Training Strictly For Deadlift?

[Turtora]

Serious question, sort of. I don't really care about squat or bench all that much (squat causes me physical pain due to femoral acetabular impingement syndrome [not much i can do here besides prehab work and mobility stuff for hips]), and would like to max out my deadlift as much as possible. I realize there will be some carry over from squat to deadlift, but i'd be totally fine if i was pulling 800 (dream goal) and only squatting 400.

I'm 6'9", 242-248 lbs, 8-10ish% bodyfat, 24 years old, and have been training (consistently) for 2-2.5 years. I started in 2010. My current deadlift is 495 x 1, and 405 x 8. I realize this will take a long time, and I may not ever accomplish this goal. However, deadlifting 800 lbs is a goal I have nonetheless. Obviously, I've broken it down into steps, and the next is 585. After that 675. Then 725. Honestly, I'd be ecstatic if I hit 725. Probably poop my pants.

My current programming is more on the lines of a bodybuilding style split, but I'm ready to transition back into a program that focuses on hitting bigger numbers. What would you guys suggest? I did 5-3-1 for about 7 months, and had solid success with that, but that's not as "deadlift-centric" as I feel like it could be. I realize I'm not going to pack on slabs to my deadlift just by starting up a powerlifting program again, and was looking for advice on how to proceed. Here's a program I found by Surovetsky that I'm seriously considering:

Repetitions are touch and go on day 1, while all reps are paused on the floor on day 2.

Week 1:
Day 1: 70% x 5x5
Day 2: 81% x3 - 85 x2% - 88.5% x 1,1,1

Week 2:
Day 1: 72.5% x 5x5
Day 2: 81% x3 - 85% x2 - 88.5% x 2,2,2

Week 3:
Day 1: 75% x 5x5
Day 2: 82,5% x3 - x2 97.5% - 94% x 1,1,1

Week 4:
Day 1: 77.5% x 4x4
Day 2: 82,5% x3 - x2 97.5% - 94% x 2,2,2

Week 5:
Day 1: 80% x 4x4
Day 2:84% x3 - 94 % x2 - 100% x 1,1,1

Week 6:
Day 1: 82.5% x 4x4
Day 2:84% x3 - 94 x2% - 100% x 2,2,2

Week 7:
Day 1: 85% x 3x3
Day 2: 85.5% x3 - x2 97.5% - 105% x 1,1,1

Week 8:
Day 1: 87.5% x 3x3
Day 2:85,5% x3 - 97.5% x2 - 105% x 2,2,2

Week 9:
Day 1: 90% x 2x2
Day 2: MAX

I would still squat, but it would be on maintenance. Something like 3 sets of 225 x 10 (my max is 385ish) before either heavy or rep deadlift day. Leaning toward heavy day.

Assistance lifts on deads rep day would be
pull ups (50)
seated rows (4x8)
and straight arm lat pull downs (4x12)

Assistance on heavy deads day would be
hamstring curls (4x12 A1)/leg extensions(4x12 A2)
glute/ham raises (3x30)

My week would look like:

sun - chest (emphasis on light-med weight and mmc)
mon - deads day 1 (rep)
tue -
wed -
thu - shoulders (emphasis on light-med weight and mmc)
fri - deads day 2 (heavy)
sat -

Thoughts? Am I dumb? Is this a terrible idea?

p.s. - staying natty.

[StayxCold]

Serious question, sort of. I don't really care about squat or bench all that much (squat causes me physical pain due to femoral acetabular impingement syndrome [not much i can do here besides prehab work and mobility stuff for hips]), and would like to max out my deadlift as much as possible. I realize there will be some carry over from squat to deadlift, but i'd be totally fine if i was pulling 800 (dream goal) and only squatting 400.

I'm 6'9", 242-248 lbs, 8-10ish% bodyfat, 24 years old, and have been training (consistently) for 2-2.5 years. I started in 2010. My current deadlift is 495 x 1, and 405 x 8. I realize this will take a long time, and I may not ever accomplish this goal. However, deadlifting 800 lbs is a goal I have nonetheless. Obviously, I've broken it down into steps, and the next is 585. After that 675. Then 725. Honestly, I'd be ecstatic if I hit 725. Probably poop my pants.

