How to lose the thin layer of fat around the mid-section?

[JerryB]

Instead of insulting other members, you might better start giving out some valuable information yourself.
Bashing others opinions without any argument or real hands on counteradvice is totally useless to this community.

Thank you for the negative reps. I commented to OP you cannot spot reduce as claimed by DougBarger. Others also commented on the fallacies of DougBarger comments.

I know a little about reducing subcutaneous fat.

[Mojoke]

I know a little about reducing subcutaneous fat.

Great!! Tell us all about your strategies so we can learn from them and use them!

[kimm4]

Instead of insulting other members, you might better start giving out some valuable information yourself.
Bashing others opinions without any argument or real hands on counteradvice is totally useless to this community.

You come off a troll and I can't believe what I just read.

JerryB happens to be a well respected member in this section. He's constantly helping and giving out valuable information to members on a regular basis.

Getting lean comes down to sticking to a proper calorie deficit, tracking everything on a food scale and going the distance. It's actually quite simple. There's no magic behind it.

[kimm4]

Simply providing a way to diet for a couple of weeks to get rid of fat for more visible abs that worked for me.

Just another way to diet and that's where you need to leave it. Pulling out carbs and sodium sheds water weight. It doesn't blast away fat in a matter of a couple weeks. For your information we need sodium on a daily basis to keep our electrolytes in proper balance. You can't spot reduce. If you carry more fat in certain areas, those areas will always be the last to lean out.

I can go into a calorie deficit, not cut out any foods and still get lean/ripped.

Why would anyone want to cut out certain foods when they don't have to?

[HeavyBlueDevil]

calories in vs out, eat in a deficit, or 14.99 a month I will sell you some caffeine pill at a highly inflated price and the weight will magically fall off

[cmoore]

Great!! Tell us all about your strategies so we can learn from them and use them!

read this one too.

http://dynamicduotraining.com/dynami...eight-keeping/

[bob1776]

Are 6pack abs even healthy?
More from Dr Aragon:


Yes or no, to get to those lower abs, you'd need to lose a bit more fat. Stated above ad nausum: caloric deficit.

FWIW, I avoid 2 week plans (working or not). IMHO quickfix = temporary results.

Just tweak your plan to find what really moves the scale & reflection where you want it to go, in a sustainable long-term fashion.

Also, I've found fat phobia to be counter-productive. In the last 2 months, I've increased my fat & protein, and have made noticable improvement in lean muscle and lost 5lbs. Sorry everyone, I know I'm not supposed to gain muscle & lose fat at the same time. Maybe I caught a case of delayed onset noob-gains. Enjoying it while it lasts.

My macors: 1.2p, 1.2c, .5f / lb bw, at a slight deficit. Slow and steady.

[DougBarger]

Just another way to diet and that's where you need to leave it. Pulling out carbs and sodium sheds water weight. It doesn't blast away fat in a matter of a couple weeks. For your information we need sodium on a daily basis to keep our electrolytes in proper balance. You can't spot reduce. If you carry more fat in certain areas, those areas will always be the last to lean out.

I can go into a calorie deficit, not cut out any foods and still get lean/ripped.

Why would anyone want to cut out certain foods when they don't have to?

Yes, those stubborn areas are the last to lean out. When you temporarily lower the carbs and fat, while continuing to work the muscles in those areas, not only do those muscles develop more (you did train them right? of course, so they will develop) so they become more visible, but when the body looks for calories to burn, it will eventually burn that fat around the belly area as well as all over the body if you don't give it much else to burn instead. It's not going to skip that area when it burns fat.

It's true no one "has" to cut out certain foods, but if the goal is to lose fat, there's no harm in cleaning up the diet by removing junk foods.

I stated it was simply a way to diet in order to provide clarity because it was obvious JerryB misconstrued what I had written with his false accusations about claims of spot reducing which I never made.

Bottom line, no matter where in the body the fat is, if you reduce calories in the kitchen and burn them in the gym, you will lose weight.

That's just basic weight loss. Where the difference is, is the quality of the calories you consume.

You can reduce calories all you want, but if all you eat is pure fat, you'll continue to carry it.

You can't feed on fat excessively and expect to not carry fat no matter how much lean muscle mass you lose because you ate at a deficit.

