Official Israel/Palestine discussion thread

[ZioBot]

The moment Israel drops missile on a civilian neighborhood :








http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-building.html

gotta love those israeli missiles and how they can change direction mere meters from target

[TheJimmyRustler]

What kind of fukin potato logic is this. Are Ukrainians indigenous to South Sudan because both are Christian nations? Palestinian are genetically and linguistically(hell "Israeli" cuisine is jacked from Levantine Arab food with a few influence from Yemen like Skhug and the Maghreb) closer to Jews than they are to Pakis or Kazakhs or Malians or Nigerians or Pashtuns or Malaysians or Moroccans or Algerians, Sudanese, or Iranians etc.

literally the dumbest post I have ever seen in my life. I feel nauseous just reading this

What the balls are you on about?

[ZioBot]

I don't have too much sympathy for those who choose to live in Gaza under terrorist Hamas rule. What is a Palestinian economist exactly? Someone who studies Gaza's rocket and tunnel economy lol?

someone who works out that with all that cement - that the Israelis tried to prevent from entering because they knew where it was going - why build homes, hospitals, protection when you can waste it all on tunnels to try kill more Jews, but that will be destroyed wholesale by those same Jews?

The logic of Hamas is not entirely stupid. It is based on the fact that you, the public, are stupid.

Hamas will be ousted by their own people within a year. Thats my prediction.

[RobocopIsBack]

PSUbrah going in. lol

[sawoobley]

A beautiful scene :

That looks criminal to me. Who are they to decide what other people should or shouldn't buy? . Let people choose for themselves. Rustled by these thugs.

[MosheDayan]

someone who works out that with all that cement - that the Israelis tried to prevent from entering because they knew where it was going - why build homes, hospitals, protection when you can waste it all on tunnels to try kill more Jews, but that will be destroyed wholesale by those same Jews?

The logic of Hamas is not entirely stupid. It is based on the fact that you, the public, are stupid.

Hamas will be ousted by their own people within a year. Thats my prediction.

I think I see it going that way too. It's only a matter of time. It's not "if" it happens it's "when" it happens.

"Governments" like hamas can only stay in power for so long until there is a serious resistance from the people of Gaza. Of course certain countries will do everything in their power to stop that happening.

Once the angry people of gaza get over the anger and frustration towards Israel the reality will soon sink in. They've come out of this worse off (again) meanwhile the leaders are partying in Qatar. It will be nice to see hamas get the boot with normal, civilized people replacing them and are willing to help the Palestinians and negotiate with Israel. Hamas' time is coming up. They know it, we know it and even their supporters know it.

[PSUbrah]

Once the angry people of gaza get over the anger and frustration towards Israel the reality will soon sink in. They've come out of this worse off (again) meanwhile the leaders are partying in Qatar.

Fatah tried in 2006 and got raped. Jund Ansar Allah tried in 2009 and got raped. Hamas isn't going anywhere. And the bulk of Hamas' leaders live in Gaza, Mahmoud al Zahar, Ismail Heniyeh, Muhammad Deif, Musa Abu Marzuk, Marwan Issa, Ahmed Jabari(who's was killed in 2012), Saleh al Arouri, Abu Obeida, Mushir al-Masri, Sami Abu Zuhri, all live in Gaza and in open sight(except Deif who is hiding in Gaza somewhere). They could easily leave and not have to worry about assassinations but they don't.

And if Hamas were to be surpassed by another group it would be Palestinian Islamic Jihad.

The only reason Mesha'al doesn't live in Gaza is because
a) Israel would assassinate him on the spot like they tried in Jordan back in 1999
b) He along with a slew of other Hamas members were exiled from Palestine in 1992 at the end of the First Intifada and the PA wouldn't let him return. Those that were not exiled are listed above.

Anyways Hamas as only bee hosted in Qatar for two years. They were hosted in Syria from 2000-2012.

