Christians, is homosexuality a choice?

[zmcdole]

I was pretty much agreeing with you until I got to this part. Testosterone doesn't have anything to do with it as far as attraction to females. When my test levels are high, then I have the same responses that any man has. I feel more aggressive, more masculine, hornier all of that but my attraction to females still affected at all, all that happens is I'm even more attracted to men.

I agreed with everything else and just want to restate again that when I first noticed a guy. It wasn't something I even thought about. It just happened. I didn't even know it was wrong until someone told me..... Believe me if it was something I could choose I would have done anything you asked to be able to. I mean this was rural Utah there was no discussion about it and certainly no one was saying it was ok.

When I was 18 I went to therapy thru the Mormon church and it was supposed to make me straight. My therapist talked to me about a method they were testing at BYU where they would hook your genitals up to electrodes and shock the fuark out of them while showing you pictures of men. I didn't even question it, I was like ok let's do it. Thank God he didn't send me there. Instead he decided I was pretty much cured and sent me on my way. My point is that if they had told me that would work I would have completely had no hesitation. I was willing to do anything to not be gay.

So this whole choice thing it kills me that so many think you are like ummmm boobies or cock I just can't decide...... ummmm I guess I'll choose cock. Even though everyone in my culture would think I was an abomination, not to mention the complete hell that it would make my growing up. Yeah I'll choose cock.

BTW the therapy not only didn't work it caused amazing harm to those that went thru it. There were many suicides and the LDS church only admitted that it happened in 2010 after denying it for years.

thanks for sharing. I guess I didn't even think about it like that when I mentioned test. what you said makes sense though.

I was thinking about bringing up how people who think it's a choice should just go ask someone who is homosexual. Glad you chimed in with real life support to what's being said.

[ONtop888]

I was pretty much agreeing with you until I got to this part. Testosterone doesn't have anything to do with it as far as attraction to females. When my test levels are high, then I have the same responses that any man has. I feel more aggressive, more masculine, hornier all of that but my attraction to females still affected at all, all that happens is I'm even more attracted to men.

I agreed with everything else and just want to restate again that when I first noticed a guy. It wasn't something I even thought about. It just happened. I didn't even know it was wrong until someone told me..... Believe me if it was something I could choose I would have done anything you asked to be able to. I mean this was rural Utah there was no discussion about it and certainly no one was saying it was ok.

When I was 18 I went to therapy thru the Mormon church and it was supposed to make me straight. My therapist talked to me about a method they were testing at BYU where they would hook your genitals up to electrodes and shock the fuark out of them while showing you pictures of men. I didn't even question it, I was like ok let's do it. Thank God he didn't send me there. Instead he decided I was pretty much cured and sent me on my way. My point is that if they had told me that would work I would have completely had no hesitation. I was willing to do anything to not be gay.

So this whole choice thing it kills me that so many think you are like ummmm boobies or cock I just can't decide...... ummmm I guess I'll choose cock. Even though everyone in my culture would think I was an abomination, not to mention the complete hell that it would make my growing up. Yeah I'll choose cock.

BTW the therapy not only didn't work it caused amazing harm to those that went thru it. There were many suicides and the LDS church only admitted that it happened in 2010 after denying it for years.

I wonder if the prevalence and publicity of bi-sexuality, coupled with socially conditioned homosexuality that occurred in Greek history, for example, has led to the widespread belief that one chooses their sexual orientation like a pair of shoes.

On the other hand, as I said before, the distinction between inclination and act is too often conflated to mean the same thing when in fact they are not.

[Fiyero]

being gay is a sin

No, being gay is not a sin. Stop being absurd.

[Fiyero]

Ignorance is a value you hold strongly.

Nope, actually I know far more about this topic than you do. Ironic though that you who relies on religious blogs and anti-gay hate groups to make your case is calling others ignorant.

[Fiyero]

So people who are born gay have to remain virgins for their whole lives by default, and any time they even think about said urges, they sin? Sounds like a terrible, unreasonable curse, an unwinnable game. And then they deserve hell, unless they take certain steps to avoid it. Sounds legit

Welcome to conservative religious beliefs. Illogical and harmful.

