Pull-up progression

[JigMaker]

Looking for thoughts/experience with using straps for assisted pull-ups. I'm not strong enough (yet) to do more than 2-3 pull-ups and have been researching ways to progress. I'm tossed between simply attempting more, more often or adding assistance straps to my tool bag. I've never been around anyone who has used them, so I have zero experience with them. Are they worth the time to focus on form and muscle development or do they act as more of a hurdle for progress (having the muscles rely on the support vs. growing to the demand)?

[FltDoc06]

Pullups take quite a while to progress. When I started 4 years ago, I could only do assisted pullups (pushing with my foot on a chair to help). I can remember after about a year I was only able to do 2-3 unassisted, and I wondered if I'd ever do more. Little by little, however, the pullups improved. I did 20 this past week at full extension at the bottom (bodyweight).

I'd encourage you to be patient. Are you failing because you can't hold onto the bar (a failure of grip strength), or because you can't pull yourself up to the top (a failure of back/lat strength)? Your answer to that will determine what approach you should take.

If the issue is grip (hands slide off the bar before your lats give out), then try using the straps for a while. They will allow you to continue to develop your back/lats while you build more forearm strength. If the issue is that you run out of steam and can't pull yourself all the way up to the bar, then assist yourself more at that point. Do as many pullups as possible until you reach failure, then increase your assistance and do a few more. That will help build the back/lats.

[JigMaker]

My failure is halfway through the pull. I can get a complete ROM on a few, then lock up when my eyes get to wrist level. Slow negatives I can do for many more reps. Can't say I've noticed a difference between palm direction or grip width either. I end up hanging and doing leg raises, simply in frustration, after the pull-up failure. (Not a grip or forearm strength issue)

[JimmyJonny]

Try doing what you can, maybe even negatives. After that go straight to heavy lat pull-downs. Set the weight to where you finish your sets/reps.

Every week you should be able to do more pull-ups and or more weight on the lat pull-downs. End the end, you'll be doing nuthin but pull-ups and eventually adding weight to those.

It takes a lot of time, just do your best.

[JimmyJonny]

My failure is halfway through the pull. I can get a complete ROM on a few, then lock up when my eyes get to wrist level. Slow negatives I can do for many more reps. Can't say I've noticed a difference between palm direction or grip width either. I end up hanging and doing leg raises, simply in frustration, after the pull-up failure. (Not a grip or forearm strength issue)

Cin-ups are easier ( palms in ). I actually started with chin-ups then switched to pull-ups when I was strong enough. Even after that and even harder is pull-ups with a wider grip.

[Overload]

If you have access to an assisted pullup machine that would be ideal, but if not, some people have used cords to assist in pullups/chinups. Negatives are a good way to get stronger for them too.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=klYJz1zYK5A

www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFtE27GzTTk

[JigMaker]

Overload - that is where my original question comes from - Are the assistance bands worthwhile, or will they create a weakness? If I understand them correctly, they are available in different resistant amounts (?) So I could compare them to a progressive "de-load" with the amount of help the back muscles get? (Zero experience with them)

[Overload]

They work pretty good considering the benefit you would gain from it. As you progress, you would just use less assistance (i.e. bands with less resistance) until you can do several on your own. Then it's a matter of getting stronger as well through other back exercises, arm exercises and doing negatives on pullups/chinups as mentioned by others.

There are several levels of resistance for example: http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&key...l_5te8ls01aq_b


Before you know it you'll be doing weighted pullups.

[JimmyJonny]

No kipping vids ?

[JigMaker]

No kipping vids ?

Not from me.............not prone to seizures..............simply moving dead weight...............or at least trying.

[JimmyJonny]

Not from me.............not prone to seizures..............simply moving dead weight...............or at least trying.

Lol.

I'm sure your dieting too, that will help a lot. Slow & Steady man, keep at it.

[hmcl281]

kicking yourself up should help the same way as the elastic bands

[jasonjm2005]

Looking for thoughts/experience with using straps for assisted pull-ups. I'm not strong enough (yet) to do more than 2-3 pull-ups and have been researching ways to progress. I'm tossed between simply attempting more, more often or adding assistance straps to my tool bag. I've never been around anyone who has used them, so I have zero experience with them. Are they worth the time to focus on form and muscle development or do they act as more of a hurdle for progress (having the muscles rely on the support vs. growing to the demand)?

yeah those straps assist a lot. I once trained with someone who used them and it helps. It feels a lot like assisted pullup machine if you ever tried one, just use more bands for more assist.

I found pullups the easiest of my exercises to progress. Maybe try what I did?

Every 2nd day for 1 year I did 13 pullups, 4 wide grip and 4 narrow grip.

5 were warm up with body weight, I could do these when I started, but just barely, I had to wiggle and cheat a bit.

Then I did 4 and 4, with a weight belt (started off with just the belt which weighs about 3 lbs I think, thats all I could do).