[ZioBot]

That looks criminal to me. Who are they to decide what other people should or shouldn't buy? . Let people choose for themselves. Rustled by these thugs.

happy to see this tbh, as it documents the violent, antagonistic nature of these thugs. I have spoken with many of these people over the last couple of weeks, and smashed them all in debates. You can't believe how dumb and uninformed they are. I think this is good, its waking people up a bit. When people are afraid to shop because of these criminals, you're not just annoying Jews, you're annoying everyone. See this also:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...rotesters.html

[MosheDayan]

Fatah tried in 2006 and got raped. Jund Ansar Allah tried in 2009 and got raped. Hamas isn't going anywhere. And the bulk of Hamas' leaders live in Gaza, Mahmoud al Zahar, Ismail Heniyeh, Muhammad Deif, Musa Abu Marzuk, Marwan Issa, Ahmed Jabari(who's was killed in 2012) all live in Gaza and open sight. They could easily live and not have to worry about assassinations but they don't.

The only reason Mesha'al doesn't live in Gaza is because
a) Israel would assassinate him on the spot like they tried in Jordan back in 1999
b) He along a slew of other Hamas members were exiled from Palestine in 1992 at the end of the First Intifada and the PA wouldn't let him return. Those that were not exiled are listed above.

I honestly don't care if they all try to kill each other off, but as I previously said... The change in gaza won't come from Israel, it won't come from PLO, it can only come from the people.

It literally confuses me how some idiots in the West think Hamas are fighting the good fight. They're absolutely horrendous and need to be removed. They represent everything that is wrong with the Palestinians and do themselves no favor with the international world frowning upon them and having less sympathy for them with how they play politics. I think Israel has probably gone too light on them and I praise the IDF for their restraint.

[ll ReNeGaDe ll]

I wasn't expecting him to cupcake...Nazi Zionists like your breed are far too blinded by your ignorance to see reality.

And pro-Palestine activists like yourself don't know the difference between fact and opinion.

As I've said multiple times before, lack of critical thinking skills is a necessary prerequisite for pro-Palestine sentiment.

[ll ReNeGaDe ll]

What the balls are you on about?

He was using a Strawman argument.

Anyway, since you were interested, I computed the amount of "genocide" here and the Syria thread to control for the variables you mentioned

Syria Thread
Posts discussing genocide - Approximately 22 (not counting those quoting those posts and discussing other matters)
Posts currently accusing Syria of Genocide - 7 (only four posts directly and unequivocally stating Syria committing genocide, other posts quoting news articles or just entertaining the idea)

This thread
Posts accusing Israel of committing genocide - 11 (only 2 of which includes posting articles uncritically)
Posts accusing Israelis as a people of supporting genocide : 2 (compared to 0 in Syria thread)
Posts accusing Israel of wanting genocide, but not committing it for some reason: 3 (compared to 0 in the Syria thread)

Only 3 people in the Syria thread overtly claimed Syria committed genocide, far more than that occurred in this thread. Syria threads has 4X the amount of posts but less accusations of genocide. Syria also has over 60X the amount of killings.

Pro-Palestine hypocrisy.... Every. Single. Time.

[Spartan5364]

The moment Israel drops missile on a civilian neighborhood :










http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-building.html

the missile was going so slowly that the biker managed to get out of the frame and instead a horse walked into in?

[mehdi84]

He was using a Strawman argument.

Anyway, since you were interested, I computed the amount of "genocide" here and the Syria thread to control for the variables you mentioned

Syria Thread
Posts discussing genocide - Approximately 22 (not counting those quoting those posts and discussing other matters)
Posts currently accusing Syria of Genocide - 7 (only four posts directly and unequivocally stating Syria committing genocide, other posts quoting news articles or just entertaining the idea)

This thread
Posts accusing Israel of committing genocide - 11 (only 2 of which includes posting articles uncritically)
Posts accusing Israelis as a people of supporting genocide : 2 (compared to 0 in Syria thread)
Posts accusing Israel of wanting genocide, but not committing it for some reason: 3 (compared to 0 in the Syria thread)

Only 3 people in the Syria thread overtly claimed Syria committed genocide, far more than that occurred in this thread. Syria threads has 4X the amount of posts but less accusations of genocide. Syria also has over 60X the amount of killings.

Pro-Palestine hypocrisy.... Every. Single. Time.

Do you know what the word genocide means?

Beyond that, do you actually believe there is a debate over whether or not Assad is a mass murderer?

