Light behing the neck overhead presses = DANGEROUS?

[Looton]

Got the old tsk tsk tsk doing Light behing the neck overhead presses. I also do light behind the neck cable pull downs.
I go light because I'm using the Serge Nubret training technique.
Is there a danger I don't know of doing this old school movement?

[TheIronAsylum]

no danger at all actually pretty benficial for range of movement

[BankWalker]

Behind the neck pressing is the staple of my shoulder routine. I don't typically go very heavy. I ususally stay in the 10 rep range with 135lbs or less. I've gone heavier with 5x5's on them in the past with no problems.

[Mcfreako]

Obviously the lighter u go the less risk of injury, but behind the neck is terrible, and let me ask u, what benefit do u think u are getting doing it that way vs in front?

[Looton]

Thanks guys. I also use the smith machine for a controlled movement. I use a wide stance and wide grip - so I can raise it up all the way.

The guy walked up and said, "You're doing it wrong" etc etc.
-Got rid of him politely-
Then he came back, "Okay, if you want to screw up your neck it's up to you" yak yak yak.

But I'm always open to new information, so...

[Mcfreako]

Thanks guys. I also use the smith machine for a controlled movement. I use a wide stance and wide grip - so I can raise it up all the way.

The guy walked up and said, "You're doing it wrong" etc etc.
-Got rid of him politely-
Then he came back, "Okay, if you want to screw up your neck it's up to you" yak yak yak.

But I'm always open to new information, so...

It's not the neck id be worried about it's the rotator cuff

[Looton]

Thanks Mcfreako!
I'm doing Serge Nubtret's training technique. My sore joints went away and am surprised at the gains I've been getting. He posed into his 60's and looked great.

http://www.t-nation.com/training/ser...-pump-training Behind the neck cable pull down
www.youtube.com/watch?v=kk_o5OtsFls
Youtube search; Serge Nubret Training DVD - Chapter 8 Shoulders

More here if interested;
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...538011&page=31
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.p...315#msg1665315

[BankWalker]

Obviously the lighter u go the less risk of injury, but behind the neck is terrible, and let me ask u, what benefit do u think u are getting doing it that way vs in front?

I'm not the OP.. but I do them behind the neck because my anterior delts at one time over powered my posterior. It also takes the pecs out of the movement.

[Mojoke]

Thanks guys. I also use the smith machine for a controlled movement. I use a wide stance and wide grip - so I can raise it up all the way.

The guy walked up and said, "You're doing it wrong" etc etc.
-Got rid of him politely-
Then he came back, "Okay, if you want to screw up your neck it's up to you" yak yak yak.

But I'm always open to new information, so...

Guy was right... behind the neck pressing is one of the worst exercises you can do, together with upright rows, all for the same reason.
So if you want to keep a healthy shoulder girdle, stop doing them.

[Brackneyc]

Guy was right... behind the neck pressing is one of the worst exercises you can do, together with upright rows, all for the same reason.
So if you want to keep a healthy shoulder girdle, stop doing them.

Many do them with no ill effects. Do what works for you.

[GuyJin]

Your mileage may vary. Granted, if you do them light i.e. 135 or less, you may be able to get away with it. BankWalker doesn't seem to have suffered from any problems, and when I did them I never had any difficulties, either, not until my late forties. That's when the microtrauma in my case--and I stress "my case"--flared up.

I can understand wanting to take your pecs out of the movement, but they're not doing that much even when pressing to the front. That digression aside, ask yourself this: When you climb a rope or a mountain, do you do it with your arms behind your neck or in front? The body evolved the way it did to do presses and pushes from a hands forward position. Evolution, baby, as the saying goes. I know the Chinese weightlifters use a lot of BTN presses, but they do it for loosening up and for overall flexibility, not for weight. They save their strength for the front press. JMO...

[beachguy498]

I go with this on any exercise. If you can't see your hands, don't do it.

