Kelei Routines/Advice

[TheWickerman]

anyone here skip deload weeks, shorten them, or at least take them ONLY when you feel you personally need? i do not work a physically demanding job and to be honest i never feel the need to deload for an entire week. is it really a necessary thing to follow the guidnelines? personally i feel i could go at least 12 weeks without a deload, and the idea of taking 2 weeks off after 6 on seems absurd. i guess im just thinking if we are acclimating ourselves to 6 days a week of training w such high volume and the goal is to adapt to higher volume and frequency, it seems taking 3 days off should be plenty sufficient to deload.

[xxx_jfb_xxx]

anyone here skip deload weeks, shorten them, or at least take them ONLY when you feel you personally need? i do not work a physically demanding job and to be honest i never feel the need to deload for an entire week. is it really a necessary thing to follow the guidnelines? personally i feel i could go at least 12 weeks without a deload, and the idea of taking 2 weeks off after 6 on seems absurd. i guess im just thinking if we are acclimating ourselves to 6 days a week of training w such high volume and the goal is to adapt to higher volume and frequency, it seems taking 3 days off should be plenty sufficient to deload.

I take them when I feel like it, except my problem is I can never deload so I actually take a week off from weight training.

If you've been doing it long enough and listen to your body, I think a more advanced weight trainer would be able to tell when they need to deload I.E. joint pain, exhaustion, ect.

I've taken 1 week off total in 2014 and skipped maybe 2 to 3 workout sessions on top of that. I haven't taken a break nor do I feel like I need to but I think I will know when the time comes. Hopefully this helps.

I'll add on that I also don't have a physically demanding job (I work at a desk). I think that definitely plays into it a lot.

[ThatOneLurker]

I take them after 18-21 sessions. Does wonders for my mental energy.

[klaximilian]

Currently on 24 straight days, no deload. I'm taking a deload when July is over. Its going to feel great.

[Corpsez]

anyone here skip deload weeks, shorten them, or at least take them ONLY when you feel you personally need? i do not work a physically demanding job and to be honest i never feel the need to deload for an entire week. is it really a necessary thing to follow the guidnelines? personally i feel i could go at least 12 weeks without a deload, and the idea of taking 2 weeks off after 6 on seems absurd. i guess im just thinking if we are acclimating ourselves to 6 days a week of training w such high volume and the goal is to adapt to higher volume and frequency, it seems taking 3 days off should be plenty sufficient to deload.

I usually start to feel the wear and tear on my joints/tendons around the end of week 2. After week 3 my body is exhausted. I can't wait for my deload session. This is all during a cut though, and it may be different when I am bulking.

[Rizzo23601]

I train from Monday to Friday and take the weekends off. For deload, I just take four days off every three weeks (i.e. saturday, sunday, monday, tuesday). One week was too long, and just doing the first set of every exercise wasnt worth the trip to the gym for me (and not really fun at all).

[GeorgesSaadeh20]

Kelei's saying to lift as fast as possible but what about mind muscle connection? I cant focus on the muscle im working if i lift fast

And i have a problem with mind muscle connection, im obsessed with that thing. I'm always at the same weights and my progress is very slow just because i want form and mmc to be perfect and that's holding me back a lot

I always say to myself, okay i'll move the weight up when my form and mmc is 100%, even if i got 12 reps, and i end up going down with weights to get better contraction

[dojsygo]

Kelei, what is your toughts on HMB supplement?

[standalj]

Kelei, what is your toughts on HMB supplement?

Boy that used to be pretty popular years ago. I'd be curious to know as well.

[ctprelude]

Kelei's saying to lift as fast as possible but what about mind muscle connection? I cant focus on the muscle im working if i lift fast

And i have a problem with mind muscle connection, im obsessed with that thing. I'm always at the same weights and my progress is very slow just because i want form and mmc to be perfect and that's holding me back a lot

I always say to myself, okay i'll move the weight up when my form and mmc is 100%, even if i got 12 reps, and i end up going down with weights to get better contraction

Stop thinking about it and just go hard. As long as you're keeping solid form, and you're continuing to progress on adding weight, you're going to get bigger. This is also obviously assuming you're eating enough.

[klaximilian]

Kelei, what is your toughts on HMB supplement?

If we're asking supplement questions, I'd like to know what his thoughts on ARA are.

[Kelei]

Kelei, what is your toughts on HMB supplement?

Practically useless if your diet already contains plenty of leucine. I always get a lot of messages asking about post workout shakes so perhaps I should talk about it here.