[ll ReNeGaDe ll]

Do you know what the word genocide means?

I'm aware of all the definitions.

Any definition vague enough to apply to Israel, also applies to Syria (and every other country that has been to war, ever).

The more detailed definitions do not apply to Israel, and definitely apply to Syria.

There are no excuses for the hypocrisy, brah.

[mehdi84]

I'm aware of all the definitions.

Any definition vague enough to apply to Israel, also applies to Syria (and every other country that has been to war, ever).

The more detailed definitions do not apply to Israel, and definitely apply to Syria.

There are no excuses for the hypocrisy, brah.

Humor me.

What is the bastardized definition that is being used in the case of Palestine?

What is the correct definition of genocide?

gen·o·cide
ˈjenəˌsīd/Submit
noun
noun: genocide; plural noun: genocides
the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation.



Humor me further. Do you believe that there is a polarizing debate as to whether or not Assad committed mass murder? If not, then why would you expect there to be pages of debate on the topic?



The potato logic you are using to validate your beliefs really just goes to show how deluded your beliefs are.

[ll ReNeGaDe ll]

Humor me.

How is the definition being used vaguely in the case of Palestine?

What is the correct definition of genocide?

gen·o·cide
ˈjenəˌsīd/Submit
noun
noun: genocide; plural noun: genocides
the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation.



Humor me further. Do you believe that there is a polarizing debate as to whether or not Assad committed mass murder?



The potato logic you are using to validate your beliefs really just goes to show how deluded your beliefs are.

I don't have beliefs, I am only aware of facts and logic.

- The definition you posted is vague (what is a "large" amount of people?)
- If the definition of large is 1,800 then this definition applies to Israel and Syria (as well as every other country that has been to war)
- In proportion to the amount killed and the amount of posts discussing the two conflicts, it is used against Israel significantly more

As far as your next question goes:

Humor me further. Do you believe that there is a polarizing debate as to whether or not Assad committed mass murder?

Notice, you said "mass murder" and not genocide. This is exactly what I'm talking about. To answer your question, no. As the definition of "mass murder" is more cut and dry than the definition of genocide.

[.hatches.]

Someone failed math.

And logic.

lmao i was like lmao

Inb4 he doesnt reply and spams more stupid crap

That's actually a sig worthy post that you quoted lol

Sorry Einsteins. I didn't feel like typing 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 999998%

[ll ReNeGaDe ll]

Sorry Einsteins. I didn't feel like typing 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 999998%

That would also be fail logic.

Since you're attributing Israelis hiding in shelters from falling rockets to "the effectiveness of the iron dome." In other words, part of the reason Israeli civilians aren't dying has nothing to do with the iron dome, and everything to do with them hiding in shelters.

[ll ReNeGaDe ll]

It's pathetic that you not only believe this, but you actually say it publicly.

What are my "beliefs" that are not well-supported by facts? I await your answer

Almost as bad as this though:

[img]http://i.imgur.com/MVuLBle.jpg[img]

My joyous life with women has nothing to do with the Israel/Palestine debate, brah.

Take it up with Oxford: http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us...glish/genocide

Do you have a problem with their definition? If so, who's definition of genocide do you go by? Cite it.

You are not responding to the actual point. The point is that that definition applies to all nations who have ever gone to war.Yet, it is disproportionately used against Israel.

No, what is it that you are talking about? Assad is not targeting an ethnic group, race or nation. It's a civil war. "Mass murder" is the more appropriate word to be using. Once again, see above.

1) Nothing in Oxford's definition discusses who is targeted, only who is killed. Assad is indeed killing large amount of people in an ethnic group, and hence matches the Oxford definition.

2) Oxford's definition does not necessarily apply only to people who kill large amounts of people in an ethnic group or a nation. That is why the word especially is used. Because according to this definition, it typically applies to that situation, but not necessarily.

That said, you'll find few (if any) people batting an eye for calling Assad's actions genocidal, or waste their time defending it.

..... And few people proclaiming GENOCIDE! apparently, as they do with Israel.

Did you fold, or is this a check-mate?

Then you have you answer. There are less posts, less debate, less accusations of Assad... because we all agree he is a piece of ****. It's not because pro-Palestinians just "hate the Jews", as you originally started this debate with.

