First transformation...Anyone help with the diet?

[time2getmovin]

So I am 194 at 23% bodyfat as you can see in the pic. I am going to try to gain as much muscle as I can before shedding. I was told I would naturally shed some during the program I am going to follow but I wanted your thoughts on the diet. This is a sample of a off day. If I was on I would add 2 scoops of 2:1 recovery to add 430 cal,70g carbs and 35g protein and 1 gram of fat after the workout.

7am: 4 eggs, 1 packet of weight control oatmeal,1bananna

10am 1 scoop whey, 2 slices Ezkiel bread

1pm 6oz chicken,1 cup brown rice,1cup green beans, 1tbs olive oil

4pm 6oz sirloin,1 cup brown rice,1cup green beans

7pm 6oz chicken,1 cup brown rice,1cup green beans, 1tbs olive oil

10pm 1 scoop of whey

2688 cal 227g protein 256g carbs and 82g fat

What do you guys think?

[angrypenguin54]

Still not sure what your goal is, bulk prior to cutting or transformation?

At 23% BF, I would start at 10 to 20% under your TDEE and calculate your macros from there.

Meal frequency and timing doesnt matter much, most would argue any, as long as you are eating at least a couple times during the day and especially around your workout.

Top of my head that is too much at your stats.

I would start with 2200 calories, around 150g of protein, around 80g of fat and the balance of whatever to get to your calories.

Look to lose 1 lb a week and adjust 10% either way to achieve after the first 2 to 3 weeks. You should be able to get to around 15% BF and put some muscle on at the same time.

Once you get to around 15% you can decide if you want to continue cutting with which you will need to tighten up your plan to maintain muscle or go on a bulk.

[time2getmovin]

Still not sure what your goal is, bulk prior to cutting or transformation?

At 23% BF, I would start at 10 to 20% under your TDEE and calculate your macros from there.

Meal frequency and timing doesnt matter much, most would argue any, as long as you are eating at least a couple times during the day and especially around your workout.

Top of my head that is too much at your stats.

I would start with 2200 calories, around 150g of protein, around 80g of fat and the balance of whatever to get to your calories.

Look to lose 1 lb a week and adjust 10% either way to achieve after the first 2 to 3 weeks. You should be able to get to around 15% BF and put some muscle on at the same time.

Once you get to around 15% you can decide if you want to continue cutting with which you will need to tighten up your plan to maintain muscle or go on a bulk.

My goal is to actually bulk prior to cutting since winter is coming and not worried about what I look like? Do you think its possible to do that or is my bodyfat to high? Thanks for the help

[hmmmm16417]

Still not sure what your goal is, bulk prior to cutting or transformation?

At 23% BF, I would start at 10 to 20% under your TDEE and calculate your macros from there.

Meal frequency and timing doesnt matter much, most would argue any, as long as you are eating at least a couple times during the day and especially around your workout.

Top of my head that is too much at your stats.

I would start with 2200 calories, around 150g of protein, around 80g of fat and the balance of whatever to get to your calories.

Look to lose 1 lb a week and adjust 10% either way to achieve after the first 2 to 3 weeks. You should be able to get to around 15% BF and put some muscle on at the same time.

Once you get to around 15% you can decide if you want to continue cutting with which you will need to tighten up your plan to maintain muscle or go on a bulk.

^^this^^

OP, I would just work out hard and do 2200-2300 calories. being a noob, you will gain a bit of muscle (looks) and you will definitely lose some fat. overall, you will appear bigger and gain some good strength.

all depends on what your goals are. if you "bulk" over winter and then "cut" , you may end up back at the same weight as if you would just "cut" now and get a more defined look

good luck either way

[TiberiusClaudis]

Totally agree with both of the posts above.

I would never think about bulking again if I was 15% or higher.

