I aware you why LEAN BULKING is the biggest bro science [srs]

[overMotivated]

Pepper your angus, i'm about to unleash 3 very strong points at you non believers.



To start off lets state the obvious: when you are bulking you need a calorie suprplus, if you want to bulk lean, roughly 300 cals over maintenance is a good rule of thumb.

1. Here we run into the first problem - most people cannot get their maintenance cal # right. They could roughly ballpark it, but when doing something as precise as a bulk on only 300 surplus calories, you can't rely on guesstimates... You need exact #s. You need to know exactly what your maintenance is, because if you underestimate it by 300, your "caloric surplus" of 300 will result in nothing but you maintaining. If you OVER estimate, you might not notice that you're actually gaining fat, but you will be - and you will only become aware of it after months and months of what seemed to be a clean bulk, resulting in you having to do a cut ANYWAY. Something you tried to avoid by doing a clean bulk.

2. This leads us to the next problem - most people do not have a regulated 7 day lifestyle. In fact, not just most, im ready to bet 95% of this forum doesnt. Sure, you have your regular activities. Work/college/whatever it is you know you do regularly and expend energy on, in terms of walking or whatever you do on the job, remains generally speaking normalized. Now one night you decide to go out to a club and dance. Dance for 4 hrs to hit music? hello 900 + cals. Do 3 slow dances and chill at the bar for the rest of the night? Maybe 50 cals burned tops. And obviously theres a million more deviations in activity that occur if have a life, the dancing being just one example. What does this mean? One day you might be on a calorie surplus, the next on a deficit. +300 one day, -600 the next, over the course of the week what's the total surplus you had? Possibly 0, depending on how well you kept track of your chit. Congrats, you just carefully watched your diet and lifted all week, and made no gains. Week of "bulking" wasted.

3. Last problem - it's impossible to enjoy a big part of human social life - food outings. You can't really eat at a restaurant or eat out, or even grab food when on a cut - because you need to stick to your macros and make sure you stay on a deficit, otherwise youre ruining your progress. This is temporary, until you're done with the cut. What happens on a lean bulk? Suddenly you have to watch your calories not just for 6 weeks or so, while you cut, you have to watch them for months and years on end. You need exact numbers every day, not for a short period of time, but all along your "lean bulk" - which might be years. No more stopping by Qdoba to grab a burrito of gains, can't go to that italian restaurant bcuz who knows what the macros and cals in those meals are. And you can only "cheat meal" so often. Otherwise it becomes just a regular dirty, or at least no longer a strict clean bulk.



Conclusion : lean bulking, the way it is often described is complete bs.

I've since stopped wasting my time and resorted to simply eating CLEAN FOOD (never processed or ready made, simplest ingredients cooked into a meal BY ME at home) and seen great results. Gains are through the roof, fat gains might be there but mental health is 100% knowing I dont have to keep track of cals like I do on a cut. The bulk becomes fun again. You can hit a restaurant here and there. You can grab a burrito after the gym with your bros. And most importantly, if you went to dance for the night, you just go home and dig in an extra plate. Knowing that you're gonna have to be religious about macros and cals when you have to cut is enough of a headache. Making a life style out of this is misery provoking.



TLDR:
-clean bulking is a waste
-OP is right as always
-OP may be a *******



hehe ty men for your time

-pit bull



EDIT:

those who want to argue that a clean bulk can be maintained by watching your WEIGHT, pls go.
watching your weight, and especially the superficial fluctuation that occurs when you are eating very close to maintenance, it is impossible to tell whether you are truly gaining or losing unless measurements are taken 2-3 months apart. At which point you potentially already gained excess fat, or have been wasting your time all along. Adjusting food intake depending on weight is the biggest bro science. Water weight and so many other factors will make this inconsitent.


a point that is often brought up as an argument

I don't really see watching calories as a sacrifice though. I actually like it. I don't find it restrictive at all. I guesstimate my food when I eat out and that's good enough. Anyone that has been counting calories and weighing food for a while can easily give a decent estimate of how many calories are in a meal.

I'm glad eating until full works for you, but some of us don't have that luxury. I would easily put down 5-7k cals a day if I ate that way

The issue with "guesstimating" is you no longer are on what is guaranteed to be a clean bulk. If you want to achieve, by forum standards, what is considered a clean bulk with ZERO excess fat gain, you should maintain a calorie surplus of about 300-500 depending on your metabolism.

As soon as you start eyeballing, the point is moot. One day you might have undereaten thanks to under-eyeballing, one day you might have overeaten. Some weeks you might have over-eaten by a lot, when you add up the estimation errors over the course of a week. What happens to the excess? Fat.


much like one of the above posters said

most of us cannot lean bulk properly. 300-500 calories would mean the difference between saying yes or no to the one snack we would run into during the day.

this holds true. A small deviation in food intake can be as large as 300-500 calories of impact on your body. Eye balling is something I approve of. Counting calories on a bulk to keep it "as lean as possible", not so much.

