HIIT at 50 - heart rate and wattage targets

[jacofretless]

Long time lurker here, just registered up to ask this question. Strangely, I couldn't get the Advanced Search algorithm to return anything with the word 'HIIT' in the title, in any subsection of the forum. Maybe I'm not using it right...

(Very) Briefly, I'm 50 years old, 5'10". I pathetically rode the diet rollercoaster for a lot of years, climbing up to maybe 180 and then always crash dieting down to about 155. Of course, many years of this left me 'skinny fat' at the end of a diet cycle, with degraded musculature. In April, I was forced to make some changes. Part of my old routine for losing weight was to go on really long, slow runs. My knee had been threatening for a while, although I still played squash and ran on it. This year, my luck ran out and after seeing the sports med doc and having an MRI, I find that I have a torn medial meniscus, "quite a lot of' arthritis", and some sort of scoring on the ligament connecting the tibia to the femur (approximately). I'm seeing the surgeon in a few weeks.

So I saw a good trainer, got a program and one thing he told me was that HIIT was the way to go for revving up my metabolism and getting my cardio in. I do it on the elliptical (trying to save the knee). I get up to a peak of about 280 watts and my heart rate is absolutely through the roof. After about 4 passes at 1 minute rest/25-30 seconds all-out, my heart rate is likely up to 180 or beyond. Can't do the talk test for at least 75 seconds.

Now... all those cardio machines in the gym tell me that this is way outside the 'safe' range for my age. Of course, the insurance guys are the ones that tell the treadmill manufacturers to put that info on there, I assume anyway.

My questions are

1. What level of wattage should I be reaching to ensure that I'm actually getting to the high intensity necessary to make HIIT effective? I've read quite a few articles that specifically warn me to make sure the 'high intensity' part of the workout is actually very high.

2. Is there serious evidence that as an otherwise (very) healthy 50 year old, I should be avoiding this type of thing because it jacks my heart rate up too high?

3. Is it okay that I'm not maximally involving the biggest muscle groups because I'm trying to save the knees? When I do HIIT on the elliptical, I'm pushing and pulling for all I'm worth on the moving arms of the machine.

I love the HIIT. You can feel the effect in your body for hours after the training bout, and the combination of HIIT and strength training has totally changed my body composition. I want to keep doing it but I need to get these two questions answered. I did some searches but couldn't come up with anything definitive.

Thanks

[JWoodCF10]

At this moment I am not a full blown expert in this but I am in the process of trying to become one :-).

However what I can tell you is that a trial was just completed in the over 75 year old hypertensives using HIIT with no adverse effects. (This has literally just finished and is still to be written up for publication)

Wattage is not as important as heart rate, the other thing that is not important is sticking to a specific rest time. The way to do it is 20 seconds all out then let the heart rate drop to your normal, light cardio rate. At the start this may seem like a long time but as you improve this time will reduce. I would also increase your cycles to 10.

[jacofretless]

Thanks for the response. If you have any links to info about that upcoming publication, I'd appreciate it.

I should clarify that I am on about 10 cycles now, it's just that after 4 or 5 my heart is hammering. What I'm doing is just increasing the time between high intensity phases until I feel like I'm somewhere near ready to do another one (usually no longer than a minute.

It's very tempting to believe that I can get good value out of this regimen while leaving enough time for my heart rate to drop into the light cardio range! I was under the impression that sticking to a specific range of rest time was kind of what it's all about!

Obviously the idea is to gradually decrease rest times until your heart isn't about to burst. But this is where I have a problem. I'm willing to drive my body that hard if someone tells me it's okay.

Also great to know wattage isn't as important, because I was reading how some guys can get it up to 350+ and I can't grasp how hard you would have to be going to get that number!

[TheIronMaster]

Wattage? Are you trying to electrify the muscles LOL.

[PrivateFreedom]

Not sure if it's strictly "HIIT", but my version on the bike is to do about 80 rpm, then every 1.5 min I do 20 to 30 seconds as fast as I can. I can get my heart rate into the high 130s this way (I'm 54).

Total time is about 12 to 15 min.

I do a similar timing cycle on the elliptical, but don't know what my HR gets up to.

[jacofretless]

Wattage? Are you trying to electrify the muscles LOL.

Haha, no. Haven't become that desperate yet.

In the studies on HIIT I've been reading, they measure the intensity of the 'high' interval in terms of output, measured by the watts you're generating on the bike/elliptical etc. The cardio machines in my gym show the wattage, so I'm trying to figure out whether it's okay that I'm off the optimal numbers. Like I said, I think many of these studies use super fit university or pro athletes. I just don't believe that the average 50yo could get the wattage up past 375 consistently, at least not for the first xx months of HIIT training.

[jacofretless]

Not sure if it's strictly "HIIT", but my version on the bike is to do about 80 rpm, then every 1.5 min I do 20 to 30 seconds as fast as I can. I can get my heart rate into the high 130s this way (I'm 54).

