New article about Craze

[VicMackey92]

"So what does all that mean? You don't have to be a mathematics professor to see that even with the calculated standard deviations of 6.6% and 8.9% we are miles away (103303% to be precise) from the previously reported 23mg of N,α-diethyl phenethylamine per 5.8g serving of Craze (Lee. 2014)."


http://suppversity.blogspot.fr/2014/...ns-if.html?m=1

[TMac26]

In b4 "But, but, PA and Ron Kramer said it was IN THERE!!!"



And the Sweden lab confirmed these findings as well. (The ones that originally said it was in Craze)

[kissdadookie]

Basically, yup, Craze contained ETH for sure. Lol.

Btw, don't know that for sure :P One can speculate either way when the study was funded by DS.

[Jiigzz]

the study at hand which was "made possible", as the authors of the study say, "by support from Driven Sports Inc"

now where have I seen this before...

[TMac26]

I knew that would be the issue.


Can anyone name a company or someone else that would foot the bill for a study? Even Mike McCandles touts his study he did on Whey Hydro and everyone thinks that is fine.


Thermolife does a study on nitrates, "ALL GOOD EVERYONE"


DS does it, and its not cool. I will rep the next person who can come up with a legit person/company other than DS to do a study on Dendrobrium like they did, 10 times.

[Jiigzz]

I knew that would be the issue.


Can anyone name a company or someone else that would foot the bill for a study? Even Mike McCandles touts his study he did on Whey Hydro and everyone thinks that is fine.


Thermolife does a study on nitrates, "ALL GOOD EVERYONE"


DS does it, and its not cool.

They've done this before and found nothing in their products; yet somehow other people do?

Was it a batch that excluded ETH in large amounts? Was it a new product? How could you be sure?

[kissdadookie]

They've done this before and found nothing in their products; yet somehow other people do?

Was it a batch that excluded ETH in large amounts? Was it a new product? How could you be sure?

The wild variations in content from sample to sample I would think should be of a concern...

Maybe they hand pack the tubs like they do with the samples :P

[LoudyRowdy]

Some of you have the OG tubs...why not donate for lab analysis?

[Jiigzz]

Some of you have the OG tubs...why not donate for lab analysis?

I vote this. Isnt there a place that tests things like this for free?

[kissdadookie]

I vote this. Isnt there a place that tests things like this for free?

Aren't those tubs like collectors items now? :P

[TMac26]

They've done this before and found nothing in their products; yet somehow other people do?

Was it a batch that excluded ETH in large amounts? Was it a new product? How could you be sure?

Did you read the blog or just comment blindly?

They discuss the whole content.


And KDC, i'm disappointed. DS has released 26 lab tests from OG batch to new showing its clean. Sweden says they found it first, and then confirmed they were wrong. I remember you people were crucifying them when Sweden said they found it, yet when they admit they are wrong, you are like "well, we don't know for sure".


That's just pathetic.


PA himself said "without a reference standard, any test is pointless" All that said they "found it" confirmed they did NOT have a reference standard. Apparently the rules of testing do not apply when it comes to Patrick Arnold and his goon squad testing something.

[TMac26]

Some of you have the OG tubs...why not donate for lab analysis?

Chain of custody issue. Its not hard to put something in a tub, and re-seal it.

[ChrisLS8]

In b4 "But, but, PA and Ron Kramer said it was IN THERE!!!"



And the Sweden lab confirmed these findings as well. (The ones that originally said it was in Craze)

LOL, Several largely unbiased studies versus the one funded by DS and THAT one is the only legit one......makes sense

[VicMackey92]

I wonder if people are really reading the article

[Jiigzz]

Did you read the blog or just comment blindly?

They discuss the whole content.


And KDC, i'm disappointed. DS has released 26 lab tests from OG batch to new showing its clean. Sweden says they found it first, and then confirmed they were wrong. I remember you people were crucifying them when Sweden said they found it, yet when they admit they are wrong, you are like "well, we don't know for sure".


That's just pathetic.

I read. But I don't remember which batch #'s were originally tested positive - im on phone and cant search.

[kissdadookie]

Did you read the blog or just comment blindly?

They discuss the whole content.


