Experienced Ladies - Need your input!

[LatinoMusculito]

I'm helping a female friend get ready for a BBing/physique show that's in 14 weeks. (not exactly which division yet, but she wants to keep her muscle that's for sure - she's not into bikini/figure stuff)

She was already 3 weeks into her prep when we teamed up.

Here's a couple of her stats:

- 5'8 height
- 160 lbs.
- BF%???? I'm gonna say between 22-27% although I really don't know. I figure this is irrelevant at this point so long as we know what she's been eating during her 'off-season' training and stuff.

She is experienced enough in the gym, although of course there is always room for refinement. She has a relatively muscular physique for a woman. Not gonna post pic, but her traps are HUGE. She's already looking like an explicit female bodybuilder, even as a natural.

Anyway here's a critical point to take into consideration when you read what diet changes I've made for her:

She told me she was eating anywhere between 3000-5000 calories and maintaining at 160 lbs, relatively lean considering such a high caloric intake and that she was eating around 200g carbs MAX before beginning her cut. Then, she jumped all the way down to 1500 calories at *sigh* 30g carbs. She got some advice from I don't know who.. some petite girls or something. She stayed at 1500 calories for 3 weeks and obviously lost inches off her waist and what not. But this was not all she lost - she lost 30lbs on her squat. Jumping down to 1500 cals at 30g carb was an obvious mistake, considering she was 17 weeks OUT to start. She was already experiencing dieting crankiness.

So after learning about his, I decided to jump in and help her out.

I told her to bring her calories up to 2400 cals @ 230g carbs.

My logic here is simple: bring her metabolism back up to negate the 3 weeks of the drastic drop in cals, and get her body used to the benefits of training and cutting from a higher carb intake, and start cutting from a reasonable caloric and carb intake.

I figured that, since she said she was eating between 3000-5000 cals @ 200g carbs before cutting, that jumping back up to 2400 calories @ 230g carbs would not be adverse and lead to any dramatic fat gains. The bloating she would experience, feeling fat, and postponement in her fat-loss is a justifiable cost for her initial mistakes.

The first few days of her gradually bringing her cals back up were great. She felt amazing and excited as her strength and energy was coming back. But then, when we got to 240g carbs, she started complaining of too much bloat. Of course, this was bound to happen and I expected it, and I was not worried about it. She said she weighed herself and hit 167 lbs. Again, no worries as far as I'm concerned. That's 7 lbs of intestinal **** storage, water and glycogen. Ain't nothing wrong with that - 14 weeks out. My plan was to have her stay at 2400 cals for 3 weeks. But a couple of days pass and she's still complaining of too much bloat and also stomach pains. She's getting pissed off. She then tells me she's used to eating way less carbs (even during maintenance), and that she's never taken carbs too well. I realize we had some initial miscommunications, so I decide to do some meticulous troubleshooting.

I asked her numerous questions about her food intake before cutting and uncovered some things. Basically, her guesstimation of eating +3000 cals was way off. I calculated that she was eating, at most, about 2300 cals on average. I also discovered, that she ate at MOST about 130g carbs on a generous day. She had told me that she was used to eating extremely high amounts of protein. I calculated that her protein was at a formidable 230g during maintenance, but nowhere near as high as she thought she was. Of course, these numbers are vague representations of her diet before, but at least we have something more accurate to work with.

I made some calculations and decided on the following:

2300 cals @ 180c/230p/70f - already it seems to be a good move. She says her stomach issues are gone, and her strength is still up.

-Keep cals at 2300 for 2.5 weeks (first .5 weeks was at 2400 cals already). At 2300 she's actually eating at her previous maintenance calories. So really, at this point, it's just to get her metabolism back to a more favorable rate.
-Bring her carbs to 180g carbs. Why? Same reasons as before - still higher than she's used to, so that she can get accustomed and benefit from more carbs, but less than 230g which was obviously too dramatic for her system. Should keep her fat gains down, and increase chance of muscle/strength gains over the remaining 2.5 weeks. Ignore water puffiness for now.
-Protein at 230g, fat at 70g, which are close to her maintenance numbers from before - no detriment to her system.

