How to judge if you are a Beginner or intermidiate or Advanced?

[Noobontheblock]

How do you actually judge them? By the amount they can do the Big 3?

because for example, im 116 pound male and only 5ft2, i squat 175lbs and for a 200pound 6ft guy it may be his warmup, but for someone my size its really hard.

So the bigger guy can squat more than a smaller guy(generally speaking) therfore, how do you judge someone is no longer a beginner and such?

[Get-n-fit]

when you don't ask these type of questions.

[Kylehero]

/thread

[ironwill2008]

How do you actually judge them? By the amount they can do the Big 3?

because for example, im 116 pound male and only 5ft2, i squat 175lbs and for a 200pound 6ft guy it may be his warmup, but for someone my size its really hard.

So the bigger guy can squat more than a smaller guy(generally speaking) therfore, how do you judge someone is no longer a beginner and such?

Why does this matter to you?

[AFC96]

Why does this matter to you?

because probably he wants to know which category he is in.

[Get-n-fit]

because probably he wants to know which category he is in.

When he gets some time under his belt he'll learn that this is a stupid question. BB'ing isn't about standing around judging others, it's about what you can do and how you can push yourself further. You compare yourself, against yourself.

[AFC96]

When he gets some time under his belt he'll learn that this is a stupid question. BB'ing isn't about standing around judging others, it's about what you can do and how you can push yourself further. You compare yourself, against yourself.

Insecurity.

[NicktheStick]

Pretty simple here is how to become an expert/advanced lifter:

lurk the boards and misinterpret simple information
Hit a 225lb bench! (BEAST MODE BROOOO!!!)
share misunderstood training information (broscience) and pass it off as your own genius.
try every supplement known to man and spend at least half of your income on aminos!
Make excuses as to why you don't squat (bad knees/back ect) and invest in track pants.
Tell everyone constantly that your natty! (natty 4lyfe brahs!)
Start a youtube advice/training channel

Now call yourself a fitness/bodybuilding/nutrition expert!

[GravityLee]

because for example, im 116 pound male and only 5ft2, i squat 175lbs

[ironwill2008]

because probably he wants to know which category he is in.

A serious, meaningful answer to opie's question can only come from having enough information from which to formulate that answer. I didn't gather enough information from the OP to provide, IMO, a reply that might help him.


Thanks for trying to answer for him though; I'm sure opie appreciates it as well.

[chazzy1864]

Pretty simple here is how to become an expert/advanced lifter:

lurk the boards and misinterpret simple information
Hit a 225lb bench! (BEAST MODE BROOOO!!!)
share misunderstood training information (broscience) and pass it off as your own genius.
try every supplement known to man and spend at least half of your income on aminos!
Make excuses as to why you don't squat (bad knees/back ect) and invest in track pants.
Tell everyone constantly that your natty! (natty 4lyfe brahs!)
Start a youtube advice/training channel

Now call yourself a fitness/bodybuilding/nutrition expert!

^ This about sums it up. You'd do well to start in the teen bodybuilding section to build up a huge fan base with your revolutionary information that you're bringing to the table.

[hanger1989]

Being short is an advantage when your doing squats, so saying a bigger guy should be able to squat more is wrong. If there bigger because they have more muscle mass then yes they should squat more, but not if there just taller.

[TheQuiet]

When he gets some time under his belt he'll learn that this is a stupid question. BB'ing isn't about standing around judging others, it's about what you can do and how you can push yourself further. You compare yourself, against yourself.

I think he was trying to assess where he's at because he's about to transition to a different level.

He didn't explain though...

[TJP33]

I enjoyed reading these and normally I classify by what you know more so than what you can lift or how you look... but don't these programs in the stickies everyone refers to break up the volume applied based on the trainees level?

[ironwill2008]

but don't these programs in the stickies everyone refers to break up the volume applied based on the trainees level?

Yes.

Frequency is, IMO, a more important factor, with appropriate volume being based off of that, and intensity (% of rep-max) being the 3rd leg of the tripod. All three must then be fitted to the trainee's experience level---how far he's already progressed toward his individual genetic limit---if he's to make his most-timely gains.






















It's not about "how long" someone has been "training," and it's not about how much someone can lift. A couple of examples from RL:

Many years ago, I agreed to start training a young, but very genetically-gifted noob (about 5' 10" 185-190). He had broad shoulders, a small waist, and already had decent-looking legs although he'd never lifted a weight in his life. Later in his first week, during his first-ever leg training session, he worked his way up to a couple of deep reps of Squats with three plates.



