Frustrated...

[cgibsong002]

Well, I've been thinking I might be able to get some type of advice on here. I'm beginning to get very frustrated (for some time now) that I just am not seeing the results I wish I was.

Background info.. bout 1.5 years ago I spent about a month in the hospital and dropped to 125 lbs (I'm 5'11''). Obviously I lost just about any muscle I had. Prior to that my typical weight was between 145-155. After hitting 125, once I was cleared to exercise again, I was so motivated to bulk and to get back and stronger than ever. Over about a year I bulked about 45 lbs up to 170 and at this point I was VERY happy where I was. Obviously I put on fat but compared to 125.. you know. And surprisingly I felt I put on predominantly lean muscle especially considering how fast I bulked.

Anyway eventually got up to 180 then about 2 months ago I was just not happy anymore with the extra weight and was hoping I had enough lean mass to cut down and look good. I've dropped down about 10 lbs to just under 170, and I think I look just plain skinnier.

And this is where my issue is. I feel like no matter weight I'm at I'm just bigger or smaller but not doing much to gain any real muscle or make any real progress towards low bf% on the cuts. Looking back at 180 I don't feel I looked like I had much muscle. Now at 170, I feel I'm already too small to look good once I get my abs in.

So yeah.. looking for advice. I'll post some pics of before/after my recent cut. Any ideas? Motivation?

[phoenixr2]

Been there and done that. First cut I got down and said F me this is just as bad as being fat. Sure I didnt have a gut, but now I was scrawny and weak. gained almost all of the weight back. And did the whole cut/bulk cycles often always thinking I had enough LBM to look good on cut. Finally decided I wouldnt be happy without putting on serious LBM. Spent a good 2 years working on size and not stressing a few extra lbs. I am not as lean as I used to be but I love having size. I actually look like I lift now.

Think of what you want long term and focus on that. Sounds like you need to spend some time building LBM. Get a good program, get your diet in check, and put in work.

[cgibsong002]

180:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/...psjrppg7ht.jpg
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/...psmguspynj.jpg

Current, 170:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/...psy6blpenw.jpg
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/...psaaylolhe.jpg
flexed:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/...psqpzhtiub.jpg

What BF am I at now? My guess is 14-17%. I don't think I look bad now.. still skinny but it is what it is. I'm just worried I still need to cut too many pounds and will get too small by the time I get where I want.

As far as goals.. yeah I understand. Honestly I want a 6 pack. And get rid of this damn chest. It's been a goal for years now and I've never done it, and I feel I'm making good progress there. From that point I want to slowly bulk up indefinitely basically.

As far as diet, training, etc I got it all in check. I've got a great diet, very clean. I've been pacing both my bulks and cuts very smoothly.

[phoenixr2]

very frustrated (for some time now) that I just am not seeing the results I wish I was.

As far as diet, training, etc I got it all in check. I've got a great diet, very clean.

Either your expectations for changes are unrealistic, or no, your diet and training are not in check.

[OzChops]

I'm in a similar boat.
I need significantly more mass IMO to look good lean, but I've decided that in order to be able to add mass for long enough to do any real growing, I need to drop my BF as low as I can first.
Otherwise I'll just end up fat again, even if I'm a bit bigger, but I won't be happy.

It's not a short process, but the one thing I've seen from being here a while is that sticking to one goal (adding mass or losing fat) for a longer period tends to lead to better results overall.

[phoenixr2]

I'm in a similar boat.
I need significantly more mass IMO to look good lean, but I've decided that in order to be able to add mass for long enough to do any real growing, I need to drop my BF as low as I can first.
Otherwise I'll just end up fat again, even if I'm a bit bigger, but I won't be happy.

It's not a short process, but the one thing I've seen from being here a while is that sticking to one goal (adding mass or losing fat) for a longer period tends to lead to better results overall.

Is your avi current with stats? Any other pics?

Everyone always overestimates their LBM and most people are usually quite surprised at how they look/feel after a cut. Taking proper time and building up a solid foundation of LBM is the best thing you could do long term. You will be much happier

[cgibsong002]

Either your expectations for changes are unrealistic, or no, your diet and training are not in check.

It's more that what I picture in my head is unrealistic. Like I said coming up from 0 muscle at 125 to 180 I was really happy with how strong I got, but realistically I still didn't have all that much lean mass. And then I went through a period of some on and off lifting with moving and starting a new job before this cut, so I just plain was in a bad place where I had too much fat and not enough muscle. I mean on one hand I do feel really good so far during this cut.. I'm not all that happy with how skinny I look, but at the same time I am happy I've actually been getting stronger during it as I've been training harder than ever.

Can anyone check the pics and give me an idea of where I was and where I am now? I'm wondering how many pounds I still need to go to get to 10-12%

[cgibsong002]

I'm in a similar boat.
I need significantly more mass IMO to look good lean, but I've decided that in order to be able to add mass for long enough to do any real growing, I need to drop my BF as low as I can first.
Otherwise I'll just end up fat again, even if I'm a bit bigger, but I won't be happy.