My current programming is more on the lines of a bodybuilding style split, but I'm ready to transition back into a program that focuses on hitting bigger numbers. What would you guys suggest? I did 5-3-1 for about 7 months, and had solid success with that, but that's not as "deadlift-centric" as I feel like it could be. I realize I'm not going to pack on slabs to my deadlift just by starting up a powerlifting program again, and was looking for advice on how to proceed. Here's a program I found by Surovetsky that I'm seriously considering:

Repetitions are touch and go on day 1, while all reps are paused on the floor on day 2.

Week 1:
Day 1: 70% x 5x5
Day 2: 81% x3 - 85 x2% - 88.5% x 1,1,1

Week 2:
Day 1: 72.5% x 5x5
Day 2: 81% x3 - 85% x2 - 88.5% x 2,2,2

Week 3:
Day 1: 75% x 5x5
Day 2: 82,5% x3 - x2 97.5% - 94% x 1,1,1

Week 4:
Day 1: 77.5% x 4x4
Day 2: 82,5% x3 - x2 97.5% - 94% x 2,2,2

Week 5:
Day 1: 80% x 4x4
Day 2:84% x3 - 94 % x2 - 100% x 1,1,1

Week 6:
Day 1: 82.5% x 4x4
Day 2:84% x3 - 94 x2% - 100% x 2,2,2

Week 7:
Day 1: 85% x 3x3
Day 2: 85.5% x3 - x2 97.5% - 105% x 1,1,1

Week 8:
Day 1: 87.5% x 3x3
Day 2:85,5% x3 - 97.5% x2 - 105% x 2,2,2

Week 9:
Day 1: 90% x 2x2
Day 2: MAX

I would still squat, but it would be on maintenance. Something like 3 sets of 225 x 10 (my max is 385ish) before either heavy or rep deadlift day. Leaning toward heavy day.

Assistance lifts on deads rep day would be
pull ups (50)
seated rows (4x8)
and straight arm lat pull downs (4x12)

Assistance on heavy deads day would be
hamstring curls (4x12 A1)/leg extensions(4x12 A2)
glute/ham raises (3x30)

My week would look like:

sun - chest (emphasis on light-med weight and mmc)
mon - deads day 1 (rep)
tue -
wed -
thu - shoulders (emphasis on light-med weight and mmc)
fri - deads day 2 (heavy)
sat -

Thoughts? Am I dumb? Is this a terrible idea?

p.s. - staying natty.

try it out, see if it works for you.

I would also recommend making 585 your next long term goal. Make it something relatively close like 495x3 (since 495 is your 1rm now) I found its easier on you mentally.

[Turtora]

try it out, see if it works for you.

I would also recommend making 585 your next long term goal. Make it something relatively close like 495x3 (since 495 is your 1rm now) I found its easier on you mentally.

Thanks for the response. Yeah, making 585 the next goal makes a lot of sense. I was thinking I'd be happy if I'm deadlifting 495 x 5 by the end of the year. I think that's pretty reasonable. I appreciate the input.

Deads went pretty well today. Was pretty light. Warmed up to 345 and then did 5x5, touch and go. Didn't really feel fatigued until the end of the last set. I don't know how I'll feel about the assistance work once things get heavy, but we'll see how it goes haha.

[phrali]

I would think you should add some kind of serious quad work in accessories if you are going to stop squatting. Maybe lunges or hack squats or even leg press. I don't think leg extensions are a great exercise but that is just my opinion. You are going to need some quads if you want to break 800 off of the floor.

[Turtora]

I would think you should add some kind of serious quad work in accessories if you are going to stop squatting. Maybe lunges or hack squats or even leg press. I don't think leg extensions are a great exercise but that is just my opinion. You are going to need some quads if you want to break 800 off of the floor.

