What are nine year olds doing at a shooting range?

[dbx]

I realise this will have some passionate views from both sides, but I cannot understand why any child needs to be introduced to a firearm at such a young age.

Surely they can't own a gun of their own, so what is the purpose? Protection in later life? How does that work?

Does it just form an early viewpoint that such weapons are a normal way of life?

I'm not trying to argue against the pro-gun enthusiasts, i'm just interested to hear a viewpoint from all parties.

Firstly, you live and were raised in a different culture (GB, handgun laws, etc..). While likely innocent, your opening post is full of "loaded" questions.

Simply put; I, like many others here in the U.S., was introduced to firearms at a very early age. My father worked for the Fish & Wildlife Services in the 60's, and was an avid gun collector. As far as safety? It's all about the "introduction, respect and overseeing" of any person introduced to them.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of idiots in this world ($hitty, degenerate parents), and what's cool for many....ends up... fckd up for others. The gene pool around the globe seems to keep watering down, but that shouldn't make us change given "rights" for everyone else. If Big Brother decides it's necessary to take away rights for all, just because of the few, then....I'd suggest it's time that "society" get back to being involved with their fellow fan/neighbor/family....and kick the **** out of the retards who fck it up for everyone else. In other words, that whole....."personal responsibility" thing....that seems to be a cliche these day

[GKC45]

Are you really likening taking a 9 year old to a range to shoot a gun to travelling with your children in a car or taking them swimming. I've heard a lot of stupid arguments in my time but this one...

FYI I have no issue with guns in fact I like to shoot, and would happily introduce my children to it at some point but definitely not while travelling to the swimming pool in a motorised vehicle as that would be down right crazy!

Yes, I am. More kids die in car accidents and drownings then accidental shootings at the gun range.

I don't know about GB, but I see tons of idiot parents texting and driving, looking at their phones at the pool instead of their kids, etc. That sounds much more dangerous than a carefully supervised child at a range. Antigun folks LOVE to take an isolated incident and generalize it.

[GKC45]

Learning how to shoot at 9 years old is one thing. Learning how to shoot a fully automatic uzi is completely retarded in my opinion. Not only is that instructor dead (RIP) but that girl will be scarred for life now.

I agree with this 100%.

[acrawlingchaos]

You keep stating this. Why? Muzzle climb is real. This has happened twice in the last 6 years. The first time a kid died, this time the instructor.

The first time I shot an uzi at 21, I was startled by the muzzle climb and rate of fire. If for some inane reason, I let a 9 year old girl shoot it, the first several times she did so, my hands would be on the weapon and in control.

[21infantry]

Actually it seems people have problems with the weapon selection, I do not, what I do have a problem with in this situation is the laziness of the instructor on this weapon system. You could of fired this weapon with no problem in a safe and controlled matter, Instead he choose to let the child shoot it willy nilly.

[Phattso]

The first time I shot an uzi at 21, I was startled by the muzzle climb and rate of fire. If for some inane reason, I let a 9 year old girl shoot it, the first several times she did so, my hands would be on the weapon and in control.

I was going to post something similar. I have not shot an Uzi, but I have seen grown men shoot them and on full-auto, they are almost uncontrollable - I mean like ACC said, "muzzle climb."

I was taught the basics of shooting under 10 years old, but to have a little girl shoot an Uzi on full auto, is negligent. Heart goes out to his family and her family.

[InternetTuffGuy]

The problem here is that a UZI is as easy to control as a phucking .22

It doesn't matter how easy the weapon is to handle if put into the hands of someone not able to operate it safely. I have no experience with this type of weapon so I couldn't comment further. What I can say is that I have a 9 year old and I know there are certain guns he is okay with and some that he is not. It's up to me as the parent to know the skill level of my son and give him nothing he's not ready for.

[beachguy498]

Actually it seems people have problems with the weapon selection, I do not, what I do have a problem with in this situation is the laziness of the instructor on this weapon system. You could of fired this weapon with no problem in a safe and controlled matter, Instead he choose to let the child shoot it willy nilly.

