Do you know anyone who has an impressive physique but does not eat a high protein diet? There has been no recorded advantage of eating more than 0.64 grams of protein per pound of body weight.
|
-
07-14-2014, 01:08 AM #1
-
07-14-2014, 01:13 AM #2
The article you're quoting is slightly outdated. In the mean time there have been studies that have found advantages of eating more, see: http://www.jissn.com/content/11/1/20
Not that you won't gain muscle at 0.5. Especially during bulking I expect you'll do just fine, just not optimal.
-
07-14-2014, 01:17 AM #3
-
07-14-2014, 02:56 AM #4
-
-
07-14-2014, 06:45 AM #5No brain, no gain.
"The fitness and nutrition world is a breeding ground for obsessive-compulsive behavior. The irony is that many of the things people worry about have no impact on results either way, and therefore aren't worth an ounce of concern."--Alan Aragon
Where the mind goes, the body follows.
Ironwill Gym:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=629719403&postcount=3388
Ironwill2008 Journal:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=157459343&p=1145168733
-
07-14-2014, 08:30 AM #6
-
07-14-2014, 08:37 AM #7
-
07-14-2014, 08:40 AM #8
-
-
07-14-2014, 09:23 AM #9
-
07-14-2014, 11:11 AM #10
you would likely build muscle but at such a slower rate than eating at least .82-1g per pound of bodyweight
-Bears- -Blackhawks- -Bulls- -Whitesox-
2015 NXT WBG Gold Medalist---- 2015 WWE WBG Bronze Medalist
#1 in the World for Modern Warfare 3 in Demolition
Former Halo 3 Pro Gamer
#1 In class in High School
NO Count Crew
-
07-14-2014, 11:48 AM #11
Yep. I've read all of it.
I don't see the point in trying to find out what the lower limit might be when I know by experience (both my own and others') that a gram/pound works very well.
Again, a natty guy into serious contest prep would probably do well to stretch that to maybe 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 gm/pound.No brain, no gain.
"The fitness and nutrition world is a breeding ground for obsessive-compulsive behavior. The irony is that many of the things people worry about have no impact on results either way, and therefore aren't worth an ounce of concern."--Alan Aragon
Where the mind goes, the body follows.
Ironwill Gym:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=629719403&postcount=3388
Ironwill2008 Journal:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=157459343&p=1145168733
-
07-14-2014, 01:32 PM #12
- Join Date: Jul 2010
- Location: Texas, United States
- Age: 61
- Posts: 4,703
- Rep Power: 4634
To answer your question, yes the body can and will build muscle in response to RE stimuli on that amount of protein, especially high quality protein sources. However as stated in this thread, it may not be optimal, but that wasn't your question.
There are many vegan and vegetarians who have good physiques on what is considered low amounts compared to others. If one is engaging in competitive bodybuilding then they wouldn't consider that low of an amount to begin with. If somewhat wants to lift weights and have a nice build, it can work fine. I know one lifter who has kidney cancer so one was removed and his daily amount of protein is very low due to his disease, he is quite muscular and not young. Hope that helps!
-
-
07-14-2014, 02:44 PM #13
-
07-14-2014, 03:33 PM #14
^^^^ This.
And based on some of the stuff I see posted in this forum every day, I'm not sure some posters can handle the mathematics required to figure the '.6-to-.8 gms per pound bw' that's commonly touted for protein intake. A nice, round multiplier of "1" is probably a little easier to figure for some posters.No brain, no gain.
"The fitness and nutrition world is a breeding ground for obsessive-compulsive behavior. The irony is that many of the things people worry about have no impact on results either way, and therefore aren't worth an ounce of concern."--Alan Aragon
Where the mind goes, the body follows.
Ironwill Gym:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=629719403&postcount=3388
Ironwill2008 Journal:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=157459343&p=1145168733
-
07-14-2014, 03:44 PM #15
-
07-14-2014, 03:45 PM #16
-
-
07-14-2014, 06:10 PM #17
-
07-14-2014, 06:41 PM #18
While I agree whole heartledly, It is to my understanding that most people worry about the minimums because protein rich foods tend to be more expensive, speaking from experience before I got In my current financial position, I was working part time and going to school I found getting protein for relatively cheap to be extremely hard while shopping on a budget.