Anyways, the most important thing I found was

1) to do a complete and total hang for at least 1 second between the pullups. otherwise you just cheating yourself. arms completely straight. else you doing a BS pullup
2) no to cheating by wiggling your legs and stuff, although if you are stuggling with no weights you may have to do this until you get a bit stronger
3) pullup 4 should always be a failure, if you can do it, you need to put more weight on belt next time so you fail at 4. You will become surprisingly good at guessing your fail weight at exactly rep 4.

Anyways, to cut a long story short, I weighted 180 lbs a year ago, now I weigh 214 so 34 lbs heavier.

Can now do 3 clean pullups from full hang, no wiggling, chin above bar, 1 second pause between with 105 lbs of plates on belt. and I weigh 34 lbs more.

so that is 140 lbs more than I started with. obviously I trained hard with other exercises too, but that was the basis of my pullups.

also you are very heavy for pullups if you are 259lbs . if you cut weight you would EASILY be doing pullups and lots of them, 30lbs would make a massive difference - but ideally at 5ft9 there is noways you should weight more than 200 lbs max (and that isn't even at low BodyFat). Unless you are using steroids or some sort of genetic freak.

You may want to run one of those calculators which estimate your max muscle mass at a height, I bet you will be shocked what a 5ft9 person at 6% bodyfat with no steroids and stuff would weigh, its very low. I bet for someone at 5ft9 6% bf you looking at 180lbs or less.

[gibbermonkey]

Put a chair in front off your bar and rest a leg on it whilst you're doing pull ups, which will effectively reduce the weight you're lifting. The chair can be removed when you've developed more strength.

[angrypenguin54]

If you can already do at least 2 to 3 good pull ups, I would forgot all of the assisted ones and just do sets of 1 to 2 pulls ups at a time and build from there. Bands, assistance machines, chairs and a spotter helping are all great until you can get a couple solid pull ups, but once you can do that, nothing beats just doing pull ups.

Start with however many sets it takes to get 10 to 15, do it 2 to 3 times per week. Its best if you leave one in the tank on the first few sets. So if you can do 3 right now, it might be something like - 2,2,2,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1.

Work up until you can get 5 good ones and work 5 sets at a time until you can get up to 5x5. Once you get up to 5x5 add weight at least to one of the workouts per week and progress it like any 5x5 lift. The other workout you are doing pull ups you can keep at BW if you like to work on endurance.

[Rajon25]

We look to be about the same dimensions. I can do 9 dead hangs. How in the hell does a little shot fat guy do that?

1. In my experience. Using bands makes you better at doing banded pull ups. That is about it.
2. Start with ring rows and build your back.
3. If you can't pull all the way up do negatives. Get your chin over the bar anyway you can and hold it there for as long as you can.

I followed some progression I found on the internet. Basically three days a week I did a lot of ring rows and then negatives. I eventually worked up to a few pull ups. Once you start being able to do a real pull up gains come easier.

Good luck and I am happy to see you choosing to be proficient at such an amazing and useful exercise.

[keyboardworkout]

Middle Aged Pullup Syndrome (MAPS)

Let me warn you to be careful about MAPS. If your elbows or shoulders start to get sketchy, back off!

I have done high volume pullup routines (like Pavel's fighter pullup program) and just thought I could work through the pain. It didn't happen and my elbows hurt for months.

I now limit myself to no more than a 20 rep workout twice a week.

[Tmax55]

I've always thought you are either gifted to be decent at pullups or you have to work very hard at it.

For instance - I was a really skinny guy (6'1" 130lbs) who started lifting to add muscle - it was easy to do pullups all along because I didn't have to pull much when I started - as I added muscle I was always doing pullups so if anything it stayed the same or got a bit easier.

If you are larger and lift to lose weight pullups are going to be hard, but your big three should be easier than for the skinny person.

[JWoodCF10]

I started off chin ups and had to jump off the deck to pull up at all. I gradually managed one from a dead hang. Once I could do one however, I never used assistence again. I did them on multiple occasions.

I set up a chin-up bar in the house and every time I went passed I had to do one. That has built me up to being able to do 10 chin ups. At this point I went back to stage one with pull ups, and gradually I improved. I am now on hads wide apart doing pull ups, I am on 3 but in time I will get that up.

I have also lost weight, which made things loads easier, and last week I started doing weighted chins and pulls, only with 15lb DB but even that made them hard to complete a set of 3.

I do not like bands, as I think they do not teach the correct way to move. But this could be that with a band I could not move correctly for my body, either way I think as you can do 3 stick to doing them properly.