After 3 weeks we'll probably bump her cals down by 500 cals to 1800. She will then have 11 weeks left from that point. We'll then bump down her cals by 200-300 cals every 3-4 weeks, depending on how steadily she tightens up. At this rate, if we bump down her cals every 3 weeks, by the time she is 2 weeks out, she will be at 1400 cals, which for a woman of her size and stature will be pretty damn low. I'm inclined to think that she should never go that low, so we will see how the progress goes week to week.

Those last two weeks will probably be a combination of carb cycling and then obviously water manipulation. By the time we get there, we will be doing some more research and preparations.

Anyway, for any chicks here that have lots of experience getting impressively cut and even better - BBing/physique experience - please let me know your opinion and if my approach is sound enough. This will be her first show, and her understanding of proper dieting is not up to par with her goals and muscular development yet. But it will improve. This will be a great learning experience for her, and she's doing it for just that - experience. Her goal is not to win, but just to challenge herself and improve from where she's been. I'm helping her for fun and because I'm bored - and because I've got some good experience getting cut myself. Never competed though.

I think that with the help of my methodologies, she will get in great shape, and in better shape than she's ever been. Will it be top notch in relation to her competition? Maybe not. But, she will improve, and henceforth, she will know her body better, and by the next time she want to compete, she will be in a much better position to go above and beyond herself.

[kimm4]

3 things:

Even though 1500 calories is a bit too low to start, it didn't do anything to her metabolism in 3 weeks. There's no reason for her to be back up at maintenance.

A much longer diet will be needed to get stage lean. She won't be ready, not even close.

If you don't have any experience in contest prep, you shouldn't be prepping anyone for the stage period.

[LatinoMusculito]

Any other recommendations other than I should not be prepping for anyone period?

If starting at 1500 was a bit low at 30g carb, what is a good approach in making the situation more favorable?

[rockangel]

Any other recommendations other than I should not be prepping for anyone period?

If starting at 1500 was a bit low at 30g carb, what is a good approach in making the situation more favorable?

You dont know what you are doing and it is too complex to explain, which is why people with experience in prepping clients like kimm4 get paid to do what they do.

Even as a CPT and researching it as much as I do, I am still not in Kimm's league and you are in no way close either.


A good approach is if you want to begin prepping people, find a mentor to learn from and for this person to hire some one who is experienced before you cause her serious harm...

[LatinoMusculito]

Hmm.. good points. And you're right... I'm not knowledgeable enough. I just knew what I would be doing if I wanted to get cut in a practical way.. but competition is another thing altogether, isn't it?

I'll ask her if she wants to pay for someone to coach her. But if she's not into it.. I'm still gonna help. I'll definitely back off around the time she actually is getting close to the stage when she has to start doing odd things though. She'll have to be willing to pay for coaching on the finishing touches.

[rockangel]

Hmm.. good points. And you're right... I'm not knowledgeable enough. I just knew what I would be doing if I wanted to get cut in a practical way.. but competition is another thing altogether, isn't it?

I'll ask her if she wants to pay for someone to coach her. But if she's not into it.. I'm still gonna help. I'll definitely back off around the time she actually is getting close to the stage when she has to start doing odd things though. She'll have to be willing to pay for coaching on the finishing touches.

Its likely that there will be coaches who may not want to take her on or at least not for this show if you follow this plan. You do not know the proper dieting protocols. Just because "it worked for you" does not mean that it will work for a woman with differing hormonal profiles and differing nutritional needs than you.

If she doesnt want to pay someone, thats fine. But having a bad inexperienced coach that is free is not doing her any favors and she should either wait until she can pay or wait until she has the knowledge to do it herself.

You are helping her because you are bored....find another hobby in which the stakes are not someone ones health.

[LatinoMusculito]

Well, we are not interested in those hypothetical coaches which won't take her on, are we?

You've made your point. But as far as I see it, she is already in a better position than she was when she started.

[LatinoMusculito]

Ever considered transitioning into healthcare?

[megdaig]

Her protein is unnecessarily high. 150g minimum should be sufficient to start.

Anywho...

As Kimm said, she won't be ready in 14 weeks. Not knowing what she looks like...but if she were mid twenties BF she'll need to come in around 135# and assuming 1 pound per week fat loss that's 25 weeks...almost double the time that she has available.