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  1. #1651
    fat arn710's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ShortDave View Post
    That reminds me of every person who does standing external rotation work with dumbbells, sure you're holding weight but you aren't doing anything for the muscles you're trying to target.
    Exactly what I was thinking of when I made my comment
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  2. #1652
    Barbell Babe ShortDave's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JamesG6626 View Post
    I didn't even know this was a thing. For what it's worth, she doesn't look to happy to be doing it either.
    People do this all the time, they figure that since people are doing with with cables or bands it will be the same with a dumbbell, they don't think about the direction of resistance at all.
    It'd be like staying fat while running marathons because it's more impressive to finish a marathon when you're overweight. It might be impressive in the short run, but in the long run it just doesn't make any sense. ~breathinglife

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  3. #1653
    Tyrannosaurus Press kmc06005's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ShortDave View Post
    People do this all the time, they figure that since people are doing with with cables or bands it will be the same with a dumbbell, they don't think about the direction of resistance at all.
    It reminds me of when people say that benching straight up off your chest is a shorter ROM to lockout instead of benching back to the hooks. The weight still moves the same distance against the force by which it is being pulled back to earth... Do you even gravity bruh?
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  4. #1654
    Barbell Babe ShortDave's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by kmc06005 View Post
    It reminds me of when people say that benching straight up off your chest is a shorter ROM to lockout instead of benching back to the hooks. The weight still moves the same distance against the force by which it is being pulled back to earth... Do you even gravity bruh?

    Uh oh, I've said that before, we may have to delve into this further. Are there any physicists in the house? Anybody?
    It'd be like staying fat while running marathons because it's more impressive to finish a marathon when you're overweight. It might be impressive in the short run, but in the long run it just doesn't make any sense. ~breathinglife

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  5. #1655
    Powerlifting Mod isaku900's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ShortDave View Post
    Uh oh, I've said that before, we may have to delve into this further. Are there any physicists in the house? Anybody?
    straight line is shorter distance traveled, especially if you're arched.

    towards the hooks is leverage advantaged due to the physiology of the upper body/shoulders.
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  6. #1656
    Because Kaz NorthStrong's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by kmc06005 View Post
    It reminds me of when people say that benching straight up off your chest is a shorter ROM to lockout instead of benching back to the hooks. The weight still moves the same distance against the force by which it is being pulled back to earth... Do you even gravity bruh?
    Originally Posted by ShortDave View Post
    Uh oh, I've said that before, we may have to delve into this further. Are there any physicists in the house? Anybody?
    Dan Green said same thing before too. But Louie Simmons says that bench shirts were invented in 1985 and are you still driving a car from 1985? So I don't know what to think anymore.
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  7. #1657
    Barbell Babe ShortDave's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by isaku900 View Post
    straight line is shorter distance traveled, especially if you're arched.

    towards the hooks is leverage advantaged due to the physiology of the upper body/shoulders.
    I would wager that this is an instance where personal leverages are going to come into play to determine which is the more beneficial press for each lifter.

    Originally Posted by NorthStrong View Post
    Dan Green said same thing before too. But Louie Simmons says that bench shirts were invented in 1985 and are you still driving a car from 1985? So I don't know what to think anymore.
    But Richard Simmons says that I can do it and that he believes in me.
    Last edited by ShortDave; 07-30-2014 at 11:33 AM. Reason: I sometimes suck at spelling
    It'd be like staying fat while running marathons because it's more impressive to finish a marathon when you're overweight. It might be impressive in the short run, but in the long run it just doesn't make any sense. ~breathinglife

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  8. #1658
    Tyrannosaurus Press kmc06005's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by isaku900 View Post
    straight line is shorter distance traveled, especially if you're arched.

    towards the hooks is leverage advantaged due to the physiology of the upper body/shoulders.
    Sounds right.

    The point is, I don't believe one is more difficult than the other, because you are still moving the bar the same distance against gravity. That's where the leverage advantages comes into play when picking a preference. I've always found it easier to push back to the hooks.


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  9. #1659
    Registered User JamesG6626's Avatar
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    Yeah physiology is going to be the most important factor regarding the best bar path. Just purely distance, straight line up is shortest. Force production, the only force working against gravity is upward force. If you're benching toward the hooks only the vertical vector component is moving weight. I bench toward the hooks though, maybe that's why my bench sucks lol..
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  10. #1660
    Powerlifting Mod isaku900's Avatar
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    ...benching in a straight line is a charicteristic of novices. Its bad. Unless you're in a denim bench shirt, in which case that's how those shirts work.



    benching towards your leverage advantage is better, and is a characteristic of experienced/strong benchers.
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  11. #1661
    Registered User zmcdole's Avatar
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    Here's my thoughts on benching with a straight line bar path/straight up and down: if you tuck your elbows even a little and then press straight up your arms are going to end up angling towards the end of the bench. I don't know about you guys, but I don't like doing a front raise while I'm benching. Now if you bench in a flared position then you can probably bench straight up and down without any problems.

