Russia releases proof Ukraine shot down MH17

[FlyingGrenades]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-0...-warplanes-mh1

http://rt.com/news/174412-malaysia-p...ussia-ukraine/



Meanwhile this is what the USA has to say

>http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...a-live-updates

The US "is more credible" than Russia, US State Department spokesperson Marie Harf has said at a separate press conference.

>We know that the Ukrainian military was not operating anti-aircraft weapons at that area at that time. We've seen social media accounts of that SA-11 system moving from Ukraine back across the border into Russia. And we've seen social media accounts of the separatists [talking] about the shoot-down of the plane."

>social media accounts

[lasher]

inb4 OP goes on Luke's "List"

[unstrong]

I'm not exactly sure what there constitutes "proof"

I'm not sure that we'll ever get any actual proof, but we haven't gotten it yet.

[kusok]

Cliffs of the whole thing:


1- Plane is shot down.
2- US presents tweets and ******** post as "proof" that Russians did it.
3- sheep swallow it
4- Russia presents radar read outs, photos from satilite, and technical info saying Ukrainians did it.
5- sheep say: well, this isn't proof. We would like some legit proof like a tweet or a ******** post.

[jacklambert58]

So, you're saying the Ukrainians did it?

[kusok]

So, you're saying the Ukrainians did it?

I dont know. Neither does anyone on this forum. Even if they think they know. I'm just providing counterpoints. There is strong pro US bias here, as there is strong pro Russia bias on Russian forums no doubt. Both are retarded and are lying to themselves.

Hellz, even the shooters may not know who gave the order. It's a mistery wrapped in an enigma inside a riddle.

[flairon]

God why do we even give a sh*t

[jacklambert58]

I dont know. Neither does anyone on this forum. Even if they think they know. I'm just providing counterpoints. There is strong pro US bias here, as there is strong pro Russia bias on Russian forums no doubt. Both are retarded and are lying to themselves.

Hellz, even the shooters may not know who gave the order. It's a mistery wrapped in an enigma inside a riddle.

Either way, it does seem like an accident, unless it was intentional.

[muscleserge]

Either way, it does seem like an accident, unless it was intentional.

They accidentally told the pilot to deviate, send 2 Su 25s, move their BUKs there, fire, recuse to release air traffic logs, fake audio and video, blame Russia. They sure have a lot of accidents.

[akarpus]

lol @ ZeroHedge its a hotbed of anti western propaganda the people there openly dream about the destruction of western societies and the collapse of the world economy. They have wet dreams about Putin on that site.

[gachase21]

Either way, it does seem like an accident, unless it was intentional.

This is my take so far.

This is why you don't give dumb asses control of powerful weapons or equipment.

Weapon systems like this don't need to be controlled by some solider on shift to take the spot who was quickly trained how to use it.

Anyone who has ever used weapons systems like this would clearly know how to ID their target, and damn sure knows you never fire unless you have a good target ID. Heck, just from a military standpoint it's a waste of resources to fire things at targets when you don't know the target.

[iStinkFist]

inb4 Luke

[unstrong]

This is my take so far.

This is why you don't give dumb asses control of powerful weapons or equipment.

Weapon systems like this don't need to be controlled by some solider on shift to take the spot who was quickly trained how to use it.

Anyone who has ever used weapons systems like this would clearly know how to ID their target, and damn sure knows you never fire unless you have a good target ID. Heck, just from a military standpoint it's a waste of resources to fire things at targets when you don't know the target.

This is about all the general public knows about this incident, lol

[ElMariachi]

Lazy Russian propaganda.

MOSCOW, July 21. /ITAR-TASS/. Russian air data records indicate that a Ukrainian Su-25 warplane might have been flying towards the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 passenger plane on the day when it crashed in eastern Ukraine on July 17, Lieutenant-General Andrei Kartapolov, head of the Main Operations Department of the Russian Army General Staff, said at a news conference on Monday, July 21.

