phosphatidic acid

[NewAgeMayan]

Excellent point.

I think if I try this (soy lecithin) myself, Id run it solo for the first cycle, just to be sure of its efficacy. Unless there are favourable reports by others whom I trust.

[cumminslifter]

interesting,, now you got me looking at soy lecithin. How come the brand you suggested seems to be the only one that states the actual PA content?

[DGarcia519]

interesting,, now you got me looking at soy lecithin. How come the brand you suggested seems to be the only one that states the actual PA content?

I was thinking the same thing. If it has the same effects (or even similar/close) as dosing an equal amount of PA from a supplement, it would be well worth it (since I may not be able to budget for a PA supplement right now).

[KillerB84]

interesting,, now you got me looking at soy lecithin. How come the brand you suggested seems to be the only one that states the actual PA content?

Because I think most people who supplement with Soy Lecithin are not doing so because of the PA content. But with the popularity of PA increasing, I wouldn't doubt more Soy Lecithin products displaying the PA content.

[NewAgeMayan]

interesting,, now you got me looking at soy lecithin. How come the brand you suggested seems to be the only one that states the actual PA content?

Ya, not even the NOW product specifies pa content. I think this stuff gets touted mainly for its choline and other non-pa content.

Ive read some stuff on how it works with fatty acids, aids their behaviour? If I understood more about biochem I could determine if this soy lecithin would be synergistic with (or detrimental to) ArA supplementation.

[eatyourspinach]

Ya, not even the NOW product specifies pa content. I think this stuff gets touted mainly for its choline and other non-pa content.

Ive read some stuff on how it works with fatty acids, aids their behaviour? If I understood more about biochem I could determine if this soy lecithin would be synergistic with (or detrimental to) ArA supplementation.

That might be just to be used in place of GMS.

[NewAgeMayan]

That might be just to be used in place of GMS.

Is that a guess or have you been doing some reading?

[KillerB84]

That might be just to be used in place of GMS.

Correct. Soy Lecithin has emulsifying effects. As a matter of fact, look at pretty much any protein powder ingredients and I bet you see Soy Lecithin towards the bottom of the ingredient list.

[cumminslifter]

Because I think most people who supplement with Soy Lecithin are not doing so because of the PA content. But with the popularity of PA increasing, I wouldn't doubt more Soy Lecithin products displaying the PA content.

How long have you been using it? thinking about picking me up a tub. any other negatives besides possible GI discomfort? With the brand you posted it is 1200mg for 15g of it, which is the recommended dosage, so i dont see how any problems could occur

Ya, not even the NOW product specifies pa content. I think this stuff gets touted mainly for its choline and other non-pa content.

Ive read some stuff on how it works with fatty acids, aids their behaviour? If I understood more about biochem I could determine if this soy lecithin would be synergistic with (or detrimental to) ArA supplementation.

good question

[allanhouston90]

In for more info. Interesting stuff. Soy Lecithin has been increasing in popularity lately, it seems.

[cumminslifter]

Correct. Soy Lecithin has emulsifying effects. As a matter of fact, look at pretty much any protein powder ingredients and I bet you see Soy Lecithin towards the bottom of the ingredient list.

Lecithins help make chocolate
smooth and powdered baby formula dissolve easily in water. They help ink flow from ball-point pens, spray paints provide even coatings and cooking sprays keep food from sticking to hot surfaces.

i would have to agree.

[NewAgeMayan]

Ahh true, killer, forgot about the emulsification factor

[KillerB84]

How long have you been using it? thinking about picking me up a tub. any other negatives besides possible GI discomfort? With the brand you posted it is 1200mg for 15g of it, which is the recommended dosage, so i dont see how any problems could occur

I have not used it yet. I'm currently in the middle of an ArA run and I would want to run it solo to make sure the effects can be attributed to the PA and not the ArA.

If you pull the trigger, you can be the guinea pig for everyone.

[cumminslifter]

I have not used it yet. I'm currently in the middle of an ArA run and I would want to run it solo to make sure the effects can be attributed to the PA and not the ArA.

If you pull the trigger, you can be the guinea pig for everyone.

I am about a week into my king run. Now that i look around more there are a few that post the PA content in the product. I just want to make sure there would be no side effects from it. I just skimmed through the last page quickly. Just got home from work.
and i saw you guys debating over some sides?

[NewAgeMayan]

Im expecting MrC to come in any minute now loling at our layman antics and bursting the bubble

[KillerB84]

I am about a week into my king run. Now that i look around more there are a few that post the PA content in the product. I just want to make sure there would be no side effects from it. I just skimmed through the last page quickly. Just got home from work.
and i saw you guys debating over some sides?

Yeah, from my research looks like most common side would be GI issues (diarrhea). I would start with a half dose to assess tolerance. But apparently there are plenty of people who supplement with up to 20g per day for cognitive and nerve health with no issues. Also looks like it lowers cholesterol.

[cumminslifter]

Im expecting MrC to come in any minute now loling at our layman antics and bursting the bubble

lmao, he is probably just reading and laughing

Yeah, from my research looks like most common side would be GI issues (diarrhea). I would start with a half dose to assess tolerance. But apparently there are plenty of people who supplement with up to 20g per day for cognitive and nerve health with no issues. Also looks like it lowers cholesterol.

i have an iron GI track, so im not to worried about that

[ebunch12]

Im expecting MrC to come in any minute now loling at our layman antics and bursting the bubble

Would love to see a Coop appearance ITT, I'm curious about the sides as well

[cumminslifter]

got it in my cart. just looking for a little more input before getting it. 10 bucks including shipping for 1 pound is super cheap

[NewAgeMayan]

You guys have any thoughts on the choline content of the soy product KillerB has referred to (and Im guessing most other soy lecithin granules too)?

Cant remember where I read it now (wiki link?) but the daily intake upper limit figure was 4000mg. Soy lecithin has 450mg listed, so all good. However, there is also a 'phosphatidylcholine' listing of 3450mg; so would these two figures be additive? If they are, that, plus other dietary choline, would put most of us over that UL figure.

[KillerB84]

Would love to see a Coop appearance ITT, I'm curious about the sides as well

The study on mTOR concluded that Soy-PA was more effective than egg-PA. So the source seems to be fine. Not sure what other issues there could be other than the choline question.

http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/11/1/29

In phase one, soy-phosphatidylserine, soy-Lyso-PA, egg-PA, and soy-PA stimulated mTOR signaling, and the effects of soy-PA (+636%) were significantly greater than egg-PA (+221%). In phase two, PA significantly increased lean body mass (+2.4 kg), cross sectional area (+1.0 cm), and leg press strength (+51.9 kg) over placebo.

[cumminslifter]

You guys have any thoughts on the choline content of the soy product KillerB has referred to (and Im guessing most other soy lecithin granules too)?

Cant remember where I read it now (wiki link?) but the daily intake upper limit figure was 4000mg. Soy lecithin has 450mg listed, so all good. However, there is also a 'phosphatidylcholine' listing of 3450mg; so would these two figures be additive? If they are, that, plus other dietary choline, would put most of us over that UL figure.

i mean can you really get "too much" choline where it become ill to your health

[ebunch12]

The study on mTOR concluded that Soy-PA was more effective than egg-PA. So the source seems to be fine. Not sure what other issues there could be other than the choline question.

http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/11/1/29

In phase one, soy-phosphatidylserine, soy-Lyso-PA, egg-PA, and soy-PA stimulated mTOR signaling, and the effects of soy-PA (+636%) were significantly greater than egg-PA (+221%). In phase two, PA significantly increased lean body mass (+2.4 kg), cross sectional area (+1.0 cm), and leg press strength (+51.9 kg) over placebo.

I understand the soy PA over egg PA, the choline mentioned above is what I am referring to. If possible GI discomfort is the worst side, I think I would give it a shot

[KillerB84]

i mean can you really get "too much" choline where it become ill to your health

This is what I found on Choline overdose:

"Soon after surpassing the 3.5-gram mark you will notice a drop in your blood pressure. Getting to about 5 – 10 grams of choline/day you are still lowering your blood pressure and are subjecting yourself to a feeling of faintness or dizziness. Higher doses of Choline (10 – 15 grams) have been clinically linked in research to unusual body odor, increased salivations, sweating, and in some cases vomiting. - See more at: http://nootriment.com/choline-side-effects/#sthash.HesVfE1o.dpuf"

[NewAgeMayan]

i mean can you really get "too much" choline where it become ill to your health

Prolly not, just trying to be thorough/careful. I mean, not sure how it metabolizes, interracts at high doses, etc

Edit: hmmm

[cumminslifter]

This is what I found on Choline overdose:

"Soon after surpassing the 3.5-gram mark you will notice a drop in your blood pressure. Getting to about 5 – 10 grams of choline/day you are still lowering your blood pressure and are subjecting yourself to a feeling of faintness or dizziness. Higher doses of Choline (10 – 15 grams) have been clinically linked in research to unusual body odor, increased salivations, sweating, and in some cases vomiting. - See more at: http://nootriment.com/choline-side-effects/#sthash.HesVfE1o.dpuf"

well i supplement with 1-3g of choline daily anyway. so i would stop that while taking this. but you are not getting more than that with a dose of soy L

[DGarcia519]

As others have stated I would really like to see Coop chime in. While GI issues seem to be the only possible side-effect (that anyone has found so far), the real question is whether using pure Soy Lecithin as a source of PA will have the same effects as using it in a refined form (such as KING). I haven't been able to use King yet (was hoping to in a couple of months since V2 is supposed to be more affordable), but hopefully someone who has will try this and see how it compares to their run of King (or that other PA product ).

[eatyourspinach]

In regards to phosphatidylcholine metabolism this http://wurtmanlab.mit.edu/static/pdf/1020.pdf gives a pretty detailed description.

[NewAgeMayan]

Ok cool, now that we have an alternate source for pa sorted, I dont suppose anyone knows of a whole food source that has, say, approx 100mg of amentoflavone per serving?

[DGarcia519]

Ok cool, now that we have an alternate source for pa sorted, I dont suppose anyone knows of a whole food source that has, say, approx 100mg of amentoflavone per serving?

I knew this was coming; mostly because I had the same thought!