    Oh and let's say your arms end up locked out in a vertical position, you will have used a ton of front delt and chest and very little tricep. Driving back towards the hooks gets your elbows under the bar to allow you to drive/punch through the bar to finish the lift.
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  12. #1662
    Tyrannosaurus Press kmc06005's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by isaku900 View Post
    ...benching in a straight line is a charicteristic of novices. Its bad. Unless you're in a denim bench shirt, in which case that's how those shirts work.



    benching towards your leverage advantage is better, and is a characteristic of experienced/strong benchers.
    I like that image. I think I've learned more about powerlifting in this fam thread than any of the others...
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  13. #1663
    4 touchdowns in one game FenderElectrics's Avatar
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    For correct bar path see my last meet vid at about the 2 minute mark. Even the spotter at the end shrugged and I think said "nice bar path" to someone

    Got red lighted for dipping 4 times or something but I don't buy that call

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  14. #1664
    IPF4LYFE arian11's Avatar
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    Trettin and I had this discussion of bench bar path the other day. I brought it up because Ben Esgro and Ryan Doris talk about how the best way to bench is straight line since it's the shortest bar path. But we both agreed that pressing back plays to your leverages, feels stronger and all the best benchers in the world do it.

    Originally Posted by FenderElectrics View Post
    For correct bar path see my last meet vid at about the 2 minute mark. Even the spotter at the end shrugged and I think said "nice bar path" to someone

    Got red lighted for dipping 4 times or something but I don't buy that call

    [youtube]1yIHIJsrnqk&list[youtube]
    There was definitely downward motion of the bar and the spotter touched it. No lift. But you can whine and blame the judges if you want.
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  15. #1665
    Registered User michael_xyz's Avatar
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    Read that eliteFTS article but yes, "J" bar path is the way forward unless you have a massive arch and wide as fuark grip. In that case, only way is straight I suppose, and even then probably a bit of a "J".

    It feels very natural though once it clicks. You tuck and flare and it feels very strong.
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  16. #1666
    Wall Just got 10ft Higher Mitch666's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by isaku900 View Post
    the thing with that is people vastly over or under estimate BF%, even the "big strong and lean guys" that are top lifters aren't *that* lean. Also, the thing most people who want to be sub 10% miss is the *BIG* part. Top lifters, even at light weightclasses are ****ing jacked.
    agree on all points.
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  17. #1667
    4 touchdowns in one game FenderElectrics's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by arian11 View Post

    There was definitely downward motion of the bar and the spotter touched it. No lift. But you can whine and blame the judges if you want.
    was joking, I clearly dipped 3-4 times lol
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  18. #1668
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    Originally Posted by Mitch666 View Post
    agree on all points.
    Well that settles it!
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  19. #1669
    Registered User CowardBrah's Avatar
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    Any cues on bar path then? Mine is always straight and my bench is terrible to say the least
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  20. #1670
    Registered User Jason2459's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CowardBrah View Post
    Any cues on bar path then? Mine is always straight and my bench is terrible to say the least
    Arched bencher with wide grip here. Straight up has always been my cue but let my bar path naturally curve in and never tried to correct it. I just don't want to flair to early and blow my load.
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  21. #1671
    Tyrannosaurus Press kmc06005's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by arian11 View Post
    There was definitely downward motion of the bar and the spotter touched it. No lift. But you can whine and blame the judges if you want.
    Do you even sarcasm bro?


    Edit: (obviously the following is all based on personal anecdotal evidence, and is in no way based on scientific studies)

    If you think about it, the bar is not touching on a totally flat surface, especially if you have an arch. So if you are trying to press perpendicular to the floor, you are fighting the bars natural motion as it comes off your chest. I feel like when pressing towards the hooks you are pushing with the natural momentum of the bar. It's obviously very miniscule, but when you are trying to be the best, the little things add up.

    Also, I've learned a lot about my best leverages while doing dead presses just off the chest. If I roll the bar down to where I touch, I can barely get it to move, but as I bring it back towards face the bar picks up speed. Doing dead presses also helped me pick my grip width.
    Last edited by kmc06005; 07-30-2014 at 01:02 PM.
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    Registered User runtocatch's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by kmc06005 View Post
    I like that image. I think I've learned more about powerlifting in this fam thread than any of the others...
    Ur welcome.

