Reply
Page 1 of 103 1 2 3 11 51 101 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 3065
  1. #1
    Banned Kelei's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2007
    Posts: 6,451
    Rep Power: 0
    Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000)
    Kelei is offline

    Kelei Routines/Advice

    My goal is to provide a framework and general guidelines for lifters of any experience level, knowing how to efficiently progress through the different stages (beginner/intermediate/advanced) can potentially save a lifter years of training time, what might otherwise take 10 years might take only 5 years if approached properly. Keep in mind that my recommendations are strictly hypertrophy orientated, they don't apply to performance/sport specific goals.

    I believe that training frequency is far more important for beginner/intermediate lifters and less important for advanced lifters, as such my recommendations will reflect this. In general I recommend the following:

    Beginner = Full body routine
    Intermediate = 2 day split (upper/lower etc)
    Advanced = 3 day split (push/pull/legs etc)

    In regards to training/rest days I prefer to keep things flexible and not allocate specific days (Monday for example) to a split, for example a beginner should perform a full body workout every time they're in the gym (regardless of what day of the week it is) and take rest days whenever required. Intermediate lifters should simply alternate between upper and lower workouts, once again regardless of what day of the week their workouts happen to fall on and taking rest days whenever required. Advanced lifters should rotate through push, pull and leg workouts regardless of what day of the week it is, if your last workout was a pull workout your next workout should be a leg workout.

    If you take a day off you simply pick up from where you left off, I recommend a minimum of 3 training days per week for beginners, a minimum of 4 training days per week for intermediate lifters and a minimum of 5 training days per week for advanced lifters. Generally speaking the more days per week you can train the faster your progress will be because your average frequency and weekly volume will both be higher.

    I believe that increasing your moderate rep (10RM etc) strength is the most efficient way to promote hypertrophy, I also believe that training to/near failure is important for promoting neural strength adaptions, this is the primary reason why I recommend rest-pause training.

    For most exercises I prefer the 8-12 rep range (calves 15-20), you should take your first set to failure (as many full reps as possible, not actually failing) and then rest long enough to allow 3-5 reps during each subsequent rest-pause set until you reach your total rep target, for example if your total rep target is 30 reps it might look like 10, 5, 5, 5, 5. If you can perform more than 5 reps in your rest-pause sets you're simply resting too long between sets, if you can't perform at least 3 reps you're not resting long enough. Some people prefer 5 rep rest-pause sets for larger/compound exercises and 3 rep rest-pause sets for smaller/isolation exercises, go with whatever feels best to you.

    You should add more weight once you can complete 12 reps in your first set, try not to let the reps drop below 8, this usually occurs when you add too much weight. You should use your first set of each exercise as your measure of progress. For small exercises like side lateral raises it's acceptable to add more weight once you can complete 15 reps rather than only 12 reps, with calf exercises I recommend adding more weight once you can complete 20 reps in your first set.

    I also recommend lifting (concentric) as fast as possible, the weights won't necessarily move fast but you should still attempt to lift them as fast as possible, I recommend slowing down the eccentric (negative), not excessively but just enough to keep tension on the muscles.

    In regards to exercise selection it's practically impossible to recommend exercises suitable for everyone so I'll simply include my personal selections for the sake of example, you can substitute exercises that don't agree with you or exercises you simply don't have the necessary equipment to perform.

    Beginner: Bench press (wide grip), seated rows (elbows tucked), tricep pressdowns, preacher curls, cable side lateral raises, front squats, Romanian deadlifts, standing calf raises

    Intermediate: Bench press (wide grip), seated rows (elbows tucked), flyes/crossovers, reverse flyes/crossovers, tricep pressdowns, preacher curls, cable side lateral raises, front squats, Romanian deadlifts, leg extensions, leg curls, standing calf raises, seated calf raises.

    Advanced: Bench press (wide grip), seated rows (elbows tucked), incline bench press, wide grip pull-ups, flyes/crossovers, reverse flyes/crossovers, tricep pressdowns, preacher curls, cable side lateral raises, front squats, Romanian deadlifts, leg press, hyperextensions, leg extensions, leg curls, standing calf raises, seated calf raises.

    Concerning volume recommendations I'd say:

    Beginner = 20-30 total reps per exercise
    Intermediate = 30-40 total reps per exercise
    Advanced = 40-50 total reps per exercise

    These are only general guidelines, some of you might need even lower volume, some of you might thrive on even higher volume. You can double those numbers for calf exercises.

