

Personally, I would still be interested in the bar if the knurl is mild or aggressive as long as it is well done. I had other concerns and questions. But I was hoping the discussion would go a little better. I still haven't heard back about the adjustment mechanism on the spinlock collars which is a pretty basic question. It would be helpful to add the material (steel?) and the mechanism (?) to the description of the collars. They look like they might be steel which is something that I'd think they'd want to advertise since a lot of them are chromed cast iron. Similarly, larger/better photos of the bars would be helpful on the AB and GPI website. Not all buyers will want to google search and pull photos from a Swedish website just to see what the bar looks like!

[dumb.bell]

Personally, I would still be interested in the bar if the knurl is mild or aggressive as long as it is well done.

I agree totally. I prefer a mild knurl, but an aggressive knurl won't keep me from purchasing a bar.

[Skyaura]

I'm on the same page. My impression is that they are used to dealing with exactly this type of market and using trade shows to generate orders. The consumer market which they're reaching with their new website and cart system is going to be a bit different... and probably even more diverse.

Personally, I would still be interested in the bar if the knurl is mild or aggressive as long as it is well done. I had other concerns and questions. But I was hoping the discussion would go a little better. I still haven't heard back about the adjustment mechanism on the spinlock collars which is a pretty basic question. It would be helpful to add the material (steel?) and the mechanism (?) to the description of the collars. They look like they might be steel which is something that I'd think they'd want to advertise since a lot of them are chromed cast iron. Similarly, larger/better photos of the bars would be helpful on the AB and GPI website. Not all buyers will want to google search and pull photos from a Swedish website just to see what the bar looks like!

Morebarbell,

The AB site is not bad, bit like you I wish there was more information, such as, how many bearings are in WL bar, a description of the knurling etc. You mentioned this earlier about a lack of information or pictures on the various sites and two of the worst are the Werksan USA and Uesaka sites. I guess their reputation is such that they can get away with it. And there are plenty of places you can go for a review of their bars. Rogue is very good in that regard. Muscle Driver USA is not bad with info and pics with their Pendlay Bars.

[Skyaura]

If this is what they are doing, I think it is a smart move. I think this is exactly what most of the market wants. Vocal members of this forum, NO - but they are not the majority of consumers.

Dumbbell,

I agree. I come from the athletic world side of the equation where lifting is to make you bigger, stronger and faster so that you increase your performance on the fields and courts. Lifting is an means to an end. That market is much larger than the PL or WL world where lifting is a sport. Many of the athletes could not tell you what type of bar they are using for their lifts. They are just throwing weight onto a bar. But, they will complain if their hands are getting torn up or the knurling is digging into their traps while doing their lifts. If that is the market that AB is going after, then a very good PL bar with milder knurling makes a lot of sense.

[morebarbell]

Morebarbell,

The AB site is not bad, bit like you I wish there was more information, such as, how many bearings are in WL bar, a description of the knurling etc. You mentioned this earlier about a lack of information or pictures on the various sites and two of the worst are the Werksan USA and Uesaka sites. I guess their reputation is such that they can get away with it. And there are plenty of places you can go for a review of their bars. Rogue is very good in that regard. Muscle Driver USA is not bad with info and pics with their Pendlay Bars.

I think American Barbell is at a price point where they can compete better for the consumer dollar than Werksan or Uesaka. I think their main competition for the consumer market will be Rogue. I'm assuming that is the intention of adding a cart system.

They do have a wide range of bars... and their most expensive bars could have appeal to both commercial and consumer buyers but I assume that their most basic bars are intended primarily for the consumer market.

The AB site is fairly new and I assume they'll add more later and fill in the missing photos... such as for the elite power bar, etc. There aren't many photos of the bars on the GPI website. Maybe GPI will continue to mainly use distributors. Maybe that is the point of creating a new and separate American Barbell brand to try to capture additional markets--that was my impression at least.

Under their commercial bar category GPI has a small heavily photoshopped image of 3 bars on a page with short descriptions of 5 bars... and a photo of one end cap. I just looked and seems like there were some recent changes under the crossfit section of the GPI website (which is mainly or possibly all AB bars)I think the hyperlinks and photos may be new.... or maybe I missed them the first time that I looked.

[Skyaura]

I think American Barbell is at a price point where they can compete better for the consumer dollar than Werksan or Uesaka. I think their main competition for the consumer market will be Rogue. I'm assuming that is the intention.

The AB site is fairly new and I assume they'll add more later and fill in the missing photos... such as for the elite power bar, etc. There aren't many photos of the bars on the GPI website. Under their commercial bar category GPI has a small heavily photoshopped image of 3 bars on a page with short descriptions of 5 bars... and a photo of one end cap. I just looked and seems like there were some recently changes under the crossfit section of the GPI website... or maybe I missed them the first time that I looked. I think the hyperlinks and photos may be new.

Morebarbell,

Probably right about the consumer market as it regards AB and Rogue. And AB and Rogue offer a broader range of bars.