[DougBarger]

Just to make something 100% clear for you so you don't continue to try to put words in my mouth that I didn't say, I never said you could spot reduce.

There was no fallacy in what I shared.

However, what I did say was even the most stubborn fat can be burned with modifications to your diet and exercise. And that is true. Nothing fallacious about it.
I speak truth.

It takes more than just eating at a caloric deficit to attack fat. The quality of calories that you do eat is important also.

If someone consumes 4000 calories a day then reduces that to 2000 calories of only fat, then they will lose weight, but the weight they maintain will result in a body recomposition with more fat.

Thank you for the negative reps. I commented to OP you cannot spot reduce as claimed by DougBarger. Others also commented on the fallacies of DougBarger comments.

I know a little about reducing subcutaneous fat.

[silverlightning]

Here's a quick write-up I did about 4 years ago on how to get your abs visible that worked for me. I'll repost it here for you and hopefully you'll find something in it you're not doing and can use to help you get where you want to be. Please pardon misspellings and grammatical errors. I wrote it in a hurry.


Basically, your #1 enemy is the layer of fat that can cover your abs and keep them hidden or less defined than you'd like.

So the way we combat this enemy is by developing your abdominal muscles while at the same time limiting your fat intake combined with some concentrated exercises you can do easily so you give it the double-whammy.

Here's what I mean in more practical terms:

1. Nutrition: If you still want to build muscle mass while remaining cut, what worked for me is to increase my protein intake while drastically reducing my fat intake.

Remember, foods high in protein have the amino acids that build your muscles, so protein will help you build lean muscle mass.

At the same time, you want to examine what foods that are high in fat you are currently eating and see if you can eliminate those from your diet for awhile.

I like to eat the following foods for this:

*boneless, skinless chicken breasts

(About 29 grams of protein per breast with less than even a gram of fat)

*white albacore tuna

(about 15 grams of protein per serving with less than a couple of grams of fat)

*dried egg whites

(1 cup of the powder mixed with 1.5 cup of water can be mixed into a drinking glass
and contains 36 grams of protein= the equivalent of 12 egg whites with zero fat, carbs or sugars)

Your body can burn carbs into sugar and use it for energy.

However, if you lower your carbs and sugar and virtually eliminate taking in fat,
your body will look for something to burn for energy.

When it can't find it because you didn't eat any new fat or load up with a bunch of carbs or sugar,

it can go into survival mode and start burning that layer of fat that covers your abs!

(So I guess it's kind of a biochemical breakdown strategy here)

You can still eat 2 boneless, skinless chicken breasts, have some broccoli and some egg whites, some white albacore tuna, drink some unsweet tea, coffee or water for a meal and feel full.

Doing this basically loads you up with the protein you need while you've put
ZERO fat, ZERO sugar and virtually ZERO carbs!

So you're packing on lean muscle while forcing your body to burn the fats you had stored back when you were eating more of them.

Still with me so far?

Great!

Almost there...

You may want to only try this kind of hardcore high protein low carb, no fat diet
for a week or two...and you'll begin to notice some results!

*Tips: Some say high amounts of sodium can "bloat" your belly so you will want to avoid sodium where you can too. Also, you'll notice when you have drank a lot of water it can bloat your belly down in that tough spot too, but not for too long. Keep drinking water anyway!


You can also drink a few of those whey isolate protein shakes to increase the lean muscle mass even more.

You'll also want to take a good multi-vitamin to replete your body with some nutrients you would miss otherwise.

Okay, that's good for now on nutrition.

Alright, time for those concentrated exercises.

2. Exercises:

Some of the most stubborn belly fat that robs you of your ab definition is that little "pooch"
at the bottom where the last 2 muscles of your 8 pack should be.

To get rid of that, you can begin to build your lower abs more with exercises combined with the right nutrition to really make them more visible.

Weighted abdominal crunches are great. You have a machine that's great. If not, you can still do some great exercises to target those abs, obliques and intercostals.

The main thing to remember is that your hips need to raise up while you're doing the exercises in order to fully contract the ab muscles. Otherwise, you won't engage them enough for them to grow and show.

On top of the weighted abdominal crunches, you can get on one of those Captain's Chairs and do knee raises to your chest. To really get a good burn, you can hold a weight plate or dumbbell with your feet to raise more weight with your hips flexing upward to really get a good full strong contraction and activation of your abdominal muscles.

