Upright Rows vs Side laterals

**r6phantom** · 08-31-2003, 12:03 PM

Because you can stimulate the medial head with more weight on upright rows, does it make it better? This is following the logic that bench presses are better than flies, squat is better than leg extension, etc...

If you read my other post i am using bench, deadlift, squat, bbrow and chins in my hst routine. My delts are lagging and dont know which exercise i should focus on. And yes i know upright rows puts my rotator cuff in a vulerable position.

**amusclehead** · 08-31-2003, 12:06 PM

don't do upright rows if u value your shoulder's health

**A-rod** · 08-31-2003, 12:23 PM

I still prefer lateral raises over uprights because of the safety factors .......

**IronMike** · 08-31-2003, 12:23 PM

How about BB military presses and DB presses along with some laterals!

**scott_donald** · 08-31-2003, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by amusclehead
don't do upright rows if u value your shoulder's health

they are awful, side laterals all the way...

**scott_donald** · 08-31-2003, 12:58 PM

oops voted for the wrong one take one off upright rows and add one to the side laterals...

**chick_magnet** · 08-31-2003, 01:03 PM

i prefer side raises coz the angel is pretty simple i feel it workin on my shoulders, somehow it helps the chest aswell maybe a lil but it sure does. Upright gives me some pain and i find the angel to be really awkward, my 2 cents keep them or lose them

**Bignbuff** · 08-31-2003, 01:07 PM

Side lateral raises.

**r6phantom** · 08-31-2003, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by r6phantom
Because you can stimulate the medial head with more weight on upright rows, does it make it better? This is following the logic that bench presses are better than flies, squat is better than leg extension, etc...

can someone explain why isolation is better in this case? (other than rotator cuff)

**rich0331** · 08-31-2003, 02:09 PM

i do both, prefer upright rows though

**A-rod** · 08-31-2003, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by r6phantom
Because you can stimulate the medial head with more weight on upright rows, does it make it better? This is following the logic that bench presses are better than flies, squat is better than leg extension, etc...

If you read my other post i am using bench, deadlift, squat, bbrow and chins in my hst routine. My delts are lagging and dont know which exercise i should focus on. And yes i know upright rows puts my rotator cuff in a vulerable position.

Squats are better than leg ext , benches are better than flies and deads are superior to back extensions but i prefer side raises ONLY because of the injury potential , other than that i`d use the upright rows ALL THE WAY !

**midian** · 08-31-2003, 02:34 PM

Originally posted by r6phantom
can someone explain why isolation is better in this case? (other than rotator cuff)

it's plain and simply the injury factor: to hit the lateral head more you should take a wider gip on the Bb and the wider you grip on any pressing or most pulling movements (that involves your shoulders) you could get a major strain to the rotatorcs cuff

and i also think you could get a better rom with side laterals then with uprights + the form on some most people doing uprights is horrible they just swing the weight, side laterals with you back against a wall or something sturdy (like the +350 ibs guy

)

**Wanker527** · 08-31-2003, 02:42 PM

upright rows (when using a somewhat wide grip) feel kind of uncomfortable to me. most of the time i'll do side laterals, but every now and then i'll throw in a couple sets of upt rows just for kicks. i've done a high volume, low weight shock-style routine using upt rows, however, and it really made a difference in my medials. i did two sets of OH presses, two sets of rear laterals, and i think i did 7-8 sets of upt rows x6-8 reps (no failure on any exercise). i did this twice a week for two weeks...did wonders. i haven't done it since b/c of the safety issue that i became aware of AFTER i had done the routine. i took a week off to rest after that, and i wouldn't recommend it to anyone with any sort of shoulder problem whatsoever, in fact you'd probably get the same results with side laterals. much safer also...just thought i'd share anyway.

**rich0331** · 08-31-2003, 04:04 PM

wanker...in regards to your signature....NEVER!!!

**jhov** · 08-31-2003, 04:59 PM

we did a study on the upright rows ourself during my years studying physical therapy. the culprit in many a shoulder injury was upright rows but there are many other movements which do so as well for example bench presses, pullovers and dips just to name a few. the problem is that the shoulder is such a complex joint with such complex anatomy and fysiology. it isn�t the most flexible joint in the body for nothing. our conclusions at the time were simple do them meaning, upright rows, at your own risk!!!!. they put massive amounts of stress on the joint and slowly cause damage which make them even more dangerous. there are better movements for the shoulder and they are safer but if u would want to use them every now and then just to mix it up it should not be a problem. but they should not! be a staple movement by any means. i used them for a while and had good results and no problems but only briefly and then i switch to others
just mho
peace
j

**amusclehead** · 08-31-2003, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by Wanker527
upright rows (when using a somewhat wide grip) feel kind of uncomfortable to me. .

that is because they're doing more harm to you than good

**scott_donald** · 08-31-2003, 06:28 PM

Originally posted by amusclehead
that is because they're doing more harm to you than good

some people just dont listen to their bodies...

**Wanker527** · 08-31-2003, 08:03 PM

Originally posted by scott_donald
some people just dont listen to their bodies...

and others can't keep their mouth shut...

j/k

i've since corrected the problem

**Wanker527** · 08-31-2003, 08:06 PM

Originally posted by rich0331
wanker...in regards to your signature....NEVER!!!

ha ha

**EAE** · 08-31-2003, 08:36 PM

Has anyone tried using dumbells for uprights? I heard it's easier on the rotators but I don't know.