"Records show that the Ukrainian Air Force plane ascended to the distance of 3-5 km from the Malaysian Boeing," he said. " The Su-25 can fly at altitudes of up to 10 km. It is armed with P-60 air-to-air missiles that can hit targets at a distance of up to 12 km and reliably within 5 km."

Su-25 is an air to ground support plane with a maximum altitude of 23,000 feet or 7km, less if its carrying missiles. The actual missiles can travel a long distance but have an IR guided 7kg warhead. For comparison, the warheads from the 2 missiles that took out Korean Airlines flight 007 were 40kg each and the plane still continued to fly for a bit in spite of taking a direct hit.

SU-25 Service ceiling: 7,000 m, (22,965 ft) clean, 5,000 m (16,000 ft) with max weapons

Look at the first three Cyrillic letters next to the 351.








Singapore 351 was flying north of that area around the same time, it left Copenhagen a half hour after MH-17 left Amsterdam. These radar screens are showing that flight rather than MH-17. Flightaware shows that it was cruising at around 35,000.








Russians are slipping in their propaganda game, used to be a lot more effective back in the Soviet era.

[GrokTheCube]

I don't really care who gets blamed for it.

It's not the first time a commercial jet flying over a warzone has been shot down. Hell, we shot one down back in '88. It's happened a dozen times in the past 30 years. **** happens, it sucks.

[muscleserge]

Lazy Russian propaganda.





Su-25 is an air to ground support plane with a maximum altitude of 23,000 feet or 7km, less if its carrying missiles. The actual missiles can travel a long distance but have an IR guided 7kg warhead. For comparison, the warheads from the 2 missiles that took out Korean Airlines flight 007 were 40kg each and the plane still continued to fly for a bit in spite of taking a direct hit.











Look at the first three Cyrillic letters next to the 351.








Singapore 351 was flying north of that area around the same time, it left Copenhagen a half hour after MH-17 left Amsterdam. These radar screens are showing that flight rather than MH-17. Flightaware shows that it was cruising at around 35,000.








Russians are slipping in their propaganda game, used to be a lot more effective back in the Soviet era.

You should watch the press release before claiming bs off a screenshot of a whole presentation. Looks like its your games that needs a step up.

[Lakersbake]

God why do we even give a sh*t

Because stupid events like these can lead to wars.

See: Franz Ferdinand, Lusitania, Gulf of Tonkin.

[mrmister1]

Cliffs of the whole thing:


1- Plane is shot down.
2- US presents tweets and ******** post as "proof" that Russians did it.
3- sheep swallow it
4- Russia presents radar read outs, photos from satilite, and technical info saying Ukrainians did it.
5- sheep say: well, this isn't proof. We would like some legit proof like a tweet or a ******** post.

Majority of Americans will forever believe Putin fired down the plane. I actually heard a manager at Work state "the bad guys" in reference to the Rebels. I laughed, WTF is this a Hollywood film.

[tk217]

Majority of Americans will forever believe Putin fired down the plane. I actually heard a manager at Work state "the bad guys" in reference to the Rebels. I laughed, WTF is this a Hollywood film.

If it were hollywood it'd have more cgi

[hardestgainer]

I dont see how anyone believes what the US is telling us. From the start this has seemed a lot like a move for the US and UN to just start chit with Putin because he doesnt give a chit about them.

[flairon]

Because stupid events like these can lead to wars.

See: Franz Ferdinand, Lusitania, Gulf of Tonkin.

This isn't going to lead to war. Thew flew a commercial aircraft over an active warzone. Your lists were outright attacks and assasinations, this was just plain stupidity.

[nutsy54]

I dont see how anyone believes what the US is telling us. From the start this has seemed a lot like a move for the US and UN to just start chit with Putin because he doesnt give a chit about them.

Here's the problem with that conspiracy theory, ever since it was first claimed as the wreckage was still burning... The consistent LACK of any "chit started with Putin". As usual, Obama has been weak and ineffective, and this will go nowhere, no matter who actually shot the plane down.