Firstly I don't believe in "post workout" shakes, I think it's better to start drinking as your workout begins and to sip on your shake throughout your workout, you should be finishing the last few sips of your shake as your workout is ending.

As for the actual shake itself I like milk, whey protein isolate (I buy the pure powder), dextrose, cocoa powder and creatine monohydrate, it needs to be mixed in a blender (a shaker bottle just won't cut it). If your shake includes 30+ grams of whey protein isolate and is mixed in milk I think adding extra BCAA/leucine is a waste of time/money.

If we're asking supplement questions, I'd like to know what his thoughts on ARA are.

You can get enough arachidonic acid from eggs/meat.

I recommend dairy products, meat and eggs as the protein staples of your diet for good reason, they contain high quality protein (especially BCAA/leucine), arachidonic acid, cholesterol, saturated fat and even creatine (in meat), all important ingredients for building muscle/strength.

[klaximilian]

Practicaly useless if your diet already contains plenty of leucine. I always get a lot of messages asking about post workout shakes so perhaps I should talk about it here.

Firstly I don't believe in "post workout" shakes, I think it's better to start drinking as your workout begins and to sip on your shake throughout your workout, you should be finishing the last few sips of your shake as your workout is ending.

As for the actual shake itself I like milk, whey protein isolate (I buy the pure powder), dextrose, cocoa powder and creatine monohydrate, it needs to be mixed in a blender (a shaker bottle just won't cut it). If your shake includes 30+ grams of whey protein isolate and is mixed in milk I think adding extra BCAA/leucine is a waste of time/money.

You can get enough arachidonic acid from eggs/meat.

I recommend dairy products, meat and eggs as the protein staples of your diet for good reason, they contain high quality protein (especially BCAA/leucine), arachidonic acid, cholesterol, saturated fat and even creatine (in meat), all important ingredients for building muscle/strength.

As always, thank you Kelei.

[Kelei]

Plateaus are usually caused by weight/nutrition issues, for example if you're currently sitting at 10% BF or less you're simply not going to be able to add more muscle to your frame without allowing your overall scale weight to increase. If you've been stuck at 170 pounds with 10% BF for quite a while going nowhere then it's time to eat your way up to 175 and then spend some time recomping until you find yourself sitting at 175 with 10% BF, then repeat the process again by eating your way up to 180 etc. This is the simplest way of gradually adding BW without allowing your BF% to get out of control, you simply need patience.

The most common nutrition mistakes I see people make are:

- Not eating enough high quality protein
- Not eating enough saturated fat
- Not eating enough cholesterol
- Not eating enough arachidonic acid
- Not eating enough carbohydrate to replenish glycogen stores between workouts (I'll talk more about this below)

You need to make sure you've got those 5 covered or else you'll be leaving progress in the tank. I didn't feel the need to include not eating enough calories overall because that's directly related to what I spoke about above.

In order to replenish muscle glycogen stores you need carbohydrate that provides glucose rather than fructose/galactose, reason being that fructose and galactose can only replenish liver glycogen stores whereas glucose can replenish both muscle and liver glycogen stores. This doesn't mean you need to avoid fructose/galactose entirely, it simply means you should give more preference to glucose. Just for quick reference:

Sucrose = half glucose, half fructose
Lactose = half glucose, half galactose
Starch = glucose
Dextrose = fancy name for pure glucose powder
HFCS = fructose and glucose, exact ratio varies

Most of the classic bodybuilding carbohydrate sources are starch, for example rice, potatoes, bread, pasta.

[UTfootball747]

If you can only go 3 times a week, it's not going to matter if you space it out or bust it out in 3 days, as your weekly volume will be the same. Only reason one might be better is if you'd be more likely to slack off more one way or the other. If I had to choose, I'd go MWF just for the sole fact that it wouldn't feel like forever between lifting. And no, rest days aren't a necessity, but it's something that will vary person to person, so just listen to your body and take a day or two off if you tweak something, get sick, etc.

So then the [overwhelming] conventional wisdom that rest is needed is just bunk? I can see doing a split routine 5-6 days a week because it would seem like you're not necessarily hitting the same muscles every single day. But a whole body routine 5 days a week? I guess I've never tried it, so why not...

[xxx_jfb_xxx]

Kelei's saying to lift as fast as possible but what about mind muscle connection? I cant focus on the muscle im working if i lift fast

And i have a problem with mind muscle connection, im obsessed with that thing. I'm always at the same weights and my progress is very slow just because i want form and mmc to be perfect and that's holding me back a lot

I always say to myself, okay i'll move the weight up when my form and mmc is 100%, even if i got 12 reps, and i end up going down with weights to get better contraction

I'm the same way. I honestly have no idea what is the best for hypertrophy. Some people say lift heavy and others say lift strict. I'd say if you're seeing results keep doing what you're doing. If you're not, you should probably try the other way. I also think it doesn't hurt to implement both but that's just a personal opinion.