At the last commercial gym where I held a membership before building my own gym, sometime during my first month training there, I casually said hello to a very average-looking guy at the dumbbell rack who was Curling a pair of 25-pound dumbbells. About two years later, on the last day I trained at that gym, by coincidence, I found myself at the dumbbell rack again, alongside the same guy. He was Curling the same pair of 25-pound 'bells, and looked just the same as he did 2 years prior.




So, out of those two guys, who was the beginner, and who wasn't?

[LadyLore420]

because for example, im 116 pound male and only 5ft2, i squat 175lbs and for a 200pound 6ft guy it may be his warmup, but for someone my size its really hard.

I'm 5'2 and 118lbs and 175lbs on squat IS a warmup.

Your lifts are too tiny to be worrying about where you place. Find a program and ride it out for 3 months, 175 means you've been lifting for a month or you've been lifting stupid.

[LadyLore420]

Rep'd

[LadyLore420]

John Phung is like 5'0" and he's reppin over 500lbs on squat and can press almost 300lbs overhead.



Excuses won't get you gainz OP. John doesn't make excuses, he just lifts hard.

[TJP33]

Yes.

Frequency is, IMO, a more important factor, with appropriate volume being based off of that, and intensity (% of rep-max) being the 3rd leg of the tripod. All three must then be fitted to the trainee's experience level---how far he's already progressed toward his individual genetic limit---if he's to make his most-timely gains.

It's not about "how long" someone has been "training," and it's not about how much someone can lift. A couple of examples from RL:

Many years ago, I agreed to start training a young, but very genetically-gifted noob (about 5' 10" 185-190). He had broad shoulders, a small waist, and already had decent-looking legs although he'd never lifted a weight in his life. Later in his first week, during his first-ever leg training session, he worked his way up to a couple of deep reps of Squats with three plates.

At the last commercial gym where I held a membership before building my own gym, sometime during my first month training there, I casually said hello to a very average-looking guy at the dumbbell rack who was Curling a pair of 25-pound dumbbells. About two years later, on the last day I trained at that gym, by coincidence, I found myself at the dumbbell rack again, alongside the same guy. He was Curling the same pair of 25-pound 'bells, and looked just the same as he did 2 years prior.

So, out of those two guys, who was the beginner, and who wasn't?

I don't see the point your trying to make.. A balance of frequency/volume/and effort put forth- of course I agree with, not sure why stated- unless spotting I only listed volume- its more common approach as those who advance and im lazy didn't wanna type out all 3 and how they work together..

Maybe Im missing something from not reading the various programs, I was curious if they provided a X point where when you reached this point of whatever accomplishment your probably better fitted for such and such level. Just a curiosity thing- Im fine with my definition of a training level being based on knowledge since I don't follow those programs- but for those who do, just as what you look like doesn't prove what you know, what you know doesn't always translate into what you can do- so my definition really wouldn't fit.

[ironwill2008]

I don't see the point your trying to make.. A balance of frequency/volume/and effort put forth- of course I agree with, not sure why stated- unless spotting I only listed volume- its more common approach as those who advance and im lazy didn't wanna type out all 3 and how they work together..

Maybe Im missing something from not reading the various programs, I was curious if they provided a X point where when you reached this point of whatever accomplishment your probably better fitted for such and such level. Just a curiosity thing- Im fine with my definition of a training level being based on knowledge since I don't follow those programs- but for those who do, just as what you look like doesn't prove what you know, what you know doesn't always translate into what you can do- so my definition really wouldn't fit.

Those two RL anecdotes were included for opie's (and any other inexperienced posters) benefit; they weren''t aimed at you. You're obviously far more advanced than most posters here. I simply used your post as a jumping-off point. I'm trying to make people understand that a guy who can lift a lot of weight can still be a beginner, as can a guy who's been "training" for a long time, but so poorly that he's never made any progress.




IMO:

As far as the "What am I" question that pops up all over this site about every five minutes, if I was forced to nail it down, I'll still go back to what I mentioned earlier---it's all about how far the trainee has already come insofar as reaching his genetic limit.

