phosphatidic acid

[kissdadookie]

I have absolutely no doubt this is a great product, I will try it in the futur, but this quote is too funny, you're not gonna sell products with this wack marketing

Actually, people with money, time is extremely valuable to them. I have a side gig doing in home tech support, I literally get paid really good money to (at times) go over there to swap out the ink cartridge in a printer and once I went over there basically to put more paper in the paper tray of the printer because they thought the printer was broken but it just didn't have enough paper in the tray for the rollers to pick the sheets up to feed into the printer.

[Marshall28]

Can't believe this thread is still going. Have a harder time believing that reps are still in here trying to convince people to use their PA containing products instead of SL.

With PhosphaMuscle you know you are getting a quality product dosed at the proper amount. No guessing at all. Plus the ease of pills vs a powder.

[MrMakAttack]

With PhosphaMuscle you know you are getting a quality product dosed at the proper amount. No guessing at all. Plus the ease of pills vs a powder.

Wasn't necessarily talking just about MT.

My only gripe with SL is the taste and the amount of granules you have to eat. Price is pretty hard to beat though...and you can see what you are eating as opposed to a capsule where you really don't know what is inside.

[VicMackey92]

just deleted my message, not gonna waste time arguing with kdd

for someone " with money, time is extremely valuable to them." he spend a lot of time arguing

[bsl_nc]

I hope someone on here can answer this because I can't find a straight answer anywhere. Is cutler KING a natural supp? Also it would not require any type of pct? Only wonder about the pct because they recommend you cycle off after 8 weeks. Any help would be great thanks.

[Ninjathoskinny]

Actually, people with money, time is extremely valuable to them. I have a side gig doing in home tech support, I literally get paid really good money to (at times) go over there to swap out the ink cartridge in a printer and once I went over there basically to put more paper in the paper tray of the printer because they thought the printer was broken but it just didn't have enough paper in the tray for the rollers to pick the sheets up to feed into the printer.

I speak for everyone across exercise, health, and longevity forums on the Internet when I say you are in the wrong profession, KDD, and should look into a career as an opening speaker at very very very special events.

Your indefatigable monologue will be idolized at feminazi rallies, and you could make three times that delivering eulogies with a straight face at drug-baron funerals.

Imagine a career where no one skips your input, and where you never have the term "TL;DR" haunt you.

*group hug*

[llahhsoj]

I hope someone on here can answer this because I can't find a straight answer anywhere. Is cutler KING a natural supp? Also it would not require any type of pct? Only wonder about the pct because they recommend you cycle off after 8 weeks. Any help would be great thanks.

It is considered natural. No PCT is needed.

[janson_kaniaz]

Is fearn SL the cheapest option? How many scoops do you guys take per day since a scoop contains 1.2g PA.

[kissdadookie]

I speak for everyone across exercise, health, and longevity forums on the Internet when I say you are in the wrong profession, KDD, and should look into a career as an opening speaker at very very very special events.

Your indefatigable monologue will be idolized at feminazi rallies, and you could make three times that delivering eulogies with a straight face at drug-baron funerals.

Imagine a career where no one skips your input, and where you never have the term "TL;DR" haunt you.

*group hug*

I don't have the data available to let me know how many people read my posts and how many don't. I get enough PM inquiries and replies to my posts to suggest that a good number of them do. So, going by that, I like my odds here

[cumminslifter]

Is fearn SL the cheapest option? How many scoops do you guys take per day since a scoop contains 1.2g PA.

this hasnt been answered a dozen times...
just in the last 2 pages

[Marshall28]

I hope someone on here can answer this because I can't find a straight answer anywhere. Is cutler KING a natural supp? Also it would not require any type of pct? Only wonder about the pct because they recommend you cycle off after 8 weeks. Any help would be great thanks.

I can't speak for King but PA is a "natural" ingredient and there would be no need for a PCT or anything like that.

[kissdadookie]

I can't speak for King but PA is a "natural" ingredient and there would be no need for a PCT or anything like that.