Thanks. Sounds HIIT-like to me. Lots of writers say that you can and should start off with intervals like the ones you're doing. I have a feeling that an exercise physiologist well acquainted with HIIT might tell you that strictly speaking, you're supposed to get your HR up higher than that, but this is why I'm posting, to figure it out. Bottom line, you're doing better than people who just do steady state cardio for 45 minutes, that's for sure.

I'd be curious if high 130s is after doing this for a while? Was your HR way higher when you first started?

[TheIronMaster]

Haha, no. Haven't become that desperate yet.

In the studies on HIIT I've been reading, they measure the intensity of the 'high' interval in terms of output, measured by the watts you're generating on the bike/elliptical etc. The cardio machines in my gym show the wattage, so I'm trying to figure out whether it's okay that I'm off the optimal numbers. Like I said, I think many of these studies use super fit university or pro athletes. I just don't believe that the average 50yo could get the wattage up past 375 consistently, at least not for the first xx months of HIIT training.

Ok cool I was wondering. Thanks for clearing that up.

[rcclaffe]

Some elliptical machines have a very limited range of motion, and will help develop a narrow range of your leg muscles. Yes, you're getting some good cardio in, which is a great place to start, and it does feel great to push yourself and get through it - but don't become an elliptical Master. You should also try the HIIT principles with other exercises, a circuit of several would be good so that you're developing strength in many areas (search the whole site, you'll find many articles). Mix it up and you'll have better overall development and build a nice foundation for continued development.

[jacofretless]

Some elliptical machines have a very limited range of motion, and will help develop a narrow range of your leg muscles. Yes, you're getting some good cardio in, which is a great place to start, and it does feel great to push yourself and get through it - but don't become an elliptical Master. You should also try the HIIT principles with other exercises.

Thanks a lot for the response. Yeah, because of my knee situation and upcoming 'scope, I'm basically using all upper body on the elliptical to get the elevated heart rate necessary for the HIIT effect. I realize this isn't ideal. I'll definitely try the HIIT in some other ways. I just need to see the surgeon on the 15th and a) get a final diagnosis and find out about the 'scope, and b) ask him what I can do about loading the knee.

Being new to strength training and having experienced the 'noob gains' effect, it is absolutely killing me to go the gym and not be able to work quads. I am going to be sick if I end up with the chicken leg look.

[azeeb]

If you have access to a rowing machine at your gym, they work very well for HIIT too. And they are pretty easy on the knees, at least for me.

[PrivateFreedom]

Thanks. Sounds HIIT-like to me. Lots of writers say that you can and should start off with intervals like the ones you're doing. I have a feeling that an exercise physiologist well acquainted with HIIT might tell you that strictly speaking, you're supposed to get your HR up higher than that, but this is why I'm posting, to figure it out. Bottom line, you're doing better than people who just do steady state cardio for 45 minutes, that's for sure.

I'd be curious if high 130s is after doing this for a while? Was your HR way higher when you first started?

After a couple minutes, my Hr goes to about 110, then cranks up to the 130s when I go faster.

[jacofretless]

If you have access to a rowing machine at your gym, they work very well for HIIT too. And they are pretty easy on the knees, at least for me.

Thanks, I'll definitely give that a try.

After a couple minutes, my Hr goes to about 110, then cranks up to the 130s when I go faster.

Sounds like you're in decent cardio shape. For me, I'm lucky if my heart rate goes down to 130 on the rest phase, especially after a few cycles.

Yesterday I tried increasing the rest interval slightly - I went 80 seconds rest/30 seconds hard. Halfway through I switched to 75 seconds rest/25 seconds hard. It made a difference. I was able to recover a lot more before the next intense phase. Hopefully this isn't totally negating the beneficial effects of the HIIT. I think I just need to take it easy a bit and remember that I need to build this up over time. It's easy for me to forget that, whether it be HIIT or weights.

[JWoodCF10]

Thanks, I'll definitely give that a try.

Sounds like you're in decent cardio shape. For me, I'm lucky if my heart rate goes down to 130 on the rest phase, especially after a few cycles.

Yesterday I tried increasing the rest interval slightly - I went 80 seconds rest/30 seconds hard. Halfway through I switched to 75 seconds rest/25 seconds hard. It made a difference. I was able to recover a lot more before the next intense phase. Hopefully this isn't totally negating the beneficial effects of the HIIT. I think I just need to take it easy a bit and remember that I need to build this up over time. It's easy for me to forget that, whether it be HIIT or weights.

HIIT works by you putting out maximal effort, you are verging on the classical mistake. Not resting enough between sprints.

it sounds like your 25 / 75 is going in the right direction, but I would say 15 seconds flat out, then 75 rest, would be a good start point.

If you want to look at it a different way, your heart rate should never plateau at peak, it should always be climbing.

[Keith5x5]

Been doing HIIT on recumbent last few weeks, 3x week.

BP readings last night was 115/75 and RHR 58. My RHR was never this low when I was focused on lifting.

[JN69]

HIIT is real deal for me. Bigger wheels when I was younger. Sprint training.

Can't snap myself now so that's what I do. Been lucky with past squat/deads. A few years ago, sure. Throw heavy weight on the back or OHP. Was 230 back then. Days long gone. Injury free and thankful. Not pushing my luck. Smart training is the deal. Learn what works.