Dup

[TrevorCorr13]

Does anyone currently apply dup to there routine. I've been upping frequency and doing compounds more often so far so good. Anyone ?

[UberAlles]

ya, check out my log.

[ecchastang]

Does anyone currently apply dup to there routine. I've been upping frequency and doing compounds more often so far so good. Anyone ?

Yes with great results over the last 8 or 9 weeks. Doing a hypertrophy day, power day and strength day.

[TrevorCorr13]

I'm trying to apply it better to my routine the most difficult part for me is the volume and intensity blocks anyone have advice

[HamburgerTrain]

Volume blocks:

77% to 85% of your max for most training days. Add in singles later in the week at 87%+

Intensity Blocks:

Nothing under 85%.

That's about the easiest way to explain it.

[saw7988]

I like to do full body workouts for the purpose of keeping things relatively high frequency - e.g. 3-4x/week (training every other day). Are there any pros/cons to keeping full days of 1 type or rotating the types across each day? To explain better:

(H=hypertrophy, S=strength, P=power)

Style I: single-typed days (e.g. all hypertrophy, all strength, or all power) like
A: H H H
B: S S S
C: P P P

vs

Style II: rotating
A: H S P
B: P H S
C: S P H

(A, B, and C are different days, with for example 3 main lifts on each day)
?

Thanks in advance.

[BLK00TJ]

I like to do full body workouts for the purpose of keeping things relatively high frequency - e.g. 3-4x/week (training every other day). Are there any pros/cons to keeping full days of 1 type or rotating the types across each day? To explain better:

(H=hypertrophy, S=strength, P=power)

Style I: single-typed days (e.g. all hypertrophy, all strength, or all power) like
A: H H H
B: S S S
C: P P P

vs

Style II: rotating
A: H S P
B: P H S
C: S P H

(A, B, and C are different days, with for example 3 main lifts on each day)
?

Thanks in advance.

The way Dr. Zourdos explains it, you'll lose the adaptations from the hypertrophy training in group A by the time you get back around to it. Same goes for the S & P. That is more of a weekly undulated program in option 1.

I haven't tried DUP, but seriously considering it next cycle.

[saw7988]

Nah, each week is A, B, then C. All 9 of those letters happen each week (there's 3 exercises in there). So each week you do each lift (column) 3 times. For example, the first column may represent squat. So style I = H squat, S squat, P squat. Style II has H squat, P squat, S squat. The only difference is the composition of the days. Hypertrophy everything, or different styles for different lifts.

Hopefully I explained that well enough lol.

[BLK00TJ]

Nah, each week is A, B, then C. All 9 of those letters happen each week (there's 3 exercises in there). So each week you do each lift (column) 3 times. For example, the first column may represent squat. So style I = H squat, S squat, P squat. Style II has H squat, P squat, S squat. The only difference is the composition of the days. Hypertrophy everything, or different styles for different lifts.

Hopefully I explained that well enough lol.

Ahh... gotcha. Might be an interesting idea to keep the overall intensity the same workout to workout. Some may also argue that's a bad thing too. Length of workout may also be more consistant. I know my strength/max effort days seem to go longer than when I am doing higher reps/lower intensity or speed work. Speed work I feel like I can knock them out very fast with fast recovery between sets. I have been thinking about this a lot since I'm at the end of my current program and considering DUP starting next week. I only have an fixed amount of time to play with to get my training in.

[ecchastang]

I am on week two of the second cycle following Dr. Zourdos' Research study protocol and saw great progress in my bench. (I have osteochondrosis in my right hip, and have had two surgeries, so I can't follow the protocol with squat and deadlift, although I do both movements one day per week.) http://diginole.lib.fsu.edu/cgi/view...17&context=etd

[arian11]

Nah, each week is A, B, then C. All 9 of those letters happen each week (there's 3 exercises in there). So each week you do each lift (column) 3 times. For example, the first column may represent squat. So style I = H squat, S squat, P squat. Style II has H squat, P squat, S squat. The only difference is the composition of the days. Hypertrophy everything, or different styles for different lifts.