[Fiyero]

Define "born gay."

Are you talking about hermaphrodites?

No, do you know what a hermaphrodite is? Being born gay means being biologically predisposed to be exclusively (or almost exclusively) attracted to members of the same-sex.

[Fiyero]

Cool facts to back up your baseless claim, again, oh wait....

Attractions one are born with cannot be a sin, regardless of whether acting on them is. God made gay people. God doesn't create people with sin.

[Fiyero]

Basing my opinions on studies done of a wide range of cultures, it is a choice, though it may be heavily influenced by environmental factors, such as society/culture, the home.

Nope, not a choice. It's found in every culture, environment, family, etc. meaning society/culture plays no role in it. And the vast majority of gays will tell you they made no decision on their attractions.

If it was not a choice, it would be common in all cultures around the world. Where as some have never even heard of it.

It is common in all cultures. It's prevalent in the Middle East where people are executed for being gay. It's found in Africa, Asia, the Americas. It has also been documented in nearly every culture throughout history. Greek, Roman, Egyptian, India, China, etc.

[Fiyero]

In most cases it probably isn't. Based on everything I've read, it looks like there are biological factors as well as social/familial/cultural factors which influence ones sexual orientation.

What social/familial factors? Gays are found in raging anti-gay fundamentalist households and ultra liberal households. In pro-gay cultures and extremely anti-gay cultures.

There is no indication culture/family have any influence on it. The only influence social/cultural factors have is on how transparent it is. Obviously cultures where it's illegal/punishable by death to be gay are going to cause less people to admit they're gay, whereas more liberal cultures will have a larger population of openly gay people.

But that has nothing to do with that actual factors that cause one to be gay.

[Fiyero]

I was thinking about bringing up how people who think it's a choice should just go ask someone who is homosexual. Glad you chimed in with real life support to what's being said.

They don't generally care what actual homosexuals have experienced. They'd rather just spout off nonsense to justify their anti-gay stance. Gay people in this very thread tell them they didn't choose to be gay. Their response, "Yes you did!"

[BDuncs24]

engaging in homosexual acts is a choice.

So you think engaging is heterosexual acts is not a choice?

[DizzySmalls]

People who use the word "sin" and "fact" in the same sentence are pretty funny.

[Weightaholic]

OK, let's have actual gay people versus those who actually chose their sexuality, rather than the religious numpties who simply insist it's that way because of, well, Jebus.

So, straight guys who think it's a choice, when did you decide that you wanted to suck on a boob rather than another blokes todger?

[lasher]

So you think engaging is heterosexual acts is not a choice?

Yes, that's clearly the implication of my posts ITT.

[lasher]

What social/familial factors? Gays are found in raging anti-gay fundamentalist households and ultra liberal households. In pro-gay cultures and extremely anti-gay cultures.

There is no indication culture/family have any influence on it. The only influence social/cultural factors have is on how transparent it is. Obviously cultures where it's illegal/punishable by death to be gay are going to cause less people to admit they're gay, whereas more liberal cultures will have a larger population of openly gay people.

But that has nothing to do with that actual factors that cause one to be gay.

What I said does not appear to be particularly controversial.

The relationship between environment and sexual orientation is a subject of research into possible environmental influences on the development of human sexual orientation. Some researchers distinguish environmental influences from hormonal influences,[1] while others include biological influences such as prenatal hormones as part of environmental influences.[2]

Sexual orientation is theorized as possibly being a combination of genetic, hormonal, and environmental influences.[3] The American Psychological Association stated, "Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles."[4] However, according to Royal College of Psychiatrists, there is "no substantive evidence" which suggests parenting or early childhood experiences play a role.[5] However, in a position statement as of 2014, the RCP has changed their position to reflect that a combination of biological and neonatal factors are involved. Furthermore, the RCP acknowledges that sexual orientation may not, in certain individuals, be set in stone.[6] Results from a 2008 twin study were consistent with moderate, primarily genetic, familial effects, and moderate to large effects of the nonshared environment (social and biological) on same-sex sexual behavior.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environ...al_orientation

[flairon]

OK, let's have actual gay people versus those who actually chose their sexuality, rather than the religious numpties who simply insist it's that way because of, well, Jebus.