If he's asking in order to figure out an appropriate program/routine for himself, he's no longer a beginner when, after he's exhausted every means possible (multiple resets, deloads, extra 'off' days) to keep progressing at the usually-aggressive rate of any of the established beginner programs, he's then ready to move to an intermediate program.

But to make that move earlier than at such a point, he's going to be giving away some potential, relatively 'quick' gains. It's 'good' to be a 'beginner;' they'll be realizing the best, fastest gains of their training lives.

[devilsrule61287]

Insecurity.

Immaturity


These arbitrary labels are pointless. Beginner vs. intermediate? Call yourself whatever you want to call yourself. Doesn't change how much you lift, how much muscle you have, how you look, etc. This isn't an RPG where you "level up" when you hit a certain number of points. Just put in the work, continue to improve, and thats it.

[BB12s]

I think if you focus more on what you're doing and less on what category you fit within... others will view you in a different way than yourself.

We're forever learning and adjusting for growth both mentally and physically... so, it's more opinion based.

Lift, Eat, Sleep, enjoy the benefits of a health productive life.

[TJP33]

Those two RL anecdotes were included for opie's (and any other inexperienced posters) benefit; they weren''t aimed at you. You're obviously far more advanced than most posters here. I simply used your post as a jumping-off point. I'm trying to make people understand that a guy who can lift a lot of weight can still be a beginner, as can a guy who's been "training" for a long time, but so poorly that he's never made any progress.




IMO:

As far as the "What am I" question that pops up all over this site about every five minutes, if I was forced to nail it down, I'll still go back to what I mentioned earlier---it's all about how far the trainee has already come insofar as reaching his genetic limit.

If he's asking in order to figure out an appropriate program/routine for himself, he's no longer a beginner when, after he's exhausted every means possible (multiple resets, deloads, extra 'off' days) to keep progressing at the usually-aggressive rate of any of the established beginner programs, he's then ready to move to an intermediate program.

But to make that move earlier than at such a point, he's going to be giving away some potential, relatively 'quick' gains. It's 'good' to be a 'beginner;' they'll be realizing the best, fastest gains of their training lives.

Gotcha- I mistook the reason for quoting me.. and curious/hopeful they had a better way than how most of us learned- common sense, a scary phrase to use these days..

[hanger1989]

I'm struggling to believe any noob can squat 3 plates on his 1st leg day, he could be a pro once he gets near his genetic peak.

There are very few people in my gym who I see squatting 3 plates. The most I've done is 2 and a half, but only for 1 rep.

[kanis999]

You are always one step below what you think you "should" be. Take your best guess OP and then subtract one level.

Most people, imo, will never deserve to be called 'advanced'.

[ironwill2008]

.. and curious/hopeful they had a better way than how most of us learned- common sense, a scary phrase to use these days..

The interweb is both a blessing and a curse for beginners. On the one hand, there is a mountain of excellent advice that will put any noob squarely on the path to near-certain mass and strength if he has the common sense (there's that phrase again) to consider the source of the information first. On the other, there is the mountain of bull**** parroted by people whose resumes consist only of reading Flex for two months in a row and using Jay Cutler's double-split for two weeks, or worse, those with some other agenda altogether, such as selling something or promoting themselves and/or their own website(s).


What I've seen in these forums, particularly in the last two years, is an emphasis being put more on piddling minor details that would only serve someone who's contest-prepping (if they even serve that small population), and away from the tried and true methods and practices that have worked since the days of Sandow, and that will continue to work until the cows come home. Human physiology hasn't taken any giant leaps forward in the last 100 years that I'm aware of.


I find it extremely interesting that the deeper I dig into information concerning training, supplementation, and nutrition, that the more I learn, the more I realize that most of it won't make any real difference at all in the big picture. I also find it sadly true, based on what I see posted in these forums, that that's the stuff into which people increasingly put most of their focus.


IOW, there's no need to worry about myofibrillar vs sarcoplasmic hypertrophy when you can only Squat 95 pounds. There's no point in wasting money on supplements when you don't yet have any idea how many calories you need to eat to be in a surplus, or what the macro breakdown needs to look like. You shouldn't worry about working the inner head of your biceps while you're 5' 10" and still only weigh 125.





This isn't intended to criticize beginners; just to try to open their eyes to the fact that if they'll just train, eat, sleep, and repeat consistently, everything else will take care of itself. When they eventually reach a point where the details will start to matter, by then, they'll know it on their own; nobody will have to tell them.