[Soundastic]

Had to reply, since I am/was close to your situation. I am 5'9'', started dieting at exactly 194lbs (88kgs) and about 27% BF a few months ago, and started working out at the gym a little over a month ago. I am now at 79kg and around 21% BF (btw, I think your current BF% is more then 23%, based on my previous measurements and your current stats, unless you are pretty muscular already). To be fair, I am pretty drastic with my caliper measurements, I pull those fat folds as thick as I can when I measure, so I may be off with my BF measurements...or you may :-) depending on how you measure.
Now, let me tell you this, you are in the ideal situation to lose fat and gain some muscle at the same time, do not make the mistake of just bulking (which you certainly can given that you, as I, are a newbie at lifting, I assume). Because you will end up with a lot more muscle (a good thing, of course) but with more fat too, which you will have to drop eventually, and you can't do that without a drastic caloric deficit and maintenance training (see where I'm going? this is basically where you are now but with less fat to lose then if you bulk up first).
I can promise you if you maintain a caloric deficit and train 3x/week, you will lose fat and build muscle. I am!
Here is what I do:
-All pro's routine 3x/week
-5bx routine every evening (relevant only for flexibility, which I lacked and now I am starting to have again, irrelevant for the transformation but important for my lumbar health...those deadlifts are easier now)
-1700 cals/day a bit more on training days, sometimes a bit less on rest days. This is probably too low some would say, but it works for me because:
-I practice intermittent fasting, I eat only between 1PM and 9PM, so all those calories are concentrated in about 2 main meals and a bit of snacking in between. I never feel hunger. I also train fasted which feels awesome...wouldn't have expected that.
-I don't eat red meat (irrelevant for you, actually because you do, you will probably have even better results then me building muscle) but I track macros and supplement with whey protein.
The conclusion is that you can lose a LOT of weight and put on some muscle at this stage in your training, and it would be a shame to waste this opportunity.
I am trying to attach pictures of me, one taken on 23 August and one today 3 October...less then one month and a half, I would say not a bad progress at all. Not there yet, of course, but I shed a lot of fat and put on a little bit of muscle too.

[time2getmovin]

Well I better start cutting then. How many grams of carbs protein and fat per pound should I take in?

[Soundastic]

I installed MyFitnessPal on my phone and set macros at 85g fat, 85g carbs, 150g protein...you can go higher on protein and lower on carbs since you eat meat.
Also, if you feel up to it, try intermittent fasting. It works. It may feel weird a few days but you will get used to it soon.

[mcbourque]

Here you go:
The basics. Everything you need to set up your nutrition based in your goals:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=156380183

[michail71]

I was at your stats when I started. 20%+ body fat is way too high to be bulking. The ideal is to never be over 15%. I typically stay between 9-14%. If I were you I'd follow the first advice given and perhaps take a diet break for a month or so at maintenance when you get to 15%.

You probably need to drop much more weight than you are expecting.

[atl2axj]

Don't bulk.
I think you should follow advice above and reduce your calories to avg 1750/day (2000 on workout days; 1500 on nonworkout days) workout 3/week (Fierce 5), stretch/walk/sport on off days to reduce doms; keep your protein/fats the same and regulate your carbon intake; I kind of eat from 4pm to 11 pm but that's because it works for me to control hunger/calories intake.
I started at 243 6 weeks ago and have dropped to 218 since. I do take creatine mono based on recommendation here. I feel that fasted cardio (incline walk) helped me with DOMS, recovery, and helped burn some calories.
don't drink anything but water.
I will admit that I do have cheat meals often but since my eating window is small, I calculate and make sure I hit my fat/protein macros afterwards and move on. Its literally stress free and I'm making gains all over.
Ps I! do try to eat clean or healthier foods since I was a compulsive overater and had major portion control issues. I don't eat pizza popeyes or subway because macros of those foods would make it impossible to hit my daily macros and stay in deficit.
Pps. Just realized this was in O35. My bad. Didn't mean to impose.

[silverlightning]

you shouldn't bulk, you need to gain muscle with as little fat as possible. stop with this bulking, cutting new age fad. gain some lean muscle.

[EjnarKolinkar]

My goal is to actually bulk prior to cutting since winter is coming and not worried about what I look like? Do you think its possible to do that or is my bodyfat to high? Thanks for the help

Mass gains would be generally considered suboptimal at 23% body fat.

That said you can do as you please. If you have not spent much time consistently weight training just doing so and eating a reasonable intake is a good start.

Getting into the habit of training consistently and sticking with it leads to the real transformation.

Perhaps set a calorie target slightly to moderately below maintence and focus on the workouts.