Plateaus are usually caused by weight/nutrition issues, for example if you're currently sitting at 10% BF or less you're simply not going to be able to add more muscle to your frame without allowing your overall scale weight to increase. If you've been stuck at 170 pounds with 10% BF for quite a while going nowhere then it's time to eat your way up to 175 and then spend some time recomping until you find yourself sitting at 175 with 10% BF, then repeat the process again by eating your way up to 180 etc. This is the simplest way of gradually adding BW without allowing your BF% to get out of control, you simply need patience.

The most common nutrition mistakes I see people make are:

- Not eating enough high quality protein
- Not eating enough saturated fat
- Not eating enough cholesterol
- Not eating enough arachidonic acid
- Not eating enough complex carbohydrate to replenish glycogen stores between workouts

You need to make sure you've got those 5 covered or else you'll be leaving progress in the tank. I didn't feel the need to include not eating enough calories overall because that's directly related to what I spoke about above.

Funny you should mention all these things because I was stuck just a couple weeks ago for months at about the same weight, dieting extremely low calories (2000 or even less), exhausted and couldn't get below 210 lbs. Changed my diet around and I'm getting all the things you just mentioned. I look like I'm on steroids in comparison to what I was doing. Truly the best advice I have read on these forums in a long time. Thank you for confirming my personal anecdote.

[xxx_jfb_xxx]

So then the [overwhelming] conventional wisdom that rest is needed is just bunk? I can see doing a split routine 5-6 days a week because it would seem like you're not necessarily hitting the same muscles every single day. But a whole body routine 5 days a week? I guess I've never tried it, so why not...

Why not just do an upper body/lower body split?

[ind1111]

So technically speaking a recomp is better than a bulk? Say a 300-500 window of calories above maintenance.
I'm 160 now, so I should recomp until I stall, add some weight, rinse and repeat?

I think I'm about 12-15% BF, very little muscle mass, should I still cut?

[Effrum]

So then the [overwhelming] conventional wisdom that rest is needed is just bunk? I can see doing a split routine 5-6 days a week because it would seem like you're not necessarily hitting the same muscles every single day. But a whole body routine 5 days a week? I guess I've never tried it, so why not...

I've been doing full body 6 days a week for the past 7 months (although I did take 2 months off for an injury that was due to poor form, not the routine). Your muscles can adjust to whatever workload you give them, as long as you give them the time (it might take a week or 2). Just make sure you deload every 3 weeks so that your joints and tendons can get a rest.

As long as your diet is in check and you get enough sleep, you can work out 7 days a week if you wanted, the idea that you HAVE to have a rest day is bunk. You just need to have regular deloads so that the parts of your body that don't adjust as quickly (tendons and joints) get a break. It's also a nice mental refresher.

So technically speaking a recomp is better than a bulk? Say a 300-500 window of calories above maintenance.
I'm 160 now, so I should recomp until I stall, add some weight, rinse and repeat?

I think I'm about 12-15% BF, very little muscle mass, should I still cut?

Ultimately they're the same thing, it's just that instead of bulking for 3 months and then cutting for 3 months afterwards, you're holding your weight steady for 6 months. You'll end up in the same place, but recomping doesn't "show" it's results as quickly.

Also, IMO just focus on getting stronger, as long as your BW and BF aren't exploding out of control.

[Kelei]

So then the [overwhelming] conventional wisdom that rest is needed is just bunk? I can see doing a split routine 5-6 days a week because it would seem like you're not necessarily hitting the same muscles every single day. But a whole body routine 5 days a week? I guess I've never tried it, so why not...

Weekly volume is what matters most, not volume per session. Compare the following:

- 12 sets per session, 1 session per week
- 6 sets per session, 2 sessions per week
- 4 sets per session, 3 sessions per week
- 3 sets per session, 4 sessions per week
- 2 sets per session, 6 sessions per week

Training frequency varies wildly (1-6 sessions per week) but the weekly volume remains the same (12 sets per week).

[davo26]

Practically useless if your diet already contains plenty of leucine. I always get a lot of messages asking about post workout shakes so perhaps I should talk about it here.

Firstly I don't believe in "post workout" shakes, I think it's better to start drinking as your workout begins and to sip on your shake throughout your workout, you should be finishing the last few sips of your shake as your workout is ending.