It's not a short process, but the one thing I've seen from being here a while is that sticking to one goal (adding mass or losing fat) for a longer period tends to lead to better results overall.

I agree.. that's what I struggled with. I was doing good bulking but I just had too much fat on me, that even if I was getting stronger I just wasn't happy with it. I feel if I can cut to the point I want, then I'll be much happier bulking and will also have more motivation to do it right so I can keep the BF% down.

[OzChops]

Is your avi current with stats? Any other pics?

Everyone always overestimates their LBM and most people are usually quite surprised at how they look/feel after a cut. Taking proper time and building up a solid foundation of LBM is the best thing you could do long term. You will be much happier

My avi is smoke and mirrors - more pics in my profile, including one taken minutes before the avi that is a much more accurate representation of my state at the time.
MUCH fatter than I look in that pic, though that's 5 months ago I'm 15 lbs lighter now (low 190s vs 175 now, shooting for 160).

My LBM is at most in the low 140s, I've always been pretty honest with my self assessments.

I shall indeed be taking the time to build a solid foundation of LBM, but there's simply no way I am ever going back to being fat. If I stop dropping fat now even, I'll be very unhappy in only a few short months of calorie surplus.

I'm certainly interested in anything you have to say however, whether it is in line with or contrary to my current plan.

[cgibsong002]

So..Anyone have an opinion on my current bf %? Suggestions?

[gainleanmuscle]

I'm in a similar boat.
I need significantly more mass IMO to look good lean, but I've decided that in order to be able to add mass for long enough to do any real growing, I need to drop my BF as low as I can first.
Otherwise I'll just end up fat again, even if I'm a bit bigger, but I won't be happy.

It's not a short process, but the one thing I've seen from being here a while is that sticking to one goal (adding mass or losing fat) for a longer period tends to lead to better results overall.

BINGO!!! can't remember where i heard it but i think it was arnold who said "in order to build first you must burn"!!! i want to get myself to as low a bodyfat as possible without going insane and then start my bulk, if not i will just look like i'm getting fatter. i guess it's all in how you want to look. if you don't mind looking big but like crap with your shirt off you could bulk from any starting point, but if you want to look good at the beach you gotta have a low body fat %.

[Luclin999]

So..Anyone have an opinion on my current bf %? Suggestions?

16-17% 140# lean mass.

10% at 156#

[cgibsong002]

16-17% 140# lean mass.

10% at 156#

Really, that far away still... What do you think I was in the 'before' shots? Just over 20%?

[Luclin999]

Really, that far away still... What do you think I was in the 'before' shots? Just over 20%?

Yep, 20-21%

[cgibsong002]

Certainly discouraging but nothing I didn't really expect already I guess. Sorry I'm unsure how the calculations work but where can I expect 12-13%? A bit over 160?

Really don't know what to do now. Can't stop cutting as I'll feel like I'm giving up and won't be happy bulking.. but do not want to get too small. Definitely not going to 10% but maybe cut down to 13 or so if it's not too much further

[Luclin999]

Certainly discouraging but nothing I didn't really expect already I guess. Sorry I'm unsure how the calculations work but where can I expect 12-13%? A bit over 160?

Really don't know what to do now. Can't stop cutting as I'll feel like I'm giving up and won't be happy bulking.. but do not want to get too small. Definitely not going to 10% but maybe cut down to 13 or so if it's not too much further

12.5% right about 160#

[cgibsong002]

What's your honest opinion about what would be best in my situation? I mean I know that I guess the best thing for me to do would be to just cut my losses and start bulking. I don't have enough LBM. Dropping down to 156 for someone my height is just way too small. Even just to get to 12.5% at 160? ****.

I really refuse to just start bulking right now after trying so hard and being really determined to get that 6 pack. But it also sounds like dropping to 160 or below is just getting myself way too skinny. But.. I do think I'd be happier with my body if I could finally get rid of these giant pecs. Kind of torn. Advice? Any benefit to maybe trying a fat burner to accelerate the process down to under 13% so I can just get there and start my bulk sooner?

[tara19]

It's your body mate.
Fat burners don't accelerate the process unfortunately. Some do however aid in hunger reduction.

[cgibsong002]

It's your body mate.
Fat burners don't accelerate the process unfortunately. Some do however aid in hunger reduction.

Yeah, I'm just very frustrated I'm in a situation where I'll be disappointed either way. Ultimately I'll be less disappointed if I cut, because at least I feel I'll be accomplishing a goal of mine if I get to my desired bf. But since it's not exactly going to be that desirable of a result I'm thinking I just cut as fast as possible to get my bulk started. ****... Hard to get motivated in this situation.