Hopefully I explained that well enough lol.

I believe the Norwegian national team does style 2. They will squat, bench and deadlift every session. But they might do a light, dynamic squat with a moderate, hypertrophy bench and heavy, strength deadlift in one session. And then rotate it for the 2nd, 3rd, etc sessions of the week. And if you look at something like the Cube method, you are only hitting each lift once a week but in that week you will do a speed squat with a hypertrophy bench and a strength deadlift or some combination like that which is similar to style 2.

[BeauFlexington]

I believe the Norwegian national team does style 2. They will squat, bench and deadlift every session. But they might do a light, dynamic squat with a moderate, hypertrophy bench and heavy, strength deadlift in one session. And then rotate it for the 2nd, 3rd, etc sessions of the week.

Do you know if Z. found any significant differences between Style I/Style II ? I ran across his powerpoint presentation where he clearly delineates the two, and I got the impression he prefers Style I ... but there's no supporting discussion or commentary indicating "whats and whys". I'm running "I" and a friend is running "II", and we're interested any further info.

(It was part of this, if you've seen it in Z's previous work ---- the "mixed" vs. "all-one-type" approach are reversed, relative to saw's labeling (Style II vs. I), in this instance):

[arian11]

Do you know if Z. found any significant differences between Style I/Style II ? I ran across his powerpoint presentation where he clearly delineates the two, and I got the impression he prefers Style I ... but there's no supporting discussion or commentary indicating "whats and whys". I'm running "I" and a friend is running "II", and we're interested any further info.

(It was part of this, if you've seen it in Z's previous work ---- the "mixed" vs. "all-one-type" approach are reversed, relative to saw's labeling (Style II vs. I), in this instance):

[img]http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7295961&d=1411587998[img]

For his Ph. D study, we only did style 1. But I'm not sure if this was because he believed it to be a better way or because it made the programming more simple and thus easier to get approved. He wasn't allowed to tell us much about the study and his hypothesis since we were part of the study and didn't want it to affect the results.

[BLK00TJ]

My big question I've always had with DUP is how to peak for a meet. Now I'm doing the old weeks of 5s, then 3s, then 1s program using RPEs and it seems to work. However, as Dr. Z would say, "Is it optimal".

[arian11]

My big question I've always had with DUP is how to peak for a meet. Now I'm doing the old weeks of 5s, then 3s, then 1s program using RPEs and it seems to work. However, as Dr. Z would say, "Is it optimal".

Same basic principle, decrease volume while increasing intensity. With multiple training sessions per week, I'll track daily and weekly volume of the competition lifts and try to peak by decreasing both. So for 1 lifter that has built their volume threshold pretty high, 8 weeks out I still recommend they do 6x5, 5x4 and 6x3 for their 3 weekly squat sessions. 4 weeks out, 4x4, 4x3 and 4x2. And by the final week, 3x3, 2x2 and 3x1. So his weekly volume goes from 27,760 up to 32,955 then down to 7,225 over the course of 8 weeks leading up to the American Open.

[NorthStrong]

For peaking Arian covered it really well.

When it comes to peaking everything is "linear" to a certain extent. Just drop some volume and increase the intensity.

I think it was Mike T who said that everything is kinda linear in the big picture, some might be a perfectly straight line and others might wave, but the mean amplitude moves at a similar rate to a simple y=mx+B type super linear line.

[saw7988]

Ahh... gotcha. Might be an interesting idea to keep the overall intensity the same workout to workout. Some may also argue that's a bad thing too. Length of workout may also be more consistant. I know my strength/max effort days seem to go longer than when I am doing higher reps/lower intensity or speed work. Speed work I feel like I can knock them out very fast with fast recovery between sets. I have been thinking about this a lot since I'm at the end of my current program and considering DUP starting next week. I only have an fixed amount of time to play with to get my training in.

