[IN-DEPTH] Full Analysis of Kai and Phil - 2014 Mr.Olympia (Pre-Juding and Finals)

[RoroCwalker]

*Note: Please do not post until I am done with posting all the poses and the verdict.

Also, note that the analysis is not in the depth I ideally thought it would have been due to the fact that it's hard to article the imagery I have in my head, but I've given it a try, some things might seem unclear but it's better than the usual "3D pop full muszle bellies symmetry grainy slabs of thick muzels oldman skin hue hue" arguments.

Also, note that in the finals (maybe pre-judging too), Kai was behind Phil, thus making him appear than he is.


This is a full analysis of the top 2 physiques at the 2014 Mr.Olympia.

I will address each pose, by presenting the comparisons between the physiques, assessing each pose rightfully so, with a fair level of depth for each.

I will not assess their individual poses, since there is no point comparing them to their previous showings.

As Kai Greene would say; "The past is the past."

Now, let us begin with the first mandatory poses, found in the "Symmetry Round".


The Front Relaxed pose

Considering the fact that there were no occurrences where Phil and Kai hit it at the same time, at the 2014 Mr.O, I will use the 2013 Pre-judging version of that to provide explanation.



Now, what is being looked at? What is being considered? What are the key components to this pose?

Structure and proportions are the primary components here, both combined create shape, they create a geometrical silhouette, something that has been standardrized in the world of bodybuilding. The first you see when an athlete comes out, is shape, it's the contour of his physique.

Shadows are a prime example of that.



You directly notice the proportions and shape of the individual's physique.

In the past and in non-bodybuilding related standards, the proportions had less emphasis on the legs, but from the top, they still stand.






The shape being achieved is the "X" frame, or a straight hourglass (basically an "X" with the 2 extremeties closed.

Who is the closest to that ideal?



Of course, Kai Greene.

As you can see on the sketch above, the clavicles of Phil Heath do not align or connect in an outward fashion, to the lats. That breaks the "X" frame, it creates an extra derivative/segment/line to connect his clavicles to his lats. His quads are also not aligning, in fact, they are overpowering his frame, giving him a disadvantage in terms of structure, compared to Kai.

Where as, Kai has a close to ideal structure. As you can see in the sketch above, he represents an alignment of his clavicles, lats, waist, quads and calves.

Kai's wider frame allows him to be in a reasonable reach of that ideal.

Phil's narrower frame does not allow him to be in reasonable reach of that ideal, even if he tweaks his posing and retracts his lats, he will fix the alignment a bit, but he will be at an even bigger disadvantage in terms of size, compared to Kai.

That concludes the aspect of size, proportions and structure.

Kai Greene has a better shape than Phil Heath in the Front Relaxed.

Now,

I won't go into the advantages and disadvantages, because the picture I'm using is a 2013 one, and since 2014 did not deliver any Front Relaxed Pose, I will skip over that part.

Winner of the Front Relaxed Pose : Kai Greene

[RoroCwalker]

The second and third pose of the "Symmetry Round".

The Side Relaxed

This pose currently relies on "X" frame, where the individual must position himself in a way that'll accentuate a small waist and a flare to the quads/hamstrings/glutes and to the lats/obliques.

Back in the early era, the pose was displayed as such;




Displaying the thickness of the chest, the size of the arms, the size of the stomach (which wasn't an issue in that era, so it was to further enhance the protruding chest and emphasis on that aspect), the proportions of the legs, and the overall proportions between upper body and lower body. The "X" frame was not a concern.

Along the way, it gradually changed.



Of course, it's not the exact pose, but it's a hint of the idea.

Now, the pose was develop and better suits the physiques of today.
I suppose that today's arms/shoulders and stomach would overpower their chests, so it's best if they keep it the following way;



The idea behind the pose remains the same as the original one.

The stomach is the key component here, someone with a relatively weak upperbody has a better chance at pulling off the pose than someone with a good upperbody but a huge stomach.