Personally, I do:

3 sets of 34 weighted abdominal crunches at 80 lbs. (Whenever I went 90 or much heavier, the abs were bigger than I wanted instead of cut up and symmetrical like I like them at 80, but your mileage may vary when you find what works best for your own body.)

--3 sets of 35 knee raises every other day and sometimes on consecutive days.

Another exercise I do is decline crunches. (I usually only do 50 of those.)

You can put your hands on each side of your head with elbows out and then touch your left elbow to your right knee at the end of your rep on your crunches and alternate with the right elbow to the left knee on the next rep, continuing every other rep like this to get your obliques worked too. (This also helps you get those lines that "lead down" the women go crazy about.)


Now if you really want to take it into higher gear and get results more quickly,

--lay down on your back and raise your legs up with feet together, hold it 5 seconds then lower just above the floor for 5 seconds (without touching the floor) then raise them back up for another 5 seconds, lower and repeat...

(Do as many of these as you can.)

...35 per set is another good amount to shoot for with 3 sets on these too.

You'll really begin to feel the burn and that's what you want!

--Lastly, you can jump on the treadmill for about half an hour maintaining a speed of between 3.5 and 4.0 miles per hour with an incline of about 5.

(Do this for 30 minutes and follow it up with a glass of water.



That's it! Just do this routine every other day and you're about to be very pleased with your new abs.

What I just shared with you here is exactly how I developed my abs in just a few short weeks.

You'll begin to see results by the end of your first 5 days so
be tough, do it and stick it out!

(It's actually quite possible you'll see results much quicker, but this is just to give you some good realistic expectations.)

Every single one of my training partners who has followed my routine here,
has a nice 6 pack to show for their efforts too.

There's no reason in the world why you can't do the same and then come back here and post your results!

Hope this helps.

you are basically saying anyone can get visible abs based on your formula while disregarding body fat percentage. in essence, spot reduction.

can you post pictures of your abs and also of people that have tried your formula?

[JerryB]

Just to make something 100% clear for you so you don't continue to try to put words in my mouth that I didn't say, I never said you could spot reduce.

There was no fallacy in what I shared.

However, what I did say was even the most stubborn fat can be burned with modifications to your diet and exercise. And that is true. Nothing fallacious about it.
I speak truth.

It takes more than just eating at a caloric deficit to attack fat. The quality of calories that you do eat is important also.

If someone consumes 4000 calories a day then reduces that to 2000 calories of only fat, then they will lose weight, but the weight they maintain will result in a body recomposition with more fat.

The body determines where to obtain energy from adipose tissue as you continue your diet deficit. What you call stubborn fat is when the body has approached a point for lipid metabolism to occur in that area.

In regards to your example of someone consuming 4000 calories and assuming their daily activity requires 4000 calories, reducing their caloric input to 2000 calories of fat and maintaining the same daily activity will not recompose with more fat. They will exhaust their glycogen store, deplete their stored lipids and metabolize their muscle protein. They will have less fat and less muscle mass.

[Mojoke]

You come off a troll and I can't believe what I just read.

JerryB happens to be a well respected member in this section. He's constantly helping and giving out valuable information to members on a regular basis.

Getting lean comes down to sticking to a proper calorie deficit, tracking everything on a food scale and going the distance. It's actually quite simple. There's no magic behind it.

Well Kimm4,

Let me summarize for you how it actually went here, since it seems you've missed a few things in the discussion.

1) I gave positive comments to DougBarger for his excellent contribution to this discussion
2) Next your friend Jerry comes in, calling me simple (yes my credulity here) which is actually an insult based on absolutely nothing since he doesn't know me at all
3) I just state the fact that I don't appreciate his insults, I'm simply defending myself
4) your friend Jerry claims to have great knowledge about subcutaneous fat.
5) I, again friendly, invite him to express his ways and share his knowledge with this community
6) sadly, I get no response from Jerry,

And you call me a troll??
I think you should re-read and think again. It's not because Jerry is your friend that he can do anything and come off as a troll to others!