I see it as a total disrespect for the power of the firearm by all parties. This is what you learn in the progression I mentioned earlier and it goes with what the child can grasp along the way in age and the escalation of the weapon.

That range... if you can call it that. Nothing at all safe about that, no firing line, nothing. So the owners of that... no respect for the gun. The parent, one look at the set up from me would have been a flat "no" to my kids. Last but not least, I doubt the girl had any previous gun experience and sure as hell no real instruction.

[Ikeman83]

This thread is a repost, as there was a 19-page long thread about this last night/this morning.

The problem here is that a UZI is as easy to control as a phucking .22

If you know how to hold the weapon, understand trigger control, and have a proper stance, yes. If you're a child and you are not holding the weapon with anything resembling positive control, and you mash down on the trigger with a full mag inserted, you're going to experience significant muzzle flip/climb and lose control, which is exactly what happened.


Can you teach a 9 y/o to shoot an UZI on full auto? Sure. I don't know why you would, as it would almost certainly be less fun than giving her a semi-auto that she could actually hit something with, but you could.

-Stand behind the kid instead of next to her.
-Use your hand that is the same as her trigger hand to hold her trigger shoulder to control her body.
-Use your hand that is the same as her support hand to positively grab the forearm/handguard of the weapon. (If you've seen the video, he's got his hand under the magazine like he's cupping the weapon's balls so that the girl doesn't have to hold up the gun, but has no control over the weapon himself)
-Only load a couple of rounds into the magazine at a time while she learns trigger control.

[GreenWave1]

Actually it seems people have problems with the weapon selection, I do not, what I do have a problem with in this situation is the laziness of the instructor on this weapon system. You could of fired this weapon with no problem in a safe and controlled matter, Instead he choose to let the child shoot it willy nilly.

I agree that it could have been done in a safe manner. But to say that it's as easy to fire a 22 as it is to fire an Uzi on full auto is nonsense. That girl had plenty of strength to control a .22. Not the case with the Uzi.

It's like saying she can ride a bike on the street so she should be able to ride a Ninja on the highway.

[Brackneyc]

My kids have shot every weapon I own. All done under close supervision, and in a manner consistent with their age and skill level. No more dangerous than most activities imo, if the adult in charge has the ability to think 10 seconds into the future.

[bodyhard]

That instructor was a f'cking idiot.

[latebloomingmom]

maybe it depends on where you are raised ...I think you can take Hunter's Safety up here at age of 8
man my boys got their first jack knives at age five from grandpa and were given the same speech about being responsible with it
one carved up side of dresser and one his book case and mama confiscated them until they were older
each of my boys had bb guns and targets and bows and hunting rifles
pretty common around here

[Simpske]

This is why I shoot at an indoor range with built up partitions and automated targets. No one ever down range and I'm not worrying about the person in the next booth.

[sy2502]

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/26/us...ting-accident/

I realise this will have some passionate views from both sides, but I cannot understand why any child needs to be introduced to a firearm at such a young age.

Surely they can't own a gun of their own, so what is the purpose? Protection in later life? How does that work?

Does it just form an early viewpoint that such weapons are a normal way of life?

I'm not trying to argue against the pro-gun enthusiasts, i'm just interested to hear a viewpoint from all parties.

RIP to the instructor and thoughts with his friends and family.

Are you really likening taking a 9 year old to a range to shoot a gun to travelling with your children in a car or taking them swimming. I've heard a lot of stupid arguments in my time but this one...

FYI I have no issue with guns in fact I like to shoot, and would happily introduce my children to it at some point but definitely not while travelling to the swimming pool in a motorised vehicle as that would be down right crazy!

Location: United Kingdom

It figures.

[mslman71]

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/26/us...ting-accident/

I realise this will have some passionate views from both sides, but I cannot understand why any child needs to be introduced to a firearm at such a young age.