[JigMaker]

Appreciate all the feedback! In order of thoughts:
1) I am losing unwanted weight. Oct. 2013 I tipped the scales at 330lbs, and decided I wanted to be "the big guy" in a more positive light. It's a slow groove, but I'm in it.
2) Dealt with the same pathetic ability when I attempted sit-ups and push-ups. 1st attempt at both was a major reality check. Almost a year later, my sit-up routine consists of multiple angles and sets that total a little over 100reps - same for push-ups. When I felt I was ready for pull-ups, my approach was going to be the same: do it on a regular basis and push a little more each time (it will happen if you you try mentality). My problem is I don't have access to something to do pull-ups on a regular (when I want to) basis. Getting ready to add a half-rack to my garage gym, which will dissolve that excuse.
3) All I want to accomplish is settling my mind. I feel the weights I'm using for upper body work are to a point that I "should" be able to be more proficient with pull-ups. The fact that I can't do as many as I "should" be able to is what beats me down mentally.

Rajon25 - Your statement about "using bands, makes you better at using bands" was exactly what I questioned. From one fireplug to another, I appreciate the honesty! Don't take this the wrong way, as I mean it in all respect - if you can do that many dead hang pulls, then so can I.............then I'll work to better it (thanks for the unintended motivation)!

[DontMusclWantng]

Pullups take quite a while to progress. When I started 4 years ago, I could only do assisted pullups (pushing with my foot on a chair to help). I can remember after about a year I was only able to do 2-3 unassisted, and I wondered if I'd ever do more. Little by little, however, the pullups improved. I did 20 this past week at full extension at the bottom (bodyweight).

I'd encourage you to be patient. Are you failing because you can't hold onto the bar (a failure of grip strength), or because you can't pull yourself up to the top (a failure of back/lat strength)? Your answer to that will determine what approach you should take.

If the issue is grip (hands slide off the bar before your lats give out), then try using the straps for a while. They will allow you to continue to develop your back/lats while you build more forearm strength. If the issue is that you run out of steam and can't pull yourself all the way up to the bar, then assist yourself more at that point. Do as many pullups as possible until you reach failure, then increase your assistance and do a few more. That will help build the back/lats.

Glad to hear. I started pullups and palms-facing each otherups two years ago, only once did I jump forward from 2 to 4 in a set.

[angrypenguin54]

Bands give the most assistance at the bottom and less as you pull which is does not mimic the actual lift. You are better off having a partner spot you and give some assistance or put your foot on something and give yourself a bit of a cheat.

I really dont feel any of that is needed though once you can go a couple real ones on your own.

[Rajon25]

Rajon25 - Your statement about "using bands, makes you better at using bands" was exactly what I questioned. From one fireplug to another, I appreciate the honesty! Don't take this the wrong way, as I mean it in all respect - if you can do that many dead hang pulls, then so can I.............then I'll work to better it (thanks for the unintended motivation)!

I am proud to be a fireplug. Those tall skinny guys that can do a million pull ups will never dead lift as much as us. haha

[erdd]

Up until last year I have never been able to do pull ups terribly well. I could struggle through 6 or 7, but it just didn't seem to work for me. So one of my New Year's resolutions last January was to do 12 pull ups in a set within a year.

For the first four months of the year, I tried every crazy approach you could think of - assists (ie - bands), super-slow negatives, different grips, kipping, supersets with pull downs, etc. No real progress on my numbers.

But in May, I said screw it and just started focusing on doing as many perfect pull ups (no assistance or momentum whatsoever) as I could in 5 sets at the start of each biceps/back workout.

I'm now at 11 in my first set (my 5 sets - all to failure - are typically 11, 10, 9, 9, 9). I think I can get to 12 by year's end!

So my experience has been that the best way to train for more pull ups is just to do more pull ups.

[jba1]

Hello,

What worked for me....I will be 74 in November if that makes a difference
I started focusing on pull-ups about a year ago. I tried all the things mentioned here and made some very slow progress.
Big changes occurred when I focused on the core. Hanging ab straps with leg lifts worked all the muscles used for pull-ups. I also do senior version of "Dragon Flys" which also worked the same muscles.
I now do three sets of ten on my workout days without problems.
Mentally it feels so good to be able to do pull-ups again that I usually do daily (in my home gym)...ten in the morning before shower and 7 - 10 at night before bed.
What I am suggesting is...Working on your core......this will help you with pull-ups.
Do not ignore your core!!!
Hope this helps, JimB

[HoustonTXMuscle]

Just another septuagenarian re-enforcing what Jim (jba1) said above, especially in terms of working your core. What really helped me progress was initially concentrating on weighted rack pulls when running a PHAT program. I now make a point of including 3 to 5 sets of weighted neutral grip pull-ups, chin-ups or wide grip pull-ups daily at the end of my w/o's. For those that would argue that comments from an old guy are meaningless without a pic, here's a vid from yesterday's w/o (click on the pic to bring up the vid). This was my 5th set of 8 chins. Poor form on the first (kick-off) and the last two reps; otherwise, not too shabby for an old (74 1/2 year-old) gym nut.