If you want to give me bad reps for that, fine by me, I couildn't care less.
I will not accept insulting language

[Mojoke]

read this one too.

http://dynamicduotraining.com/dynami...eight-keeping/

Thank you very much for the link. Great link full of good, sound advice.
You really are an example to this community, sharing this great information.
If I could, I'd rep you again!

[kimm4]

Well Kimm4,

Let me summarize for you how it actually went here, since it seems you've missed a few things in the discussion.

1) I gave positive comments to DougBarger for his excellent contribution to this discussion
2) Next your friend Jerry comes in, calling me simple (yes my credulity here) which is actually an insult based on absolutely nothing since he doesn't know me at all
3) I just state the fact that I don't appreciate his insults, I'm simply defending myself
4) your friend Jerry claims to have great knowledge about subcutaneous fat.
5) I, again friendly, invite him to express his ways and share his knowledge with this community
6) sadly, I get no response from Jerry,

And you call me a troll??
I think you should re-read and think again. It's not because Jerry is your friend that he can do anything and come off as a troll to others!

If you want to give me bad reps for that, fine by me, I couildn't care less.
I will not accept insulting language

I didn't miss anything in the discussion.

As for the excellent contrition given by Doug, I'm sorry I'm not seeing it.

[kimm4]

Yes, those stubborn areas are the last to lean out. When you temporarily lower the carbs and fat, while continuing to work the muscles in those areas, not only do those muscles develop more (you did train them right? of course, so they will develop) so they become more visible, but when the body looks for calories to burn, it will eventually burn that fat around the belly area as well as all over the body if you don't give it much else to burn instead. It's not going to skip that area when it burns fat.

It's true no one "has" to cut out certain foods, but if the goal is to lose fat, there's no harm in cleaning up the diet by removing junk foods.

I stated it was simply a way to diet in order to provide clarity because it was obvious JerryB misconstrued what I had written with his false accusations about claims of spot reducing which I never made.

Bottom line, no matter where in the body the fat is, if you reduce calories in the kitchen and burn them in the gym, you will lose weight.

That's just basic weight loss. Where the difference is, is the quality of the calories you consume.

You can reduce calories all you want, but if all you eat is pure fat, you'll continue to carry it.

You can't feed on fat excessively and expect to not carry fat no matter how much lean muscle mass you lose because you ate at a deficit.

I don't have a problem with cleaning up a diet and cutting out some junk. But you don't have to live on chicken breast, tuna, dried egg whites, zero fats, zero carbs and zero sugars to get there. You can use a wide variety of whole food sources without having to go ridiculously restricted. There is no developing and or packing on muscle (your quote in post #15) when dieting down. We're dieting down to lose fat, while preserving the muscle we carry now.

[Mojoke]

Are 6pack abs even healthy?
More from Dr Aragon:


Yes or no, to get to those lower abs, you'd need to lose a bit more fat. Stated above ad nausum: caloric deficit.

FWIW, I avoid 2 week plans (working or not). IMHO quickfix = temporary results.

Just tweak your plan to find what really moves the scale & reflection where you want it to go, in a sustainable long-term fashion.

Also, I've found fat phobia to be counter-productive. In the last 2 months, I've increased my fat & protein, and have made noticable improvement in lean muscle and lost 5lbs. Sorry everyone, I know I'm not supposed to gain muscle & lose fat at the same time. Maybe I caught a case of delayed onset noob-gains. Enjoying it while it lasts.

My macors: 1.2p, 1.2c, .5f / lb bw, at a slight deficit. Slow and steady.

Thanks for sharing this, when I check your macro's, that seems like a low(ish) carb diet. These diets typically have less carbs than normal and higher fat than normal... with normal being what is generally advised as a standard diet.
I'm currently using this approach myself with good results.

The key however, as also stated in the article linked by Cmoore, will be manageing the transition to maintenance when comming out of the cut to avoid rapid fat increase.

[JerryB]

Well Kimm4,

Let me summarize for you how it actually went here, since it seems you've missed a few things in the discussion.

1) I gave positive comments to DougBarger for his excellent contribution to this discussion
2) Next your friend Jerry comes in, calling me simple (yes my credulity here) which is actually an insult based on absolutely nothing since he doesn't know me at all
3) I just state the fact that I don't appreciate his insults, I'm simply defending myself
4) your friend Jerry claims to have great knowledge about subcutaneous fat.
5) I, again friendly, invite him to express his ways and share his knowledge with this community
6) sadly, I get no response from Jerry,

And you call me a troll??
I think you should re-read and think again. It's not because Jerry is your friend that he can do anything and come off as a troll to others!