The important feature is for the upper body + obliques/lats to flare, while the waist noticeably tapers towards the hips/pelvis/posing trunks, and the flares back out again with the glutes/quads/hamstrings.

The difference a distention can make in the side relaxed;






Now, assessing Kai and Phil;

1.Pre-judging



Phil's advantages over Kai

-Rounder, more protruding quadricep
-A thicker primary chest (primary chest = the one that is the closest to the judges.)
-Bigger traps
-Obliques are more defined
-More defined tricep

Kai's advantages over Phil

-Rounder and more protruding gluteus
-Rounder and more protruding hamstring (ridiculous)
-Kai's midsection is going inwards towards in his pelvis, giving him an advantage, as opposed to Phil's "relaxed protruding stomach"
-More apparent display of his lats
-Visible vascularity around the glutes area
-Secondary chest is mores triated

Both of their conditioning is up to par with eachother in that pose, Kai is bigger, although, that perspective may be played with and people might think that Phil is bigger because he's taller and has thicker chest/traps, although, if you were to look at Kai's legs and lats, you should be able to stabilize that perspective.

The reason that pose is a tough call is because of Phil's stomach and pelvis positioning, it protrudes in a way that it breaks that desired "X" frame, although, it is not as much of an issue as it was seen by Roelly.

The question is, considering the close call between the two physiques, on that pose, what will be the decisive point?

Would you rather have a better posture (better posing/better "X" frame) with bigger legs?

or

Would you rather have a thicker chest/traps area, with more definition to your obliques?

My verdict for the pre-judging side relaxed: Kai

What made me go for Kai?

The edging point was the flow from the waist to the lats;



Phil's midsection protrudes and blends in with his lats, giving him the allure of having a bigger waist, not only that, but his glutes and hamstrings lack the roundness and thickness Kai's have, thus, creating a inverted perspective of the ideal, in that area.

The part where it's supposed to taper, protudes. Mixed with the lack of protruding glutes/hamstrings, gives the opposite of the ideal.

Kai's midsection tapers inwards, the waist is separated from the lats, the glutes and hamstrings are protruding in a fashion that it enhances the ideal look of that pose.

2. Finals



The analysis remains the same.

My verdict for the finals side relaxed: Kai

[RoroCwalker]

The last pose of the "Symmetry Round".

The Rear Relaxed

Just like the Front Relaxed, this pose relies on the "X" frame, but it has a different composure, it's looked at differently than the Front Relaxed, due to the fact that the frontal torso is not shown, therefore, the main bodypart being assessed is the back, so the spread and shape of the lats are a priority here, not to mention glutes, hamstrings and calves development. There is also the secondary components such as the rear delts, triceps, forearms, quad flare(which arguably, given the circumstances of our era, could be considered as a priority.)

In early ages, the pose was essentially focused on width and thickness, you don't see them tensing to their fullest extent.



If that was translated to our current era, it would give something like this;



That, of course, wouldn't be optimal to fully, visually, exploit the individual's muscularity and separation/detail and conditioning.

It transitioned in something like the following;



Spreading the lats, flexing them, contracting your lower back (by pushing your stomach forwards), flexing your triceps, while flexing the glutes, hamstrings and calves, and giving a fair amount of display to the quads, which will accentuate the "X" frame.

Now, assessing Phil and Kai,

1.Pre-judging



Phil's advantages over Kai

-More defined and bigger traps
-Thicker lower back
-Calves

Kai's advantages over Phil

-Wider structure
-Thicker lats
-Bigger glutes
-Quad sweep
-Tricep striations
-Apparent vascularity around the quads/hamstrings area

Now, let's take a closer look.



You can clearly see the structural and size advantage that Kai displays on Phil.

He's more in reach of the ideal frame than Phil is.

You can clearly see that Kai's wider, bigger, has a rounder shape to his lats, he has more spread to his lats, and he has more thickness to his lats, than Phil has.

You can also see that he has a much bigger and protruding sweep than Phil.

On the other hand, Phil has bigger traps, which covers the middle portion of the back, but that is not enough to counter Kai's dominant lats and structure.