Less posts, less debate, less cries of genocide. The hysteria.... Simply not the same. The emotionally charged language... Simply not the same. What do you think would happen if I searched both threads for people shrieking "baby killers" ? I think you already know the answer.

[mehdi84]

What are my "beliefs" that are not well-supported by facts? I await your answer

The point is, you sound like a tool making statements like that.

My joyous life with women has nothing to do with the Israel/Palestine debate, brah.

You are not responding to the actual point. The point is that that definition applies to all nations who have ever gone to war.Yet, it is disproportionately used against Israel.

You haven't provided another definition yet. Do you have one or not?

1) Nothing in Oxford's definition discusses who is targeted, only who is killed.

And?

Assad is indeed killing large amount of people in an ethnic group, and hence matches the Oxford definition.

What ethnic group is he targeting?

2) Oxford's definition does not necessarily apply only to people who kill large amounts of people in an ethnic group or a nation.
That is why the word especially is used. Because according to this definition, it typically applies to that situation, but not necessarily.

Traditionally it does, hence the way it's worded. Once again, where is your definition?

This entire point is a non-sequester anyways.

..... And few people proclaiming GENOCIDE! apparently, as they do with Israel.

Less posts, less debate, less cries of genocide. The hysteria.... Simply not the same. The emotionally charged language... Simply not the same. What do you think would happen if I searched both threads for people shrieking "baby killers" ? I think you already know the answer.

You're not addressing the counter argument at all, and instead presenting a straw man and retracting from a point you've already conceded. What happened to your reason and logic?

[ll ReNeGaDe ll]

The point is, you sound like a tool making statements like that.

This is an emotional argument. It doesn't matter what it sounds like, it only matters if it is accurate.

Perhaps you can show me the connection.

You haven't provided another definition yet. Do you have one or not?

Of course, but I feel it is a distraction from the point at hand. Oxford's definition is quite irrelevant. Once we can resolve the current issue, I can move on to the more specific definition from a different dictionary. I repeat, the point at hand is NOT that Oxford's definition is wrong. You are not responding to the actual point. The point is that that definition applies to all nations who have ever gone to war. Yet, the word genocide is disproportionately used against Israel.

And?

What ethnic group is he targeting?

.... He is killing a large amount of Syrian people --> Which matches the Oxford definition of genocide.

You're not addressing the counter argument at all, and instead presenting a straw man and retracting from a point you've already conceded. What happened to your reason and logic?

I did address it, by implying it was irrelevant (perhaps I should have been more explicit). Your counter-argument (that everyone knows Assad is a bad man, that nobody cares if they say its a genocide) was irrelevant to my point. I'm not sure how to respond to statements that don't address my concerns. My argument (from the beginning) was that emotional and hyperbolic terminology is disproportionately used against Israel. The fact that there is less debate over Assad does not explain why within 4X the amount of posts in the Syria thread, fewer posters than here used the word genocide. I already controlled for back-and-forth debate.

[mehdi84]

This is an emotional argument. It doesn't matter what it sounds like, it only matters if it is accurate.



Perhaps you can show me the connection.



Of course, but I feel it is a distraction from the point at hand. Oxford's definition is quite irrelevant. Once we can resolve the current issue, I can move on to the more specific definition from a different dictionary. I repeat, the point at hand is NOT that Oxford's definition is wrong. You are not responding to the actual point. The point is that that definition applies to all nations who have ever gone to war. Yet, the word genocide is disproportionately used against Israel.



.... He is killing a large amount of Syrian people --> Which matches the Oxford definition of genocide.

I did address it, by implying it was irrelevant (perhaps I should have been more explicit). Your counter-argument (that everyone knows Assad is a bad man, that nobody cares if they say its a genocide) was irrelevant to my point. I'm not sure how to respond to statements that don't address my concerns. My argument (from the beginning) was that emotional and hyperbolic terminology is disproportionately used against Israel. The fact that there is less debate over Assad does not explain why within 4X the amount of posts in the Syria thread, fewer posters than here used the word genocide. I already controlled for back-and-forth debate.

Of course it does. The more polarized a discussion, the more sht flinging that takes place. Common fcking sense.