[Zedbimmer]

Here's the problem with that conspiracy theory, since it was first claimed as the wreckage was still burning... The consistent LACK of any "chit started with Putin". As usual, Obama has been weak and ineffective, and this will go nowhere, no matter who actually shot the plane down.

explain this weakness everyone seems to speak of and why this is a US problem.

[nutsy54]

explain this weakness everyone seems to speak of and why this is a US problem.

I actually have to explain how Obama holds no respect in the world? He can't get a US Marine out of Mexican jail after being held on trumped-up charges. Hong Kong told him to f*ck off when we requested extradition of a man accused of espionage, while Putin turned around and gave that fugitive a safe place to hang out. Obama rattled his "I'll bomb anyone I want to" saber in Syria, while Putin calmly stepped in with a diplomatic solution.

Meanwhile, where did I say any of this is a "US problem"? That's the point, it's NOT - no matter what the Conspiracy Theorists want to claim.

[Jax05]

1) Russians sneak into Ukrainian territory and shoot down the plane
2) Ukraine gets blamed for it, sanctions in place, all the major countries stop trading with them
3) Russia decides to move into now weakened Ukraine
4)????
5) Call of Duty - Modern Warfare 4
6) Profit

[kusok]

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014...craig-roberts/


After this article and technical proof Russia presented lukelissen may jump off a bridge. Stay safe Luke. He hasn't been posting since this stuff came out. Either he wasnt yet given a new set of typical vomitous copy and pastes from the US government, or his mom took away his computer. Not sure which is true.

[MuzzieChik786]

^^ lol @ his mom.

Meanwhile, where did I say any of this is a "US problem"? That's the point, it's NOT - no matter what the Conspiracy Theorists want to claim.

Oh but they'll make it their business. Isn't that how it always goes? If not with this event, the next one. It'll get there, sooner or later.

[Zedbimmer]

I actually have to explain how Obama holds no respect in the world? He can't get a US Marine out of Mexican jail after being held on trumped-up charges. Hong Kong told him to f*ck off when we requested extradition of a man accused of espionage, while Putin turned around and gave that fugitive a safe place to hang out. Obama rattled his "I'll bomb anyone I want to" saber in Syria, while Putin calmly stepped in with a diplomatic solution.

Meanwhile, where did I say any of this is a "US problem"? That's the point, it's NOT - no matter what the Conspiracy Theorists want to claim.

Your explanation of weakness sounds more like school bully not being able to take lunch money or lunch from the other kids anymore. Every country has had to abide by laws governed for all, the US being weak because they now have to follow the rules says something.

[LukeLissen]

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014...craig-roberts/


After this article and technical proof Russia presented lukelissen may jump off a bridge. Stay safe Luke. He hasn't been posting since this stuff came out. Either he wasnt yet given a new set of typical vomitous copy and pastes from the US government, or his mom took away his computer. Not sure which is true.

GOOD!

You didnt state your official position on this in the other thread, but now you have! Thank you. I was hoping for that.

Take all the rope you want. It will be used against you(and the others as well) at this forum in the future...

[LukeLissen]

BTW, Russia did not release proof that Ukraine shot down the jet, which it did not, nor did it even claim that.

They released what they claim is possibly??? an Su-25 near the jet just after the missile impact. They should have said Su-27 as it would have fit their BS better but oh well. It is simply the lightweight debris from the aircraft drifting down. There was a ****load of lightweight debris in the sky slowly drifting including some caught on video. This reflects radar. Watch the video yourself. Its all right there. There is no 'military aircraft' on radar before the plane is hit. They released what they claim are some Buks nearby also.

Time is running out for your lies at this forum, Russians and pro-Russians. This will create the end of it. I will not let you live this down in future Ukraine threads at ths forum.

Anyone else want to take some rope?

Anyone else want to stake their claim on this issue while we are at?

Which of of you Russian and pro-Russian posters have the balls to put your name in the pot?

Come on, you can do it!



here ya go:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=KSpeo5RcQQo