-
07-14-2014, 08:33 PM #19
- Join Date: Jul 2013
- Location: Pennsylvania, United States
- Age: 34
- Posts: 874
- Rep Power: 523
1. Bodybuilders usually workout 5+ times a week, sometimes twice a day so their muscles could use the extra protein.
2. Bodybuilders are typically at a lower body fat percentage than the average gym goer, meaning they are at a higher risk of losing muscle mass while in a caloric deficit and so the higher protein may benefit them.
3. Bodybuilders are typically at a lower body fat percentage than the average gym goer, and so 1g/lb of bodyweight for them is very different than 1g/lb of bodyweight for a person at the same weight but with a higher body fat percentage. Aside from the bodybuilder's higher risk of losing muscle (while in a caloric deficit), the bodybuilder has more protein eating muscle even though the two people weigh the same. This is why I recommend 1g/lb of lean body mass for people higher than 20% bodyfat, or .8g/lb of bodyweight if you're at a moderate bf%.
4. Bodybuilders have years of experience meaning their gains would come slower, so the extra protein may benefit them.
5. Why tip the odds in favor of the supplement and meat industry based off of biased and unproven claims. With all do respect, who the cares what bodybuilders are eating anyway, they're sponsored by the supplement industry and paid to say one thing or another.
6. How can people swear by 1g/lb of bodyweight when it's very unlikely that they themselves have experimented with different protein levels ceteris paribus...all else equal. Were you on the same weightlifting program, were you eating at the same surplus, and was your weight and bf% the same? I highly doubt it.
7. "It can't hurt if you eat more", is the silliest argument in favor of eating more protein. If you're going to eat more protein then do it because you like to eat it. Why base your diet and fitness off of a fallacy created by people who bend facts and are interested in perpetuating this bias for their own benefit. Do some research and make up your mind yourself, and remember that most of these studies use professional bodybuilders, or elite athletes who probably tax their muscles a lot more than we do. No one's asking you how much YOU like to eat protein, most of these threads are from beginners who are more than likely going to go out and buy some protein powder.Last edited by Caezar07; 07-14-2014 at 08:39 PM.
Row from the floor.
Eat the damned yolk.
"When I see a program that says three sets of eight reps? That's the stupidest f****** thing ever. If it doesn't have a specific percentage based on a specific max, it's useless." -Jim Wendler
-
07-14-2014, 08:59 PM #20
I agree that protein intake should be based off the food you like to eat, not really a number that some you read on a bodybuilding forum. There is no magic number, there is simply a minimum that you need to be healthy, and some scientific evidence that athletes benefit from increased protein intake. Beyond this point I have never understood why people decide to shoot for any macro amount per day instead of just overall calories. It's silly.
You also have to understand that the entire bodybuilding industry is supported by supplement companies. Without stuff to sell it would not be a big industry. No mainstream organization or individual affiliated with bodybuilding is going to tell you the truth about protein because if the perception about protein changed they lose $$$.
-
-
07-14-2014, 10:45 PM #21
When he mentioned bodybuilders, I'm pretty sure he wasn't just talking about pros (and/or just pros/ppl on juice). Check plenty of logs here, several recreational lifters/bber's workout 5x a week.
Not even pro bodybuilders are in a caloric deficit most of the time. A lot go through bulk/cut/contest prep cycles somewhat similar to the average recreational person. Also, this is why plenty speak of LBM and not total weight.
No one mentioned supplements. As a matter of fact, a lot of people mentioned steak and whole foods. Also, minus the outliers, the difference between 0.8g/lb and 1g/lb is not grotesque. For a lot of people, you're talking 20, 30, 40g etc protein. Not groundbreaking by any means.
I would say that's a false assumption at best.