    My general nutrition advice is as follows:

    - Most of your protein should come from meat, eggs and dairy products.
    - Most of your carbs should come from complex sources.
    - Don't be afraid of fat, you need ample amounts saturated fat, cholesterol and arachidonic acid in your diet, full-fat dairy products and eggs are great sources.

    In general I recommend a 3/1 week loading/deloading cycle, during a deload week you should perform only your first set of each exercise, deloads serve to keep your body and mind fresh for the long haul, even if you don't feel as though you need to deload I recommend that you still do.

    As for rough experience guides I'd say something like:

    Intermediate = 1 x BW x 10 reps bench press, 1.25 x BW x 10 reps front squat, 1.5 x BW x 10 reps Romanian deadlift
    Advanced = 1.25 x BW x 10 reps bench press, 1.5 x BW x 10 reps front squat, 1.75 x BW x 10 reps Romanian deadlift

    For females take around 33% off those poundages.

    I'm sure the regular followers of my routines/threads will be around to answer any initial questions that might arise, all of this stuff is pretty simple after running it through your head a few times. I'm not going to be able to hang around and answer questions like I did in my previous threads but I'll try my best to check in every few months to see how you're all doing.
    Last edited by Kelei; 07-13-2014 at 04:14 AM.
    Reply With Quote

  2. #2
    Registered User NvDeus's Avatar
    Join Date: May 2014
    Age: 43
    Posts: 47
    Rep Power: 0
    NvDeus has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) NvDeus has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) NvDeus has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) NvDeus has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) NvDeus has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) NvDeus has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) NvDeus has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) NvDeus has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) NvDeus has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) NvDeus has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) NvDeus has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0)
    NvDeus is offline
    Bam ! Great work Kelei
    Reply With Quote

  3. #3
    Outwork Idealius's Avatar
    Join Date: May 2013
    Location: California, United States
    Posts: 514
    Rep Power: 322
    Idealius will become famous soon enough. (+50) Idealius will become famous soon enough. (+50) Idealius will become famous soon enough. (+50) Idealius will become famous soon enough. (+50) Idealius will become famous soon enough. (+50) Idealius will become famous soon enough. (+50) Idealius will become famous soon enough. (+50) Idealius will become famous soon enough. (+50) Idealius will become famous soon enough. (+50) Idealius will become famous soon enough. (+50) Idealius will become famous soon enough. (+50)
    Idealius is offline
    I love this guy.
    My muscle is a tool my mind uses to lift weights.
    Pain is the feedback.

    Power and freedom are intertwined.
    Reply With Quote

  4. #4
    Registered User Joshyb90's Avatar
    Join Date: Dec 2012
    Location: Victoria, Australia
    Posts: 825
    Rep Power: 347
    Joshyb90 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Joshyb90 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Joshyb90 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Joshyb90 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Joshyb90 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Joshyb90 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Joshyb90 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Joshyb90 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Joshyb90 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Joshyb90 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Joshyb90 will become famous soon enough. (+50)
    Joshyb90 is offline
    Thanks kelei!! All the best.
    Number 1 goal: consistency.
    Reply With Quote

  5. #5
    Registered User dojsygo's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2013
    Age: 37
    Posts: 243
    Rep Power: 195
    dojsygo will become famous soon enough. (+50) dojsygo will become famous soon enough. (+50) dojsygo will become famous soon enough. (+50) dojsygo will become famous soon enough. (+50) dojsygo will become famous soon enough. (+50) dojsygo will become famous soon enough. (+50) dojsygo will become famous soon enough. (+50) dojsygo will become famous soon enough. (+50) dojsygo will become famous soon enough. (+50) dojsygo will become famous soon enough. (+50) dojsygo will become famous soon enough. (+50)
    dojsygo is offline
    Thanks man 😊
    Any reason to drop Dips?
    Reply With Quote

  6. #6
    Registered User Alyion's Avatar
    Join Date: Aug 2008
    Location: United Kingdom (Great Britain)
    Posts: 2,756
    Rep Power: 2165
    Alyion is just really nice. (+1000) Alyion is just really nice. (+1000) Alyion is just really nice. (+1000) Alyion is just really nice. (+1000) Alyion is just really nice. (+1000) Alyion is just really nice. (+1000) Alyion is just really nice. (+1000) Alyion is just really nice. (+1000) Alyion is just really nice. (+1000) Alyion is just really nice. (+1000) Alyion is just really nice. (+1000)
    Alyion is offline
    Thank you very much for this Kelei, it's extremely appreciated.

