Bodyweight in Powerlifting

[jasoncanseeoh]

Hi, guys.
There was a thread very similar to this about a month ago posted here, but I can't seem to find it.

Anyway, we all know that the more you weigh, you're ability to lift more weight becomes better. But I really want to know the science of this.

Let's say you have two men with the SAME AMOUNT OF MUSCLE MASS. Although, one man has 10% body fat @ 170lbs. The other man has 20% body fat @ 183.6lbs. This equates to both men having 153lbs of lean mass, but in theory, the heavier man can lift more. This is just an example, but I'm sure you can get the gist of what I'm getting at.


Cliffs:
Why do bigger/heavier people have the ability to lift more weight assuming he has the same amount of muscle as a 'leaner' guy?

[WCbouche]

Why do bigger/heavier people have the ability to lift more weight assuming he has the same amount of muscle as a 'leaner' guy?

Leverage

[SaviorSelfJT]

Anyway, we all know that the more you weigh, you're ability to lift more weight becomes better.

This is very debatable.

What if one guy is 5'0 and the other guy is 6'5 but only outweighs the other by a couple lbs????

What if they are the same height but different bf percentage (as you mentioned) ?

[Muzzlrpress]

A heavier base will better stabilize a heavy load.

[jasoncanseeoh]

This is very debatable.

What if one guy is 5'0 and the other guy is 6'5 but only outweighs the other by a couple lbs????

What if they are the same height but different bf percentage (as you mentioned) ?

I understand what you're saying.
But I was just getting to the point that as weight classes increase, we understand that the weight on the bar is increased as well.... Which is why weight classes exist in the first place.

[SaviorSelfJT]

I understand what you're saying.
But I was just getting to the point that as weight classes increase, we understand that the weight on the bar is increased as well.... Which is why weight classes exist in the first place.

I can't agree with that in all cases.

Let's say that you gain 5 lbs of bodyweight, but at the same time you gained a foot in height. Does your strength still increase?

Or you gain 5 lbs of bodyweight but you somehow go from 10 to 50 percent bodyfat percentage. Strength still increase?

[Shanson07]

say you have two men with the SAME AMOUNT OF MUSCLE MASS. Although, one man has 10% body fat @ 170lbs. The other man has 20% body fat @ 183.6lbs. This equates to both men having 153lbs of lean mass, but in theory, the heavier man can lift more. This is just an example, but I'm sure you can get the gist of what I'm getting at.

170*.1=17, 170-17=153#
183.6*.2=36.72, 183.6-36.72=146.8#

First, do you even math? Second, we have no idea which of these two men lift more. Third, there is no answer to your question. In theory, the people who weigh more have more muscle, reduced ROMs (possibly), and greater efficiencies. /thread

[breathinglife]

Hi, guys.
There was a thread very similar to this about a month ago posted here, but I can't seem to find it.

Anyway, we all know that the more you weigh, you're ability to lift more weight becomes better. But I really want to know the science of this.

Let's say you have two men with the SAME AMOUNT OF MUSCLE MASS. Although, one man has 10% body fat @ 170lbs. The other man has 20% body fat @ 183.6lbs. This equates to both men having 153lbs of lean mass, but in theory, the heavier man can lift more. This is just an example, but I'm sure you can get the gist of what I'm getting at.


Cliffs:
Why do bigger/heavier people have the ability to lift more weight assuming he has the same amount of muscle as a 'leaner' guy?

I doubt that the heavier guy would lift more in your little scenario. Yes, if he was heavy enough that he shortened his ROM, it'd make a difference, but 170 to 183 lbs isn't going to make too much of a difference. My guess would be the two individuals (if they were identical twins with the exact same body otherwise) would lift the same amount.

Again, yes, a heavier body will be better able to stabilize a heavy load, but the 13 lbs in your scenario wouldn't make much of a difference.

The basic assumption is the more muscle moves more weight. Weight classes aren't really built around the idea that fat produces better leverages and thus bigger lifts. I.e., the reality is that lifters have radically different LBM from weight class to weight class, and the assumption is the LBM is higher in higher weight classes.