No one's saying do it because you like it, or more always = better, we're saying why try to get by on the absolute minimum when going for the maximum gain? Outside of financial reasons (and again for most people, we're not talking an additional 100g protein, we're talking miniscule numbers), it just doesn't much make sense.
Several variables such as differences in individual digestion, different absorption rates of various proteins, etc. all affect how much ingested protein you're body uses and varies by person and diet, so again, why make that your target? If people want, to each his or her own, but it just doesn't seem to make the most sense.
I guess most people should also try bulking with the minimum possible calories with hope for maximum gain? 200 cal daily surplus could theoretically get you around near max potential muscle gain/week inclusive of fat gain... but there's a reason most (including well seasoned) people aim just a bit higher (350 or so) for periods that are specifically to maximize gains (not talking about recomps), for several obvious reasons. Again, doesn't mean you jump up to 700cals a day, but it means there's logic behind a small cushion. Yes, I know calorie surpluses and protein needs are not one in the same, but I'm just showing similar thoughts of reasoning, scientific and not.
At the end of the day, you take the science, the anecdotal evidence, and you're own experience to form your perspective. No one came in and said, you must get this--we said this is what we've experienced, seen and do. To each, his or her own.Last edited by Slow-N-Steady; 07-14-2014 at 11:07 PM.
My Training Journal: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=120696121
-
07-15-2014, 06:12 AM #22
- Join Date: Jul 2013
- Location: Pennsylvania, United States
- Age: 34
- Posts: 874
- Rep Power: 523
Noone in this thread did.
No one mentioned supplements. As a matter of fact, a lot of people mentioned steak and whole foods. Also, minus the outliers, the difference between 0.8g/lb and 1g/lb is not grotesque. For a lot of people, you're talking 20, 30, 40g etc protein. Not groundbreaking by any means.
No one's saying do it because you like it, or more always = better, we're saying why try to get by on the absolute minimum when going for the maximum gain?
When people (usually beginners) ask how much protein they need, why perpetuate a misconception when something else can be recommended that's backed by science and more than adequate? A simple question deserves a simple answer without being skewed by misguided notions. If anything, why not let people decide for themselves if they want to "play it safe" and eat more than .8g/lb rather than recommend 1g+/lb from the getgo. Your whole arguement is still along the same old "why not" or "it can't hurt to eat more" line of thinking.Last edited by Caezar07; 07-15-2014 at 06:27 AM.
Row from the floor.
Eat the damned yolk.
"When I see a program that says three sets of eight reps? That's the stupidest f****** thing ever. If it doesn't have a specific percentage based on a specific max, it's useless." -Jim Wendler
-
07-15-2014, 06:13 AM #23
-
07-15-2014, 06:39 AM #24
You keep talking about the "average joe lifter", but I would caution that many of the people here lift 4-5 times a week (and some upward of that). But what do you think separates the average individual from a body builder? I would say that you're using definitions that may or may not apply to the anecdotal evidence you received above (many of the posts above were written by people who would not qualify as an average joe lifter).
I would say that because of this, your logic is somewhat invalid. A minimum has not yet been established for "elite body builders."
Surely, there's nothing wrong with .5-.8g of protein per pound of body weight. But that is a daily minimum. You can feel free to consume more, as there is nothing wrong with that.
EDIT: But to answer the question given by OP. Yes, you can build muscle. There's nothing wrong with .5g of protein per pound of body weight, but just consuming the daily minimum is not optimal. The daily minimum is not a number that you should hit, but a number that you should consume above if possible.Last edited by TypeNirvash; 07-15-2014 at 06:46 AM.
-
-
07-15-2014, 07:06 AM #25No brain, no gain.
"The fitness and nutrition world is a breeding ground for obsessive-compulsive behavior. The irony is that many of the things people worry about have no impact on results either way, and therefore aren't worth an ounce of concern."--Alan Aragon
Where the mind goes, the body follows.
