Question about nutrition, exercise, constructive feedback..

[tri37]

Hi,
I'm looking for constructive feedback. Current stats: 5ft 2, weight 98, bf 18.

My exercise regime is this:
4 days per week swim 45-60 min
2-3 days bike one hour, occasional long bike 1-2 times a month (50-100 miles),
Run 3x per week (60-90 minutes)

Recently added four days of weight lifting ( phul) program.

Current calories 1600-1800, unless I do a long bike, then I eat way extra and don't bother counting.

I've put on 3 pounds the last month, from 95-98.

My goal is to build muscle, look healthy and fit and defined. And above all, I love sports and to be healthy to compete both mind and body. Been eating between 16-1800 consistently since the beg of August.

I get 100-150 grams of protein, usually around 40-50 fat, and the rest carbs. I generally eat whole foods, milk, cottage cheese, protein shakes, almonds, fruit, etc.

Just wondering what those with more experience think? I'm willing to take good/bad feedback as I want to do this right. Recently recovering from eating disorder, so please just don't me not to count cal or macros, cause I do it or else I likely wouldn't eat enough..as I plan my meals due to being so busy.

Thank again

[shesprints]

You still need professional help. That activity level is extreme and appears compulsive, and you need far more calories to sustain it. Are you seeing a registered dietitian and a therapist? Do you have a treatment team? How recently recovered are you?

You are doing between TEN and TWELVE hours of cardio a week on average--are you training for an Iron Man? That is excessive for almost anyone. Your activity factor is thus at least 2 x RMR, so you need at least 2400 calories per day, possibly more. But why in the world are you doing so much cardio?

You seem to misunderstand your macro needs, as well. You require only 60-80g of protein a day and are likely very low on carbs, which can do a number on performance (and mood, and thyroid function).

Please get help.

[viccles007]

Agree with the post above.

[megdaig]

I didn't do that much cardio when training for my ironman. That is quite a lot and you should be eating WAY more than 1800. There is absolutely no way that you gained 3# of anything other than maybe water over that time frame.

If you are wanting to gain muscle you really must reduce the cardio to 2 to 3 days a week and put all your efforts into lifting and eating to gain 2# per month.

Any reason for so much cardio?

[tri37]

Thank you for the advice and response..

You still need professional help. That activity level is extreme and appears compulsive, and you need far more calories to sustain it. Are you seeing a registered dietitian and a therapist? Do you have a treatment team? How recently recovered are you?

I'm not seeing a therapist, for a couple reasons. No one in my city is specialized or knows much, and I work 10-12 hour days, during bz hours, so my schedule don't allow the flexibility after hours. I searched a while back.

Over the past 20 years, I seem multiple therapists, dietician in the past, and while it was helpful somewhat, I didn't get a lot from it at the time. The inly way I would go to one now us if they specialized in Ed's and sports, but I cannot find one in my city.

Years of therapy helped, but I relapsed a couple years ago due to extreme stress and got down to 8x pounds and have gradually took steps to regain health, pretty resilient after all these years. My worst wS 68 pounds and I will never go there again. I have a lot of strength and determination to get/stay better and know my triggers. I would say I'm about 6 weeks into recovery with no Ed behaviors. Unless not eating enough right now counts, but I thought I was.


You are doing between TEN and TWELVE hours of cardio a week on average--are you training for an Iron Man? That is excessive for almost anyone. Your activity factor is thus at least 2 x RMR, so you need at least 2400 calories per day, possibly more. But why in the world are you doing so much cardio?

I am training for an iron man. Doing a half here in a couple weeks, after that I plan on lowering the cardio into maintenance and then bumping it back up to get ready for the ironman.

You seem to misunderstand your macro needs, as well. You require only 60-80g of protein a day and are likely very low on carbs, which can do a number on performance (and mood, and thyroid function).

I tend to focus on "getting enough protein" I think and lack carbs.
I did see a dr before recovery, what he told me after testing my rmr was to add "400 calories per hour of exercise" I burn about 600-700 a day in exercise. My rmr is around 1100 calories.

Recently I have felt pudgy , water loaded, and heavy. I'm hoping this goes away. It's quite different feeling full all the time and heavy verses the way I used too. And I'm hoping to add muscle.
Please get help.