    Originally Posted by FenderElectrics View Post
    was joking, I clearly dipped 3-4 times lol
    nb4 arian so was I

  23. #1673
    Registered User UberAlles's Avatar
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    anyone see the latest training footage from brett gibbs? mind bottling to say the least


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    Because Kaz NorthStrong's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by UberAlles View Post
    anyone see the latest training footage from brett gibbs? mind bottling to say the least

    if joking - lol

    if not - it's boggling.
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    Originally Posted by CooCooCaChoo View Post
    Anybody ever paid for training through Bryce Lewis? I know in general I'm weak and can make gains off of pretty much any program so paying for one would be a bit pointless. Just curious how much he charges in comparison to Mike T. who charges $100+ a month.
    Regardless of the level you are at, if you have the disposable income, I would recommend hiring a coach for your training and/or nutrition. You can learn a lot by listening to the coach and apply it going forward. Sure, the internet has the same resources, but it also has bad information and the ability to make your path wander through over analysis.

    The other thing, I really don't like the thought of hiring a coach for 12 weeks or what ever. Any coach can make you appear stronger through giving you a peaking cycle. Commit to one for a year or two and see how it goes. If you cannot find a coach at a price that you could commit to for that length of time, I would not do it.
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    Barbell Babe ShortDave's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CooCooCaChoo View Post
    Anybody ever paid for training through Bryce Lewis? I know in general I'm weak and can make gains off of pretty much any program so paying for one would be a bit pointless. Just curious how much he charges in comparison to Mike T. who charges $100+ a month.
    I would talk to NorthStrong, he trained with Doolas and had some pretty decent results. Also I am pretty sure Doolas has very reasonable rates with a lot of communication between the client and himself
    It'd be like staying fat while running marathons because it's more impressive to finish a marathon when you're overweight. It might be impressive in the short run, but in the long run it just doesn't make any sense. ~breathinglife

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  27. #1677
    powerlifting and stuff Big.Jazayrli's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CooCooCaChoo View Post
    Anybody ever paid for training through Bryce Lewis? I know in general I'm weak and can make gains off of pretty much any program so paying for one would be a bit pointless. Just curious how much he charges in comparison to Mike T. who charges $100+ a month.
    We (TSA) charge less, but Mike T is definitely one of the best in the industry - I'm actually waiting on a list to give that dude my $$$
    Last edited by Big.Jazayrli; 07-30-2014 at 03:20 PM.
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  28. #1678
    Registered User brudman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CooCooCaChoo View Post
    Anybody ever paid for training through Bryce Lewis? I know in general I'm weak and can make gains off of pretty much any program so paying for one would be a bit pointless. Just curious how much he charges in comparison to Mike T. who charges $100+ a month.
    I paid for his coaching the 10 weeks leading up to nationals. He charges around the same as Mike T from what I gather about what Mike T charges.

    I would say, and this is for me personally, that his input on a weekly basis on my technique and my nutrition was far more valuable than the program itself. I did set PR's and am confident in his programming and everything, but there is just more to it than that.

    As a testimonial, I am signing up again for offseason coaching and for a December meet. Having a sounding board vs. making decisions in a vacuum is huge for me. I do have access to a good powerlifting gym as well, but I normally work 70-80 hour weeks, so to accomodate my schedule I have to train at 4:30am and don't get to see those guys much. That's where the value comes in. Think about it - if you were a baseball player and could talk to Troy Tulowitzki about your hitting every week, it would be well worth $100/mo.

    I would also say that even if you only hire him (or any other coach) for 10-12 weeks, that can set you in a new direction that is worth far more than the price of admission. I learned so much over those 10 weeks that if I programmed myself and coached myself for 1-2 years I would probably be in a pretty good place. Just dip your toe in if you have the dough.

  29. #1679
    Registered User brudman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Big.Jazayrli View Post
    We (TSA) charge less, but Mike T is definitely one of the best in the industry - I'm actually waiting on a list to give that dude my $$$

    Now, if you wanna talk DUP-specialized coaches.. I can tell you about some unreasonable pricing.
    Out of curiosity I reached out to said "DUP Specialist", and I can agree for programming he is very expensive, but if you want to take a shot at it yourself and just talk training with him he'll do it. He (Dr. Zourdos) is a really approachable guy and was willing to just talk shop with me.

  30. #1680
    powerlifting and stuff Big.Jazayrli's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by brudman View Post
    Out of curiosity I reached out to said "DUP Specialist", and I can agree for programming he is very expensive, but if you want to take a shot at it yourself and just talk training with him he'll do it. He (Dr. Zourdos) is a really approachable guy and was willing to just talk shop with me.
    I never said who I was talking about, for one. And it actually wasn't Dr. Zourdos. He strikes me as a stand up guy and did offer to give me some help.

    I'm sure I could probably program it myself but I'm a big fan of having someone handle that stuff for me.
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