I have wondered about the relationship between AB and GPI. Is it a relationship where their bars are marketed to different customers. If I remember correctly, Cybex is a partner with GPI (I believe Eleiko too) and when a commercial facility such as a YMCA, Golds Gym, etc is outfitted primarily by Cybex strength and cardio equipment typically the plates, dumbbells, bars and attachments will come from GPI. If Cybex is dealing with a S&C facility, they may push the Eleiko bars and bumpers. I know that Power-Lift has a partnership with Iron Grip and Uesaka, Legend with Troy and Umax and Life Fitness/ HS with Iron Grip and I believe Ivanko. So when a facility is outfitted by PL or Legend or LF you will typically see the plates, dumbbells, bars, etc come from a company they partnered with.

Also, since it came up, I am curious about the strength equipment (plate loaded/ selectorized) that they have manufactured and under what name is it marketed. And since they sell a soft medicine ball (and this is the baseball side coming out since it is used frequently in training), how does it compare to the Dynamax and Rage soft medicine balls (both are excellent products) and are they manufactured in the USA like the Rage and Dynamax ball ?

Lastly, the USA made Anvil bumper plate I assume is a competitor to the Hi-Temps. I wonder how the Anvil compares in performance with the Hi-Temps?

[Jetigen]

Also, since it came up, I am curious about the strength equipment (plate loaded/ selectorized) that they have manufactured and under what name is it marketed.

Would be nice if American Barbell put out a video of their manufacturing facility as Nautilus did. No offence, but the Barbuilders guy sounds more like a car salesman to me.


Nautilus manufaturing

[morebarbell]

Morebarbell,

Probably right about the consumer market as it regards AB and Rogue. And AB and Rogue offer a broader range of bars.

I have wondered about the relationship between AB and GPI. Is it a relationship where their bars are marketed to different customers. If I remember correctly, Cybex is a partner with GPI (I believe Eleiko too) and when a commercial facility such as a YMCA, Golds Gym, etc is outfitted primarily by Cybex strength and cardio equipment typically the plates, dumbbells, bars and attachments will come from GPI. If Cybex is dealing with a S&C facility, they may push the Eleiko bars and bumpers. I know that Power-Lift has a partnership with Iron Grip and Uesaka, Legend with Troy and Umax and Life Fitness/ HS with Iron Grip and I believe Ivanko. So when a facility is outfitted by PL or Legend or LF you will typically see the plates, dumbbells, bars, etc come from a company they partnered with.

Also, since it came up, I am curious about the strength equipment (plate loaded/ selectorized) that they have manufactured and under what name is it marketed. And since they sell a soft medicine ball (and this is the baseball side coming out since it is used frequently in training), how does it compare to the Dynamax and Rage soft medicine balls (both are excellent products) and are they manufactured in the USA like the Rage and Dynamax ball ?

Lastly, the USA made Anvil bumper plate I assume is a competitor to the Hi-Temps. I wonder how the Anvil compares in performance with the Hi-Temps?

I suspect that those partnerships are a large chunk of sales for some companies but others will have much more knowledge on the topic. I've only heard from friends and acquaintances who have commercial gyms and from a few sales people who were surprisingly candid.

In regards to AB's new website, I'm happy to see to see another player entering this market with (apparent) interest in consumer sales.

Would be nice if American Barbell put out a video of their manufacturing facility as Nautilus did. No offence, but the Barbuilders guy sounds more like a car salesman to me.

Nautilus manufaturing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obadGngBUwY

They're new to the forum and it can take some time to adjust to the internet norms. I don't think there are two better examples to follow than Ivan (Ivanko) and Mech. They've been great assets to the community.

I'd be happy with more high resolution product photos first but a video would be cool.

[PhilippeJ]

I'm on the same page. My impression is that they are used to dealing with exactly this type of market and using trade shows to generate orders. The consumer market which they're reaching with their new website and cart system is going to be a bit different... and probably even more diverse.

Personally, I would still be interested in the bar if the knurl is mild or aggressive as long as it is well done. I had other concerns and questions. But I was hoping the discussion would go a little better. I still haven't heard back about the adjustment mechanism on the spinlock collars which is a pretty basic question. It would be helpful to add the material (steel?) and the mechanism (?) to the description of the collars. They look like they might be steel which is something that I'd think they'd want to advertise since a lot of them are chromed cast iron. Similarly, larger/better photos of the bars would be helpful on the AB and GPI website. Not all buyers will want to google search and pull photos from a Swedish website just to see what the bar looks like!

Morebarbell,

I apologize for your question not being answered sooner. These are steel collars (chromed) and they feature a compression ring mechanism.

You raise some excellent points regarding product content on our site and we appreciate the feedback. We are indeed in the process of adding higher quality photos and descriptions to the website.

Thank you.

[deiphid]

If this is what they are doing, I think it is a smart move. I think this is exactly what most of the market wants. Vocal members of this forum, NO - but they are not the majority of consumers.

Maybe they could release a powerlifting bar with a real knurl, alongside a range of coordinated gloves and handbags in lamb's leather for those with softer tastes?

...just kidding, honestly!