[daddyuk]

Got the old tsk tsk tsk doing Light behing the neck overhead presses. I also do light behind the neck cable pull downs.
I go light because I'm using the Serge Nubret training technique.
Is there a danger I don't know of doing this old school movement?

They are fine if done correctly.

[CaptnC]

My ortho surgen told me to never do them. He ask If I did them because he thought it was the cause of my tear. I've never done them so it certainly wasn't the cause, but my tear was in the rear...labrum spelling is most likely wrong, he said it's the same thing as a rotator cuff but in the rear of the shoulder. Most heal on there own, but didn't...had to have it repaired. It wouldn't heal on it's own.

[induced_drag]

What is the point of doing an exercise so light that it does not challenge you?

As for behind the neck movements, there are some that can do them safely and some that can not. It is a structural thing. For the MAJORITY of us, it is not a good idea. I do not do them.

Regardless, I can see little reason to do them over in front of the neck. Same reason I dont bench press wide grip and lower the bar to my neck. Sure, I can hit my chest great like that....but why stress the shoulders?

[bob1776]

I wasn't afraid of them until seeing this. I thought he did a good job of explaining why not to do them.

youtu.be/O6Y3WDY1tUo?t=2m53s

[induced_drag]

Your mileage may vary. Granted, if you do them light i.e. 135 or less,

You are showing your colors man. You are quick to hand out advice, but I really dont think you even lift. (srs) I want to see a vid of you repping 135 behind the neck press like it is "light".

I will put my money where my mouth is.... You post a vid of you repping 135 Behind the neck presses like it is "light" (say 12-15 reps is 'light') and I will donate $100 to the charity of your choice.

Even if it is some transgender male tuckie association like you are into.

Stay in the Misc dude....

[daddyuk]

You are showing your colors man. You are quick to hand out advice, but I really dont think you even lift. (srs) I want to see a vid of you repping 135 behind the neck press like it is "light".

I will put my money where my mouth is.... You post a vid of you repping 135 Behind the neck presses like it is "light" (say 12-15 reps is 'light') and I will donate $100 to the charity of your choice.

Even if it is some transgender male tuckie association like you are into.

Totally agree mate. In for the vid.

[Brackneyc]

They are no more dangerous than any other movement, if form is adhered to. I don't go heavy in the sense that most of the beasts here do, but I do heavy enough to stimulate growth.

I have had both shoulders done, as well as a spinal surgery. My doctor knows my regimen.

[Corbi]

Wait a second, #135 for behind the neck presses are considered light? I use an ez bar while standing to do these and have never been able to get more than #120, i'm not a beast but not a pussy either.

[InternetTuffGuy]

It's not the neck id be worried about it's the rotator cuff

I agree. I can only speak for myself but I've eliminated any behind the neck movements as well as upright rows or military press behind the head. My shoulders just can't handle it.

Pulldowns to the front, standing overhead BB press to the front. That works well for me.

[Bando]

behind the neck pressing is one of the worst exercises you can do, together with upright rows

I can do BHN presses just fine and like the way they hit my anterior delts and entire back. Upright rows just murder my wrists and they work my front delts that get plenty of work with other lifts. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

[v4lu3s]

do what works for YOUR body. everyone is different in their structure and what they can tolerate. behind the neck lat pull downs are uncomfortable for me so i dont do them, a buddy of mine does behind the neck pullups without a problem. I CAN do light behind the neck overhead presses, but prefer not to due to a prior injury. With dumbell lat raises i HAVE to do them with my elbows forward from my shoulders, i cannot do them straight to the side, some days i also cannot do dips or decline bench, but i can always do upright rows, i just have to again have elbows out in front of shoulders. I have a torn acl and worn out most of the cartilage there on the left shoulder...from flat bench.

[FNG37]

So what's the problem?





Oh yeah, people on the internet said so......

[Karl_Hungus]

They are no more dangerous than any other movement, if form is adhered to.