Doing 3x10 squats at 225 pre deadlifting on the heavy days. Do you think that's reasonable? I really dislike lunges and hack squats, but I could make leg press work. Maybe 6x8-12 (3 plate, up to 8 plate) right after heavy deads? This is my first time programming around something like this, so let me know if I'm being retarded, lol.

edit - I could do front squats instead of back squats pre deads. would that fatigue my quads too much to actually deadlift properly, though?

[phrali]

Doing 3x10 squats at 225 pre deadlifting on the heavy days. Do you think that's reasonable? I really dislike lunges and hack squats, but I could make leg press work. Maybe 6x8-12 (3 plate, up to 8 plate) right after heavy deads? This is my first time programming around something like this, so let me know if I'm being retarded, lol.

edit - I could do front squats instead of back squats pre deads. would that fatigue my quads too much to actually deadlift properly, though?

I dunno man you are going to have to figure out what works for you. I just think that a few sets of squats at 225 and some leg extensions is not going to be enough quad work. I would try adding some kind of heavy quad work after pulling.

If you can front squat comfortably, consider training the front squat as a primary movement instead of the back squats. I dont know anything about your medical condition but i know that fronts are going to be a lot easier on your hips than back squats.

There are a lot of strongman competitors that will tell you how important front squatting is and how well it carries over to deadlift and other strongman events with anterior loading.

Hell if you dont want to kill yourself trying to increase your back squat and you dont like bench pressing, maybe strongman would be right up your alley. Strongman guys tend to be pretty good deadlifters.

[notforeveryone]

gonna be honest. not squatting is going to slow your "goals" significantly.

we've all got some type of injuries, some worse than others.

[308smk]

Surovetsky is a bitch near the end, use a training max for it or ensure adequate supplementation. Good results from it however.

[Turtora]

Surovetsky is a bitch near the end, use a training max for it or ensure adequate supplementation. Good results from it however.

Supplementation as in "supplementation" or supplementation? What supplements would you recommend? All I take is fish oil, probiotics, d3, creatine, some mass gainer protein powder (serious mass), and eat lots of food.

gonna be honest. not squatting is going to slow your "goals" significantly.

we've all got some type of injuries, some worse than others.

Thanks. Seems like that's what most people are saying. I'll have to find a way to make it work, somehow, I guess.

I dunno man you are going to have to figure out what works for you. I just think that a few sets of squats at 225 and some leg extensions is not going to be enough quad work. I would try adding some kind of heavy quad work after pulling.

If you can front squat comfortably, consider training the front squat as a primary movement instead of the back squats. I dont know anything about your medical condition but i know that fronts are going to be a lot easier on your hips than back squats.

There are a lot of strongman competitors that will tell you how important front squatting is and how well it carries over to deadlift and other strongman events with anterior loading.

Hell if you dont want to kill yourself trying to increase your back squat and you dont like bench pressing, maybe strongman would be right up your alley. Strongman guys tend to be pretty good deadlifters.

Alright. Front squatting it is, haha. Would you advise it being high rep or high weight, pre or post, heavy or rep deadlift day?

Maybe put front squats after rep day on deads? Keeping leg press and extensions/curls after heavy day?

[tom11]

Trust me (from personal experience), if you neglect your quads, you will have a hard time eventually in the deadlift. At some point, you will definitely struggle to get the bar moving from the floor.

[HamburgerTrain]

Step 1: Make sure you are working with consistent form everytime you pull

Once that is dialed in, I would strongly suggest pulling more than once a week.

[Turtora]

Step 1: Make sure you are working with consistent form everytime you pull

Once that is dialed in, I would strongly suggest pulling more than once a week.

Would you mind giving me a form check? I posted a video to my bodyspace, as it wouldn't let me actually post a link (don't have 50 posts yet). So if you're willing to venture in there, it'd be greatly appreciated. I've never actually had anyone critique my from on my deadlift. I feel like it's okay, but there's definitely a lot I could be doing better. It's from yesterday. Two sets of 345 x 5 (about 70% 1RM), touch and go (1st time doing touch and go in a long time, but that's what the program called for). I'll try to get one of me pulling heavier weights, so I can see where form breaks down closer to 1RM. I'll be working up to 3 singles at 440 this Friday, so I'll be sure to get a video of that.