If you want to give me bad reps for that, fine by me, I couildn't care less.
I will not accept insulting language

I made no claim to great knowledge about subcutaneous fat. Please point it out in my comments. I was assuming it was common knowledge that subcutaneous fat reduction in the middle section may be the last area affected by a deficit diet. I apologize for the sharp comment, since it appears not to be common knowledge. It was a knee jerk reaction to reps to DougBarger, who is advocating spot reduction. If you think DougBarger is contributing excellent information to the discussion, I have nothing more to state. Good Luck.

[DougBarger]

I made no claim to great knowledge about subcutaneous fat. Please point it out in my comments. I was assuming it was common knowledge that subcutaneous fat reduction in the middle section may be the last area affected by a deficit diet. I apologize for the sharp comment, since it appears not to be common knowledge. It was a knee jerk reaction to reps to DougBarger, who is advocating spot reduction. If you think DougBarger is contributing excellent information to the discussion, I have nothing more to state. Good Luck.

As I already made quite clear, I never advocated spot reduction, simply fat reduction.

I also shared what worked for me and exactly how I did it. I'm not going to post my progress pics in here, but they can be seen on my profile.

Contrary to those who said you can't develop muscle while losing fat, I did just that. Lean body mass increased while body fat percentage decreased while muscle size and strength grew.

[DougBarger]

you are basically saying anyone can get visible abs based on your formula while disregarding body fat percentage. in essence, spot reduction.

can you post pictures of your abs and also of people that have tried your formula?

Not at all.

If you read, you'll see that body fat percentage wasn't disregarded at all, but was lowered with the double-whammy of nutritional and weight training modifications supplied.

[EjnarKolinkar]

Thanks for sharing this, when I check your macro's, that seems like a low(ish) carb diet. These diets typically have less carbs than normal and higher fat than normal... with normal being what is generally advised as a standard diet.
I'm currently using this approach myself with good results.

The key however, as also stated in the article linked by Cmoore, will be manageing the transition to maintenance when comming out of the cut to avoid rapid fat increase.

Strong nonsense post.

The only thing Bob need do in a small deficit is increase calories slightly to no longer be in a small deficit. There wont be any rapid fat increase.

.5g per pound of fat is normal, 1.2 g protein fine for dieting, satiety, preference. And 180g carbs is hardly a low carb diet.

[GKC45]

I can't help but notice that we have a guy in a cheap suit (using a two year old picture of former glory) and another guy with no avatar, both arguing with a guy who is obviously an experienced competitor and a very fit attractive woman who obviously knows quite a bit. Which pair do I find more credible....

Of course, I am just a fat guy making an observation here. But I know who I would take advice from.

[DougBarger]

I can't help but notice that we have a guy in a cheap suit (using a two year old picture of former glory) and another guy with no avatar, both arguing with a guy who is obviously an experienced competitor and a very fit attractive woman who obviously knows quite a bit. Which pair do I find more credible....

Of course, I am just a fat guy making an observation here. But I know who I would take advice from.

You could easily not notice that, because that's not the truth. I contributed a response to someone asking how to get rid of a layer of fat with my own personal experience that worked.

I didn't argue at all. Simply provided my experience to someone who asked for help.

It was well received.

Only then did someone pop in here arguing and being antagonistic.

If you want results you haven't had yet, it's not unwise to see what's worked for others.

The only people who argued were the ones who misinterpreted my experience and took certain parts of it and blew it out of proportion as if someone who had an experience that differed from the way they did it was some kind of threat or something.

I know what worked for me and didn't mind sharing.

And if there's something to be noticed, it's that when I shared my experience, it wasn't in a negative response to someone else who posted their own.

Cheap suit? More like cheap shot.

Oh and the latter glory is greater than the former.

Take advice from whoever you want.

Someone asked for ideas on how to do something and I shared one of mine that worked from experience and produces results.

You can't argue successfully against results and experience and it doesn't get any more credible than something that works.

My custom suits have as much to do with the discussion as any of the ad hominem.