    For those new to this thread, I strongly advise reading through Kelei's post history - it will pretty much be the best thing you ever did if your goal is bodybuilding.
    Reply With Quote

  7. #7
    Team Kelei Qxx's Avatar
    Join Date: Jul 2012
    Posts: 534
    Rep Power: 653
    Qxx is a jewel in the rough. (+500) Qxx is a jewel in the rough. (+500) Qxx is a jewel in the rough. (+500) Qxx is a jewel in the rough. (+500) Qxx is a jewel in the rough. (+500) Qxx is a jewel in the rough. (+500) Qxx is a jewel in the rough. (+500) Qxx is a jewel in the rough. (+500) Qxx is a jewel in the rough. (+500) Qxx is a jewel in the rough. (+500) Qxx is a jewel in the rough. (+500)
    Qxx is offline
    As always: in! Thanks K, hope to see you back soon.
    "The best BOSU ball workout is one max rep of throwing it across the gym so you have place to deadlift". - Chris Shugart
    Reply With Quote

  8. #8
    Team Kelei davo26's Avatar
    Join Date: Apr 2011
    Location: United Kingdom (Great Britain)
    Age: 59
    Posts: 1,818
    Rep Power: 3225
    davo26 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) davo26 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) davo26 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) davo26 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) davo26 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) davo26 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) davo26 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) davo26 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) davo26 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) davo26 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) davo26 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500)
    davo26 is offline
    Originally Posted by dojsygo View Post
    Thanks man 
    Any reason to drop Dips?
    or chins, which i thought you rated highly and preferred to pull-ups?
    just a quickie on the row, elbows tucked. been doing mine supported, flat bench, 60 degree arm angle. if tucked elbows are now preferred, would a hammer grip suit better, rather then positioning the dbs in the same line as the 'barbell position'?

    thanks as ever kelei, top bloke. cant express enough how much youve helped me and how grateful i am. enjoy your time away with AD.
    Kelei routine log - http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=148907233
    Reply With Quote

  9. #9
    Team Kelei Qxx's Avatar
    Join Date: Jul 2012
    Posts: 534
    Rep Power: 653
    Qxx is a jewel in the rough. (+500) Qxx is a jewel in the rough. (+500) Qxx is a jewel in the rough. (+500) Qxx is a jewel in the rough. (+500) Qxx is a jewel in the rough. (+500) Qxx is a jewel in the rough. (+500) Qxx is a jewel in the rough. (+500) Qxx is a jewel in the rough. (+500) Qxx is a jewel in the rough. (+500) Qxx is a jewel in the rough. (+500) Qxx is a jewel in the rough. (+500)
    Qxx is offline
    Originally Posted by dojsygo View Post
    Thanks man 
    Any reason to drop Dips?
    As he stated, the routine is a general layout. K stated earlier dips are better, but a lot of people have problems with their sternum.

    Plus, the bench press is THE exercises of measuring strength among the "bro's".

    In all seriousness, the bench press is the to-go exercise for starting lifters. It's better to keep performing the same exercises over a large amount of time due to the neurological efficiency K talked about.

    The previous threads learned that the majority of the people prefer bench press over dips anyway. If you're able to perform dips, add them when you feel you can handle more volume (I'd add them when advanced).
    "The best BOSU ball workout is one max rep of throwing it across the gym so you have place to deadlift". - Chris Shugart
    Reply With Quote

  10. #10
    Team Kelei Qxx's Avatar
    Join Date: Jul 2012
    Posts: 534
    Rep Power: 653
    Qxx is a jewel in the rough. (+500) Qxx is a jewel in the rough. (+500) Qxx is a jewel in the rough. (+500) Qxx is a jewel in the rough. (+500) Qxx is a jewel in the rough. (+500) Qxx is a jewel in the rough. (+500) Qxx is a jewel in the rough. (+500) Qxx is a jewel in the rough. (+500) Qxx is a jewel in the rough. (+500) Qxx is a jewel in the rough. (+500) Qxx is a jewel in the rough. (+500)
    Qxx is offline
    Originally Posted by davo26 View Post
    or chins, which i thought you rated highly and preferred to pull-ups?
    just a quickie on the row, elbows tucked. been doing mine supported, flat bench, 60 degree arm angle. if tucked elbows are now preferred, would a hammer grip suit better, rather then positioning the dbs in the same line as the 'barbell position'?