[cgibsong002]

Wanted to post an update. Started cutting hard the 1st this month, and contrary to how I was feeling at initial post, I'm feeling incredibly motivated and good about myself. I'm now down to about 163ish (163-165 depending on fluctuations). So I'm only 3 lbs from my target of 12.5% at 160. However.. I don't feel like I'm anywhere near the 12% range. I feel like I'm still above 15%. I've been hitting the gym hard and can say for certain I've been maintaining my weights. Pullups I've significantly increased (obviously I'm lighter). But yeah. Does it look like I've lost muscle? Was my initial BF estimations off? Or am I closer than I think? I can see a big change in my waist and chest, but I just don't see ab definition that I'd expect at this point.

EDIT: BF% update?

[AAOBob]

I think a LOT of us are like this, I know I am. I don't want to get fat again, because I hated being fat, but I want to build bulk as I'm not nearly as big and strong as I think I should be. Sooner or later you have to accept a little of one or a little of the other. Quotes from Arnold are great and all but he is also the guy who said "Unmentionable cell tech, breakfast of champions.".

For me, not being fat is winning, but that means building is going to suffer.

[cgibsong002]

Bump. Bob, my feelings actually did take a 180* turn once I started this cut. I though I'd get down to 160 and just look horrible. But quite the contrary, this is the best I've looked ever. But my concern now is what my BF is. I want to know if the initial estimates were off, or if somehow I've gotten off the path to ~12%. I'm very close to my goal weight, but the abs aren't there. Not sure if they're about to pop out with a couple more pounds or if I'm just off on estimates... :/

[Zevias]

Bump. Bob, my feelings actually did take a 180* turn once I started this cut. I though I'd get down to 160 and just look horrible. But quite the contrary, this is the best I've looked ever. But my concern now is what my BF is. I want to know if the initial estimates were off, or if somehow I've gotten off the path to ~12%. I'm very close to my goal weight, but the abs aren't there. Not sure if they're about to pop out with a couple more pounds or if I'm just off on estimates... :/

I am 5'10 and have a somewhat similar build to you and I am cutting down to 145 to get about 10% (that's my guess, I thought I would be golden at 170 but I am here now and still have weight to lose)
You probably underestimated how much bf you actually have

[cgibsong002]

sorry.. bump still for BF estimate and pounds needed to go still

[tara19]

I would say ~16%

[cgibsong002]

I would say ~16%

I was told I was about 16-17% when I started this about 8 pounds ago. Surely I couldn't have only dropped ~1% with 8 pounds. I feel like that puts me on pace for <150lbs for 10%. Not saying you're wrong, or the previous estimates were wrong.. but I'm trying to figure out if either
A. I was fatter than I thought to start
B. I'm losing too much muscle on this cut (doesn't seem like it) or
C. I am dropping but don't have the muscle underneath for good definition.

[cgibsong002]

shameless bump. Just really hoping to get these above questions answered.

[AAOBob]

I was told I was about 16-17% when I started this about 8 pounds ago. Surely I couldn't have only dropped ~1% with 8 pounds. I feel like that puts me on pace for <150lbs for 10%. Not saying you're wrong, or the previous estimates were wrong.. but I'm trying to figure out if either
A. I was fatter than I thought to start
B. I'm losing too much muscle on this cut (doesn't seem like it) or
C. I am dropping but don't have the muscle underneath for good definition.

Were about the same height, I'm 185 and you look a bit fatter than me. I estimate myself to be 14%, so I think 16% looks about right.

Don't forget these are eyeball estimates. Going to be a good deal of error in them.

[tara19]

I was told I was about 16-17% when I started this about 8 pounds ago. Surely I couldn't have only dropped ~1% with 8 pounds. I feel like that puts me on pace for <150lbs for 10%. Not saying you're wrong, or the previous estimates were wrong.. but I'm trying to figure out if either
A. I was fatter than I thought to start
B. I'm losing too much muscle on this cut (doesn't seem like it) or
C. I am dropping but don't have the muscle underneath for good definition.

I think that it's a combination of A/C.
You do lack the muscle.. and probably higher at the start.

Also, there was no legs or back pictured.
When you lose weight not 100% of those 8 lbs will come off the front of you..
Could be 4 off love handles, 8 off thighs.. kinda thing. Sorry to disappoint you.

[cgibsong002]

I think that it's a combination of A/C.
You do lack the muscle.. and probably higher at the start.

Also, there was no legs or back pictured.
When you lose weight not 100% of those 8 lbs will come off the front of you..
Could be 4 off love handles, 8 off thighs.. kinda thing. Sorry to disappoint you.

Thanks guys. and yeah.. I feel I've seen huge definition improvements everywhere but my abs. I know these are last to come, but I thought I'd be 13-14 by now and just do not see that. So yeah, I'm a bit disappointed, after I was feeling so good about my progress. But at the same time, this is still the best I've ever felt. I think I was a bit blinded thinking I wouldn't end up skinny, but I will. Regardless, gotta do it either way, so I'm gonna push on and get down there so that I can get bulking.