As for the actual shake itself I like milk, whey protein isolate (I buy the pure powder), dextrose, cocoa powder and creatine monohydrate, it needs to be mixed in a blender (a shaker bottle just won't cut it). If your shake includes 30+ grams of whey protein isolate and is mixed in milk I think adding extra BCAA/leucine is a waste of time/money.

You can get enough arachidonic acid from eggs/meat.

I recommend dairy products, meat and eggs as the protein staples of your diet for good reason, they contain high quality protein (especially BCAA/leucine), arachidonic acid, cholesterol, saturated fat and even creatine (in meat), all important ingredients for building muscle/strength.

just want to pick up on this.....ive been led to believe (well i think i have) that meal/nutrient/calorie timing is irrelevant, and its the weekly average that counts. i assumed thatd be the same for protein, cos a shake is after all, just food consumed.

why would it be better to sip a shake constantly throughout a workout, over glugging one back straight after, or up to an hour after even?

[TheWickerman]

195x50: http://youtu.be/3w9-in9rG8I

can you guys check my form on these front squats? i was told in the exercise forum it was a horrible forward lean which i am not disputing, just wondering how you guys keep such good form in such a battle as 50 fs using rest pause. first 2 sets didnt get recorded.

also isnt it just rounding of the back that is dangerous injury wise, not necessarily a forward lean?

[standalj]

195x50: http://youtu.be/3w9-in9rG8I

can you guys check my form on these front squats? i was told in the exercise forum it was a horrible forward lean which i am not disputing, just wondering how you guys keep such good form in such a battle as 50 fs using rest pause. first 2 sets didnt get recorded.

also isnt it just rounding of the back that is dangerous injury wise, not necessarily a forward lean?

I don't think your form is horrible. There were times were you burst through the upward motion and leaned forward a bit instead of remaining straight up.

[standalj]

I'd like to give thanks again to Kelei for creating this routines and providing us with a wealth of your knowledge. Like many others, I've tried different routines and have found this one (well all of yours for that matter) to be the most challenging and rewarding. I wish I could flash forward a year and see my progress. Exciting times!

[krysix]

Question here, Is there a form to "fail" in front squat?. I'm always afraid of failing front squats inside the rack, it seems much more dangerous than back squat cause the bar can hit my jaws or I can fall backwards. I also feel that in front squat the hard part of the movement when I can fail is way higher than in back squats.

[UTfootball747]

Weekly volume is what matters most, not volume per session. Compare the following:

- 12 sets per session, 1 session per week
- 6 sets per session, 2 sessions per week
- 4 sets per session, 3 sessions per week
- 3 sets per session, 4 sessions per week
- 2 sets per session, 6 sessions per week

Training frequency varies wildly (1-6 sessions per week) but the weekly volume remains the same (12 sets per week).

So is there a weekly rep target range I should be shooting for (as essentially a beginner), in your opinion? Since I'm attempting to cut at the moment I'm currently doing 20 reps of the eight movements you have listed on the first post, 3 times a week.

[klaximilian]

So is there a weekly rep target range I should be shooting for (as essentially a beginner), in your opinion? Since I'm attempting to cut at the moment I'm currently doing 20 reps of the eight movements you have listed on the first post, 3 times a week.

That volume is more than adequate.

[hexify]

Well, shiet. I've been doing the old advanced 3day split since March, and I am definitively not at 1.5x bw for bench or squat. I guess I have to bump down to intermediate 2day split?

[Kelei]

195x50: http://youtu.be/3w9-in9rG8I

can you guys check my form on these front squats? i was told in the exercise forum it was a horrible forward lean which i am not disputing, just wondering how you guys keep such good form in such a battle as 50 fs using rest pause. first 2 sets didnt get recorded.

also isnt it just rounding of the back that is dangerous injury wise, not necessarily a forward lean?

Your form is fine, try using a slightly wider stance and see what it looks like.

just want to pick up on this.....ive been led to believe (well i think i have) that meal/nutrient/calorie timing is irrelevant, and its the weekly average that counts. i assumed thatd be the same for protein, cos a shake is after all, just food consumed.

why would it be better to sip a shake constantly throughout a workout, over glugging one back straight after, or up to an hour after even?

It's not entirely irrelevant, just not as important as we once thought.

[xxx_jfb_xxx]

Well, shiet. I've been doing the old advanced 3day split since March, and I am definitively not at 1.5x bw for bench or squat. I guess I have to bump down to intermediate 2day split?

Is that what it takes to be considered advanced? I can do 1.5 for squat but not bench. I didn't read this anywhere though... unless I looked past it.