Call it mass murder, or genocide. What is there to debate on whether Assad is guilty of it? If there is no debate, how often will the point need to be reiterated, and therefore the word? In the case of Israel, we have one side that does not believe genocide is taking place, so of course the point will continue to be made using that very keyword.

Seriously...

[ll ReNeGaDe ll]

Of course it does. The more polarized a discussion, the more sht flinging that takes place. Common fcking sense.

Call it mass murder, or genocide. What is there to debate on whether Assad is guilty of it? If there is no debate, how often will the point need to be reiterated, and therefore the word? In the case of Israel, we have one side that does not believe genocide is taking place, so of course the point will continue to be made using that very keyword.

Seriously...

Alright. We can compare it to US troops in Afghanistan and Iraq. Would you like to bet that the genocide label was used less frequently against American troops on a post:usage ratio?

Edit: Your post doesn't explain the whole "baby killers" though. Since nobody who is pro-Israel denies that Palestinian babies has died, that does not explain why it is used here much more frequently.

[mehdi84]

Alright. We can compare it to US troops in Afghanistan and Iraq. Would you like to bet that the genocide label was used less frequently against American troops on a post:usage ratio?

Edit: Your post doesn't explain the whole "baby killers" though. Since nobody who is pro-Israel denies that Palestinian babies has died, that does not explain why it is used here much more frequently.

You've already conceded, so why continue playing this game? As for your edit, it's already been addressed. It falls into the category of sht flinging.

[ll ReNeGaDe ll]

You've already conceded, so why continue playing this game? As for your edit, it's already been addressed. It falls into the category of sht flinging.

I am entertaining your argument that an alternative hypothesis is polarization of the debate, leads pro-Palestine people to use more emotional rhetoric.

If your alternative hypothesis is correct though, that would mean that we would see a comparable amount of emotional rhetoric in the conflicts involving US troops, which are also polarized (yet many more deaths).

This is not a game. This is how debate actually works.

[moneywithmuscle]

Does anybody here understand what even happened to Palestine? It used to be under Ottoman Empire rule - then Britain captured it and ruled it - and then Britain decided to split it in two - and create a state for the Jewish people. Why the "Palestinian" people feel they have a claim to the whole region is baffling. You lost mofo's, get over it. Embrace the diversity!

[CXC3000]

Does anybody here understand what even happened to Palestine? It used to be under Ottoman Empire rule - then Britain captured it and ruled it - and then Britain decided to split it in two - and create a state for the Jewish people. Why the "Palestinian" people feel they have a claim to the whole region is baffling. You lost mofo's, get over it. Embrace the diversity!

The Palestinians were living in the area for hundreds of years and all of a sudden, the Zionists came and kicked them out. What do you think the former should do ?

[moneywithmuscle]

The Palestinians were living in the area for hundreds of years and all of a sudden, the Zionists came and kicked them out. What do you think the former should do ?

Move on with their lives.

[CXC3000]

Gaza homes 'uninhabitable' as tens of thousands come back to rubble

United Nations says the level of destruction is 'unprecedented' as 30,000 people in Beit Hanoun alone need rehousing

Mohammed al-Kafarna, the mayor of Beit Hanoun, a northern town which saw fierce fighting and heavy bombardment, said 70% of homes were uninhabitable. "Basically the town is unliveable. There is no power, water or communications. There are not the basics for life," he said.

In Shawkat, a neighbourhood of Rafah city in the south which saw heavy fighting after an earlier ceasefire collapsed within hours, 300 out of 2,000 houses had been destroyed, along with the town hall. "You can't imagine the destruction," said Adel Lubda, the chief council engineer.

On Monday, the United Nations called the level of destruction "unprecedented".

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...hamas-conflict

http://www.theguardian.com/world/gal...ld-in-pictures

--------

[moneywithmuscle]

I find it laughable that Muslims and Lefties are so concerned over Israel and Gaza, but show little care to the hundreds of thousands forced to flee in Iraq and Syria due to ISIS, and the ongoing slaughter of thousands of Sunnis, Yazidis, and Christians.

I guess they only care when it is Non-Muslim killing Muslim and f*ck everyone else….right?