So, straight guys who think it's a choice, when did you decide that you wanted to suck on a boob rather than another blokes todger?

And here's a question for you...if its not a choice for some, then exactly what part of a gay man's physiology makes him talk with a lisp, get a little extra swish in his step, have a limp wrist, and suddenly develop a love of platform shoes and short shorts

[flairon]

What social/familial factors? Gays are found in raging anti-gay fundamentalist households and ultra liberal households. In pro-gay cultures and extremely anti-gay cultures.

and its probably that 'raging' that made them make that choice too.

There is no indication culture/family have any influence on it. The only influence social/cultural factors have is on how transparent it is. Obviously cultures where it's illegal/punishable by death to be gay are going to cause less people to admit they're gay, whereas more liberal cultures will have a larger population of openly gay people.

But that has nothing to do with that actual factors that cause one to be gay.

and you have proof of this?

[flairon]

The problem is, that there are tons of cultures where it is not just uncommon, it is completely unknown.

These cultures do not have any stigmas against it, and even the ones where it is known, and not practices, there are no stigmas against it. It just does not exist plain and simple.

You could even chalk it up to the insane amounts of estrogen in our everyday lives. Hence why young women are hitting puberty at all time low ages, and having sex much younger.

those cultures also don't have any acceptance FOR it either...and likely thats a huge factor as to why you don't see homosexuality so open in many cultures.

[mntbikedude]

And here's a question for you...if its not a choice for some, then exactly what part of a gay man's physiology makes him talk with a lisp, get a little extra swish in his step, have a limp wrist, and suddenly develop a love of platform shoes and short shorts

First off the vast majority of gay people don't act like that. Many do have some gay mannerism but most gay people I know don't.The average person would not think they were gay. But there are the obvious gays that are super flamboyant that we all knew they were different clear back in elementary school. I was one of the lucky ones because I can pass for straight. I did have some effeminate mannerisms that I worked hard to get rid of. Not that they were bad but that society said they were bad. Today I still think I act pretty straight but I don't care anymore about stifling my natural self. Every once in a while I say something or do something that I go, oh **** that came out pretty gay. But now I don't care I just laugh because I think ummmmm that person is going to think I'm gay...... and then I think well you are.

But there are some gays that are just so flamboyant that they can either let it destroy them or they can own it. I used to be disgusted by them and thought they hurt the whole gay image. But I changed, to me they are the brave ones. They had to take the bullying that still happens to them. Yeah they are in your face about it. Because they had no other choice. They could teach all of us a lot about bravery and what it really means to be a man.

The a str8 miscer told me about the show on netflix Queer as Folk and it really shows the different mix of types of gay guys. One of the hero's of the show is this guy who is one of the types that just has no other choice but to be himself. (When those flaming types of gays try and act straight it just comes of ridiculous.)

[Iliander]

Homosexuals are NOT born that way. They are sexually perverted.

"18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."

[MuzzieChik786]

"Born gay" is the same as "Born non-gay" except instead of being a heterosexual, you're a homosexual. It is endemic since birth. It's not a choice to be gay, just as its not a choice to be straight.

I'm not sure if I agree with you. The sex organs (the bits and bats) determine your sexuality. Hermaphrodites are the only people can realistically swing both ways because they have the makings of both genders. Slugs are the same.

Eunuchs (either born or created) are typically 1) celibate 2) impotent 3) asexual.

No, do you know what a hermaphrodite is? Being born gay means being biologically predisposed to be exclusively (or almost exclusively) attracted to members of the same-sex.

"Biologically predisposed" - what does that mean? See post above. And yes, there was a time where I had to hang around with hermaphrodites for a while for a paper I was doing. So don't be patronizing.