Exactly.

[AaronLChacon]

I've really gotten into fitness and health in the past 4 years and I've gone from 180 lbs. to 150 lbs., and reduced my waist size significantly. But I still have a thin annoying layer of fat around my mid-section that I can't seem to lose.

I can't tell if it's my diet that's now wrong for my new weight or the portion sizes, but I've plateaued. I haven't gained any weight, so my new eating lifestyle is working to keep me where I want to be and I'm still exercising everyday, but I can't seem to figure out what I need to do to tighten up my abs section.

And I don't need to increase my abs workouts, because I do have abs, they are just hidden. Does anyone know how to get a chiseled mid-section?

BTW, I'm 55, 5' 7", male.

Good to hear that you are to fit in your age. You should also consider a diet plan and you should also engage more on physical activities like sports. It's also important to select diet plans that focus on healthy weight loss and avoid fad diets.

[Mojoke]

Strong nonsense post.

The only thing Bob need do in a small deficit is increase calories slightly to no longer be in a small deficit. There wont be any rapid fat increase.

.5g per pound of fat is normal, 1.2 g protein fine for dieting, satiety, preference. And 180g carbs is hardly a low carb diet.

Never said it was low, said it was low(ish)

standard intake for a cut for carbs would be around 2gr or over per pound depending on caloric needs left when protein and fat intake is met, fat would be around 0.3gr per pound with protein circling around 1gr per pound. In that sense, yes, this diet is lower in carbs and higher in fat. you can check macro/calorie calculators for that.
Of course it's not written in stone and you should see what works best for you.

there are other methods like described in the links from cmoore using a lot more protein, in which case your carbs would end up lower. it comes down to personal preference in the end. What you feel most comfortable with and can adhere to

[Mojoke]

I can't help but notice that we have a guy in a cheap suit (using a two year old picture of former glory) and another guy with no avatar, both arguing with a guy who is obviously an experienced competitor and a very fit attractive woman who obviously knows quite a bit. Which pair do I find more credible....

Of course, I am just a fat guy making an observation here. But I know who I would take advice from.

Looks can be deceiving... no offense

[ironwill2008]

You can't argue successfully against results and experience and it doesn't get any more credible than something that works.

I agree 100%.

And since this is basically a bodybuilding site, where appearance speaks much louder than words in a dozen posts, post a pic of your results.

[bob1776]

I can't help but notice that we have a guy in a cheap suit (using a two year old picture of former glory) and another guy with no avatar, both arguing with a guy who is obviously an experienced competitor and a very fit attractive woman who obviously knows quite a bit. Which pair do I find more credible....

Of course, I am just a fat guy making an observation here. But I know who I would take advice from.

And OP left the thread 4 days ago

[JerryB]

As I already made quite clear, I never advocated spot reduction, simply fat reduction.

I also shared what worked for me and exactly how I did it. I'm not going to post my progress pics in here, but they can be seen on my profile.

Contrary to those who said you can't develop muscle while losing fat, I did just that. Lean body mass increased while body fat percentage decreased while muscle size and strength grew.

Looking at your progress pics from Nov 15, 2010 to Mar 18, 2012 I saw no significant change in muscle mass and only minor reduction in middle section subcutaneous fat.

[erikhaber]

What seems to work for me is to add back some calories when my cut stalls, then after a while, when i'm maybe not even expecting it, i'll feel like eating at a deficit again and be able to lose even more fat. the fat in the abs takes patience to fully get rid of, but this is how i'm going about it. not fully there yet but i am seeing results.

[DocHoss]

I can go into a calorie deficit, not cut out any foods and still get lean/ripped.

Why would anyone want to cut out certain foods when they don't have to?

I got lean (maybe not ripped, but not too bad for a 50-yo geek) by being disciplined with my diet. I didn't cut out anything, I never felt deprived, I even had chocolate nearly every day.

And since this is basically a bodybuilding site, where appearance speaks much louder than words in a dozen posts, post a pic of your results.

Exactly what I wanted to ask!

DougBarger, you recently raised your BF level from 5% to 8%. I'd really like to see what either of those looks like. I don't think my abs are any worse than yours, even though I never tested below 13% and currently estimate 15%. 5% must be mind-blowing!