Do you know if Z. found any significant differences between Style I/Style II ? I ran across his powerpoint presentation where he clearly delineates the two, and I got the impression he prefers Style I ... but there's no supporting discussion or commentary indicating "whats and whys". I'm running "I" and a friend is running "II", and we're interested any further info.

(It was part of this, if you've seen it in Z's previous work ---- the "mixed" vs. "all-one-type" approach are reversed, relative to saw's labeling (Style II vs. I), in this instance):

For his Ph. D study, we only did style 1. But I'm not sure if this was because he believed it to be a better way or because it made the programming more simple and thus easier to get approved. He wasn't allowed to tell us much about the study and his hypothesis since we were part of the study and didn't want it to affect the results.

Ah, very interesting stuff. Yea without knowing any better I would guess there's really no difference between the two styles, other than potential psychological/time/fatigue effects. Like I can see myself getting a bit burnt out mentally doing a 3rd power movement on a power day, or possibly just physically drained for a 3rd hypertrophy movement on a hypertrophy day. With style II it might be more fun & sustainable to do P->S->H on every day with the different lifts rotating in and out.

One thing I'm struggling to decide on right now is how to handle squat vs deadlift vs other back work and bench vs OHP. OHP is pretty important to me since I'm looking to transition to strongman at some point, not to mention I just think it's a fantastic movement I want to be good at for personal strength and performance development. I was thinking going sq, sq, dl, repeat in one slot, and generic upper back/lat work in the third slot. So my 3 rotating movements would be squat/deadlift + bench/ohp + upper back/lats. Thoughts?

[WCbouche]

I have followed what you all are referring to type 2 for the past few months. I based the program off of similar principles with the basis being hitting all 3 lifts 3 times a week and each day having a Heavy/Moderate/Light lift. I used Prelipen's Chart as a guide for reps based off of percentages. The attached spreadsheet lays out a 6 week run but can be copy/pasted to a longer duration. My thought is that I would use a planned linear progression each week based off of the "Max Weekly Add" column but that would be adjusted based off of the previous weeks "Level of Ease". So if you had a week of smoke show lifts it would add in the full amount for the next week. You get the idea... Basically plug in your 1RM for the big 3 and then adjust any values you like in the left columns. After that as long as you track your difficulty it will adjust the weight for you.

There is a caveat to this spreadsheet. I have had to pull back on some of the percentages shown just because I'm weak/old and was not recovering well. The values in there currently are base Prelipen's numbers so feel free to adjust accordingly. I am NOT a programming expert nor do I claim to be. Merely decent with excel and have a general understanding of how the program works. Use at your own risk.

[SuffolkPunch]

I've run something like the Norwegian approach for 10 weeks and have gained more than I had in the previous 3 years. I rate it very highly.

There is a pretty detailed writeup in my log (see sig) and I haven't changed it much since I've been running it. I could probably gain faster by pushing into overreaching and then tapering every 6 weeks or so but the amount of volume I am sustaining is enough without it impacting my work/life balance too much.

[dtaps24]

For peaking ideally you want to multiply the square root of the variants in your undulation model by pi, then prorate that using the ratio of Jupiter's alignment to the phase of the fifth moon of Saturn.

Or you could just lift heavier weights for less reps and cut back your volume so you are fully recovered when you test. But probably the first thing.

[NorthStrong]

Just drop some volume and increase the intensity.

For peaking ideally you want to multiply the square root of the variants in your undulation model by pi, then prorate that using the ratio of Jupiter's alignment to the phase of the fifth moon of Saturn.

Or you could just lift heavier weights for less reps and cut back your volume so you are fully recovered when you test. But probably the first thing.

ayyyyyy

[musclehead09]

Volume blocks:

77% to 85% of your max for most training days. Add in singles later in the week at 87%+

Intensity Blocks:

Nothing under 85%.

That's about the easiest way to explain it.