[PSToolman]

And here's a question for you...if its not a choice for some, then exactly what part of a gay man's physiology makes him talk with a lisp, get a little extra swish in his step, have a limp wrist, and suddenly develop a love of platform shoes and short shorts

The same thing that makes blacks eat watermelon and fried chicken, and develop a love of dancing, and makes Jews good with money and comedy.

[Fiyero]

What I said does not appear to be particularly controversial.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environ...al_orientation

Depends on what they mean by "not set in stone". More than likely it just means in some people, orientation has slight fluidity. But that doesn't mean people go from gay to straight or straight to gay. Personally I believe most humans are wired to be some degree of bisexual and certain factors can influence how that plays out throughout their life and whether their same-sex attractions are suppressed or not. Especially considering our closest evolutionary relative is 100% bisexual as a species.

[Fiyero]

And here's a question for you...if its not a choice for some, then exactly what part of a gay man's physiology makes him talk with a lisp, get a little extra swish in his step, have a limp wrist, and suddenly develop a love of platform shoes and short shorts

The vast majority of gays don't have those, so using that as an argument is pretty weak. A lot of it is probably cultural or social conditioning as a means of letting people know they're gay for dating purposes.

[Fiyero]

I'm not sure if I agree with you. The sex organs (the bits and bats) determine your sexuality.

Lol what? Your genitals don't determine your sexuality. Sexuality is determined by the brain, not the sex organs.

"Biologically predisposed" - what does that mean? See post above. And yes, there was a time where I had to hang around with hermaphrodites for a while for a paper I was doing. So don't be patronizing.

It means the parts of the brain that control sexual preference and attractions are wired in fetal development to lean one way or the other. The reality of which way your brain is wired usually becomes apparent around puberty. Although kids get crushes at young ages too. Are you telling me you never had a crush on a boy when you were younger?

[MuzzieChik786]

Lol what? Your genitals don't determine your sexuality. Sexuality is determined by the brain, not the sex organs.

It means the parts of the brain that control sexual preference and attractions are wired in fetal development to lean one way or the other. The reality of which way your brain is wired usually becomes apparent around puberty. Although kids get crushes at young ages too. Are you telling me you never had a crush on a boy when you were younger?

Do you have resources for me to read on this wiring of the brain that support your statement? I'd like to read them. =)

[Iliander]

Depends on what they mean by "not set in stone". More than likely it just means in some people, orientation has slight fluidity. But that doesn't mean people go from gay to straight or straight to gay. Personally I believe most humans are wired to be some degree of bisexual and certain factors can influence how that plays out throughout their life and whether their same-sex attractions are suppressed or not. Especially considering our closest evolutionary relative is 100% bisexual as a species.

This is bull****. There is no such thing as "sexual orientation". There is only "sexuality" and the perversion of that. Homosexuality is a sexual perversion and a crime. And macro-evolution doesn't exist.

[MuscleXtreme]

Lol what? Your genitals don't determine your sexuality. Sexuality is determined by the brain, not the sex organs.



It means the parts of the brain that control sexual preference and attractions are wired in fetal development to lean one way or the other. The reality of which way your brain is wired usually becomes apparent around puberty. Although kids get crushes at young ages too. Are you telling me you never had a crush on a boy when you were younger?

Ahhh so there's a normal brain and then there's gay brain.

[BDuncs24]

Yes, that's clearly the implication of my posts ITT.

How is it a choice to be gay? I'm 100% gay, and i know it's not a ****ing choice. People don't choose what kind of food they will like, you have try it to see if you like it or not. Same goes for anyone who are gay/lesbian/bisexual/intersexual or pansexual.

[lasher]

How is it a choice to be gay? I'm 100% gay, and i know it's not a ****ing choice. People don't choose what kind of food they will like, you have try it to see if you like it or not. Same goes for anyone who are gay/lesbian/bisexual/intersexual or pansexual.

You need to learn how to read with comprehension.