    thanks as ever kelei, top bloke. cant express enough how much youve helped me and how grateful i am. enjoy your time away with AD.
    Good Q on the chins. Hammer grip: yes.
    "The best BOSU ball workout is one max rep of throwing it across the gym so you have place to deadlift". - Chris Shugart
    Reply With Quote

  11. #11
    Registered User wickedsushi's Avatar
    Join Date: Jul 2012
    Location: New Zealand
    Age: 42
    Posts: 120
    Rep Power: 920
    wickedsushi is a jewel in the rough. (+500) wickedsushi is a jewel in the rough. (+500) wickedsushi is a jewel in the rough. (+500) wickedsushi is a jewel in the rough. (+500) wickedsushi is a jewel in the rough. (+500) wickedsushi is a jewel in the rough. (+500) wickedsushi is a jewel in the rough. (+500) wickedsushi is a jewel in the rough. (+500) wickedsushi is a jewel in the rough. (+500) wickedsushi is a jewel in the rough. (+500) wickedsushi is a jewel in the rough. (+500)
    wickedsushi is offline
    I'd just like to thank Kelei very much for his contributions over the years and express my regret for previously doubting your efforts. I turned the frustration of my own training ADD on you and for that I am sorry.

    Anyway, this is the thread I've been waiting for. Rather than being a new routine, it appears you've synthesized everything from your preceding threads and done so in a remarkably clear manner. Thank you. Certainly your intermediate/advanced experience guidelines are humbling. While I may have felt one of the stronger members of my gym, all this has proven is there are a hell of a lot of beginners in my gym ...

    Thanks again for all your efforts over the years and all the best for the future.
    Reply With Quote

  12. #12
    Banned Kelei's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2007
    Posts: 6,451
    Rep Power: 0
    Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000)
    Kelei is offline
    Originally Posted by davo26 View Post
    or chins, which i thought you rated highly and preferred to pull-ups?.
    Seated rows with the elbows tucked train the shoulder extension function of the lats (as do chin-ups), wide grip pull-ups train the shoulder adduction function of the lats. I think wide grip pull-ups offer more variety when combined with elbows tucked seated rows. Chin-ups combined with elbows flared rows (wide grip, bar pulled to pec level etc) is also a suitable combination, you'll be missing out on a shoulder adduction movement but it's not a big deal.

    The seated row (elbows tucked) is the best all-round back exercise, it trains the lats very well and it also trains the mid back (rhomboids, mid/lower traps) and rear delts very well if you squeeze your shoulder blades together in the fully contracted position and extend your elbows behind your body as far as you can (trains the rear delts via shoulder hyperextension).

    If for some reason I was forced to pick only 3 exercises to train my entire body I'd pick seated rows, bench press and trap bar deadlifts (basically a squat/deadlift hybrid movement). Perhaps those of you inclined toward minimalist training could perform this as a full body workout.
    Last edited by Kelei; 07-13-2014 at 04:44 AM.
    Reply With Quote

  13. #13
    Team Kelei 1fatoldman's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2009
    Location: New Jersey, United States
    Age: 78
    Posts: 1,204
    Rep Power: 3954
    1fatoldman is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) 1fatoldman is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) 1fatoldman is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) 1fatoldman is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) 1fatoldman is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) 1fatoldman is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) 1fatoldman is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) 1fatoldman is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) 1fatoldman is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) 1fatoldman is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) 1fatoldman is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500)
    1fatoldman is offline
    Look like I'm going back to RP
    I'm in the middle of trying to cut another 10 or 15 lbs so I'll try 30 reps but might have to drop back to 20-25?
    One way or the other Kelei has given us many options, so finding out what will work for "me" shouldn't be a problem.

    As always
    Thanks Kelei!
    Soon to be X-Fatoldman :)

    If you always do what you've always done
    You'll Always get what you always got

    My Journal
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=150344193

    7-9-12 295 lbs
    9-19-14 218 lbs
    Reply With Quote

  14. #14
    Banned Kelei's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2007
    Posts: 6,451
    Rep Power: 0
    Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000)
    Kelei is offline
    Originally Posted by 1fatoldman View Post
    Look like I'm going back to RP
    I'm in the middle of trying to cut another 10 or 15 lbs so I'll try 30 reps but might have to drop back to 20-25?
    One way or the other Kelei has given us many options, so finding out what will work for "me" shouldn't be a problem.