Surely they can't own a gun of their own, so what is the purpose? Protection in later life? How does that work?

Does it just form an early viewpoint that such weapons are a normal way of life?

I'm not trying to argue against the pro-gun enthusiasts, i'm just interested to hear a viewpoint from all parties.

RIP to the instructor and thoughts with his friends and family.

I think it's a tad disingenuous to use an obvious outlier as motivation for having the discussion as to whether or not it's warranted at a young or any other arbitrary age. Just like with archery, skiing, skating, riding a bicycle, horseback riding, or any other activity there are cases where the adult could (and has) put the child in a situation that resulted in serious injury or death, even if nothing more than through attention neglect. So, is the question really about whether or not you understand being at a range firing a weapon at that or any age, or with the decision to allow a presumably completely inexperienced kid shoot a fully automatic weapon without proper supervision?

[dazlittle]

This could go round in circles forever, yes location = United Kingdom but I'm sure no one in their right mind would say what that instructor did and what that child's parents allowed is in no way sensible, good parenting or even normal!!

I'll qualify this statement yet again by saying I'm pro gun.

[dazlittle]

Yes, I am. More kids die in car accidents and drownings then accidental shootings at the gun range.

I don't know about GB, but I see tons of idiot parents texting and driving, looking at their phones at the pool instead of their kids, etc. That sounds much more dangerous than a carefully supervised child at a range. Antigun folks LOVE to take an isolated incident and generalize it.

Agreed on the idiot parents statement, seems they are found the world over.

[sy2502]

This could go round in circles forever, yes location = United Kingdom but I'm sure no one in their right mind would say what that instructor did and what that child's parents allowed is in no way sensible, good parenting or even normal!!

I'll qualify this statement yet again by saying I'm pro gun.

You can't judge another culture through the glasses of your own culture. Yours isn't the best culture in the world, it's just one of the many. The way things are done in the UK isn't, nor should it be, the standard by which all other cultures should be judged. So get off the high horse and stop insulting people only because they do things differently from you.

[ridefattires]

Age is not an issue here , the weapon is not an issue here. if it was truly an Uzi they are strictly fully automatic if I remember correctly. Still not an issue. Her parents did nothing wrong. They took her to a professional range with what I would assume to be a trained instructor. I'm sure they assumed the same. He is dead because he allowed himself to be killed on accident. He was in charge giving the instruction.

Let us not forget a govt agent (highly trained) who shot himself in the foot because he was the only one in the room qualified to demonstrate a glock 40 cal.

It is tragic that he lost his life but that girl followed his every instruction including the one that killed him. I feel for her.

[ridefattires]

This could go round in circles forever, yes location = United Kingdom but I'm sure no one in their right mind would say what that instructor did and what that child's parents allowed is in no way sensible, good parenting or even normal!!

I'll qualify this statement yet again by saying I'm pro gun.

What parent in their right mind would let a child run as fast as they could into another child who was carrying a leather air bag. What the hell was the coach thinking not to mention the parents!

How old do they start playing rugby across the pond?

Glad to hear your pro gun. Not sure what that means though. Had two people killed with framing hammers in a six months where I'm at. And I'm all for hammers they help me build stuff.

I don't think the problem is with your like or dislike of firearms. It's how you express how foolish and or irresponsible the girls parents were.

[dazlittle]

Location: United Kingdom

It figures.

You can't judge another culture through the glasses of your own culture.

Thanks for your contradicting words of wisdom.

What parent in their right mind would let a child run as fast as they could into another child who was carrying a leather air bag. What the hell was the coach thinking not to mention the parents!

How old do they start playing rugby across the pond?

Glad to hear your pro gun. Not sure what that means though. Had two people killed with framing hammers in a six months where I'm at. And I'm all for hammers they help me build stuff.

I don't think the problem is with your like or dislike of firearms. It's how you express how foolish and or irresponsible the girls parents were.