Cheers!

edit - Just watched Jay Nera's video that was posted. Holy poop am I hamstring/glute/back dominant rofl. I guess that's just more reason to hit my quads. Also I have a lot to work on in terms of form. Learned a lot from that video. If anybody else has any criticism, though, it's still greatly appreciated. I'm sure I've missed something.

[adpowah]

Here's your video. It seemed pretty light for you.

[Turtora]

Here's your video. It seemed pretty light for you.

Thank you!! And thank you, haha. It was pretty light. Hopefully my form at 440 on Friday sheds a bit more light on where I break down. I'm quite certain that I'm too impatient getting it off the floor, though.

[breathinglife]

If you have FAI, I'd also be thinking of out-of-the box ways to hit your quads. Maybe ridiculous amounts of leg extensions? I'd never recommend that exercise to anyone, but given your situation, I'd be doing them 2-3x a week if I couldn't hit squats @ 100%.


Dat height, tho.

[Turtora]

If you have FAI, I'd also be thinking of out-of-the box ways to hit your quads. Maybe ridiculous amounts of leg extensions? I'd never recommend that exercise to anyone, but given your situation, I'd be doing them 2-3x a week if I couldn't hit squats @ 100%.


Dat height, tho.

Yeahh. That's probably the best idea, to be honest. I'll try working in front squats to see if they provide less stress on my hips than the back squatting i've been doing, but if that proves too much I think I'll look into other areas. Would box jumps be good, or is that more just in the category of speed work?

I am a very large human being, yes, haha.

[Jmadden44]

Really? 105% for three doubles?

[Turtora]

Really? 105% for three doubles?

Yeah... I was worried about that. I'm also thinking I need to be on gear for this, lol. I could see it happening, honestly, though. I don't have the most experience under my belt, so I've still got a good bit of growth I can take advantage of. Would you worry about modifying the percentages if you were doing this, or just scrap it and pick a different program?

Edit: Actually, yeah, that seems pretty dumb. Idk. I might tone down the percentages to where I'm doing 100% for 3 doubles, depending how the weeks leading up to it go. After 8 weeks, I feel like that's reasonable, yeah?

[Jmadden44]

Yeah... I was worried about that. I'm also thinking I need to be on gear for this, lol. I could see it happening, honestly, though. I don't have the most experience under my belt, so I've still got a good bit of growth I can take advantage of. Would you worry about modifying the percentages if you were doing this, or just scrap it and pick a different program?

Edit: Actually, yeah, that seems pretty dumb. Idk. I might tone down the percentages to where I'm doing 100% for 3 doubles, depending how the weeks leading up to it go. After 8 weeks, I feel like that's reasonable, yeah?

I think the 105% would work in your case. For a seasoned deadlifer? No. From a 575 pull to a projected 620 in 8 weeks in my case, nah

[HamburgerTrain]

Here's your video. It seemed pretty light for you.

That's not too bad man. A couple issues I see though:

1. Way too light to really see where you break down
2. Almost zero leg drive. Even though your posture stays pretty solid, you are going from a decent set up directly into and almost straight leg position. Start thinking of the deadlift as a leg press and not a pull.
3. Because your are new (I assume) to deadlifting heavy, pause between reps. I don't think this is a variable that matters for experienced lifters but you need more practice setting up then pulling. Not just setting up and pulling 5 times. First reps are all that matter when working on technique.
4. You drop down to the bar from an already opened chain position (hips are not extended before you drop to the bar). This can make the lockout much harder. An easy fix is before you drop down to the bar, look at a focal point in front of you and slightly above your head and flex your ass to force your hips into terminal extension.

Just a couple little things. Overall, not a bad pull, man.