    As always
    Thanks Kelei!
    20 reps per exercise is more than enough to make decent progress, don't overexert yourself with excessive volume. Due to diminishing returns 30 total reps might only be 25% more effective compared to 20 total reps rather than 50% more effective which is what you'd expect if the returns were linear.
    Last edited by Kelei; 07-13-2014 at 07:17 AM.
    Reply With Quote

  15. #15
    Registered User Joshyb90's Avatar
    Join Date: Dec 2012
    Location: Victoria, Australia
    Posts: 825
    Rep Power: 347
    Joshyb90 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Joshyb90 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Joshyb90 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Joshyb90 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Joshyb90 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Joshyb90 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Joshyb90 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Joshyb90 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Joshyb90 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Joshyb90 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Joshyb90 will become famous soon enough. (+50)
    Joshyb90 is offline
    Kelei, when you list bench press do you still recommend with a slight incline?
    Number 1 goal: consistency.
    Reply With Quote

  16. #16
    Banned Kelei's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2007
    Posts: 6,451
    Rep Power: 0
    Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000)
    Kelei is offline
    Originally Posted by Joshyb90 View Post
    Kelei, when you list bench press do you still recommend with a slight incline?
    I prefer flat bench, no back arch, rather wide grip, bar lowered to mid pec region, if you experience shoulder pain/discomfort I recommend not lowering the bar so low, you can set some safety bars an inch (or several inches) higher than your chest in order to prevent the bar from coming down too far. For most people this should eliminate any shoulder pain/discomfort. The same applies to dumbbells, if you experience shoulder pain/discomfort try not lowering the dumbbells quite so deep.

    I prefer barbell bench press, dumbbells have never felt right to me and they also become impractical once you're very strong, you spend far too much effort simply getting them into position, especially when performing rest-pause sets.

    I personally perform very wide grip barbell bench press with the safety bars set around an inch above my chest, I lower the barbell to my mid/upper pec level. The movement is sort of a hybrid between a press and flye, Serge Nubret (he and Arnold are my favourite physiques/bodybuilders) used to perform bench press like this and after trying it I've never looked back, the difference in pec recruitment is staggering. I tried lowering the barbell all the way to my chest but I experienced discomfort in my shoulders, reducing my ROM by a single inch made a world of difference, some of you might need to set the safety bars another inch or two higher.

    I don't like the powerlifting style bench press, too much front delt and tricep emphasis and not enough pec, most people opt for the powerlifting style bench press because it allows them to lift more weight, I guess this explains why most people complain of underdeveloped pecs.
    Last edited by Kelei; 07-13-2014 at 07:18 AM.
    Reply With Quote

  17. #17
    Registered User NvDeus's Avatar
    Join Date: May 2014
    Age: 43
    Posts: 47
    Rep Power: 0
    NvDeus has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) NvDeus has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) NvDeus has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) NvDeus has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) NvDeus has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) NvDeus has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) NvDeus has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) NvDeus has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) NvDeus has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) NvDeus has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) NvDeus has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0)
    NvDeus is offline
    hey Kelei what you think about doing an Upper Lower split but swaping bench press for dips and doing biceps on lower days?

    Upper

    Chins ups
    Ring Dips
    Bent Over Rows
    Lateral Raises

    Lower

    Front Squats
    Romanian Deadlifts
    Standing calf raises
    Barbell Curls
    Reply With Quote

  18. #18
    Registered User Joshyb90's Avatar
    Join Date: Dec 2012
    Location: Victoria, Australia
    Posts: 825
    Rep Power: 347
    Joshyb90 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Joshyb90 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Joshyb90 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Joshyb90 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Joshyb90 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Joshyb90 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Joshyb90 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Joshyb90 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Joshyb90 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Joshyb90 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Joshyb90 will become famous soon enough. (+50)
    Joshyb90 is offline
    Originally Posted by Kelei View Post
    I prefer flat, rather wide grip, bar lowered to mid pec region, if you experience shoulder pain/discomfort I recommend not lowering the bar so low, you can set some safety bars an inch (or several inches) higher than your chest in order to prevent the bar from coming down too far. For most people this should eliminate any shoulder pain/discomfort. The same applies to dumbbells, if you experience shoulder pain/discomfort try not lowering the dumbbells quite so deep.