[tri37]

She's prints- I think I messed up on my reply, tried to respond to each section

[tri37]

I didn't do that much cardio when training for my ironman. That is quite a lot and you should be eating WAY more than 1800. There is absolutely no way that you gained 3# of anything other than maybe water over that time frame.

If you are wanting to gain muscle you really must reduce the cardio to 2 to 3 days a week and put all your efforts into lifting and eating to gain 2# per month.

Any reason for so much cardio?

Hi, yea, I do cardio do to doing triathlons and doing a half ironman in a few weeks. I love triathlons, but I want to be fit and strong instead of too thin.
The weight gain kind if throws me off thinking that I'm eating too much , then I second guess myself and calorie consumption.

[shesprints]

It's no problem, I understood your post anyway.

When I was not eating enough carbs and was eating too much protein, I felt 'heavy' and 'slow' too--because the protein filled my stomach but was not easily accessed fuel like carbs are. The achy tired feeling goes away when I eat adequate carbohydrate to suit my training. The rough part about undereating is that it can make us feel like we are unfit or 'fat', but really we are TIRED and UNDERFUELED.

ETA--> btw, weight gain like you saw may be the result of inflammation from overtraining, rather than calorie consumption above maintenance.

But truly, it seems like you should maybe focus on your ED recovery and maybe muscle gain, and put triathlons aside for a bit. Are you already signed up for the Ironman or could you potentially step back after the half? I understand loving a sport (I love to run!). But I myself set aside distance running when it became too rough on me and made me relapse into restrictive eating (I was anorexic for a number of years myself). I say this not because I want to keep you from doing something you love, but because your potential for injury is HIGH right now. Training underfueled, overeating protein but undereating carbs and perhaps fats, can lead to things like stress fractures and endocrine system dysfunction. I speak from experience, as following a similar diet and even less training than you do led me into two consecutive stress fractures, a thyroid dysfunction, and persistent amenorrhea.

It's really too bad you can't find a good RD where you are. Mine works with clients long-distance via Skype and she is EXCELLENT, at the top of her field. Her name is Lauren Antonucci (nutritionenergy.com) and she has worked with many former eating disordered clients AND triathletes. Might be worth checking out.

[tri37]

It's no problem, I understood your post anyway.

When I was not eating enough carbs and was eating too much protein, I felt 'heavy' and 'slow' too--because the protein filled my stomach but was not easily accessed fuel like carbs are. The achy tired feeling goes away when I eat adequate carbohydrate to suit my training. The rough part about undereating is that it can make us feel like we are unfit or 'fat', but really we are TIRED and UNDERFUELED.

ETA--> btw, weight gain like you saw may be the result of inflammation from overtraining, rather than calorie consumption above maintenance.

But truly, it seems like you should maybe focus on your ED recovery and maybe muscle gain, and put triathlons aside for a bit. Are you already signed up for the Ironman or could you potentially step back after the half? I understand loving a sport (I love to run!). But I myself set aside distance running when it became too rough on me and made me relapse into restrictive eating (I was anorexic for a number of years myself). I say this not because I want to keep you from doing something you love, but because your potential for injury is HIGH right now. Training underfueled, overeating protein but undereating carbs and perhaps fats, can lead to things like stress fractures and endocrine system dysfunction. I speak from experience, as following a similar diet and even less training than you do led me into two consecutive stress fractures, a thyroid dysfunction, and persistent amenorrhea.

It's really too bad you can't find a good RD where you are. Mine works with clients long-distance via Skype and she is EXCELLENT, at the top of her field. Her name is Lauren Antonucci (nutritionenergy.com) and she has worked with many former eating disordered clients AND triathletes. Might be worth checking out.

Thank you for that, that helps a lot. That's exactly how I felt yesterday and today and after looking at my protein intake, I was wondering why I felt so awful. I will definitely lower the protein and focus on getting more carbs in.