[Turtora]

That's not too bad man. A couple issues I see though:

1. Way too light to really see where you break down
2. Almost zero leg drive. Even though your posture stays pretty solid, you are going from a decent set up directly into and almost straight leg position. Start thinking of the deadlift as a leg press and not a pull.
3. Because your are new (I assume) to deadlifting heavy, pause between reps. I don't think this is a variable that matters for experienced lifters but you need more practice setting up then pulling. Not just setting up and pulling 5 times. First reps are all that matter when working on technique.
4. You drop down to the bar from an already opened chain position (hips are not extended before you drop to the bar). This can make the lockout much harder. An easy fix is before you drop down to the bar, look at a focal point in front of you and slightly above your head and flex your ass to force your hips into terminal extension.

Just a couple little things. Overall, not a bad pull, man.

Here's your video.

Hopefully this works. Tried quoting adpowah again, modifying the embedded youtube link quote to reflect the new stuff. Here's today's work:

400x3
420x2
440x1
440x1
440x1

I focused on "pushing" instead of "pulling". Really tried my best to keep the hips down on these and keep my quads engaged. The reps felt brutally, agonizingly slow. I'm definitely weak off the floor. This was pretty frustrating, tho. I think my problem is that I'm definitely impatient when it comes to my deadlift. I think that's why my hips want to rise faster than my quads are able to activate. Out of curiosity, is it possible that (genetically) I have more fast twitch fibers in my posterior chain when compared to my anterior chain? Which is why I try to deadlift more from the back/hamstrings/glutes?

On the plus side, my lower back feels great. Sometimes there'll be a bit of soreness after squats and deads, so this is good.

[Jmadden44]

Good lord fill your frame and you'll be a monster

[Turtora]

Good lord fill your frame and you'll be a monster

Thanks, haha. That's the goal. My body just doesn't seem to want to sit anywhere above 10% bodyfat, even at 7000 calories/day. Do you have any advice for gaining weight? I've actually come quite a long way, and I'm really proud of all the progress I've made. I used to weigh 185 at this height, believe it or not lol. It's a really long, strange, boring story about me living alone off of leftover pizza, bread and water in a cottage on the beach for two years. Good times.

[adpowah]

Smart move on editing a quote to get around the 50 post limitation.

Your 400+ lifts looked great but a small suggestion is that if you want to make your lockout be a little more solid drive your hips into the bar once the bar comes over your knees. This will allow the hips to be under the shoulders at the top of the lift. Right now your lock out appears a little soft because your hips are slightly behind your shoulders. Anyways great lifts.

Also on the gaining weight thing, if you're making good strength gains then there isn't really a need to gain weight(imo) but for hard gainers it will just come down to eating more calorically dense foods. Now a lot of people will read calorically dense as "junk food" which is fairly true but there are plenty of healthy alternatives that are calorically dense, a quick google search will reveal a lot of options that will fit your needs. Unless you have a tape worm or digestive issue anyone can gain weight with the right foods/macros.

[WorldDomnit]

OP you're a freak. Are you fuc*ing using double overhand? and get a belt, it'll add some stability to your core and you should be able to lift a bit more

[Turtora]

Smart move on editing a quote to get around the 50 post limitation.

Your 400+ lifts looked great but a small suggestion is that if you want to make your lockout be a little more solid drive your hips into the bar once the bar comes over your knees. This will allow the hips to be under the shoulders at the top of the lift. Right now your lock out appears a little soft because your hips are slightly behind your shoulders. Anyways great lifts.

Also on the gaining weight thing, if you're making good strength gains then there isn't really a need to gain weight(imo) but for hard gainers it will just come down to eating more calorically dense foods. Now a lot of people will read calorically dense as "junk food" which is fairly true but there are plenty of healthy alternatives that are calorically dense, a quick google search will reveal a lot of options that will fit your needs. Unless you have a tape worm or digestive issue anyone can gain weight with the right foods/macros.

My ass is just fat. In all seriousness, yeah, I think I was focusing more on just pushing through the quads on Friday. Kind of forgot the basics of pushing through with the glutes and driving the hips after the knees. Thanks for the reminder, though. I do appreciate it.

OP you're a freak. Are you fuc*ing using double overhand? and get a belt, it'll add some stability to your core and you should be able to lift a bit more

Thanks. I wish! I'll use double overhand up to 315 and then swap over, though. And the belt's a good idea. Something I've been meaning to do for a while.