Christians, is homosexuality a choice?

[Austanian]

Are you emotionally, romantically, and/or sexually attracted to men at all?

How do I go about conditioning my friend to be bisexual?

Trannies get me going... So apparently yes...

The same way you condition anything. This would be difficult because training is easiest at a young age, but anything can be conditioned. Assuming your friend is a sexually

Small steps.
Female male anal play -> Pegging -> Group sex -> MFM sex -> MFM cuckold sex -> Tranny Male female -> MMF sex -> MM Female giving instructions -> MM sex

It is the same way porn preferences evolve.
Pictures -> Lesbians -> Straight -> Hardcore -> Fetish

[flairon]

Marrying a woman is not the definition of heterosexual.

Never said it was. But I'm heterosexual...and there has never been a time when i thought 'you know..i'd really like to suck a dick for a while'. Why? Because i'm heterosexual. Could i train myself to do it? Probably, if for some reason all other options were not working for me

Tons of closeted gay men marry women/have children to avoid the social stigma and because it's expected of them. Doesn't change their underlying orientation. Or they're bisexual, but lean in one direction.

Protip: If you're a guy and you find yourself willingly with a dick in your mouth or ass, you can tell yourself whatever you like, you're gay. And banging girls on the weekend doesn't wash the cockbreath off.

That's not what I'm referring to. You're claiming one can essentially be "trained" how to reject their underlying biological orientation. How does one go about training someone to do that?

Please describe the steps in detail how to make my straight friend for example no longer desire women as much, and develop a stronger desire for men.

Tons of closeted gay men marry women/have children to avoid the social stigma and because it's expected of them

You answered your own question

[DizzySmalls]

How do I go about conditioning my friend to be bisexual?

By wearing away at the idea that same-sex relations are illegitimate, wrong, sinful, worthy of scorn, etc. By exposing people to imagery/suggestions of homosexual activities/relationships. By normalizing/legitimizing the status of same-sex relations in any way, you will influence sexual values and behavior to an extent. There is no denying that.

However, to go further and deny orientation altogether, or to say that attraction is a voluntary choice, is full on potato.

[Austanian]

Never said it was. But I'm heterosexual...and there has never been a time when i thought 'you know..i'd really like to suck a dick for a while'. Why? Because i'm heterosexual. Could i train myself to do it? Probably, if for some reason all other options were not working for me

Protip: If you're a guy and you find yourself willingly with a dick in your mouth or ass, you can tell yourself whatever you like, you're gay. And banging girls on the weekend doesn't wash the cockbreath off.

Tons of closeted gay men marry women/have children to avoid the social stigma and because it's expected of them

You answered your own question

Failing to Acknowledge the possibility as liking both as a legitimate sexuality and instead it making them automatically gay you have destroyed your argument.

[Malfurion]

Being attracted to men is a mental illness not a choice, but engaging in homosexual acts is a choice.

Should they be free to do it? Sure, I don't care, but God has punished the gay community with HIV.

[flairon]

Failing to Acknowledge the possibility as liking both as a legitimate sexuality and instead it making them automatically gay you have destroyed your argument.

I never said it wasn't possible, my point is that not all instances of homosexuality are purely nature. Many of them are by the individuals choice.

[DizzySmalls]

I never said it wasn't possible, my point is that not all instances of homosexuality are purely nature. Many of them are by the individuals choice.

Attraction is really never a choice. I could see where acting on them is a choice like other choices if you are rejecting determinism. But, regardless of the context, I don't think you can choose to be attracted to anything.

You can act on certain attractions instead of others, etc. Society can influence what you are willing to act on, what you are attracted to, etc. Still doesn't make it a voluntary choice.

Take fat women. Can a person choose whether or not they are attracted? No. Can a person who is unattracted still have sex with the woman? Yes. Could they also be attracted to thin women, yes. Was the attraction ever a conscious choice? No.

[DizzySmalls]

Just because you don't like the source, does not change the facts presented... Grow up.

[DizzySmalls]

So a ****phile can't ever change? Or someone who is attracted to beasts, will never be able to overcome that? Interdasting.

Their perverse attractions could be fluid, so I'm not sure if they will wax or wane with time. Whether or not they act on those attractions... that could certainly go either way, and could change over time. That doesn't mean they chose to have attractions to children or animals.

[DizzySmalls]

Obvious the close minded, who would rather cling to their current views and opinions will have a much harder time doing this, because they don't actually want to seek knowledge and truths, they want to be close minded and feel safe.

You mean like selecting sources that match your confirmation bias as a low-information Christian who believes there is legitimacy to dinosaurs having lived on the Earth with humans...

Your tactics are very similar to the conspirotards. Post a bunk source saying something outlandish, and then criticize everyone who calls you out on it as some kind of animal. Usually it is sheep, this time it appears to be ostriches! How exciting!