I have paid $ for my half iron already and have my heart set in it, at the same time I'm anxious to stop training so much cardio and focus on weights and a little cardio as megdaig and you suggested. I will work on upping the calories a couple hundred to start with and I think I will also search more and make time to see a nutritionist. I know there is one about am hour and 15 minutes away from me where I did my rmr testing, they specialize in sports and research. I think in the long run it would help me stay on track also even if I go once a month or could do it over phone; as I know there will be days when I will be tempted to want to loose weight when I don't need to. I'm really trying to pay attention to what's the healthy mind say and not listen to the unhealthy thinking.

And yea, sports are healthy but can be a trigger too, trying to find that balance.

[oregonchick76]

I'm sure you know that at your stats you are underweight, and your cardio is excessive. You truly don't need that amount of cardio to maintain a healthy weight or a healthy body.

I am no help on ED recovery, but you need to back off. Your macros look fine (I'd probably eat more fat though) but you need to eat enough calories to gain 1-2 lbs per month consistently and focus your energy on lifting. Any gain you've seen in the past month on 1600-1800 calories is probably water weight, as there is no way you'd gain weight at your current exercise volume.

But a successful program wouldn't have you lifting more than 4 times per week for about an hour. Beyond that, you only need light cardio if it *feels* good. If you LOVE biking, running and swimming, I'd do a couple sessions per week. Like ONE session of biking and ONE session of swimming.

[tri37]

Oregonchick76,

At this point, yea, I feel like I'm over exercising. And thinking about it "when I'm worried about missing a second workout" is a sign of compulsion and I don't want to be like that. For example I ran an hour this morning, then biked an hour tonight. I did not enjoy biking, but felt " I had too" or I would lose the cardiovascular benefit if biking and do poor in my race. Reading peoples responses really helps me put things into perspective, do thank you.

Cutting cardio back seems do appealing as I feel worn out. I'm gonna cut down a bit this week and next to taper for my race, so this will be kind of a test run, then after, I think I will go just the minimum cardio to maintain the practice in the sports ((I .e, no double workouts, and lowering the days and times ), this seems totally doable, but scary at the same time.


I want to gain weight, to be at 104 atleast, but want to be comfortable and do it the right way. I've always hated weight lifting till recently, I found out I really enjoy it, so looking forward to how it can help in so many ways.
Your probably right on with the weight, it's hard though.

Thank you, I appreciate the input a lot.

[sonti]

When you posted over a week ago, some very experienced women pointed out that your thoughts/actions regarding exercise were clearly still in eatind disorder territory. You got pretty upset at them.

Thoughts?

Anyone who trains that much and eats that little is almost certainly suffering from an eating disorder. Yes, every person who I'd that way, claims it is just a love of exercise. That doesn't change the severe undereating aspect. You are setting yourself up for serious health damage, if not already. And for those of who have trained a long time can recognize it pretty quick.

As I have said before, all the meal plans and questions and training modifications (or talking about it) doesn't change the fundamental illness in ones head. Girls with EDs *love* to talk about/change plans. Distraction from the real issue. Like the girl who pushes food around the plate to make it look like she ate

You aren't in recovery - I wish you luck, because this is a path to cardiac arrest if you don't get help. I am sure my post will upset you, that's fine. Still needs to be said.

[megdaig]

You definitely want to go into your race a bit heavier. Plus, fat helps you float better . I did my first half-iron in the middle of contest prep and it became difficult to maintain balance in the water because I didn't have the extra bouyancy help.

You are going to have to eat a lot on the course to keep up with energy demand. And you need to be practicing race day nutrition during all of your long training sessions or you won't get it right during the race and you'll bonk. I had timers set for every 15 minutes to indicate when I needed to eat and drink on the bike. It took a lot of conscious effort.

For my half-iron I took in roughly 3600 calories on the course. For the Ironman I had to eat so much that I couldn't put food down on the run so I just drank coke at every aid station. You can expect to lose a good 5 to 10 pounds of water during the race....if that gives you an indication of where you will be...pretty scary.

[shesprints]

Also, if you ever want additional support, this thread in the Nutrition section is full of people who are either recovering from or have recovered from eating disorders. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...42713&page=181

[tri37]

When you posted over a week ago, some very experienced women pointed out that your thoughts/actions regarding exercise were clearly still in eatind disorder territory. You got pretty upset at them.

Thoughts?

