Bulking in keto: Opinions

[repower]

Has anyone, or anyone you know, try bulking with keto and got good results? (Good results = more lean mass, less or the same body fat) Thanks people!

[King_Canada]

Has anyone, or anyone you know, try bulking with keto and got good results? (Good results = more lean mass, less or the same body fat) Thanks people!

Would love to get feedback on this as well. I hate carbs, they don't mix well with my body. From what I understand, to get the best of both worlds while bulking, have carbs before and after your workouts. Other than that stick to proteins and fats. I know it's not keto, but it's low carb bulking that would work similarly.

[repower]

I'm the same situation, I was a big obese boy, and, and the same time, I'm not a carb lover. Just looking for people that got good results from bulking on keto.

[XinApoK]

I have found that I can control my weight very easily. If I want to get a few more pounds for a bit more power in my lifting, I add some more protein. If I feel like I am struggling in my conditioning, I cut out a few calories. My point is that bulking on keto is a very easy process. I have found that after I gain the weight I still look very good.

tldr - Keto bulking works well for me. I have found it is very easy to add calories


Check the keto logs for more ideas.

[CharonRower]

If you minimize the calories due to the lower TEF of fat and realize that dietary fat is more easily converted into adipose than carbs, then yes, why not. Id still say that even though you may not think so, theoretically, you should perform better on carbs.

[grndzro]

Bulking on Keto is all about energy managment.
Find your TDEE and cut it close.
Use Glutamine for workouts.
Eat as much Protein as you can and remain in Keto. This means cutting out as many carbs as possible.
Dont overwork. It's better to add in another workout day than to blow everything out.

[Looton]

Works for me. I eat 1g+ of protein per lb of BW. I usually eat 30g carbs to try to stay in ketosis. I feel I'm usually in ketosis, given symptoms - sometimes more, sometimes fewer ketones expelled.
I am currently eating 800-1,000 more calories than I used to before keto and am not gaining weight yet my pants fit looser and the mirror says I am gaining mass. I'm getting told I'm buff, where I used to get asked if I was working out.
Maybe it's water loss and I look a bit more cut. But I feel like I'm making good gains while my weight is the same or a bit less - while I eat 1,000 extra calories.
YMMV, this is my (anecdotal) experience.

NOTE: I am getting a LDL-P test because my lipid panel is all over the place. I get regular lipid panels and bloodwork. If it's bad I am going off. My blood sugar, a1c, is great now. My Dr almost had me on statins and insulin before keto.

[JWoodCF10]

I ended up only doing a short bulk 10 weeks on keto (injury called a halt to it), but my question is like yours and on here somewhere.

I got good gains of LBM, but due to the amount of fat I was carrying I never changed weight, but still lost fat. The photos are also on here if you want to see what I mean.

I was eating a good 300 - 500 calorie excess per day, based on what I calculated my TDEE to be. My carbs were lower than 30gm per day, and my protein was at least 1gm / lb of LBM calculated on my best estimate of BF.

It is dead easy on keto to get carried away with calories though, so be careful. for example, my coffee in the morning was nearly 450 calories, simply because I added HWC, the same was true of my protein shake 100 mL HWC with 200 mL water and 25 gm protein gave me 550 calorie drinks.

I have gone back to cutting now but my next bulk will be a proper length one in the new year.

[repower]

Works for me. I eat 1g+ of protein per lb of BW. I usually eat 30g carbs to try to stay in ketosis. I feel I'm usually in ketosis, given symptoms - sometimes more, sometimes fewer ketones expelled.
I am currently eating 800-1,000 more calories than I used to before keto and am not gaining weight yet my pants fit looser and the mirror says I am gaining mass. I'm getting told I'm buff, where I used to get asked if I was working out.
Maybe it's water loss and I look a bit more cut. But I feel like I'm making good gains while my weight is the same or a bit less - while I eat 1,000 extra calories.
YMMV, this is my (anecdotal) experience.

NOTE: I am getting a LDL-P test because my lipid panel is all over the place. I get regular lipid panels and bloodwork. If it's bad I am going off. My blood sugar, a1c, is great now. My Dr almost had me on statins and insulin before keto.

I also eat like 1000 calories or more than in a normal carb diet, and I still manage my weight, haha.