    I prefer barbell bench press, dumbbells have never felt right to me and they also become impractical once you're very strong, you spend far too much effort simply getting them into position, especially when performing rest-pause sets.
    Thnx for reply. So im guessing that whole 'incline to build upper chest' is a myth, will chest still develop well with flat work?
    Number 1 goal: consistency.
    Reply With Quote

  19. #19
    Registered User bubbathudd's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2011
    Age: 47
    Posts: 286
    Rep Power: 0
    bubbathudd is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) bubbathudd is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) bubbathudd is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) bubbathudd is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) bubbathudd is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) bubbathudd is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) bubbathudd is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) bubbathudd is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) bubbathudd is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) bubbathudd is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) bubbathudd is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)
    bubbathudd is offline
    No matter what routine I try I always find myself returning back to yours. Love the challenge and reward that comes from your style. Thanks for the time and effort you put into helping people out.
    Reply With Quote

  20. #20
    Registered User dojsygo's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2013
    Age: 37
    Posts: 243
    Rep Power: 195
    dojsygo will become famous soon enough. (+50) dojsygo will become famous soon enough. (+50) dojsygo will become famous soon enough. (+50) dojsygo will become famous soon enough. (+50) dojsygo will become famous soon enough. (+50) dojsygo will become famous soon enough. (+50) dojsygo will become famous soon enough. (+50) dojsygo will become famous soon enough. (+50) dojsygo will become famous soon enough. (+50) dojsygo will become famous soon enough. (+50) dojsygo will become famous soon enough. (+50)
    dojsygo is offline
    Originally Posted by Qxx View Post
    As he stated, the routine is a general layout. K stated earlier dips are better, but a lot of people have problems with their sternum.

    Plus, the bench press is THE exercises of measuring strength among the "bro's".

    In all seriousness, the bench press is the to-go exercise for starting lifters. It's better to keep performing the same exercises over a large amount of time due to the neurological efficiency K talked about.

    The previous threads learned that the majority of the people prefer bench press over dips anyway. If you're able to perform dips, add them when you feel you can handle more volume (I'd add them when advanced).
    Thanks for answer, I have no problem performing Dips but the stronger I got the more uncomfortable and chunky they felt. Same goes for Pull-ups and Chin-ups, it doesn't feel good to have 60 kg hanging from a belt.
    ....

    I'm a advanced lifter on bench press and romanian deadlifts but intermediate on front squat. If I on the other hand do highbar back squat I'm a advanced there as well. But for some change I will start doing the upper/lower split with 40 reps total volume.

    I just got back from gym and the upper workout felt good. 😁
    Reply With Quote

  21. #21
    Banned Kelei's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2007
    Posts: 6,451
    Rep Power: 0
    Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000)
    Kelei is offline
    Originally Posted by NvDeus View Post
    hey Kelei what you think about doing an Upper Lower split but swaping bench press for dips and doing biceps on lower days?

    Upper

    Chins ups
    Ring Dips
    Bent Over Rows
    Lateral Raises

    Lower

    Front Squats
    Romanian Deadlifts
    Standing calf raises
    Barbell Curls
    Looks fine, you can arrange your 2 day split however you like, it doesn't even need to be an upper/lower setup, for example some people like to pair back/quads and hamstrings/chest etc. A 2 day split simply allows you to include a larger variety of exercises compared to a full body routine, how exactly you decide to arrange the split is entirely up to you.

    Originally Posted by Joshyb90 View Post
    Thnx for reply. So im guessing that whole 'incline to build upper chest' is a myth, will chest still develop well with flat work?
    Incline bench slightly emphasises the clavicular head although certainly not to the degree many people assume, you're not neglecting your clavicular head if you don't perform incline bench press, it'll still grow to 90-95% of it's full potential, incline work simply adds the final 5-10%. Beginner/intermediate lifters should focus on increasing their flat bench strength, only advanced lifters need to worry about adding incline work.
    Reply With Quote

  22. #22
    Registered User NvDeus's Avatar
    Join Date: May 2014
    Age: 43
    Posts: 47
    Rep Power: 0
    NvDeus has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) NvDeus has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) NvDeus has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) NvDeus has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) NvDeus has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) NvDeus has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) NvDeus has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) NvDeus has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) NvDeus has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) NvDeus has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) NvDeus has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0)
    NvDeus is offline
    Thanks a lot, and yeah i have done a push pull split in the past but i prefer upper lower split.

    But you think it is fine to exclude entirely bench work ? And can you really achieve full potential developement of the chest with only Dips?
    Reply With Quote

  23. #23
    Banned Kelei's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2007
    Posts: 6,451
    Rep Power: 0
    Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000) Kelei is a name known to all. (+5000)
    Kelei is offline
    There's something I'd like to mention regarding muscle recruitment and EMG (as far as I can recall I've never mentioned this in my previous threads, I think it's a useful piece of information for you all). Most EMG studies employ submaximal weights and sets aren't taken to/near failure, as such I believe the results can be misleading.