[flairon]

Attraction is really never a choice. I could see where acting on them is a choice like other choices if you are rejecting determinism. But, regardless of the context, I don't think you can choose to be attracted to anything.

Again...mtnbikedude. Chose to be attracted to a female enough to have kids and marry her, even though according to him he's always been gay. And even though right now he has professed to being gay many times he is STILL choosing to be married to her

You can act on certain attractions instead of others, etc. Society can influence what you are willing to act on, what you are attracted to, etc. Still doesn't make it a voluntary choice.

If 'society' isn't in some way threatening you to make a choice..yeah..its voluntary

Take fat women. Can a person choose whether or not they are attracted? No. Can a person who is unattracted still have sex with the woman? Yes. Could they also be attracted to thin women, yes. Was the attraction ever a conscious choice? No.

The comparison of weight and sexuality isn't the same thing. I have never tested this theory but I'm pretty sure that the way my friends/family/society treat me if they find out im banging the fat girl that works the gas station isn't going to be the same way they treat me if they find out i'm blowing the mailman.

[zmcdole]

Don;t know. Could be chemestry, genetic, social conditioning...

Shemale porn does it for me so IDK.

Ok but you didn't consciously choose what you're turned on by. It's how you are. That's the point im trying to make. Gays are gay because that's how they are. I'm waiting for others to answer why they are the way they are. Not one person in here CHOSE their sexuality.

[DizzySmalls]

Again...mtnbikedude. Chose to be attracted to a female enough to have kids and marry her, even though according to him he's always been gay.

He clearly isn't gay... he's even admitted his bisexual tendencies. He has a strong preference for men, that doesn't make him gay.

Look at my first post in the thread. If you get to choose, you are bisexual. I should have /thread'd it after that

The comparison of weight and sexuality isn't the same thing. I have never tested this theory but I'm pretty sure that the way my friends/family/society treat me if they find out im banging the fat girl that works the gas station isn't going to be the same way they treat me if they find out i'm blowing the mailman.

Yes, the societal consequences are much worse for same sex relations than for fking fat people because it is much more egregious in the public eye. That appears to be cultural, given the differences in both homosexual acceptance and fat acceptance across time and culture.

I'm not trying to say it is the same thing. If anything, I would expect that sexuality in relationship to weight is much more malleable with culture than homosexuality. The comparison is just a more relatable twist on the same thing. Attraction is non-conscious... it's not a blank slate of you vs. society, it's a natural occurrence based on many factors.

And just for clarification for everyone who doesn't realize this, it isn't genetics vs. choice. There are tons of environmental factors which have absolutely nothing to do with voluntary choice. An environmental condition can be just as deterministic as a genetic condition.

[DizzySmalls]

If you are not him, how the heck are you going to sit here and tell us what he is, or is not, when he clearly stated what he is.... You have got to be trolling.

If I say I'm a giraffe will you start viewing me as one? He can self-identify as gay all he wants while saying he has bisexual tendencies, but I don't have to agree with his classification. He is quite obviously through all of his posts bisexual, with a preference for same-sex that is significant. He is "gayer" than he is straight, but he is bisexual. It's none of my business whether he wants to identify that way or not

[zmcdole]

Strong assumption, and making claims for everyone. Yet, you don't know them, nor do you know their background, struggles, etc.



If you are not him, how the heck are you going to sit here and tell us what he is, or is not, when he clearly stated what he is.... You have got to be trolling.

Ok whats your answer? How come you're the way you are? You had to have chosen based on your argument. Who do you know who chose their sexual preference?

[flairon]

He clearly isn't gay... he's even admitted his bisexual tendencies. He has a strong preference for men, that doesn't make him gay.

I have a strong preference for women, i can assure you that makes me straight.

Look at my first post in the thread. If you get to choose, you are bisexual. I should have /thread'd it after that

Not necessarily. Likely there are quite a few that are not same sex oriented or even bi sexual that are really anything but psychologically compromised in one form or another.

Yes, the societal consequences are much worse for same sex relations than for fking fat people because it is much more egregious in the public eye. That appears to be cultural, given the differences in both homosexual acceptance and fat acceptance across time and culture.

I'm not trying to say it is the same thing. If anything, I would expect that sexuality in relationship to weight is much more malleable with culture than homosexuality. The comparison is just a more relatable twist on the same thing. Attraction is non-conscious... it's not a blank slate of you vs. society, it's a natural occurrence based on many factors.

Its not the same thing. In no way is it the same thing. Nobody has ever been killed because of a groups opinions about fuking fat chicks, never has a man who fuked a fat waitress in turn been raped for fuking said whaletress. The response to one is on the opposite ends of the spectrum for the other so you can't say they are 'the same thing' or even comparable.