[NicktheStick]

The interweb is both a blessing and a curse for beginners. On the one hand, there is a mountain of excellent advice that will put any noob squarely on the path to near-certain mass and strength if he has the common sense (there's that phrase again) to consider the source of the information first. On the other, there is the mountain of bull**** parroted by people whose resumes consist only of reading Flex for two months in a row and using Jay Cutler's double-split for two weeks, or worse, those with some other agenda altogether, such as selling something or promoting themselves and/or their own website(s).


What I've seen in these forums, particularly in the last two years, is an emphasis being put more on piddling minor details that would only serve someone who's contest-prepping (if they even serve that small population), and away from the tried and true methods and practices that have worked since the days of Sandow, and that will continue to work until the cows come home. Human physiology hasn't taken any giant leaps forward in the last 100 years that I'm aware of.


I find it extremely interesting that the deeper I dig into information concerning training, supplementation, and nutrition, that the more I learn, the more I realize that most of it won't make any real difference at all in the big picture. I also find it sadly true, based on what I see posted in these forums, that that's the stuff into which people increasingly put most of their focus.


IOW, there's no need to worry about myofibrillar vs sarcoplasmic hypertrophy when you can only Squat 95 pounds. There's no point in wasting money on supplements when you don't yet have any idea how many calories you need to eat to be in a surplus, or what the macro breakdown needs to look like. You shouldn't worry about working the inner head of your biceps while you're 5' 10" and still only weigh 125.





This isn't intended to criticize beginners; just to try to open their eyes to the fact that if they'll just train, eat, sleep, and repeat consistently, everything else will take care of itself. When they eventually reach a point where the details will start to matter, by then, they'll know it on their own; nobody will have to tell them.

[kanis999]

I find it extremely interesting that the deeper I dig into information concerning training, supplementation, and nutrition, that the more I learn, the more I realize that most of it won't make any real difference at all in the big picture.

Amen. Almost everybody I've listened to who has been training for more than 10 years comes to this conclusion. That's why I put the link to the 80/20 thread in my signature.

[TJP33]

The interweb is both a blessing and a curse for beginners. On the one hand, there is a mountain of excellent advice that will put any noob squarely on the path to near-certain mass and strength if he has the common sense (there's that phrase again) to consider the source of the information first. On the other, there is the mountain of bull**** parroted by people whose resumes consist only of reading Flex for two months in a row and using Jay Cutler's double-split for two weeks, or worse, those with some other agenda altogether, such as selling something or promoting themselves and/or their own website(s).


What I've seen in these forums, particularly in the last two years, is an emphasis being put more on piddling minor details that would only serve someone who's contest-prepping (if they even serve that small population), and away from the tried and true methods and practices that have worked since the days of Sandow, and that will continue to work until the cows come home. Human physiology hasn't taken any giant leaps forward in the last 100 years that I'm aware of.


I find it extremely interesting that the deeper I dig into information concerning training, supplementation, and nutrition, that the more I learn, the more I realize that most of it won't make any real difference at all in the big picture. I also find it sadly true, based on what I see posted in these forums, that that's the stuff into which people increasingly put most of their focus.


IOW, there's no need to worry about myofibrillar vs sarcoplasmic hypertrophy when you can only Squat 95 pounds. There's no point in wasting money on supplements when you don't yet have any idea how many calories you need to eat to be in a surplus, or what the macro breakdown needs to look like. You shouldn't worry about working the inner head of your biceps while you're 5' 10" and still only weigh 125.





This isn't intended to criticize beginners; just to try to open their eyes to the fact that if they'll just train, eat, sleep, and repeat consistently, everything else will take care of itself. When they eventually reach a point where the details will start to matter, by then, they'll know it on their own; nobody will have to tell them.

I cant rep, so Ill toast a beer to this post...

[chazzy1864]

I find it extremely interesting that the deeper I dig into information concerning training, supplementation, and nutrition, that the more I learn, the more I realize that most of it won't make any real difference at all in the big picture. I also find it sadly true, based on what I see posted in these forums, that that's the stuff into which people increasingly put most of their focus.

Sad but true. I blame the media and trainers / authors trying to sell stuff. They can't just say "Yo, stick to teh basics and invest time and you'll have success". They have to come up with new and exciting things, so it is all this random crap that means f*ck all in the grand scheme and people cling to it like some magic elixir.