**LiL USMC BBer** · 08-31-2003, 08:42 PM

You know I do both......and I feel alot of burn in EVERYTHING when I do uprighr rows. I have a really narrow grip I'm tlaking hands maybe 3-4 inches apart at most. ANd I raise the bar up to just below my neck with a real slow motion and then bring it down.... slowly. Raise it back up and bring it down. Upright rows finish off my whole shoulder routine. I vote for upright rows. Never had a problemw with them...... *arm falls off....looks down and puts arm back on*

**amusclehead** · 08-31-2003, 09:19 PM

Originally posted by ReSpAwN DeMoN
Upright rows finish off my whole shoulder routine. I vote for upright rows. Never had a problemw with them...... *arm falls off....looks down and puts arm back on*

no offence, but typical noob arguement

sport doctor says

"Let�s begin with the Upright Row. Some people are going to be surprised by my criticism of this exercise since it is so commonly utilized. On any given day you can walk through most busy gyms in America and witness experienced bodybuilders doing multiple sets of Upright Rows to increase upper body strength. The exercise requires grabbing the bar with a tight grip. The palms of your hands should be facing you. As you pull the bar upward to chest level it is suggested that your elbows are kept high in the air. Let�s think this through. As you raise the bar off the floor up to chest level you are abducting the shoulder, which in and of itself is just fine. By maintaining a closed grip with palms (and thumbs) facing you, you have created internal shoulder rotation. As the bar is raised your shoulders are abducted and internally rotated, and that is a pinching combination.

Defenders of the Upright Row will report that they have been doing this exercise for months or years and have never injured themselves while doing it. It is important to understand that rotator cuff injuries are most often cumulative; they happen over time with repetition. As the soft tissue structures within the shoulder are pinched, they become chronically inflamed. Thus one can do a contraindicated exercise and not feel pain immediately afterward. Therefore it is sometimes difficult to associate the injury with the exercise that may have been the cause. That is why I recommend that you drop the Upright Row from your program.

"

and w/ just general body physiology knowledge, i would agree 100%. i did them for years w/o problems; however after reading and thinking about them i dropped them w/o a thought. far better and safer stuff to do

**Overload** · 08-31-2003, 09:52 PM

To each his own, but coming from a shoulder injury that sidelined me from lifting weights for over a year, I don't take chances now. Side laterals all the way! I've tried upright rows recently and it still causes me pain in the shoulder. Something about that movement. I can live without it.

**LiL USMC BBer** · 09-01-2003, 11:11 AM

ok ok ok!! but the upright rows are so much fun to do! Well....they are like my 3rd favorite excersize. They cause such burn and they hit practically everything!!

What else can I do for shoulders??

Shoulder Routine
Side Lateral Raises 3X6/8
Front DB Raises 3X6/8
DB Shoulder Presses 3X6/8
DB Shrugs 3X10
Upright Rows 3X6/8

I train shoulders on thursday while my chest/tri day is on monday...

**midian** · 09-01-2003, 11:57 AM

Originally posted by EAE
Has anyone tried using dumbells for uprights? I heard it's easier on the rotators but I don't know.

the weight would bounce against your chest, if you put them next to your body the stress on your RC would be terrible

on a side note, i think shoulders press above these two exercises

**RippedGuitarist** · 09-01-2003, 12:08 PM

Originally posted by ReSpAwN DeMoN
ok ok ok!! but the upright rows are so much fun to do! Well....they are like my 3rd favorite excersize. They cause such burn and they hit practically everything!!

What else can I do for shoulders??

Shoulder Routine
Side Lateral Raises 3X6/8
Front DB Raises 3X6/8
DB Shoulder Presses 3X6/8
DB Shrugs 3X10
Upright Rows 3X6/8

I train shoulders on thursday while my chest/tri day is on monday...

Well right now I'm doing 2 arm Side Laterals and 1 arm Side Laterals, you could try that.

**midian** · 09-01-2003, 12:16 PM

Originally posted by ReSpAwN DeMoN

Shoulder Routine
Side Lateral Raises 3X6/8
Front DB Raises 3X6/8
DB Shoulder Presses 3X6/8
DB Shrugs 3X10
Upright Rows 3X6/8

12 sets for shoulders ???? and 9 for the lateral head ??????????? man no offence but thar routine sucks, don't go over 6 sets for shoulders

drop front raises and choose between db presses or lateral raises and drop the uprights and for gods sake add something good for your front delt military press or something like that

or.....

drop that routine and do this

clean & jerk 2 sets
cuban press 2 sets

that should be enough

**LiL USMC BBer** · 09-01-2003, 01:02 PM

lol, I do db shoulder presses isn't that the same freakin thing as military press???

I'm gonna drop the uprights.

I don't train my rear delts because they get hit hard when I train my back. But why do I train my front delts? They get hit hard with chest work?

Side Lateral Raises 3X6/8
DB Shoulder Press 3X6/8
DB Shrugs 3X6/8

Plus chest and back days (monday for chest, friday for back, thursday for shoulders)

**midian** · 09-01-2003, 01:30 PM

Originally posted by ReSpAwN DeMoN
lol, I do db shoulder presses isn't that the same freakin thing as military press???

I'm gonna drop the uprights.

I don't train my rear delts because they get hit hard when I train my back. But why do I train my front delts? They get hit hard with chest work?

Side Lateral Raises 3X6/8
DB Shoulder Press 3X6/8
DB Shrugs 3X6/8

Plus chest and back days (monday for chest, friday for back, thursday for shoulders)

imo a shoulder press (starting from the shoulders) is lateral head training

arnold press is front delt training

and you did front raises what would be front delt training aswell

and seriously try these exercises for a change

push press
clean & jerk
cuban press

you will find they are superior by FAR over lateral raises, military, shoulder press, .....

**r6phantom** · 09-01-2003, 03:10 PM

hey thanks for the replies, it really helped me understand why uprights are harmful to the rotator cuff.

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