2.Finals



Again, it remains the same as pre-judging, the advantages Kai have are overwhelming Phil's.

My verdict for the finals Rear Relaxed: Kai

[RoroCwalker]

Now, addressing the primary mandatory poses.

Front Double Bicep

The pose also focuses on the "X" frame, although, it is ambiguous due to the variations of that pose. There's a lot of ambiguity directed towards assessing the proportions, due to that very reason.

There's various reasons for it to be altered, since it's not focused on a symmetrical stance (like the FLS/FR/RR/RLS/BDB), the limbs aren't needed to be attached to the body, nor are they in need to be perfectly aligned, due to the fact that the torso is also being altered.

There would be an issue of the arms aren't aligned but the rest of the torso is.

Although, by altering both the torso and the arms, and possibly the legs, you remain within an acceptable level of posing.

Arnold was one of those who altered his posing, altering the alignment of his hips to further enhance the illusion of having a smaller waist, versus Sergio, who kept everything aligned.



There were variations, many focusing on the disappearance of the waist.


I think Zane has something to do with that.

He already had an altered FDB.


But would the following pose, be the root of it actually installing itself as an acceptable mandatory? It has the same structure and posture, all you have to do is flex your biceps and bring your hands closer to your shoulders, and you have the altered version.



Here's an example of it being done it the 1990s~


Here's the alteration, being taken to an extreme to form a pose of it self, although, this one crosses the line and isn't acceptable for a FDB.




Now, assessing Phil and Kai,

1.Pre-judging



Phil's advantages over Kai

-Bigger forearms
-More apparent separation on the quads

Kai's advantages over Phil

-Rounder and bigger peak of the bicep
-More apparent lat flare
-Midsection is fully displayed and flexed (not that flexing inherently means it's better, but in that case, it is better.)
-Stomach not protruding
-Neck and stomach are under control
-Bigger and more vascular legs
-Bigger and rounder calves, although, they don't insert as low as Phil's
-Better posing

Let's take a closer look;



The arms.

Some may prefer Phil's arms, other may prefer Kai's arms.

I personally prefer Kai's arms due to the oval allure the bicep peak and the tricep hang gives, it's like seeing Arnold's arm with more tricep, also, not to mention that Kai shapes outwards, it has some sort of curve to it, mixed with a split in the middle.

Phil does have a good amount of detail himself, but he lacks of size (compared to Kai) and he fails tohide his assymetry, where as Kai hides his asymmetry with the way he poses (putting one arm higher than the other).


Now, the lats.

You can clearly see that Kai's insert lower (green line) and have a rounder shape than Phil's.

The flare is not exactly proportionate, or up to comparison, due to the altered posing.

Now, pointing to the stomach (orange circle), you'll notice that Phil has some distention, where as Kai, has flexed abs with no distention whatsoever. It draws out the illusion, it gives an illusion that despite the pelvis not being outwards, the stomach is still drawn out and "sucking" the illusion in, a bit like a dark hole, his stomach being projected outwards makes it so that everything seems "behind", it's hard to explain, but it's as if there's a "focus" on the stomach, which obviously, is a disadvantage.

[RoroCwalker]

Now, the legs.

The first thing I'm going to mention is the posing error Phil is doing.



Notice the imbalance in the posing.

His top posing is symmetrical, he's utilizing the standard FDB, like Dorian used to do it, although, he positions his legs in a way that compliments an altered and inclined upper body, he's mixing two separate perspectives and trying to combine them into one, and IMO, it doesn't match at all.

It's the same as using this;



instead of this;



It throws off the symmetry of the pose itself and makes it look awkward.

Sometimes, on different individuals (due to different proportions, (better quad sweep, etc.)), it might not look as bad, but on Phil, it doesn't play in his favor.

Here, you have Cedric doing it in a less pronounced way than Kai, but his hips are in a position that aligns and keeps that harmony between the upper and lower body, it doesn't throw off the pose like Phil.



Now, addressing the size/proportions/detail.

Phil definitely has more detail, but his quad sweep isn't as pronounced as Kai's.

Phil's calves insert lower than Kai but they do not have that diamond shape Kai's have, and they also aren't as thick/protruding as Kai's.

Kai has an advantage in terms of vascularity, you can see it through his upper quads and inner thighs.

Overall, Kai has a better structure, shape, size and possibly conditioning. He covers all the aspects, and he has better posing than Phil, while Phil is putting himself in a disadvantageous position with his leg positioning.

Verdict for the Front Double Bicep at pre-judging : Kai


2.Finals





*Note: Phil would be smaller in a fair comparison, in these pictures, he is over the line, appearing bigger than he actually he is.

Phil having filled out, he caught up with Kai on the upper body, he now has a more controlled stomach and better shape.

Is it enough to beat Kai in the FDB? Not IMO.

While Phil might be close in terms of his upper body, his lower body is still not up to par, despite the separation Phil has, at the finals, Kai showed up with separated quads in the FDB, giving him a complete advantage over the legs.



The vascularity, the detail, the size, the sweep, the leg positioning, is beating Phil at it.

Despite Phil having caught up with Kai in the upper body, the lower body still does not cover enough grounds to give him the win for this pose.

Verdict for the Front Double Bicep at the finals : Kai

[deathmetal1992]

Will read later, how much time did it take you do this analysis?

[RoroCwalker]

Front Lat Spread

The Front Lat Spread is basically a Front Relaxed with the restriction of having your hands somewhere on along your waist, giving you the opportunity to play around with your elbows, which may serve to further spread your lats than when you were in the Front Relaxed, it could serve as a stabilizer for your lower back, to play with your pelvis without being unbalanced (leaning forward/backwards), it could also serve as a way to further flex your chest (going forward with your elbows), and most importantly, it could also serve as a way to appear bigger by squeezing your waist in.

The pose focuses on the "X" frame, with the key components being your width, your lat flare, your shoulder/waist ratio, and your quad flare.

Due to the fact that some may appear larger, there will be a need to bend your knees to make your quads align with your width, giving you a more proportionate look and further enhancing the "X" frame.

An example;



It has never changed.





Now, assesing Phil and Kai,



Phil's advantages over Kai;

-Thicker chest
-Bigger forearms
-Can induce nostalgia by giving the allure of the Pokemon; Diglett.

Kai's advantages over Phil;

-Wider structure
-Neck is not interfering with the pose
-Dominant lat flare
-Abdominals are fully apparent
-Better shoulder to waist ratio
-Better posture/posing
-Dominant quad sweep
-More vascularity through the legs
-Better calves (diamond shape~)

Let's take a closer look;



You can clearly see how Phil's structure is a disadvantage.

Kai's clavicle to lats ratio is much closer to 1, than Phil's is. (Sky blue lines, showing the angles)

Now refer to the orange lines, look at how Kai's do an almost perfect "X", while Phil's do an asymmetrical and non-proportionate "X", his legs exceed the ideal capacity of the quad's flare to clavicle frame. It is both triggered by his narrow structure and the way he positions his quads.

He could have avoided the asymmetry by positioning his legs symmetrically, but regardless, he still would have to do deal with the disadvantageous frame he's portraying.

Note how Phil also puts his elbows in a more forward positioning, which puts emphasis on the size of his arms, and in that case, it is not beneficial, as it covers his lats more, it could also overpower his shoulders and chest.

Overall, Kai's superior structure, size and posing overwhelm Phil in this pose.

Verdict for the Front Lat Spread in Pre-Judging : Kai


2.Finals




The analysis remains the same, although, Kai's look even more detailed and vascular than pre-judging.

Kai is overwhelming in most aspects of this pose.

Verdict for the Front Lat Spread in Finals : Kai

[RoroCwalker]

Side Chest

The side's chest primary focus is the display of a thick chest, big/wide arms, and decent legs with the ideal proportions.

This pose also suffers from an ambiguity in terms of posing.

The "standard" or should I say, "original" side chest was Arnold's;








The other arm/shoulders were not meant to be exposed.

But you always had what Arnold would call "The front chest";

[Larfleeze]

Phil's rear relaxed always bugs me due to the weird tilting to the right thing he has going on.

[RoroCwalker]

Which is basically what Lou is doing here;


And it became the norm after a while.




So, the standard about retracting both of your scapula while exposing your thorax to it's fullest, has disappeared.

It seems like what Arnold was preaching, is now the complete opposite;


No one seems to "open up" anymore. It may be due to the fact that the arms/shoulders of today would overpower such a chest, or the opposite could be true.

Now, assessing Kai and Phil,

1.Pre-judging



Phil's advantages over Kai;

-Bigger traps
-More defined obliques
-Bigger forearms
-Less stomach protruding

Kai's advantages over Phil;

-Better display of the arms and shoulder (better peak, more defined tricep, wider/bigger shoulders)
-Vascularity through the arms and legs
-Legs are a reminiscence of Coleman vs Jay;
a)Better quad sweep
b)Striations along the quads
c)More defined hamstring, with a more defined tie-in (between the quads and the hamstrings)
d)Glutes are much bigger and are striated
e)The calves are overwhelming Phil's, they have an overwhelming amount of definition compared to Phil



There's nothing to highlight except the fact that Kai has stomach distention.

You can clearly see the superior development of Phil's traps.

Phil has no significant distention and his obliques are more defined than Kai's, although, I do not find that enough to overwhelm Kai's superior arm/delts development, and overwhelming legs, everything from the glutes to the quads, to hamstrings, to the calves, is more developped than Phil.

It reminds me of the following comparison (although, Coleman's chest would have to be somewhat equal to Jay's);


Although, I can understand that Kai's distention plays in favor of Phil, although, not to the point of giving Phil the pose, IMO.

Verdict of the Side Chest in Pre-Judging : Kai

[RoroCwalker]

2.Finals




Now, if we take a closer look;


It's hard to judge, Phil reminds me of the ancient Egyptian art;


It basically became a Side Most Hands Clasped Most Muscular pose.

It's like trying to judge Kuclo's side tricep, with the others;


It also disadvantages Phil because his upper body overpowers his lower body.

Despite the complications behind trying to judge this sort of comparison, I still see Kai as being in a very good position to win it, due to the main assets being compared.

Verdict of the Side Chest in Finals : Kai

[RoroCwalker]

Side Tricep

The side tricep is basically a side relaxed with both scapula retracted (if hit right), and the leg positioning of a side chest, it resolves around the same construction of a Side Chest, but instead of flexing your biceps and leaning towards your chest (depends), you're extending your elbow and flexing your tricep while expanding your chest (not necessarily). Often, you will see guys shrugging their primary shoulder instead of keeping it lowered down.







Now assessing Kai and Phil,

1.Pre-Judging

Note This picture is photoshopped, so the scaling might be off, there we no comparisons from Team-Andro who were of both of them.



Well, considering the difference in the pose, the advantages and disadvantages can't be correctly assessed because Kai pulled a Kuclo.

I'll assess the advantages and disadvantages in a general manner;

-Phil's conditioning is being beat by Kai's
-Phil's arms are better than Kai's
-Phil doesn't have that oblique definition he usually has in his Side Chest, nor does Kai.
-Both of their midsections are not significantly displayed.
-Phil has some stomach distention
-Phil has a thicker chest

Since I can't compare their legs, I'd have to go with who looks more "pleasing", I'd say Kai looks more pleasing, although, that gives neither of them the win.

We'll leave it at "undecided" for the pre-judging, but if Kai were to hit it like Phil, it would probably be a tie or Phil would take it.


Verdict for the Side Tricep in Pre-Judging: Phil or undecided.


2.Finals

[RoroCwalker]

Let's take a closer look;


As expected, Phil is dominating the upperbody, both of their stomachs have some distention.

Kai's shoulders are overpowering his triceps, their insertions are not ideal, although, they show more striations and detail than Phil's.

Kai's chest seems to have flatten out and his midsection dull.

Although, Kai is dominating the lowerbody, but not enough to overcome the disadvantages he faces against Phil.

Even though they both have a distinctive disadvantage, Phil's physique has the aspects needed to overwhelm Kai.

Verdict for the Side Tricep in Finals : Phil

[RoroCwalker]

Rear Lat Spread

The Rear Lat Spread is a pose that focuses on the spread of your back, your structure, the size and thickness of your back. Much like the Rear Relaxed, it focuses on those aspects, although, now you restricted by attaching your arms to your waist. You can use your elbows to release or tense up your scapula, according to how much detail/width you want to display.







Some people will put more emphasis on the details of the pose, others will value thickness/width/size more.

At the 2012 Mr.Olympia, an Olympia judge made a breakdown and he gave the following description when addressing Phil vs Kai in the rear lat spread,

They gave the win to Kai and said;
" BREAKDOWN: Phil’s back is good but it’s not as wide and thick in the middle as Kai’s is. Kais is so full right down to the glutes. Kai’s hamstrings were amazing. Phil’s were good too, but Kai’s were amazing. He’s just so full down to his lower lats and glutes, and that’s what gave him this pose. Phil’s got a really good upper and upper middle back but his lower back is not as developed as Kai’s. Kais’s back is one of the most – if not the most – complete back in bodybuilding. That’s one of the reasons why so close."


Now, let's address Kai vs Phil;

1.Pre-Judging




Phil's advantages over Kai;

-More defined and bigger traps
-Vascularity covering the traps
-(Kai seems not to be flexing his hamstrings or glutes) - More definition through out the hamstrings and glutes
-Forearms


Kai's advantages over Phi;

-Wider structure
-Thicker lats
-Bigger shoulders
-Dominant quad sweep
-More definition through the calves

Let's take a closer look;


Now, both Phil and Kai have a good structure for this pose, none of them look awkward or out of place, but comparatively speaking, you can notice the difference in shoulder/waist/quad ratio between Phil and Kai.

Kai has a superior shoulder/waist/quad ratio, giving him a more imposing look, mixed with the roundness of his lats and the insane size it carries, the difference in thickness is noticeable.

Encircled in blue, you can see that Kai's lats' thickness is overwhelming Phil's, but on the counter part, Phil's lower back is actually apparent.

Phil does have bigger and more defined traps, although, with Kai's new posing technique, Phil's detail advantage is not as significant anymore, and it any case, it wouldn't be enough to overwhelm Kai's size, structure and thickness.

Phil does have more detail throughout his hamstrings and glutes, but at the moment of the picture, Kai wasn't fully flexing, although, you can refer to picture of MD referred above.

Verdict for the Rear Lat Spread : Kai

[RoroCwalker]

2.Finals




*Team-Andro caught it when Kai wasn't done spreading.

The analysis remains the same, nothing has significantly changed.

Verdict for the Rear Lat Spread at Finals: Kai

[RoroCwalker]

Back Double Bicep

One of the most, if not the most important and glorified pose in bodybuilding.
It exploits the muscular development you have throughout your whole back, the delts, the rear of the arms, and the the glutes, hamstrings, quads, calves.

The pose relies a lot of the "X' frame, which will be provided by the width of the lats, the thickness of the lats, the thickness of traps, the detail surrounding the whole area, including the arms and the delts.







Now, assessing Phil and Kai;

1.Pre-Judging




Phil's advantages over Kai;

-Bigger traps
-Bigger forearms
-More apparent lower back
-(Kai isn't flexing his glutes nor his hamstrings) - More definition throughout those areas

Kai's advantages over Phil;

-Better arms (better peaks from both sides)
-Wider structure
-More separated throughout the back
-Thicker back
-Better lat flare
-Symmetrical posing

[RoroCwalker]

Now, let's take a closer look;


You can clearly see that Kai has a wider, bigger and thicker set of lats.

While Phil has a wider, bigger and thicker set of traps and a more visible lower back.

Do you consider Phil's advantages enough to overwhelm Kai's? I don't.

The lats are dominating in terms of proportions, they cover more of the back and actually cover the aspect of width/thickness and they are the ones creating the silhouette, while the traps are of second priority, they are within the confines of the actual shape of the back.

I won't address the legs with that picture, because Kai is not flexed.

Overall, Kai has a much more imposing Back Double Bicep, his structure, size and thickness, mixed with the detail of his lats, are overwhelming Phil's back, which is narrower, less thick and not as big as Kai's, although, he does have a better set of traps and a better lower back, but for the most part, doesn't beat Kai's.

Verdict for the Back Double Bicep in Pre-Judging : Kai


2.Finals






Team-Andro's picture was mistimed, I used MD's instead.

The analysis remains the same, although, now that we have a clear shot of Kai's flexed glutes and hamstrings, I'll assess those,

You can see that Kai's glutes are not as striated as Phil's, although, they carry much more size and for the conditioning they're in, we could make it a tie. Also notice that Kai isn't flexing his glutes inwards, his pelvis is thrown towards the crowd, making it even harder to fully flex his glutes and create that "crevace" illusion, Phil has.

The hamstrings are Kai's, the separation is deeper than Phil's and the hamstring itself is much bigger than Phil's.

The calves are a tie, due to the fact that Kai isn't elavating his heels from the floor as much as he normally would, so that takes away from the maximum amount of detail he can provide.

To summarize, Kai beats Phil in the bottom half and the upper half, he has the whole thing covered, meaning that the pose goes to him, again.

Kai's back reminds me of this;



Verdict for the Back Double Bicep in Finals : Kai

[RoroCwalker]

Abs & Thighs

A pose that displays and exploits the midsection at it's fullest, completely unveiling anything that hides it. There are some variations of it, like the "side ab&thigh", often hit by Kai, but usually, it's always hit from the front. Some might use some variations and play with angles to hide their weaknesses (i.e. wide waist). Although the pose is called "Abs & Thighs", there are also other aspects being judged, of course, there's the lat flare, and the arms are close to insignificant.



Now, let's assess Phil and Kai,

1.Pre-Judging


Phil's advantages over Kai;

-Waist

Kai's advantages over Phil;

-Structure
-Size of the lats
-Better midsection (6 pack)
-Quads separation and striations
-Calves (diamond shaped)~
-Vascularity throughout the legs
-Bigger arms

The advantages speak for themselves.

Kai has a more proportionate, standardized and symmetrical mid section, although his waist is wider, his lat flare and legs do not let that be of any concern.

Both of them are proportinate considering their lat own proportions, although, when put side by side, Kai's superior size, structure, and detail, take it.

It reminds me of this (except the legs);



In every aspect, Phil is getting beat.

Kai's arms are bigger;


Kai's chest and lats are thicker/wider, they're bigger.


Kai's midsection is closer to the ideal "6 pack";


Kai's legs are more detailed, maybe not as separated, but the striations and separations are enough to take out Phil's.


Verdict for the Abs&Thigh in pre-judging : Kai


2.Finals



The analysis remains the same, although, Kai isn't fully flexing his legs, which plays as a disadvantage in terms of separation, but that still isn't enough for Kai to lose the pose.
 
Verdict for the Abs&Thigh in Finals : Kai

[flangmasterj]

Skipped through and saw you had Kai winning the rear lat spread. No point reading anything else.


Phil won. Go outside.

[RoroCwalker]

Most Muscular

The most muscular, I don't have much to say about it, it's certainly an intense pose, and in some cases can be beautiful. There's a lot of variations, including the the Hands Clasped/Hands on Hips/ One hand on hip/Reverse handed/Crab/etc. most muscular.

The point of the pose is simply, as the pose says, to display your full musculature, usually it'll be performed by flexing the entire body while hiding the waist, to accentuate the illusion of having no waist, which creates a focus on the other muscle groups, and to not throw off the flow of the pose.






Now, to assess Phil and Kai;

1.Pre-Judging



It's not the same pose, so I won't list the advantages and disadvantages.

The pose goes to Phil, his muscle bellies and separation make a good case for it, against Kai.

Kai's new crab is utterly dull and simply does not fit his physique.
He may have done it to accentuate his arms and structure, and also hide his waist, but, IMO, it doesn't match him well. He looks deflated due to the lack of the chest split he usually has.

Kai would need to fill those "gaps" like the crab MM he did at the 2009 Mr.Olympia.


He doesn't have that "compact" look Phil has in the hand clasped.




Verdict for the Most Muscular in Pre-Judging : Phil

[RoroCwalker]

2. Finals


Now that's much better and it's the same pose.

Let's take a closer look;


Kai filled in those gaps, now he has that "compact" look.

Kai's traps are even better than Phil, now.

Phil has more vascularity and fuller arms.

The main counter argument for this will be "Kai's delts are flat and stringy".

I understand that, but that doesn't make the pose any worse for him, a traditional crab is not supposed to show any "pop" to the delts like Phil has. Look at Arnold/Wolf, they've never had that "pop" and that's because of how the pose is being excuted.

Phil hits the pose without fully augmenting his scapula, which also shows due to the fact that his traps remain the same, he's simply doing a "cable fly".

One of Kai's arm isn't on a fully frontal plan, which is why it looks stringy, but if it were hit 2011 NY-Pro style, it would have been much better.

The main flaw here is that Kai shows no chest striations, it doesn't even seem flexed, there isn't his trademark split.

The legs are comparable in that picture, Kai's legs are overshadowed by his upper body and we can't really see the separation.

Phil's flaw is simply his structure and how he poses it, he needs to fill those gaps for him to have that compact "most muscular" look. His "crab" MM isn't even a crab MM, but regardless of that, he looks like the following;



Overall, I believe both of their MM's are terrible, one has the advantages the other doesn't.

I'd say it's a tie but due to Kai's lack of trademark chest striations and split, I'd be inclined towards Phil.

Verdict for the Most Muscular in Finals : Phil

[RoroCwalker]

TL;DR

Kai wins 10 poses out of 12.
Phil wins 2 poses out of 10.

Front Relaxed: Kai
Side Relaxed L/R: Kai
Rear Relaxed: Kai

Front Double Bicep: Kai
Front Lat Spread: Kai
Side Chest: Kai
Side Tricep: Phil
Rear Lat Spread: Kai
Back Double Bicep: Kai
Abs&Thigh: Kai
Most Muscular: Phil

[RoroCwalker]

Will read later, how much time did it take you do this analysis?

I don't know exactly, I started yesterday.

[BigBalledBuddha]

Did you happen to watch the olympia show last weekend bro? Phil should have won imo, what do you think bro? k peace out bye

[Deano87]

dude, Im a massive Kai fan, and I really dont like Phil at all, but that sir was one big crock of ****.
I agree with some of your points, but not all.
You really know how to present your argument well when it suits your opinion.
That's all im going to say.
LOL @ Kai winning every pose except 2. Cmon.

[Aussieguy101]

That's a lot of work to show kai should have won

Have you considered emailing your analysis to the Olympia organisers ?

[RoroCwalker]

dude, Im a massive Kai fan, and I really dont like Phil at all, but that sir was one big crock of ****.
I agree with some of your points, but not all.
You really know how to present your argument well when it suits your opinion.
That's all im going to say.
LOL @ Kai winning every pose except 2. Cmon.

Is it just because of the surprise of how low the number is, or do you actually know which poses you disagree with?

[SammyJr]

someone needs to email Farah for Kai to do his hands behind back MM pose

[cedricnumerouno]

Skipped through and saw you had Kai winning the rear lat spread. No point reading anything else.


Phil won. Go outside.

This.
You put structure first, in my books and view muscle shape, attachments and conditioning is valued higher.

[RoroCwalker]

This.
You put structure first, in my books and view muscle shape, attachments and conditioning is valued higher.

The judges themselves gave the RLS to Kai in 2012, at his flattest.

And "muscle shape", Kai has the roundest lats, not to mention, the thickest.