And just for clarification for everyone who doesn't realize this, it isn't genetics vs. choice. There are tons of environmental factors which have absolutely nothing to do with voluntary choice. An environmental condition can be just as deterministic as a genetic condition.

No doubt. Just as there are tons of psychological factors that ultimately influence choie.

[HaythamKenway]

Why the F*CK do you people care more about when adults have sex with other adults? Don't you realize there are other more important things in this world? Don't you realize your government is screwing you? Don't you realize that your government cares only about profits and votes? Don't you realize that our Mode of Production is BROKEN? Why is our education failing? Why is our economy failing?

But most of all, why do you all care so much about gay marriage? Are you insane? Do you enjoy causing harm to other people's lives?

[DizzySmalls]

I have a strong preference for women, i can assure you that makes me straight.

You have an exclusive preference for women. That is what makes you straight...

I'm not at all in disagreement with your point, in terms of the natural disgust that most people feel towards gays. It is likely not a purely social/conditioned response to feel disgust towards homosexual activity.

The only part of that comparison that I am saying is the same, is that the attraction itself is not voluntary or consciously chosen. You either are turned on by it, or you aren't.

If I could choose my attractions, I would choose to be attracted to the fattest most undesirable woman possible, take zero initiative to win her over, have no competition from other males or concerns about cheating... that would be the best thing ever.

[DizzySmalls]

I don't care if gays have the same governmental rights as heteros. Im sick and tired of the lynch mob LBGTQ community.

Fuk the LGBTQIABC community. Bunch of individual rights hating liberal mobsters who do much more to hurt widespread acceptance of gay people in the most prejudiced communities than they have ever done to help. The only people they are interested in "convincing" is children and college students.

I am not a fan of social engineering through media, so I can understand the complaints. I don't take any of this out on all gay people or let it affect my judgement of individual gay persons.

[HaythamKenway]

Of course most of us realize those things as well. This is just a single discussion on the internet.

I don't care if gays have the same governmental rights as heteros. Im sick and tired of the lynch mob LBGTQ community. The same ones that have gone into churches in states that legalized marriage, been turned away from being married there, and then sued. Or gone to publicly known Christian organizations to incite lawsuits to shut them down...


If they stopped terrorizing Christians, and forcing their views on young, impressionable children, I would not ever even think about it.

What do you mean by "lynch mob LBGT" community?

Do you realize that Christians are the VAST majority in the country? The fact that you feel objectified or pressured by the "LGBT" community means that you've simply encountered them. Don't you understand that Christians hold the power in the country? Are you delusional enough to think that "the gays" somehow are overpowering your churches, and breaking the fingers of your parishioners?

Are you dense? Seriously.

People advocating for marriage equality DOES NOT EQUAL people saying the Bible is false. If you have a problem with adults who have been in love for 20+ years wanting to get married, then that's YOUR problem, because things are changing, and it has NOTHING to do with your pathetic fear and insecurity.

[flairon]

You have an exclusive preference for women. That is what makes you straight...

Yea, but thats me and I'm by no means the template from which all human psyche has been forged. People do things for different reasons that mean something only to them. Combine natural mental instabilities with learned behavior or and event associated with the opposite sex that causes deep psychological drama and you'll get people that will make all sorts of personal choices. Doesn't mean they are right or wrong, good or bad, just means they are choices.

I'm not at all in disagreement with your point, in terms of the natural disgust that most people feel towards gays. It is likely not a purely social/conditioned response to feel disgust towards homosexual activity.

The only part of that comparison that I am saying is the same, is that the attraction itself is not voluntary or consciously chosen. You either are turned on by it, or you aren't.

If I could choose my attractions, I would choose to be attracted to the fattest most undesirable woman possible, take zero initiative to win her over, have no competition from other males or concerns about cheating... that would be the best thing ever.

But there are plenty of guys out there that have fuked a fat girl or 5, that doesn't necessarily mean they like fat girls....it could just mean that their regular banging body girlfriend(s) pissed them off in some way and they wanted a bj. They made the choice to go fuk a fat girl, they weren't driven by blind lust or some natural attractions to fat chicks...but their natural 'attraction' to a blow job or getting laid...so they put up with a chick that otherwise they wouldn't give the time of day to or be attracted to. Same with people who get jacked up in some way with their view of the opposite sex. Rape, abuse both mentally and psycologically, incest, whatever...something that just threw their whole view out of whack and while they may be a big hot steaming psychological mess, they are still human, still crave companionship, relationships, acceptance..etc. And because of whatever event that occured, they aren't even remotely interested in the other sex..so that kind of narrows down the possible field of mates quite a bit. Psychological 'compromises' are made to achieve their goals, if they really want it that bad.

[DizzySmalls]

What do you mean by "lynch mob LBGT" community?