I disagree. Even good form can kill your shoulders with this exercise. The reason is that your shoulder is placed in a position that makes it difficult for the small RC muscles to stabilize the joint. Some people can handle it OK, but ID is right, it is a risky move....and I don't see any additional benefit obtained from doing them behind the neck as opposed to the front. So why take the risk? Why not just do them in front of the neck?

[Brackneyc]

I disagree. Even good form can kill your shoulders with this exercise. The reason is that your shoulder is placed in a position that makes it difficult for the small RC muscles to stabilize the joint. Some people can handle it OK, but ID is right, it is a risky move....and I don't see any additional benefit obtained from doing them behind the neck as opposed to the front. So why take the risk? Why not just do them in front of the neck?

For me, the fronts are more uncomfortable. Not sure why, but they are. I do my front version via clean and press.

[induced_drag]

So what's the problem?

Oh yeah, people on the internet said so......

All the vids you posted are a snatch grip and executed by top level olympic lifters. These have little to no carry over to the general weight trainer, bodybuilder or even powerlifter. I cant even execute a normal 'snatch' without experiencing shoulder issues.

At this level of oly lifting, it is little doubt that these guys have specific genetic gift(s) to be able to do these things safely otherwise they would not be doing what they are doing at the level they do it.





Now lets get back to the important part....that is Guyjin saying 135lb is 'light' for a behind the neck overhead press. Cant wait to see a vid.
Please let me know charity that you would like me to donate to.

[Jtbny]

What is the point of doing an exercise so light that it does not challenge you?

As for behind the neck movements, there are some that can do them safely and some that can not. It is a structural thing. For the MAJORITY of us, it is not a good idea. I do not do them.

Regardless, I can see little reason to do them over in front of the neck. Same reason I dont bench press wide grip and lower the bar to my neck. Sure, I can hit my chest great like that....but why stress the shoulders?

I disagree. Even good form can kill your shoulders with this exercise. The reason is that your shoulder is placed in a position that makes it difficult for the small RC muscles to stabilize the joint. Some people can handle it OK, but ID is right, it is a risky move....and I don't see any additional benefit obtained from doing them behind the neck as opposed to the front. So why take the risk? Why not just do them in front of the neck?

Both of these are my feelings as well. I do know a few who do them regularly without issue but they are incredibly uncomfortable for me and I can isolate my rear delts doing other things like facepulls reverse pec dec ect.

[Mcfreako]

To those of u saying "different strokes", and "they are okay to do" etc etc

Let me ask u this: for the sake of argument, let me PRETEND they are perfectly safe/fine to do....

Even with this being the case, WHAT IS THE BENEFIT vs. doing them in front????

Tell me what that 2-3 inch difference is really making for you.... Because of the benefit is slim to none vs. in front, there is no reason to do them regardless of how safe they are



Ok.....

NOW factor in the fact that they put a ton of added stress on one of the easiest/most common places for lifting related injury(the rotator cuff)....and IMO it seems foolish to do these at all.

Extra risk: yes
Added benefit: none

Logic: yes please

[Bando]

To those of u saying "different strokes", and "they are okay to do" etc etc

Let me ask u this: for the sake of argument, let me PRETEND they are perfectly safe/fine to do....

Even with this being the case, WHAT IS THE BENEFIT vs. doing them in front????

Tell me what that 2-3 inch difference is really making for you.... Because of the benefit is slim to none vs. in front, there is no reason to do them regardless of how safe they are



Ok.....

NOW factor in the fact that they put a ton of added stress on one of the easiest/most common places for lifting related injury(the rotator cuff)....and IMO it seems foolish to do these at all.

Extra risk: yes
Added benefit: none

Logic: yes please

I have strong shoulders (see profile pic). I have a pretty decent run with overhead squats and snatches and cleans. BHN's don't bother me, and as I stated before, I like the way they uniquely hit my anterior delts and back. I have videos of all these things.

One thing I don't have though, is a picture of my hand.