And KDC, i'm disappointed. DS has released 26 lab tests from OG batch to new showing its clean. Sweden says they found it first, and then confirmed they were wrong. I remember you people were crucifying them when Sweden said they found it, yet when they admit they are wrong, you are like "well, we don't know for sure".


That's just pathetic.


PA himself said "without a reference standard, any test is pointless" All that said they "found it" confirmed they did NOT have a reference standard. Apparently the rules of testing do not apply when it comes to Patrick Arnold and his goon squad testing something.

I am not pro or con on this subject. I did have to raise an eyebrow as to why DS so quickly got rid of their inventory of Craze without much of a fight though.

One can argue that they are fighting hard now but IMO that is more of a move to redeem the brand from the negative press it received.

Either way, no horse in this race for me :P

[TMac26]

I read. But I don't remember which batch #'s were originally tested positive - im on phone and cant search.

Everyone one of them that they said were positive, DS released a lab test from Avomeen showing its clean. A DEA, FDA licensed and certified lab. All tested against a standard.

[TMac26]

I am not pro or con on this subject. I did have to raise an eyebrow as to why DS so quickly got rid of their inventory of Craze without much of a fight though.

One can argue that they are fighting hard now but IMO that is more of a move to redeem the brand from the negative press it received.

Either way, no horse in this race for me :P

I would do the same thing they did. After the USA today article, the threats against Matt's family, etc. I would do it as well.

To the average consumer, the USA Today article was damning evidence. Its easier to cut your losses and move forward, esp in this industry.

[kissdadookie]

I would do the same thing they did. After the USA today article, the threats against Matt's family, etc. I would do it as well.

To the average consumer, the USA Today article was damning evidence. Its easier to cut your losses and move forward, esp in this industry.

I can agree with that.

[Terrimonas]

Lulz DS funds a study and now they find that there's a lil bit in there when there supposedly none before? So comical as is the continued blind defense by tderp. And unless they tested the same lots that came back hot before, this doesn't blow any nails off the coffin.

[cforfa]

LOL, Several largely unbiased studies versus the one funded by DS and THAT one is the only legit one......makes sense

Lulz DS funds a study and now they find that there's a lil bit in there when there supposedly none before. So comical as is the continued blind defense by tderp. And unless they tested the same lots that came back hot before, this doesn't blow any nails off the coffin.

[TheFugitive]

Aren't those tubs like collectors items now? :P

Only if Matt signed them

[newtothelift]

Study released just after gossip of a potential upcoming craze V2. Coincidence? Maybe not sports fans

[TMac26]

I wonder if people are really reading the article

Nope!


Cause they they would be OH NOEZ!! wrong???!?!?


Of course I wouldn't expect Ron Kramer and PA Arnold goons to be convinced otherwise. Its cool to "against things these days"




Do you use Creatine?

"Nah man, just Amentoflavone, its better"

[De__eB]

Everyone one of them that they said were positive, DS released a lab test from Avomeen showing its clean. A DEA, FDA licensed and certified lab. All tested against a standard.

You might want to look into the repeated bankruptcies and divestitures that the founder of Avomeen and his father went through before citing them as some sort of high and upstanding lab

FYI - They're now the runes running that 'LabDoor' startup.

--

How about that the compound was still identified as present, despite their numerous lab tests previously showing it wasn't there at all?

How about the fact that the product also contained N-A-DEPEA, which isn't found in dendrobium, or on the label?

How about the fact that neither the labeled or unlabeled analogues detected or not detected are actually natural constituents of any form of Dendrobium?

--

My hunch, particularly in relation to the widely varying perception of the product from different batches is that their synthesis of the ingredient was yielding all 3 isomers.

In varying amounts.

And thus different batches contained significantly different ingredient profiles.

--

But hey, I guess:

"Guys look! Our product contains mainly this other synthetic NDI that wasn't on the label instead of the one you all thought was there"

is about as close to a win as DS can get right now, amirite?

[koard31]

Were the tiny amounts listed on the label? Maybe tiny print?

[ChrisLS8]

It was supposed to contain zero according to them now only containing trace amounts as if that is any better.

Other Dendrobium products have been tested and came back clean?