Biggest joke of the year (Ramy vs Branch)

[Deano87]

Who tell you that? So its easy to be 300lbs at stage or 290 ? Or to be 335lbs off? And who tell you the conditioning its the main criteria ? Then why Bonac is 15?
Then this guy beat Phil and its next Mr.Olympia ?

It's obvious the judges favour conditioning more than any other criteria. I'm not inventing that.
Anyone can be 300lbs on stage. Being conditioned is far more important.

[Dystopia1980]

It's obvious the judges favour conditioning more than any other criteria. I'm not inventing that.
Anyone can be 300lbs on stage. Being conditioned is far more important.

This would maybe make sense if it were always the case but the criteria is always changing.
One show the more conditioned guy wins, in another the bigger guy wins. Kuclo won the AC Brazil looking watery over a smaller but much better conditioned Beyeke.

Also, how do you explain Bonac getting 15th? His conditioning was not 15th best and he looked great in all other aspects as well.

[Caesar164]

Bonac and Delarosa are just simply to small. They look better suited for the 212 division..

[Masry3]

FLS: Ramy
FDB: Ramy
SC: Branch
ST: Branch
BDB: Ramy
RLS: Ramy
A&T: Ramy
MM: Ramy

Ramy: 8 poses
Branch : 3 poses

I disagree with you on this. Why would you give side chest to branch?

[purdey]

This would maybe make sense if it were always the case but the criteria is always changing.
One show the more conditioned guy wins, in another the bigger guy wins. Kuclo won the AC Brazil looking watery over a smaller but much better conditioned Beyeke.

Also, how do you explain Bonac getting 15th? His conditioning was not 15th best and he looked great in all other aspects as well.

Maybe he was marked down for his tattoos? I noticed Wolf had his covered.

[cedricnumerouno]

Maybe he was marked down for his tattoos? I noticed Wolf had his covered.

Legit didn't even notice them this time, only thing I can thing of from my perspective is this 'paying your dues' BS.

[Fairfax]

Branch must've paid a lot of dues over the years.

[Kulutues]

Branch must've sucked a lot of dudes over the years.

fixed

[zzliam779]

What i cant ****ing understand about the whole ifbb olympia judging, they say Branch beat ramy because of conditioning even though ramy is WAYYYYYYYY BIGGER and more symetrical, if thats the case and they are rating conditioning so highly then sure but then why the **** did phil win? If conditioning is that highly rated then im sure the difference in size and symetry between phil, kai rhoden and wolf would not have been enough to earn phil the victory. By those standards surely he is no better than third? **** the ifbb has no consistency

edit: just realised this had already been mentioned lol

[Deano87]

Maybe he was marked down for his tattoos? I noticed Wolf had his covered.

Interesting point.
It mentioned tattoo's in the rule book paragraph that Roro posted not long ago.

[RoroCwalker]

I disagree with you on this. Why would you give side chest to branch?

It is true that I can equally see the SC going to Ramy.

Although,


The legs, Branch has better calves, a more protruding quad sweep, better glutes and a better conditioning.
They're both equal in size.



From the top, Ramy has much more impressive size and width, the top would go for Ramy.
While Branch has great vascularity, shows striations on the chest.

What made incline towards Branch?

Ramy's proportions in the SC.


It's almost as if he's too wide for his legs not to be overpowered.

But truly, it can go both ways, I can also see Ramy taking the side chest.

[T3mpest]

What poses do you guys accord to Branch/Ramy?

Following this template;

Front Relaxed:
Side Relaxed:
Rear Relaxed:

Front Lat Spread:
Front Double Bicep:
Side Chest:
Side Tricep:
Back Double Bicep:
Rear Lat Spread:
Abs & Thighs:
Most Muscular:

With the pics posted earlier...

Front Relaxed: Ramy
Side Relaxed: Branch
Rear Relaxed: Branch (hate all you want, he easily wins the lower body which is 1/2 the battle and he lower back is much tighter, plus he's got a wide back relaxed for his frame

Front Lat Spread: Ramy
Front Double Bicep: Ramy
Side Chest: Branch
Side Tricep: Branch
Back Double Bicep: Ramy
Rear Lat Spread: Tie, Ramy is huge he is really out of shape in this pose and it REALLY shows.. I can easily see where you could give this to branch, again wide for his size and much more condititoned in back and legs, nearly a tie here.
Abs & Thighs: Branch, his waist looks SO small in this pose, better lat flare, smaller legs (that crazy someone has bigger legs than branch here lol)
Most Muscular lmfao, easily Ramy, this is Branchs worst pose and Ramy's best.