Anyone who trains that much and eats that little is almost certainly suffering from an eating disorder. Yes, every person who I'd that way, claims it is just a love of exercise. That doesn't change the severe undereating aspect. You are setting yourself up for serious health damage, if not already. And for those of who have trained a long time can recognize it pretty quick.

As I have said before, all the meal plans and questions and training modifications (or talking about it) doesn't change the fundamental illness in ones head. Girls with EDs *love* to talk about/change plans. Distraction from the real issue. Like the girl who pushes food around the plate to make it look like she ate

You aren't in recovery - I wish you luck, because this is a path to cardiac arrest if you don't get help. I am sure my post will upset you, that's fine. Still needs to be said.

Hi, I'm not upset, I get it. That's why I'm posting here, for feedback and to get healthy. I am way healthier than I used to be, but yea, recovery isn't black or white and I'm just trying to understand and get others advice. When I do the rede calculations I get around a 1700 feedback for calories, and if I do it by stickies, I get 1800-2000. And if I go by what the doc said, I should only eat 400 calories above bmr for each hour if exercise. So that would put me at an average of 1600-1800 a day? The change I am looking for is for the better, to get sufficient calories, but not stuff myself with anything and setting myself up.

Thank you, and I hope I don't come across as mad or argumentative, if I do, I don't mean to be.

[oregonchick76]

Hi, I'm not upset, I get it. That's why I'm posting here, for feedback and to get healthy. I am way healthier than I used to be, but yea, recovery isn't black or white and I'm just trying to understand and get others advice. When I do the rede calculations I get around a 1700 feedback for calories, and if I do it by stickies, I get 1800-2000. And if I go by what the doc said, I should only eat 400 calories above bmr for each hour if exercise. So that would put me at an average of 1600-1800 a day? The change I am looking for is for the better, to get sufficient calories, but not stuff myself with anything and setting myself up.

Thank you, and I hope I don't come across as mad or argumentative, if I do, I don't mean to be.

400 calories over BMR for each hour of exercise doesn't make sense to me. BMR is how many calories you'd burn like, in a coma. Just to get the maintenance calories for a completely sedentary individual, you'd take that BMR and multiply it by 1.2. If you are up and moving around cleaning house, walking the dog, yard work, etc, then the activity factor would be 1.3 or more.

And then yeah, 400 calories per hour of exercise ON TOP OF THAT.

Your BMR is going to be around 1200 calories. Sedentary calories would be around 1450.
Any sort of consistent non-exercise activities like I mentioned above will add 200-400 per day.
You're doing between 1 and 2 hours of exercise per day, right? So you're looking at adding 400-800 to that.

If you were doing a reasonable amount of exercise (not excessive, not more than 5 hrs per week) and had a reasonably active life, I'd say maintenance would be 2000-2200. Since you still need to be gaining weight though, you'd want to be eating at least that much and then play with increasing your intake until you are seeing your weight increase consistently by 1-2 lbs per month.

[tri37]

Want to give a thank you to those that offered advice. Since I posted this, I upped the calories to 2,000, decreased protein (getting between 80-100 now) and increased carbs. The first day my weight went up 4 pounds, I freaked, nut just kept doing it, and now it's back down, so think all the protein and less carbs was throwing things way off.
Plus making me feel do sluggish!

I feel so much better, less bloated, more energy, and don't feel guilty for eating carbs.

So just going to go with this and see how things go. Even skipped 2 cardio workouts this week, and questioned myself on why I felt like I "needed to do it". Rest is good too .

[megdaig]

Want to give a thank you to those that offered advice. Since I posted this, I upped the calories to 2,000, decreased protein (getting between 80-100 now) and increased carbs. The first day my weight went up 4 pounds, I freaked, nut just kept doing it, and now it's back down, so think all the protein and less carbs was throwing things way off.
Plus making me feel do sluggish!

I feel so much better, less bloated, more energy, and don't feel guilty for eating carbs.

So just going to go with this and see how things go. Even skipped 2 cardio workouts this week, and questioned myself on why I felt like I "needed to do it". Rest is good too .

All great to hear. Keep it up and your training should be more productive and may even be able to reduce volume a bit when you have more effective training sessions.

When I trained for Ironman it was quality over quantity.