Ironwill Gym:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=629719403&postcount=3388
Ironwill2008 Journal:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=157459343&p=1145168733
-
07-15-2014, 08:01 AM #26
- Join Date: Jul 2013
- Location: Pennsylvania, United States
- Age: 34
- Posts: 874
- Rep Power: 523
It could be opinion that you like to eat steak rather than potatoes. It's your opinion that maybe you like grilled chicken better than brown rice. But no, science cannot be your opinion, and if someone asked about something science based, it'd be much better to give science than spout off your opinion which is actually directly contradicting science.
Row from the floor.
Eat the damned yolk.
"When I see a program that says three sets of eight reps? That's the stupidest f****** thing ever. If it doesn't have a specific percentage based on a specific max, it's useless." -Jim Wendler
-
07-15-2014, 08:11 AM #27
You need to slow your role, there is no exact in nutritional science and information is always changing.
I would like you to tell Dr Layne Norton, Lyle McDonald and Alan Aragon that there is "no opinion" in science based nutrition, as these 3 highly intelligent and educated indvidiuals share different opinions on certain aspects of nutritional science.
-
07-15-2014, 08:15 AM #28
>.>
You should probably re-read this. He inferred that it it might be a good idea to consume more protein. And there is nothing wrong with that. Your daily minimum for protein intake is just that, a daily minimum.
Min·i·mum
noun
1.
the least or smallest amount or quantity possible, attainable, or required.
This. As intelligent as you seem, you'd do well to read a little more about the subject, Ceazar.
-
-
07-15-2014, 08:28 AM #29
Again, an entirely false assumption. I myself have, and have talked about it here in the past. Several others have as well, just as they've documented changes in other variables while holding remaining variables constant.
What are you talking about with these odds of the supplement industry??? That has nothing to inherently do with this topic. You are the only one in this entire thread mentioning protein supplements lol.
And to respond to the last part, no one suggesting eathing something you don't want to. There's hundreds of protein sources--eat what you like.
That's just false. .6g/lb would generally be close to bare minimum standard for ANY lifter looking to maximize muscle gain. And also, I never said 1g/lb is bare minimum, I said it's adequate--optimal even.
Unfortunately, your logic is misconstrued and seems to rely primarily on the premise of "not letting the supplement industry win"--which has absolutely nothing to do with this thread. Also, your understanding and application of "science" is erronous at best. There are no absolutes and research and it's understanding changes over time.
There are no misguided notions or skewed recommendations in this thread. No one's suggesting absurd amounts of protein intake. Logically it's pretty simple, why aim for absolute minimum protein intake when aiming for absolute maximum muscle gain?My Training Journal: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=120696121
-
07-15-2014, 08:28 AM #30
- Join Date: Jul 2013
- Location: Pennsylvania, United States
- Age: 34
- Posts: 874
- Rep Power: 523
Thanks for clarifying that. All I gave OP was an unbiased, science supported "minimum".
And also, I never said 1g/lb is bare minimum, I said it's adequate--optimal even.
For all we know, OP is 5' 10" 250lbs and sitting at 35% bodyfat. In that case, would you seriously recommend that he eat 250g of protein daily? No one in this thread had mentioned LBM before I did. But yet, i am being attacked for giving a more complete answer to his question.
Where is wonderpug when you need him?Last edited by Caezar07; 07-15-2014 at 08:34 AM.
Row from the floor.
Eat the damned yolk.
"When I see a program that says three sets of eight reps? That's the stupidest f****** thing ever. If it doesn't have a specific percentage based on a specific max, it's useless." -Jim Wendler
Similar Threads
-
protein: ~1-1.8g per kg or per _pound_?
By UKstudent in forum NutritionReplies: 6Last Post: 05-05-2013, 06:33 PM -
so i guess 1 gram per pound is wrong
By commanderfreak in forum SupplementsReplies: 52Last Post: 10-05-2007, 12:22 PM -
What is the best way to get 200g of protien a day? How do you do it?
By shifty in forum SupplementsReplies: 45Last Post: 04-20-2002, 06:06 PM -
Protein NOT that important?? (read this)
By Jacob18 in forum Teen BodybuildingReplies: 20Last Post: 02-10-2002, 04:48 PM
Bookmarks