Why do people think everything may need a PCT? It's perplexing. Inb4 "Bro, does this whey protein need PCT?"

[Marshall28]

Why do people think everything may need a PCT? It's perplexing. Inb4 "Bro, does this whey protein need PCT?"

I assume since it's labeled a Muscle building supplement people get worried.

[MuscleUpCrohns]

I assume since it's labeled a Muscle building supplement people get worried.

That, and the use of the word "anabolic" on King's label which really seems to throw off and/or confuse a lot of people.

[Younglifter16]

my only question (which Im sure has been answered), is there any benefit to a "free form" PA product (i.e. muscletechs), verses just ingesting SL and having it break down first to supply the component PA. Although this analogy is like apple to oranges, there's clearly benefits from free form leucine vs taking whey isolate and waiting for it to break down to supply the leucine.

[MuscleUpCrohns]

my only question (which Im sure has been answered), is there any benefit to a "free form" PA product (i.e. muscletechs), verses just ingesting SL and having it break down first to supply the component PA. Although this analogy is like apple to oranges, there's clearly benefits from free form leucine vs taking whey isolate and waiting for it to break down to supply the leucine.

Well, even Mediator (what's in MT PhosphaMuscle and the old King), ins't "free form" or "pure" PA. It's soy lecithin standardized to 50% PA, where typical soy lecithin granules/powder are about 7% PA (although the range is basically 5-9%).

[Younglifter16]

Well, even Mediator (what's in MT PhosphaMuscle and the old King), ins't "free form" or "pure" PA. It's soy lecithin standardized to 50% PA, where typical soy lecithin granules/powder are about 7% PA (although the range is basically 5-9%).

gotcha, so being free form doesn't seem to matter.

[kissdadookie]

gotcha, so being free form doesn't seem to matter.

There may be no difference, anecdotally soy lecithin granules seems to be working going by people's posts. There's no research data comparing the two though, so, who really knows? Can only go by anecdotal reports at this point.

[MuscleUpCrohns]

gotcha, so being free form doesn't seem to matter.

Here's some more relevant info:

However, phase one of the current study demonstrates that not only is soy-derived PA sufficient, but soy-derived LPA and S-PS can also stimulate a robust increase in mTOR signaling. Moreover, these lipid species were directly compared to the effectiveness of E-PA, and the results demonstrated that, compared to egg-derived lipids, all of these soy-derived lipids were more potent agonists of mTOR signaling. This could be due to the composition of the PA molecule. For instance, Foster et al. have reported differing effects of PA based upon the structure of its fatty acid components; wherein, two saturated fatty acids promoted storage, yet one saturated and one unsaturated fatty acid promoted signaling [16]. Thus, the higher unsaturated fat content of soy may explain these observations. This suggests that soy derived PA, LPA, and PS are superior agonists of mTOR signaling, and therefore, they appear to be suitable candidates for augmenting the effects of RT on muscle mass.

Moreover, different sources of PA (soy, egg) can have varying degrees of unsaturated or saturated fatty acid chains and this can influence the behavior of PA. Specifically, it has been suggested that two saturated fatty acids will promote storage, but one saturated and one unsaturated fatty acid will promote signaling

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4066292/

Basically, getting your PA from soy should be your first, and most important, priority.

[janson_kaniaz]

Well, even Mediator (what's in MT PhosphaMuscle and the old King), ins't "free form" or "pure" PA. It's soy lecithin standardized to 50% PA, where typical soy lecithin granules/powder are about 7% PA (although the range is basically 5-9%).

I'm struggling to understand your earlier post. If fearn SL per serving gives 1.2g of PA what did you mean by 7%?

[MuscleUpCrohns]

I'm struggling to understand your earlier post. If fearn SL per serving gives 1.2g of PA what did you mean by 7%?

15g of Fearn lecithin granules provides 1.2g PA (or 8% PA) according to the label. However, that is an average (not standardized) amount in the lecithin granules, and research shows that the range is really anywhere from 5-9%, with 7% seeming to be the average. In other words, for every gram of lecithin granules you take, you're getting about 70mg (7%) PA.