I have found that I can control my weight very easily. If I want to get a few more pounds for a bit more power in my lifting, I add some more protein. If I feel like I am struggling in my conditioning, I cut out a few calories. My point is that bulking on keto is a very easy process. I have found that after I gain the weight I still look very good.

tldr - Keto bulking works well for me. I have found it is very easy to add calories


Check the keto logs for more ideas.

I can easily control my weight with without even have any hunger. I love it


In a normal diet day, I was eating around 2500 calories or maybe more, but that is because I'm very active, I'm usually doing between 35-40 sets per mayor muscle group (always use superset and triset), and I ALWAYS try to being active almost all day in the week, taking advantage of every moment to give me a long walk, a bike ride, and seemed. Yesterday, it was a rest day, and I was eating out. I eat around 3000 calories and even lose around 1kg of weight. I only wish that I had known from the ketogenic diet when I was obese (125kg), it would have been another world to me...

Thanks to all people for the answers, this really encourages me to try the bulk with keto. Thanks to all!

[second2noneBrah]

Id add in carbs around workout times

[and1_balla52]

It can be done, it's just about energy balance as it's been said above. I will add that it seems that you will really need to manipulate you carbohydrates. It's harder to put on mass without what I like to call the "delivery man" and that's insulin. TKD or even a CKD, but you definitely have to have calorie balance in check!

[grndzro]

It can be done, it's just about energy balance as it's been said above. I will add that it seems that you will really need to manipulate you carbohydrates. It's harder to put on mass without what I like to call the "delivery man" and that's insulin. TKD or even a CKD, but you definitely have to have calorie balance in check!

Insulin's role in protein delivery has already been debunked. Initial uptake was greater but it fell off afterward to no carb levels.

[and1_balla52]

Insulin's role in protein delivery has already been debunked. Initial uptake was greater but it fell off afterward to no carb levels.

Try building some actual tissue on a no carb diet....can it be done...yeah..maybe..but it will be slower than frozen molasses.

[repower]

I respect and appreciate all the answers, but I always like to do the standard keto, without cycling carbs, or put some carbs around workouts. And, about the insulin's role in protein, is truth: when carbs go to low for a time, insulin fell off.

[grndzro]

Try building some actual tissue on a no carb diet....can it be done...yeah..maybe..but it will be slower than frozen molasses.

Let me try this again.....
Insulin's role in protein delivery has already been debunked. Initial uptake was greater but it fell off afterward to no carb levels.
http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/opti...ein-revisited/
Actually BCAA levels are better with Keto diets.

Building Muscle in Keto is all about preserving your Glutamine levels. In fact if you manage your diet properly it is every bit as good as carbs.
Excess muscle though needs supplimentation, Just like carb based diets.

[repower]

Let me try this again.....
Insulin's role in protein delivery has already been debunked. Initial uptake was greater but it fell off afterward to no carb levels.

Actually BCAA levels are better with Keto diets.

Building Muscle in Keto is all about preserving your Glutamine levels. In fact if you manage your diet properly it is every bit as good as carbs.
Excess muscle though needs supplimentation, Just like carb based diets.

Do you recommend to supplement with Glutamine while someone is in keto? Or only take the glutamine coming from food sources?

[and1_balla52]

Let me try this again.....
Insulin's role in protein delivery has already been debunked. Initial uptake was greater but it fell off afterward to no carb levels.
http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/opti...ein-revisited/
Actually BCAA levels are better with Keto diets.

Building Muscle in Keto is all about preserving your Glutamine levels. In fact if you manage your diet properly it is every bit as good as carbs.
Excess muscle though needs supplimentation, Just like carb based diets.

Okay.

[Mrpb]

Jacob Wilson's yet to be published keto study showed advanced athletes gained as much muscle on a ketogenic diet as on a high carb diet. This was on maintenance calories.

More info: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=164012951

I've never bulked on keto but I'm very interested to try.

[grndzro]

Do you recommend to supplement with Glutamine while someone is in keto? Or only take the glutamine coming from food sources?

If I were Bulking(which I'm not)
I would go with fats/light protein/20g(??? I have no idea how much) or so of carbs pre workout That way you fuel your workout and get some adaptation. You should still be in keto after your workout.

Post workout. Fats+protein shake+glutamine+lysine

Diet should have a large variety of low carb veggies with every meal. Just make a meat/veggie stew. The slow digesting complex carbs help preserve your glutamine levels.