Rugby and guns are not similar in any way, I don't think I've ever heard of a rugby instructor/coach being killed by a 9 year old he is training, and they generally play touch rugby at such a young age.

and yes the parents were idiots, along with the instructor. That is my opinion.

I'm out.

[beachguy498]

Age is not an issue here , the weapon is not an issue here. if it was truly an Uzi they are strictly fully automatic if I remember correctly. Still not an issue. Her parents did nothing wrong. They took her to a professional range with what I would assume to be a trained instructor. I'm sure they assumed the same. He is dead because he allowed himself to be killed on accident. He was in charge giving the instruction.

Let us not forget a govt agent (highly trained) who shot himself in the foot because he was the only one in the room qualified to demonstrate a glock 40 cal.

It is tragic that he lost his life but that girl followed his every instruction including the one that killed him. I feel for her.

Professional range and trained instructor??? My rectal port... Did you see pictures of that so-callled range? There was not one safety feature that I could see.
I highly doubt the instructor was any sort of professional, just someone working for wages who knew no better, otherwise he wouldn't have been there.

And you cannot buy any full-automatic gun in the private sector in the US. I know they can't be sold, but a range may be able to have one there? I was at a real outdoor range once and there were a few guys down at the end with an AR15 they brought in. Nobody paid them any attention until they let loose a fully automatic burst, everyone else stopped and looked and the instructor hustled them out quickly.

[Simpske]

Yes a private citizen can own a fully auto weapon. It's not cheap, but if you have a clean record and fill out the proper paperwork, you can buy one.

[lemeseethem]

Such a young age? My brother and I were shooting bb guns at 4 and 5. My first shotgun was a .410 at 6. I was shooting a .243 at 9 and killed my first deer at 10. She shouldn't have been shooting a full auto. Nothing wrong with teaching kids young how to handle and respect firearms.

[acrawlingchaos]

Yes a private citizen can own a fully auto weapon. It's not cheap, but if you have a clean record and fill out the proper paperwork, you can buy one.

It isn't quite that easy.

The Firearm Owner Protection Act, 18 U.S. Code § 922, states that no new FA firearms will be available for purchase. It is only legal to sell or transfer fully automatic weapons that were manufactured before 1986. This means that there is a finite amount of weapons that can be legally purchased. A standard issue M16 will sell as high as $15,000 legally.

Otherwise, fully automatic weapons are not legal to own at all in CA, DE, DC, HI, NY, or WA.

[WillBrink]

A single shot .22 under guidance is one thing, and fine. Giving a 9 year old girl a micro UZI on full auto, is serious FAIL. Fail that cost him his life, and now will haunt the kid and her family forever. No idea why the parents would say yes to that, why the instructor would allow that, why the range would allow that. It's very bad PR for the shooting community, even though statistically very rare. Accidents happen, but that one totally avoidable.

[WillBrink]

Professional range and trained instructor??? My rectal port... Did you see pictures of that so-callled range? There was not one safety feature that I could see.
I highly doubt the instructor was any sort of professional, just someone working for wages who knew no better, otherwise he wouldn't have been there.

And you cannot buy any full-automatic gun in the private sector in the US. I know they can't be sold, but a range may be able to have one there? I was at a real outdoor range once and there were a few guys down at the end with an AR15 they brought in. Nobody paid them any attention until they let loose a fully automatic burst, everyone else stopped and looked and the instructor hustled them out quickly.

Incorrect. Go search that one hoss. I know various people will full auto firearms.

[Brackneyc]

Incorrect. Go search that one hoss. I know various people will full auto firearms.

I hope they have the correct documentation for those weapons. That would be a jail time offense otherwise, and should be.

[WillBrink]

I hope they have the correct documentation for those weapons. That would be a jail time offense otherwise, and should be.

Supposedly no charges are being pressed. Had they had unlicensed full auto weapons, I'd have expected charges.