Do you realize that Christians are the VAST majority in the country? The fact that you feel objectified or pressured by the "LGBT" community means that you've simply encountered them. Don't you understand that Christians hold the power in the country? Are you delusional enough to think that "the gays" somehow are overpowering your churches, and breaking the fingers of your parishioners?

Are you dense? Seriously.

People advocating for marriage equality DOES NOT EQUAL people saying the Bible is false. If you have a problem with adults who have been in love for 20+ years wanting to get married, then that's YOUR problem, because things are changing, and it has NOTHING to do with your pathetic fear and insecurity.

The LGBTQIA has the dominant influence in the media and in popular culture. And definitely at universities. It's practically mandatory indoctrination these days, with a side of feminism.

Also, see Gay Wedding Cake Baker, Chic-Fil-A, Barilla pasta, Mozilla, Michael Sam et al.

[MuscleXtreme]

The LGBTQIA has the dominant influence in the media and in popular culture. And definitely at universities. It's practically mandatory indoctrination these days, with a side of feminism.

Also, see Gay Wedding Cake Baker, Chic-Fil-A, Barilla pasta, Mozilla, Michael Sam et al.

Unaware on Barilla pasta.

N/M Awared

[DizzySmalls]

Unaware on Barilla pasta.

N/M Awared

Everything that follows is a quote from a news story:

Guido Barilla made the anti-gay comments during an interview with La Zanzara on Radio24 Wednesday. The radio host asked him why his company does not have ads with gay families.

"We have a slightly different culture," Barilla said, per a Huffington Post translation of the interview. "For us, the 'sacral family' remains one of the company’s core values. Our family is a traditional family. If gays like our pasta and our advertisings, they will eat our pasta; if they don’t like that, they will eat someone else’s pasta. You can’t always please everyone not to displease anyone. I would not do a commercial with a homosexual family, not for lack of respect toward homosexuals – who have the right to do whatever they want without disturbing others – but because I don’t agree with them, and I think we want to talk to traditional families. The women are crucial in this."

[zmcdole]

We see eye to eye on that exactly!

And I have nothing against gays either. Shoot, a really good friend of mine, who is also one of my roommates, has been gay for 20 years. Though he is not of the flamboyant variety, that would get on my nerves.

I assume you asked this good friend why he chose to be gay. What was his response?

[CRyan64]

I assume you asked this good friend why he chose to be gay. What was his response?

I chose to be straight because I wanted to, gnomsayin?

[zmcdole]

We have had many conversations on the topic actually, because he knows my stances as well.

He said he decided to because he felt more comfortable that way.

why does he feel more comfortable that way? Had he had prior experiences with women? I ask because there's a reason he's more comfortable with men. I'm curious as to what that reason is.

Oh and I'm still curious as to why you chose your sexual preference.

[zmcdole]

Picking up what you are putting down.



Because as a Christian, homosexuality is a sin, and I do my best to stay away from sin.

Because he grew up in Seattle? Lmao

so you like women strictly because doing otherwise would be a sin or are you just legitimately attracted to them? Cause if your only reason is that the Bible says so then I'm assuming you could go the other way without any hesitation since it's a choice. If it weren't for the Bible would you still be attracted to women or do you think you'd be attracted to men? SRS. Assuming you realized one day that girls made your peepee go ba doing doing doing, were you a Christian then?

Based on your answer about your friend I can see that you're afraid to answer that question honestly or you would have given a serious answer. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Austanian]

Ok but you didn't consciously choose what you're turned on by. It's how you are. That's the point im trying to make. Gays are gay because that's how they are. I'm waiting for others to answer why they are the way they are. Not one person in here CHOSE their sexuality.

Just because I didn't consciously choose it didn't mean I didn't condition myself for it.

If you showed 16 year old me half the chit I watch he would be disturbed beyond reason.

What I did was desensitize myself to the point where I needed harder and harder things to get aroused.

They may or may not have intentionally did anything, but a large part of who you are has been learned.

[zmcdole]

Just because I didn't consciously choose it didn't mean I didn't condition myself for it.

If you showed 16 year old me half the chit I watch he would be disturbed beyond reason.

What I did was desensitize myself to the point where I needed harder and harder things to get aroused.

They may or may not have intentionally did anything, but a large part of who you are has been learned.

I won't argue that we learn stuff and pick it up as we get older and those experiences shape and mold who we are. My question is what prompted your initial sexual orientation? Was that a choice or did you just realize that certain things turned you on? The conditioning talk is good stuff and I get what you're saying, but my issue is with a person's initial sexual orientation. Somewhere along the way we all discovered what gave us a hard on, but none of us chose what made our sticker peck out. I get that those things may change as you get older and your choices will influence that, but initially I don't buy that it was a conscious decision by anyone.