    Your nervous prefers to recruit motor units from smallest/slowest to largest/fastest but it also has another recruitment preference/order, it tries to recruit the motor units (and even entire muscles) with an optimal line of pull and tension/length relationship.

    So for example during flat bench press at the beginning of a set using submaximal weight the nervous system might preferentially recruit the sternal portion of the pecs (due to line of pull and length/tension relationship advantages), so during the first few reps the sternal portion of the pecs will be working harder than the clavicular portion, relatively speaking. However things change as fatigue sets in and you start getting closer to failure, because the sternal head was preferentially recruited earlier in the set it also means that it'll fatigue earlier than the clavicular head, so what ends up happening is that as the sternal head fatigues the nervous system starts calling the clavicular head into action more and more in order to offset the reduced force generation of the sternal head.

    Performing only 5 reps with a 10RM during an EMG test will show higher average sternal head activity when averaged over the entire set compared with the clavicular head, if the set was taken to failure the average sternal/clavicular activity ratio would be more balanced because the clavicular head was given the opportunity to "kick in" near the end of the set.

    Now of course this applies to all exercises, during tricep pressdowns the lateral head might start the set with higher activity than the long head but as the lateral head fatigues the long head will progressively become more and more active to compensate for the reduced force output of the fatiguing lateral head.

    It also applies to seperate muscles entirely (assuming they share a function), for example as the brachialis fatigues biceps recruitment will increase and vice versa, this is why I don't bother performing seperate brachialis and bicep exercises, any elbow flexion exercise performed near/to failure will eventually annihilate the both of them.
    Last edited by Kelei; 07-13-2014 at 07:22 AM.
    Reply With Quote

  24. #24
    Team Kelei - Doin Work! standalj's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2014
    Location: San Diego, California, United States
    Posts: 425
    Rep Power: 159
    standalj is on a distinguished road. (+10) standalj is on a distinguished road. (+10) standalj is on a distinguished road. (+10) standalj is on a distinguished road. (+10) standalj is on a distinguished road. (+10) standalj is on a distinguished road. (+10) standalj is on a distinguished road. (+10) standalj is on a distinguished road. (+10) standalj is on a distinguished road. (+10) standalj is on a distinguished road. (+10) standalj is on a distinguished road. (+10)
    standalj is offline
    Thanks for posting the new routine! I am glad you've given us some flexibility in terms of exercise selection. I am currently doing your rev 1 A/B routine and have become a fan of pull-ups, chin-ups and dips. I am going to stick with the A/B routine and make some adjustments:

    A:
    Front Squats
    Chin-ups
    Leg Curls
    Barbell Bench Press (wide grip)
    Seated Cable Row (narrow grip)
    Standing Calf Raises
    Preacher Curls
    Triceps Pressdown

    B:
    Romanian Deadlift
    Pull-ups
    Flyes
    Leg Extensions
    Dips
    Seated Calf Raises
    Reverse Flyes
    Cable Side Lateral Raises

    Basically, a few exercises changed, my total target reps will remain the same for now (30), my reps per set will increase from 3 to 5, which means my pause between each set will be closer to 45 seconds than 30.

    Question: any preference on dumbbell vs. cable vs. machine for flyes/reverse flyes?
    Last edited by standalj; 07-13-2014 at 07:12 AM.
    Reply With Quote

  25. #25
    Don't panic Skwidward's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2005
    Location: Bikini Bottom
    Posts: 8,062
    Rep Power: 4527
    Skwidward is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Skwidward is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Skwidward is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Skwidward is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Skwidward is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Skwidward is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Skwidward is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Skwidward is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Skwidward is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Skwidward is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Skwidward is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500)
    Skwidward is offline
    I don't understand where the "pause" comes in in the rest pause...
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter

    -Winston Churchill
    Reply With Quote

  26. #26
    Team Kelei - Doin Work! standalj's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2014
    Location: San Diego, California, United States
    Posts: 425
    Rep Power: 159
    standalj is on a distinguished road. (+10) standalj is on a distinguished road. (+10) standalj is on a distinguished road. (+10) standalj is on a distinguished road. (+10) standalj is on a distinguished road. (+10) standalj is on a distinguished road. (+10) standalj is on a distinguished road. (+10) standalj is on a distinguished road. (+10) standalj is on a distinguished road. (+10) standalj is on a distinguished road. (+10) standalj is on a distinguished road. (+10)
    standalj is offline
    Originally Posted by Skwidward View Post
    I don't understand where the "pause" comes in in the rest pause...
    It is the ~45 seconds between each set (first set 10 reps...pause 45 seconds...5 reps...pause 45 seconds...5 reps...etc.)