So for me that's 5 and 5 with one tie.. I hate to make it a tie, but Branch has a strong RLS, underrrated in my eyes. For his height Ramy's not blowing him away and he is more conditioned head to toe in that pose, with leg size to keep up as well. So for Branch to pull out the win when he cleary put more effort into his prep and did a better job on that end and basically keeps up pose for pose, I don't see that as a travesty at all. If Ramy wants top 6 he needs to come in with glutes and hams that aren't out of shape. It wasn't like he held water it was just FAT all through the lower back and down. Branch has always been like that, he holds alot of muscle for his frame and if he comes in on point, he looks very impressive and can beat guys who come in off with better shape or structure.. As someone else said, the pics dont' fully do him justice. When he is really conditioned seeing him move and flex on stage has a different look than someone who lacks seperation like Ramy who just kinda looks the same. I noticed in the webcast like it or not, his conditioning drew my eyes toward him. I wanted Vic to do well this year and I felt even Vic didn't beat him either, which made me sad lol. That being said, the fact that Ramy got 7th is also a huge credit to the props the judges DID give him for his size. Remember the year wolf was way off, didn't even make the top 10!

[T3mpest]

This would maybe make sense if it were always the case but the criteria is always changing.
One show the more conditioned guy wins, in another the bigger guy wins. Kuclo won the AC Brazil looking watery over a smaller but much better conditioned Beyeke.

Also, how do you explain Bonac getting 15th? His conditioning was not 15th best and he looked great in all other aspects as well.

Bonac and Delarosa are just simply to small. They look better suited for the 212 division..

That is it.. They need guys for the 212 Division. It's there for a reason. For guys who CAN compete at 212 and choose to do the open, they mark them down heavily to make a point. Judges dont' want to try and compare someone who is significantly smaller than the rest of the field, even if they have great shape and structure to a guy like Ramy or Wolf. They used to do it and give decently fair shakes, guys like hide could make top 10 if they were shredded and others were off.. Nowadays they dont' give them the same credit and place them nearly dead last. Baito had the same fate last year. Probably should have been 12-14, got a DNP IIRC.

Edit Also a conditioned Ramy just destroys that lineup and that was the second callout, if that tells you anything. In his current form he is easily a top 5 guy if he is conditoned, I don't see a reaosn he couldn't beat Rhonden TBH.

[Exane]

With the pics posted earlier...

Front Relaxed: Ramy
Side Relaxed: Branch
Rear Relaxed: Branch (hate all you want, he easily wins the lower body which is 1/2 the battle and he lower back is much tighter, plus he's got a wide back relaxed for his frame

Front Lat Spread: Ramy
Front Double Bicep: Ramy
Side Chest: Branch
Side Tricep: Branch
Back Double Bicep: Ramy
Rear Lat Spread: Tie, Ramy is huge he is really out of shape in this pose and it REALLY shows.. I can easily see where you could give this to branch, again wide for his size and much more condititoned in back and legs, nearly a tie here.
Abs & Thighs: Branch, his waist looks SO small in this pose, better lat flare, smaller legs (that crazy someone has bigger legs than branch here lol)
Most Muscular lmfao, easily Ramy, this is Branchs worst pose and Ramy's best.

So for me that's 5 and 5 with one tie.. I hate to make it a tie, but Branch has a strong RLS, underrrated in my eyes. For his height Ramy's not blowing him away and he is more conditioned head to toe in that pose, with leg size to keep up as well. So for Branch to pull out the win when he cleary put more effort into his prep and did a better job on that end and basically keeps up pose for pose, I don't see that as a travesty at all. If Ramy wants top 6 he needs to come in with glutes and hams that aren't out of shape. It wasn't like he held water it was just FAT all through the lower back and down. Branch has always been like that, he holds alot of muscle for his frame and if he comes in on point, he looks very impressive and can beat guys who come in off with better shape or structure.. As someone else said, the pics dont' fully do him justice. When he is really conditioned seeing him move and flex on stage has a different look than someone who lacks seperation like Ramy who just kinda looks the same. I noticed in the webcast like it or not, his conditioning drew my eyes toward him. I wanted Vic to do well this year and I felt even Vic didn't beat him either, which made me sad lol. That being said, the fact that Ramy got 7th is also a huge credit to the props the judges DID give him for his size. Remember the year wolf was way off, didn't even make the top 10!