Starting out I'm following Dr. Zourdos's template of:

5x8 70%
6x6 75%
7x4+ 80%

This proceeds an intro phase of 60-65-70%

Then intense phase
4x4 80%
4x3 85%
5x2 87.5% plus singles @ 90%+

Deadlifts being only doubles in the accumulation phase and singles in intense.

Figured I'd put this since I'll be going below 77% in acc and below 85% during intense. But I'm also doing close grip and overhead press unlike the template in his paper.

[BLK00TJ]

My new cycle begins Monday and I'll be doing DUP for the first time. Last cycle was very similar to DUP but the power and hypertrophy movements weren't competition lifts. They were variations or accessory movements to competition lifts. I use RPEs to auto regulate so I'm thinking of changing the load drops throughout the cycles to regulate volume for peaking.

[musclehead09]

My new cycle begins Monday and I'll be doing DUP for the first time. Last cycle was very similar to DUP but the power and hypertrophy movements weren't competition lifts. They were variations or accessory movements to competition lifts. I use RPEs to auto regulate so I'm thinking of changing the load drops throughout the cycles to regulate volume for peaking.

Very good idea

[musclehead09]

Here's my setup that I'm starting after my meet in Saturday. So I'm starting this November 10. It's long but not meant to hijack. Meant to provide insight to anyone interested. The intro and accumulation phase comes from Dr. Zourdos himself. The intense phase is similar to what he'd provide a powerlifter in meet prep

Introduction Phase (PHASE 1)

Monday
Squat 3x8 60% (65% 2nd week)
Bench Press 3x8 60% (65% 2nd week)
Deadlift 3x2 60% (65% 2nd week)
Pull-ups 5x5

Wednesday
Squat 3x6 65% (70% 2nd week)
Bench Press 3x6 65% (70% 2nd week)
Rows 3x6

Friday
Squat 4x4 70% (75% 2nd week)
Bench Press 4x4 70% (75% 2nd week)
Deadlift 2x2 70% (75% 2nd week)
Pull-ups 5x5

Only do this phase once. After you do the entire program once you can just start it again in PHASE 2. This phase is meant to get you ready to do the lifts so often so only do it the first time doing the program.

-------------------------------------------

Accumulation Phase (PHASE 2)

Sunday
Squat 5x8 70%
Deadlift 5x2 70%
Pull-ups 5x5
Rows 4x6

Monday
Bench Press 5x8 70%
Close Grip Bench 2x8 @9
Overhead Press 3x8 @9

Tuesday
Squat 6x6 75%
Pull-ups 5x5
Rows 5x5

Wednesday
Bench Press 6x6 75%
Close Grip Bench 2x6 @9
Overhead Press 3x6 @9

Thursday
Squat 7x4+ 80% (last set rep out)
Deadlift 3x2 80%
Pull-ups 5x5
Rows 4x6

Friday
Bench Press 7x4+ 80% (last set rep out)
Overhead Press 3x4 @9

Add 5-10 lbs every week for 3-4 weeks depending in how many reps you got on your + set. After that do a light week and perform a 2 rep max on the 3 powerlifts in a mock meet fashion at the end of that week.

------------------------------------------

Intensification (PHASE 3 MEET PREP)

Sunday
Squat 3x4-6 80%
Deadlift 4x1 80%
Pull-ups 5x5
Rows 4x6

Monday
Bench Press 3x4-6 80%
Close Grip Bench 2x4 @9
Overhead Press 3x4 @9

Tuesday
Squat 4x3-4 85%
Pull-ups 5x5
Rows 5x5

Wednesday
Bench Press 4x3-4 85%
Close Grip Bench 2x3 @9
Overhead Press 3x3 @9

Thursday
Squat 5x2 87.5%, 1x1 or 2x1 90%+
Deadlift 3x1 87.5%+
Pull-ups 5x5
Rows 6x4

Friday
Bench Press 5x2 87.5%, 1x1 or 2x1 90%+
Overhead Press 3x2 @9

Add 5-10 lbs every week for 3-4 weeks. After this do a light week and at the end of that week test your 1 rep maxes in training or at your meet.