[Skinnyphuck96]

I agree, usually I just use the most aggressive bulking option in IIFYM

[Retibra]

jk, I read it

[JMAG90]

Let me add this tip to OP's great advice to enhance your gains even further (this is my routine in the gym).

Basically my best tip for workouts is muscle confusion.
When I hit the rack I try to make as much noise as possible, knocking the weights together, kicking my water bottle, anything that will confuse my muscles.
The next thing I do is grunt and scream as I'm lifting, this creates brain confusion and in turn creates muscle confusion.

[betamax69]

Yea totally agree actually. I don't even count calories on a bulk. I will just keep a running estimate in my head and just get over 4k. That's it, basically eat what I want.

[IntoTheNewWorld]

Zyzz did not count calories.

[mp83]

Let me add this tip to OP's great advice to enhance your gains even further (this is my routine in the gym).

Basically my best tip for workouts is muscle confusion.
When I hit the rack I try to make as much noise as possible, knocking the weights together, kicking my water bottle, anything that will confuse my muscles.
The next thing I do is grunt and scream as I'm lifting, this creates brain confusion and in turn creates muscle confusion.

Just be sure to only work one muscle per day, bro. If you work more than one muscle per day, the protein gets confused and doesn't know where to go.

[TLTrooper]

most of us cannot lean bulk properly. 300-500 calories would mean the difference between saying yes or no to the one snack we would run into during the day.

Forever cutting crew

[miscHelix]

Let me add this tip to OP's great advice to enhance your gains even further (this is my routine in the gym).

Basically my best tip for workouts is muscle confusion.
When I hit the rack I try to make as much noise as possible, knocking the weights together, kicking my water bottle, anything that will confuse my muscles.
The next thing I do is grunt and scream as I'm lifting, this creates brain confusion and in turn creates muscle confusion.

This. Also only work a specific muscle at a time to avoid protein confusion. If you work multiple muscles at once your protein will get confused and not know which muscle to go to.

[Aesthetic2210]

Mister Zane would like to have a word with you OP.

[Johnnyfalcon731]

You know how I know youre wrong.. Been doing it for years.. I am now at my lowest weight/bf with my highest lbm.. It did take time.. It is a marathon .. Not a sprint. I can only assume next year I will weigh a little bit more .. I'm good with that.

[arn710]

I don't really understand the difference between what you're doing and "lean bulking"

It appears that the only difference is tracking macros

[tricepwarrior]

Mister Zane would like to have a word with you OP.

That's easy for him to say when taking creatine + godlike genetics.

[Rellay]

I don't wanna don't wanna transition to fat and then to skinny fat again, so imma kaap clean bulking, Opie.

[overMotivated]

I don't really understand the difference between what you're doing and "lean bulking"

It appears that the only difference is tracking macros

Absolutely, that is the only difference. Many argue its not a clean bulk unless its only slightly above your maintenance, 300 cals or so, and monitored. Keeping track of staying exactly, or even remotely, around 300 calories above maintenance is next to impossible and counter productive in the active life of a person who enjoys variety in day to day activities and food consumption. Eating untill full, eating clean food exsluively, and lifting hard when at the gym has brought me great results without having to sacrifice all the things that need sacrificing when you're counting cals.

[Palibrah]

Obv its difficult to pinpoint something as complicated as your metabolism, but you can get close through trial and error. What is worse. Getting close to optimal? or saying fck it and causing lots of problems down the line again by going potato? (Excess blubber).

As for point 3, if you want great things in life like an awesome physique you have to make sacrifices. Thats why in general we respect ppl a little more if their in shape, cos we know theyve made sacrifices to get there

[ace_gauntlit]

That's easy for him to say when taking celltech + godlike genetics.

inb4 ban

[PrimeraRS]

I don't really understand the difference between what you're doing and "lean bulking"

It appears that the only difference is tracking macros

This guy is a troll, just enjoy his threads

[Muzzlrpress]

I'm on a see food diet, fuk counting calories.

[tricepwarrior]

inb4 ban

wot

[arn710]

Absolutely, that is the only difference. Many argue its not a clean bulk unless its only slightly above your maintenance, 300 cals or so, and monitored. Keeping track of staying exactly, or even remotely, around 300 calories above maintenance is next to impossible and counter productive in the active life of a person who enjoys variety in day to day activities and food consumption. Eating untill full, eating clean food exsluively, and lifting hard when at the gym has brought me great results without having to sacrifice all the things that need sacrificing when you are watching calories closely.

I don't really see watching calories as a sacrifice though. I actually like it. I don't find it restrictive at all. I guesstimate my food when I eat out and that's good enough. Anyone that has been counting calories and weighing food for a while can easily give a decent estimate of how many calories are in a meal.