[Danes]

my only question (which Im sure has been answered), is there any benefit to a "free form" PA product (i.e. muscletechs), verses just ingesting SL and having it break down first to supply the component PA. Although this analogy is like apple to oranges, there's clearly benefits from free form leucine vs taking whey isolate and waiting for it to break down to supply the leucine.

Free form?
No, it is not free form it is just Enriched.
MediaTOR (found in phospha muscle) is enriched Soy Lecithin where 50% of those phospholipids/volume is PA.
SL Is about 7% PA .

It is not % which is important but the amount of PA. ofcourse, higher % of PA means less pills but since PA has no absorption/bioavailability issues, lower % is no problem.
SL is tasting good, you are getting high dose PA easily but PA caps will allways have the good place in the supplement industry.
Some people are getting stomach issues taking granules, some find it easy to take pills than SL.

but if you are taking 3-4g PA, It would be pretty expencive buying PA caps. And more PA is actually more beneficial.
I can BET that almost all PA users found that above 750mg was better than "just" 750mg.

Personaly, i am combining PA Caps and SL and I love it (for higher PA doses)

[ShoooterMcGavin]

Did anyone experience a flare up or even any Bacne while taking SL?

[MuscleUpCrohns]

Did anyone experience a flare up or even any Bacne while taking SL?

I haven't, and I don't recall anyone mentioning this. Have you? I suppose it's possible if someone is allergic to soy.

[janson_kaniaz]

15g of Fearn lecithin granules provides 1.2g PA (or 8% PA) according to the label. However, that is an average (not standardized) amount in the lecithin granules, and research shows that the range is really anywhere from 5-9%, with 7% seeming to be the average. In other words, for every gram of lecithin granules you take, you're getting about 70mg (7%) PA.

OK thanks. I guess 2 tablespoon should still do the trick.

I have 2 bottles of King on the way. As many have pointed out, it's still unclear how much PA is exactly in new King so my plan is 2 caps of King and 1 tablespoon of SL a day. Hopefully, there is no such thing as too much PA.

[MuscleUpCrohns]

OK thanks. I guess 2 tablespoon should still do the trick.

I have 2 bottles of King on the way. As many have pointed out, it's still unclear how much PA is exactly in new King so my plan is 2 caps of King and 1 tablespoon of SL a day. Hopefully, there is no such thing as too much PA.

Within reason, more PA is better. Many people, (including Danes and NewAgeMayan) have ran up to at least 5 tbsp of the granules a day, which is roughly 3g PA.

[NewAgeMayan]

OK thanks. I guess 2 tablespoon should still do the trick.

I have 2 bottles of King on the way. As many have pointed out, it's still unclear how much PA is exactly in new King so my plan is 2 caps of King and 1 tablespoon of SL a day. Hopefully, there is no such thing as too much PA.

As MUC said, Ive run 5tbs soyl for an extended period. I had previously run 2, then 3, then 4 tablespoons per day ed. Fwiw I would always recommend new users to start 'conservatively' and increase over time depending on their experiences; but, Ive personally found that increasing doses lead to increasing benefits. My error in the past was trying an increased dose for only a couple of days expecting an immediately noticeable benefit (as I did when I double dosed og King), and, when not seeing any additional benefit, reverting back to the lower dose.

[hamdysayed]

Not acne or side effects and I went up to 4 tbs.
Only thing was slight bloating n I mean slight.

[alvin1]

OK thanks. I guess 2 tablespoon should still do the trick.

I have 2 bottles of King on the way. As many have pointed out, it's still unclear how much PA is exactly in new King so my plan is 2 caps of King and 1 tablespoon of SL a day. Hopefully, there is no such thing as too much PA.

To me it is clear King does not containt 750mg of PA, if it would they would , BPI, would have let us know like others compagny does, if you use the amount in the study you show it in your supplement panel!

[ShoooterMcGavin]

LOL someone repped me telling me to stop posting... so sad