    The rest is the 1-5 minutes (depends on what each individual needs) between each exercise. I have found that I need minimal rest (get water and setup equipment) between each exercise when doing the full body routine.
    Last edited by standalj; 07-13-2014 at 07:15 AM.
    Reply With Quote

  27. #27
    Registered User Jonesman59's Avatar
    Join Date: Nov 2009
    Age: 30
    Posts: 410
    Rep Power: 215
    Jonesman59 is on a distinguished road. (+10) Jonesman59 is on a distinguished road. (+10) Jonesman59 is on a distinguished road. (+10) Jonesman59 is on a distinguished road. (+10) Jonesman59 is on a distinguished road. (+10) Jonesman59 is on a distinguished road. (+10) Jonesman59 is on a distinguished road. (+10) Jonesman59 is on a distinguished road. (+10) Jonesman59 is on a distinguished road. (+10) Jonesman59 is on a distinguished road. (+10) Jonesman59 is on a distinguished road. (+10)
    Jonesman59 is offline
    You're the ****ing man. Thanks for all your advice/support and answering questions and private messages. Congratulations on this new and exciting chapter in your life.

    Where do you recommend we pull the bar to in elbow tucked row?
    Last edited by Jonesman59; 07-13-2014 at 07:40 AM.
    My workout training log - http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=160482161&p=1213650231#post1213650231
    Reply With Quote

  28. #28
    Registered User Joshyb90's Avatar
    Join Date: Dec 2012
    Location: Victoria, Australia
    Posts: 825
    Rep Power: 347
    Joshyb90 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Joshyb90 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Joshyb90 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Joshyb90 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Joshyb90 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Joshyb90 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Joshyb90 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Joshyb90 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Joshyb90 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Joshyb90 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Joshyb90 will become famous soon enough. (+50)
    Joshyb90 is offline
    Originally Posted by standalj View Post
    It is the ~45 seconds between each set (first set 10 reps...pause 45 seconds...5 reps...pause 45 seconds...5 reps...etc.)

    The rest is the 1-5 minutes (depends on what each individual needs) between each exercise. I have found that I need minimal rest (get water and setup equipment) between each exercise when doing the full body routine.
    Dam lol 45sec? Ive been doing iy wrong, I rest like 15sec.
    Number 1 goal: consistency.
    Reply With Quote

  29. #29
    Fighting gravity 69cam's Avatar
    Join Date: Apr 2012
    Location: Tracy, California, United States
    Age: 60
    Posts: 762
    Rep Power: 890
    69cam is a jewel in the rough. (+500) 69cam is a jewel in the rough. (+500) 69cam is a jewel in the rough. (+500) 69cam is a jewel in the rough. (+500) 69cam is a jewel in the rough. (+500) 69cam is a jewel in the rough. (+500) 69cam is a jewel in the rough. (+500) 69cam is a jewel in the rough. (+500) 69cam is a jewel in the rough. (+500) 69cam is a jewel in the rough. (+500) 69cam is a jewel in the rough. (+500)
    69cam is offline
    Thanks Kelei.

    Will jump on this when I am done with my cut (down to 10%).
    The best part of this is, my kids are learning to live healthier because of me.
    Reply With Quote

  30. #30
    Fighting gravity 69cam's Avatar
    Join Date: Apr 2012
    Location: Tracy, California, United States
    Age: 60
    Posts: 762
    Rep Power: 890
    69cam is a jewel in the rough. (+500) 69cam is a jewel in the rough. (+500) 69cam is a jewel in the rough. (+500) 69cam is a jewel in the rough. (+500) 69cam is a jewel in the rough. (+500) 69cam is a jewel in the rough. (+500) 69cam is a jewel in the rough. (+500) 69cam is a jewel in the rough. (+500) 69cam is a jewel in the rough. (+500) 69cam is a jewel in the rough. (+500) 69cam is a jewel in the rough. (+500)
    69cam is offline
    Originally Posted by Joshyb90 View Post
    Dam lol 45sec? Ive been doing iy wrong, I rest like 15sec.
    Whatever it takes to get to 3-5 reps.
    The best part of this is, my kids are learning to live healthier because of me.
    Reply With Quote

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts