Should i cut yet?

[ExecChefnj]

Ok so here is the background ... Jan 1 I was 207 lbs and skinny fat, and way out of shape. started with diet and cardio until march at which time I began weight training. on June 1 I had cut all the way down to 155 lbs and 6.5% body fat (Inbody bio impediance scale at gym). At that time I felt like I NEEDED some mass, desperately. Went maintenance for 2 weeks then started a bulk, 500 to 750 calories above maintenance, and have made some significant strength and muscle gains. At this point I am overall very happy with my progress, but I am back up to 12.5% body fat now at a weight of 179 lbs. How high should I let my bfp get before I cut again and should it be the determinate factor? As a side bar, I have not yet gained the amount of muscle I would like to and still want to get bigger, I am just concerned about letting my bfp get out of hand. If and when I do cut again, it would just be so cycle again. Any and all input would be great. Thanks in advance for your help. I have added pics to my bodyspace if you need.

[Luclin999]

1. Due to daily, even hourly changes to overall hydration, Bio Impedance scales are notoriously inaccurate for determining BF percentages. So in essence the numbers that you are basing much of your plans upon are inherently flawed.

2. Your pictures are pretty fuzzy making it hard to tell exactly what your BF percentage is but in general the rule is to bulk until you are up to about 15% and then cut from there down to 12% and repeat the cycle until you are satisfied with where you are.

[21infantry]

1. Due to daily, even hourly changes to overall hydration, Bio Impedance scales are notoriously inaccurate for determining BF percentages. So in essence the numbers that you are basing much of your plans upon are inherently flawed.

2. Your pictures are pretty fuzzy making it hard to tell exactly what your BF percentage is but in general the rule is to bulk until you are up to about 15% and then cut from there down to 12% and repeat the cycle until you are satisfied with where you are.

Who the hell bulks from 12% to 15%, its offseason, crappy weather in the future, I say bulk all winter long, hell if you hit 20% BF when March hits your golden, just start your cut. You will be juicy as hell.

Looked at your pics, even at 12% you look anorexic IMO, bulk and bulk some more, so you gain fat but if your pushing yourself in the Gym most of that would be muscle. At 200lbs yo will be a monster bro. Cut to 190 and your good. I don't understand personally what the obsession with looking frail like paris hilton is with guys. No need to go below 15% BF.

[ExecChefnj]

Hey guys. thanks for the replies. @Luclin - I know about the shady history of bio impediance scales, I use it as a barometer of up and down for bfp, more than an exact reading. I also use the 7 site skin fold test as well every few weeks to track progress. It is usually within a couple of percent tho. I also use the mirror as a big guide to where i stand.

@ 21Infantry - What you are saying has been the lingering thought in my mind. I want that muscle mass as i feel I am too small as well. With as out of shape as I was, I felt at the time, I wanted to strip off all of the excess fat to put it back on as quality muscle. The flip side to it is my vanity kicks in once in a while and my abs are really covering up and my waist is up a size. I know that is part of the game, and I know i can take that fat off when i cut, I just dont want to get too out of hand. Just want to make sure i Keep moving Forward, not back. As far as the Gym goes, I am lifing hard and heavy for me. i make improvements in weight and reps on a regular basis, and try to push the envelope as much as possible.

[induced_drag]

Who the hell bulks from 12% to 15%, its offseason, crappy weather in the future, I say bulk all winter long, hell if you hit 20% BF when March hits your golden, just start your cut. You will be juicy as hell.

I personally would never run a surplus up that high. 20%bf is pretty damn high once you have gotten down close to 10%. I never went much above 15% ish.

The tell will be how your body lays down the fat. If you track it, it is easy to see when the direction needs to be reversed. You will notice sub-q picking up at an increased rate. This is bad as sub-q is A LOT harder to shed then simple VAT. Increases in waist are not that big a deal. When you see the abdominal skinfolds picking up....that is when you need to pay attention and be ready to switch directions. (my opinion)

[highiso]

I personally would never run a surplus up that high. 20%bf is pretty damn high once you have gotten down close to 10%. I never went much above 15% ish.

The tell will be how your body lays down the fat. If you track it, it is easy to see when the direction needs to be reversed. You will notice sub-q picking up at an increased rate. This is bad as sub-q is A LOT harder to shed then simple VAT. Increases in waist are not that big a deal. When you see the abdominal skinfolds picking up....that is when you need to pay attention and be ready to switch directions. (my opinion)

Totally this.^ I've done the bulk to over 15% for the past 4 years. While I've made steady progress I've learned that cutting 20-25+ lbs. every spring is no picnic and it never gets easier. Why would you want to cut that much weight when you could cut half of that each year with the same net results?

[ExecChefnj]

Great point about the difficulties in losing Sub-q fat as opposed to VAT. You happen to be right on the money, as far as my abdominal skin fold has been steadily increasing over my last several measurements. The spare tire, like many guys, is my bodys go to when it wants to store extra fat.

So I guess that leaves me in a precarious situation.... bulk a little longer up to 15 or so and then cut? Or just cut now?, and have some time in 60 days or so to resume a winter bulk cycle from Dec 15 to April 15? Thoughts?

[JerryB]

What amount of muscle gains can you make in just two weeks? The BIO impedance is an unreliable method to measure body fat. You need to go to the bodybuilding.com webpage below for assistance in determining your calories needs. In my opinion looking at your profile photo cutting is out of the question. Are you assuming there will be no muscle mass loss if you go on a cut. If you want to look lean with thin skin you are on the right path.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=156380183

[ExecChefnj]

Hey Jerry - Thanks for the post. i guess to start off, lean use to be my goal, but when i got there i looked in the mirror and realized it was not where i wanted to be. I have changed gears to put weight back on, hopefully mostly quality mass. I do realize that in the course of losing fat that the price would be at the cost of some muscle as well. Conversely, i also understand while building muscle i am going to put on some fat as well. As far as nutrition, I have a pretty good handle on the nutrition aspect of my body building journey. As i went to culinary school I took many classes on nutrition and its effects on the body. I have been able to manipulate my macros nutrients caloric needs, insulin sensetativity , use of the glycemic index, etc, etc, to hit goals i have set for myself thus far. I am by no means saying that i am an expert, but so far my diet seems to be a strong point for me. As I read what all of you guys are saying I am seeing that cutting is not for me yet. I think i am going to stay on the bulk for now.

[kimm4]

I personally would never run a surplus up that high. 20%bf is pretty damn high once you have gotten down close to 10%. I never went much above 15% ish.

In this case I agree with Infantry. You can't compare yourself to the OP. He's taller, thin and looks to have longer limbs. With his body type he could continue to build going over 15% and get away with it.

[JerryB]

Hey Jerry - Thanks for the post. i guess to start off, lean use to be my goal, but when i got there i looked in the mirror and realized it was not where i wanted to be. I have changed gears to put weight back on, hopefully mostly quality mass. I do realize that in the course of losing fat that the price would be at the cost of some muscle as well. Conversely, i also understand while building muscle i am going to put on some fat as well. As far as nutrition, I have a pretty good handle on the nutrition aspect of my body building journey. As i went to culinary school I took many classes on nutrition and its effects on the body. I have been able to manipulate my macros nutrients caloric needs, insulin sensetativity , use of the glycemic index, etc, etc, to hit goals i have set for myself thus far. I am by no means saying that i am an expert, but so far my diet seems to be a strong point for me. As I read what all of you guys are saying I am seeing that cutting is not for me yet. I think i am going to stay on the bulk for now.

With your culinary school background you should have no problem adding muscle mass and controlling your body fat. Congrats on the weight loss from the 207 lbs. I would appreciate a little insight on the diet and cardio. Thanks

[bob1776]

Hey Jerry - Thanks for the post. i guess to start off, lean use to be my goal, but when i got there i looked in the mirror and realized it was not where i wanted to be. I have changed gears to put weight back on, hopefully mostly quality mass. I do realize that in the course of losing fat that the price would be at the cost of some muscle as well. Conversely, i also understand while building muscle i am going to put on some fat as well. As far as nutrition, I have a pretty good handle on the nutrition aspect of my body building journey. As i went to culinary school I took many classes on nutrition and its effects on the body. I have been able to manipulate my macros nutrients caloric needs, insulin sensetativity , use of the glycemic index, etc, etc, to hit goals i have set for myself thus far. I am by no means saying that i am an expert, but so far my diet seems to be a strong point for me. As I read what all of you guys are saying I am seeing that cutting is not for me yet. I think i am going to stay on the bulk for now.

Honestly I don't understand the either bulk or cut choice you seem to be giving yourself, what's the hurry? I've been at a slight deficit for a couple of months (~300 calories), and have lost 3-4 pounds. I'm eating plenty of protein (200g) and fat (85g) and have been increasing strength. I can see a noticeable improvement in muscle and have also lost some fat. I'd consider eating closer to maintenance, and have some patience. Then adjust as needed.

[EjnarKolinkar]

I've learned that cutting 20-25+ lbs. every spring is no picnic and it never gets easier.

SRS

Why not smooth it out a bit OP? Mass gain a little slower, and have shorter cuts as a plan.

[TiberiusClaudis]

Prior to competing I was of the like mind of bulking up to 15% and then cutting. A few years back I bulked up to 22% and it took me 8 months to get down to single digits. Swear I'd never do that again.

Now that I compete, my PT prefers that I bulk up to only 9-10% BF in the off season. I'm right there now...bummer as I now have to cut in order to eat during the holidays. But after getting close to 4%BF, at 10% I feel like Shamu.

Bottomline: Let the mirror be your guide is my vote

[Jasonk282]

Ok so here is the background ... Jan 1 I was 207 lbs and skinny fat, and way out of shape. started with diet and cardio until march at which time I began weight training. on June 1 I had cut all the way down to 155 lbs and 6.5% body fat (Inbody bio impediance scale at gym). At that time I felt like I NEEDED some mass, desperately. Went maintenance for 2 weeks then started a bulk, 500 to 750 calories above maintenance, and have made some significant strength and muscle gains. At this point I am overall very happy with my progress, but I am back up to 12.5% body fat now at a weight of 179 lbs. How high should I let my bfp get before I cut again and should it be the determinate factor? As a side bar, I have not yet gained the amount of muscle I would like to and still want to get bigger, I am just concerned about letting my bfp get out of hand. If and when I do cut again, it would just be so cycle again. Any and all input would be great. Thanks in advance for your help. I have added pics to my bodyspace if you need.

Bulk 15 lbs, cut 10 that way you're slowly adding weight each time while keeping fat pretty low.

[highiso]

Prior to competing I was of the like mind of bulking up to 15% and then cutting. A few years back I bulked up to 22% and it took me 8 months to get down to single digits. Swear I'd never do that again.

Now that I compete, my PT prefers that I bulk up to only 9-10% BF in the off season. I'm right there now...bummer as I now have to cut in order to eat during the holidays. But after getting close to 4%BF, at 10% I feel like Shamu.

Bottomline: Let the mirror be your guide is my vote

I totally agree with this.^ 20% BF is pretty fat IMO and it takes a huge amount of dedication to cut from there to single digits, especially if you plan on doing that year after year. It gets old, trust me. I too am dieting back down to 8% so I can enjoy a little more in the upcoming holidays.

[ExecChefnj]

I totally agree with this.^ 20% BF is pretty fat IMO and it takes a huge amount of dedication to cut from there to single digits, especially if you plan on doing that year after year. It gets old, trust me. I too am dieting back down to 8% so I can enjoy a little more in the upcoming holidays.

I agree. I would feel very uncomfortable at 20%. Cant see myself going much above 15 or so.

[ExecChefnj]

[QUOTE=JerryB;1302190821]With your culinary school background you should have no problem adding muscle mass and controlling your body fat. Congrats on the weight loss from the 207 lbs. I would appreciate a little insight on the diet and cardio. Thanks[30 -

guess i will start with the easy part, the dreaded cardio. While on my cut i utilized steady state cardio, plain old running on the tread mill. Usually 30 - 45 minutes after lifting, 5 days a week. I know the new thing is HIIT for fat loss, but I feel for me the steady state worked extremely well. Beyond that I also practice Okinawan Ju-Jit-Su, great form of cardio IMO, and also run around after my 2 year old all evening lol.

So here we go - Diet - It starts for me by counting macros. while on my cut I found that a macro split of 40 P / 35 C / 25 F was the sweet spot for me any less Carbs and fat and i found that i was too tired an sluggish in the gym to get a good workout, any more and i found it more difficult to lose weight. I found a baseline BMR, using several BMR calculators found on the internet, for myself and adjusted it over several weeks to accommodate my active job and life style. Further more I made it a priority to minimize all added sugars in my diet and also to minimize foods high on the glycemic index. Fruit Juice was one of the hardest things for me, although I did keep whole fruit in my diet at all times. I ate 3 regular sized meals a day and 2 smaller sized meals. I worked at a 750 to 1000 calorie deficit. Supplementation wise, i was very simple. A mulit vitamin, Pre workout, a protein shake after my workout, and a casein shake before bed.

This is my qualifier to all of this. It worked for me. It took ALOT of experimentation, and lucky guesses to make it work. I tried to cram 5 months of work into a couple of short paragraphs, so if I missed something just let me know.

[kconnell]

Ok so here is the background ... Jan 1 I was 207 lbs and skinny fat, and way out of shape. started with diet and cardio until march at which time I began weight training. on June 1 I had cut all the way down to 155 lbs and 6.5% body fat (Inbody bio impediance scale at gym). At that time I felt like I NEEDED some mass, desperately. Went maintenance for 2 weeks then started a bulk, 500 to 750 calories above maintenance, and have made some significant strength and muscle gains. At this point I am overall very happy with my progress, but I am back up to 12.5% body fat now at a weight of 179 lbs. How high should I let my bfp get before I cut again and should it be the determinate factor? As a side bar, I have not yet gained the amount of muscle I would like to and still want to get bigger, I am just concerned about letting my bfp get out of hand. If and when I do cut again, it would just be so cycle again. Any and all input would be great. Thanks in advance for your help. I have added pics to my bodyspace if you need.

What are you wanting to cut for? A contest?, then OK. If not and you intend on gaining more, then will defeat your purpose while you cut. 12.5% is not too high if you are gaining.

Let the mirror be your guide. If your abs disappear, you've overdone it.