I agree a lot with this here.

I think most everyone would agree that Ramy has the more prefered physique, but based on what we can guess the judging criteria is, I can see why Branch would edge Ramy out. I think the biggest thing that sucks for him is his lats are just mangled now. If he has some good lat symetry, he would be much more respected. Lats are just too big to hid, a lot of other flaws can be hidden and over looked, but the issues with his back ruins the flow of his phsique.

Overall I was more impressed with how Branch looked compared to what I was expecting from him.... and I was more disapointed with how Ramy looked compared to what I was expecting from him. If that makes sense.

[Kulutues]

Judges dont' want to try and compare someone who is significantly smaller than the rest of the field, even if they have great shape and structure to a guy like Ramy or Wolf.

You're right,,,that's why they send back Phil after scoring perfect and keep him away from the big boys

[stealth_swimmer]

in for stealth saying branch had them slabs of granite muscle u can only see in person

Nope. He's got an ugly physique but the judges rewarded his superior conditioning vs Ramy. In other words, they each got things the other doesn't have. Hard for me to pic one vs the other. I like aesthetics so I wanna go with Army, but he was really soft. I like conditioning, too, but Branch is blocky.

[stealth_swimmer]

This would maybe make sense if it were always the case but the criteria is always changing.
One show the more conditioned guy wins, in another the bigger guy wins. Kuclo won the AC Brazil looking watery over a smaller but much better conditioned Beyeke.

Also, how do you explain Bonac getting 15th? His conditioning was not 15th best and he looked great in all other aspects as well.

Like I said before, it's a tradeoff and not every judge is gonna weigh the same things as heavily as another. However, the Olympia has favored conditioning a little bit more ever since Dorian became the Mr. Olympia.

[Fairfax]

However, the Olympia has favored conditioning a little bit more ever since Dorian became the Mr. Olympia.

I was under the impression there was a backing-off from too much encouragement of conditioning as the 90's wore on due to concerns about especially dangerous use of diuretics? Or am I imagining things?

[xplicid01]

Let me start by prefacing I'm not a judge that understand all factors nor have I seen pre judging photos. That being said, I was at the olympia and saw both competitors in person.

I have never been a branch fan; I'm not a fan of his physique, training style or even his personality. However, to my untrained eye, branch was the most conditioned of any athlete. It absolutely BLEW my mind to see that sort of conditioning...branch when going from unflexed to flexed was like watching Bruce banner turn into the hulk... his dryness along with the muscle maturity and vascularity was like any other on stage. I wish I could explain it better, but it was mind blowing.

There were massive flaws: size, symmetry, proportions but branch does deserve respect (maybe not his placing). Branch showed me something I have never in my life seen in the first person and that's pretty rare.

Those who truly have been around the sport, have seen elite bbers with size and proportion, can appreciate what Branch brought to the stage, simply because it's rare to see someone that conditioned

Edit* photos can only do so much, remember judges have the best seats in the house and have perspective that we will never have access to

[Nuki]

Roro, from your first set of pictures I have Branch ahead. Ramy looks very very soft.
Conditioning is definitely the primary criteria. And IMO it should be, as its the hardest to master.
From your second set, I have Ramy ahead, he seemed to have dried out alot.
I believe the scorecard accurately reflected this.

No... no... and no! Branch improved from last year and looked decent, this does not justify placing above ramy, vic, morel or bonac. Branch is a wreck.

If conditioning is the most important criteria why didn't dexter win the whole show? Why didn't Correa take the 212 title? It's because conditioning is no more important than any other physique criteria when compared against politics.

[Alito2013]

If conditioning is the most important criteria why didn't dexter win the whole show? Why didn't Correa take the 212 title? It's because conditioning is no more important than any other physique criteria when compared against politics.

This^^^^^^^^