[JamesW129]

This is very debatable.

What if one guy is 5'0 and the other guy is 6'5 but only outweighs the other by a couple lbs????

What if they are the same height but different bf percentage (as you mentioned) ?

Why even ask such a question? There are far, far too many variables to account for.

[SaviorSelfJT]

Why even ask such a question? There are far, far too many variables to account for.

Are you directing this question at me or the OP?

[SaviorSelfJT]

I doubt that the heavier guy would lift more in your little scenario. Yes, if he was heavy enough that he shortened his ROM, it'd make a difference, but 170 to 183 lbs isn't going to make too much of a difference. My guess would be the two individuals (if they were identical twins with the exact same body otherwise) would lift the same amount.

Again, yes, a heavier body will be better able to stabilize a heavy load, but the 13 lbs in your scenario wouldn't make much of a difference.

The basic assumption is the more muscle moves more weight. Weight classes aren't really built around the idea that fat produces better leverages and thus bigger lifts. I.e., the reality is that lifters have radically different LBM from weight class to weight class, and the assumption is the LBM is higher in higher weight classes.

Agreed, but it's not just about total muscle mass, rather muscle mass divided by muscle length. To be specific, cross sectional area of the muscle. It's the same idea that a longer cable isn't stronger, but a thicker one is.

So more LBM won't necessarily lift more weight if the musculature is short enough.

[breathinglife]

Agreed, but it's not just about total muscle mass, rather muscle mass divided by muscle length. To be specific, cross sectional area of the muscle. It's the same idea that a longer cable isn't stronger, but a thicker one is.

So more LBM won't necessarily lift more weight if the musculature is short enough.

Right, but in his little scenario he seemed to be implying that every variable was the same except that one individual had more fat than the other--at least that was the point he chose to highlight.

In most of these sorts of posts, it seems the underlying rational behind all of it is that the OP is bent on trying to find a reason to find certain lifts more or less impressive based on bodyweight/leverages/etc., but I'm not sure whether that's the case in this situation, so I gave a response.

[SaviorSelfJT]

Right, but in his little scenario he seemed to be implying that every variable was the same except that one individual had more fat than the other--at least that was the point he chose to highlight.

In most of these sorts of posts, it seems the underlying rational behind all of it is that the OP is bent on trying to find a reason to find certain lifts more or less impressive based on bodyweight/leverages/etc., but I'm not sure whether that's the case in this situation, so I gave a response.

Maybe. I'm tempted to introduce the 'square/ cube' law as I've heard someone call it.

But tl:dr

1. Weight lifted is proportional to cross sectional area of muscle
2. Taller people have the potential for more cross sectional area
3. Powerlifting is in weight classes, not height classes
4. By maxmizing your bodyweight while keeping bf down, you compete against taller people
5. Taller people at the same weight will have less cross sect. area
6.....
7. profit?

The square/ cube law is just a way to quantify that.

[isaku900]

Maybe. I'm tempted to introduce the 'square/ cube' law as I've heard someone call it.

But tl:dr

1. Weight lifted is proportional to cross sectional area of muscle
2. Taller people have the potential for more cross sectional area
3. Powerlifting is in weight classes, not height classes
4. By maxmizing your bodyweight while keeping bf down, you compete against taller people
5. Taller people at the same weight will have less cross sect. area
6.....
7. profit?

The square/ cube law is just a way to quantify that.

wooo: http://www.ftexploring.com/think/superbugs_p2.html

[johndoejd54]

If your 20% you have way more muscle glycogen aka energy in training

If your 20% you have way more water aka joint protection

So 20%bf guy can train harder and acquire a larger stimulus

It's like

Person a does a PR triple but they are tired and a little hurt so they stop

Person b feels good or at least better than person a after a PR triple and can try again or at least hit up accessory work harder which could get a good 10 extra lbs in a meet cycle if you are Intermediate



But if you got a guy that is 185 or whatever weight the 2nd guy was and 10%bf that guy will most likely win since he has so much more muscle



Edit: and person A probably does routine cuts which means less or slower linear progression, to be honest most likely gets negative progression when cutting