I'm glad eating until full works for you, but some of us don't have that luxury. I would easily put down 5-7k cals a day if I ate that way

[k1ckstand]

Absolutely, that is the only difference. Many argue its not a clean bulk unless its only slightly above your maintenance, 300 cals or so, and monitored. Keeping track of staying exactly, or even remotely, around 300 calories above maintenance is next to impossible and counter productive in the active life of a person who enjoys variety in day to day activities and food consumption. Eating untill full, eating clean food exsluively, and lifting hard when at the gym has brought me great results without having to sacrifice all the things that need sacrificing when you're counting cals.

I think you are overestimating how hard and time consuming it is to count your macros. Even if you only do it for 5 or 6 days per week you will still make progress. Even if you eat out, it's not that hard to guess if you've been tracking for a while and have some experience.

[thewiz8807]

You know how I know youre wrong.. Been teching for years.. I am now at my lowest weight/bf with my highest lbm.. It did take time.. It is a marathon .. Not a sprint. I can only assume next year I will weigh a little bit more .. I'm good with that.

fixT brah

[TXBuddy]

Or just carb cycle. you can loosen up on your diet, but still try to hit your appropriate carb count. For me, I can get away with being less strict with little detriment.

[overMotivated]

I don't really see watching calories as a sacrifice though. I actually like it. I don't find it restrictive at all. I guesstimate my food when I eat out and that's good enough. Anyone that has been counting calories and weighing food for a while can easily give a decent estimate of how many calories are in a meal.

I'm glad eating until full works for you, but some of us don't have that luxury. I would easily put down 5-7k cals a day if I ate that way

The issue with "guesstimating" is you no longer are on what is guaranteed to be a clean bulk. If you want to achieve, by forum standards, what is considered a clean bulk with ZERO excess fat gain, you should maintain a calorie surplus of about 300-500 depending on your metabolism.

As soon as you start eyeballing, the point is moot. One day you might have undereaten thanks to under-eyeballing, one day you might have overeaten. Some weeks you might have over-eaten by a lot, when you add up the estimation errors over the course of a week. What happens to the excess? Fat.


much like one of the above posters said

most of us cannot lean bulk properly. 300-500 calories would mean the difference between saying yes or no to the one snack we would run into during the day.

this holds true. A small deviation in food intake can be as large as 300-500 calories of impact on your body. Eye balling is something I approve of. Counting calories on a bulk to keep it "as lean as possible", not so much.

[j.w.13]

why do you need exact numbers to lean bulk? shoot to gain .5 lb per week and you're lean bulking somewhere around a 250 cal surplus. adjust if you're off. i agree it's better to not drive yourself crazy if you're not competing.

[overMotivated]

I think you are overestimating how hard and time consuming it is to count your macros. Even if you only do it for 5 or 6 days per week you will still make progress. Even if you eat out, it's not that hard to guess if you've been tracking for a while and have some experience.

lol guesstimating what was put in the food when you ate out is exactly the bro-science I am so strongly against. You do NOT even nearly know what it is you ate, what kind of oil it was cooked on, or how much butter went into the mash potatoes in the restaurant.

nothing is worse than people claiming to be on a "clean bulk" by estimating. That is no longer a clean bulk. Its just a bulk. A clean bulk requires extensive counting, and keeping tabs of every single thing eaten. MUCH like a cut.

Now, dont get me wrong. I have nothing against estimating - its actually my approach to bulking as well and I fully support it. It's important to keep in mind that this is NOT a clean bulk though, one that so many try to advocate. A clean, truly clean bulk, takes considerably more effort and energy - and mental durability to stick to for long periods of time. This is why I find it to be a poor approach.

Or just carb cycle. you can loosen up on your diet, but still try to hit your appropriate carb count. For me, I can get away with being less strict with little detriment.

aware me on carb cycling?

[Misctake7]

Who would have thought somebody on the misc actually knows a bit or two about lifting and dieting.

[ClamBurger]

so true

would rep you IRL

























































*******

[arn710]

Or just carb cycle. you can loosen up on your diet, but still try to hit your appropriate carb count. For me, I can get away with being less strict with little detriment.

This works well for me too

The issue with "guesstimating" is you no longer are on what is guaranteed to be a clean bulk. If you want to achieve, by forum standards, what is considered a clean bulk with ZERO excess fat gain, you should maintain a calorie surplus of about 300-500 depending on your metabolism.

As soon as you start eyeballing, the point is moot. One day you might have undereaten thanks to under-eyeballing, one day you might have overeaten. Some weeks you might have over-eaten by a lot, when you add up the estimation errors over the course of a week. What happens to the excess? Fat.

We're not talking about contest prepping pro bodybuilders here bud

The difference in a few hundred calories week to week is not going to make a difference in someone's physique

This really isn't as arduous as you're making it out to be. Count your cals, track your weight and take weekly pictures of your physique, adjust your calories accordingly. Its simple really