Ricotta/chicken are excellent glutamine sources.
Take Fish oil
Add fat wherever you need it for your macros.

[acrobat2000]

In theory should work. Studies comparing excess protein compared to adequate protein don't really show much difference. However, universally inadequate percent of daily protein causes muscle loss.

With a keto diet you can run an overall caloric deficit yet still get well above daily protein requirements so should work well on paper.

[jrharvey5923]

Im a huge advocate of keto and I do truly believe you can bulk while following this diet because I have done it myself. I would not call it easy though. One thing that is tough is that I do lose a bit of explosive power when going strictly keto. So my lifting is not quite as intense but I don't think it really limits growth. I only say that because when I tried gaining muscle with a calorie surplus and still eating keto foods I made more gains than all the previous times I tried eating a standard carb diet. It could be related to the increase in hormones from the higher fat diet.

[repower]

Im a huge advocate of keto and I do truly believe you can bulk while following this diet because I have done it myself. I would not call it easy though. One thing that is tough is that I do lose a bit of explosive power when going strictly keto. So my lifting is not quite as intense but I don't think it really limits growth. I only say that because when I tried gaining muscle with a calorie surplus and still eating keto foods I made more gains than all the previous times I tried eating a standard carb diet. It could be related to the increase in hormones from the higher fat diet.

Thanks for share your experience, truly helps.

[raskolAU]

JWood
Grndzro

I've repped you guys so much I can't anymore lol

Mrfp
I've only repped you once on another thread and can't now either lol, can't wait to read the study you posted.

Volek et al study on a keto diet (on deficit afaik) had overweight guys losing 8 kg of fat and building 1 kg of muscle with 12 weeks of resistance training so hell yes you can make GAINZ on keto. Subjects would have 20g whey pre and post workout otherwise it was standard keto. The report is called "low carb diets promote a more favorable body composition than low fat diets".

[BroWhoLifts150]

Where your calories come from doesn't matter one bit. High carb or low carb, the only thing that will effect how much fat you gain is how big your surplus is.

[Ransom17]

I don't know if it's a good idea. In my opinion and from everything I've learned it is just so much better when you get leaner to eat some level of carbs. If you are smart it's so much more advantageous from a hormonal perspective to bulk when you are lean as well: your excess calories just tend to go towards muscle growth whereas someone who is chubby will have poor insulin sensitivity and would be hard pressed to not gain little bits of fat with their muscle.

No one under 12% should be doing a ketogenic diet unless they are doing it because of preferences outside of "optimization" (in other words they just prefer the keto diets in spite of what might work better which is absolutely fine... Just call it what it is)

My opinion this is

[Mrpb]

Just found out that the Jacob Wilson study about keto was actually about bulking. They gained 4 pounds in 10 weeks, gained muscle lost fat.

More details; http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=164012951

[repower]

Just found out that the Jacob Wilson study about keto was actually about bulking. They gained 4 pounds in 10 weeks, gained muscle lost fat.

More details; http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=164012951

Really helpfully, thanks man! (PD: Watch out the carbs haha)

[jimir2]

I know that the math adds up that your surplus will determine your fat and muscle gain, but I've always put on roughly the same amount of muscle with and without carbs when bulking, but put on a lot more fat when doing it with carbs.

I first tried keto because I knew I had a blood sugar issue and was becoming insulin resistant. It was difficult at first and I would NOT recommend bulking on keto for someone who hasn't done keto before. Your appetite decreases and it can be hard to eat enough calories. Your strength will be affected a little bit but this effect decreases once you've done keto a few times and really acclimated. And getting acclimated for the first time is HARD. My one rep max from one week eating carbs to the next on keto went down by less than 5% and strength gains aren't hard. I don't know about the anabolic properties of ketosis, but I know it does have anti-catabolic effects according to some studies.

The bottom line is that I think it's highly personal. If you can eat 700g of carbs and not become Santa Claus then by all means do it because it tastes good! But I can't and I handle keto well.

[AustinWilson84]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNFggYwVR2U

/r/ketogains

[Mrpb]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNFggYwVR2U

/r/ketogains

Nice video. He actually uses an TKD approach, iirc he ingests 50 gram carbs before his workouts.