Kelei Routines/Advice

[SXElifter]

What is the recommended warm-up for this routine?

Would it be acceptable do the lift in order of biggest to smallest? For example, front squat, bench press, row, RDL, tricep press, curls, lateral raises, calves... How about ab work?

A warm up isn't really necessary with this routine, since you're lifting a 10RM and it's not extremely heavy. Kelei has stated he usually pounds out a couple of reps as he loads the bar for the first couple exercises.

And yes, biggest to smallest.

I believe he has also stated ab work is not necessary, as front squats and RDLs will build your core. But if you want to perhaps speed up ab development, you could do a couple ab exercises every other day or something like that.

[marcioalfranco]

How do i start?

[Kelei]

I do my squats on a smith machine only because the gym I go to doesn't have a standalone barbell. Anyways, I can't seem to get the romainian deadlift right.I always feel my form is out of place. So instead of doing the deadlift, I use the hamstring press instead. Is that a good alternative to the Romainian deadlift?

Hyperextensions are a suitable alternative if you can't get the RDL to feel right.

Interesting perspective. I was under the impression that recomps typically only work for the novice, but not intermediates and beyond.

The more advanced you are the longer it takes to recomp, more patience is required.

What is the recommended warm-up for this routine?

Would it be acceptable do the lift in order of biggest to smallest? For example, front squat, bench press, row, RDL, tricep press, curls, lateral raises, calves... How about ab work?

I usually only warm up for the first compound exercises per muscle group, for example on leg days I'll warm up for RDL and front squats, on my pull day I warm up for chin-ups, on my push day I warm up for bench press, there's no need to warm up for subsequent exercises. I usually pump out 2-3 reps every time I add another plate to the bar/belt, then rest a few minutes before starting my first set.

I think direct ab work is unnecessary, your abs are trained indirectly during many exercises, especially chin/pull-ups and tricep pressdowns.

[mag00n]

Kelei/anyone else,

Strained/sprained LCL playing basketball 2 weeks ago. Leg extensions and calf exercises really irritate it. Ive cut out of calves for now but would like to keep some quad work in. Im thinking O leg press? Any other suggestions to try if that irritates it as well?

[sepandee]

I strained my left front/side delt last Friday being overzealous with side lateral raises. Its been 3 days since I've been able to do bench press, pull-ups, dips, or preacher curls. Feels like my strength is slowly deteriorating. Beyond frustrating.

Oh no, 3 days. Catastrophic catabolism.

Regardless of the split you have very little leg exercises and your physique will reflect as such.

You've said you've been working out for a year? What you said might be true but I would avoid saying it because you're not an expert (and neither am I).

What is the recommended warm-up for this routine?

Would it be acceptable do the lift in order of biggest to smallest? For example, front squat, bench press, row, RDL, tricep press, curls, lateral raises, calves... How about ab work?

I bicycle to my gym(5 mins), do 2 minutes of dynamic stretching, then do a few warm-up sets.

[UTfootball747]

So for the beginning routine, is it best to follow the conventional wisdom of at least one day's rest (from lifting) following each full-body routine?

[Effrum]

So for the beginning routine, is it best to follow the conventional wisdom of at least one day's rest (from lifting) following each full-body routine?

It's up to you, but generally speaking - more frequency = faster results.

I do full-body (using the A/B routine) 6x a week. It's rough at first, but your body adapts to the frequency/volume pretty quickly. It makes deloading very important though.

[standalj]

What is the recommended warm-up for this routine?

Dynamic stretching.

[UTfootball747]

It's up to you, but generally speaking - more frequency = faster results.

I do full-body (using the A/B routine) 6x a week. It's rough at first, but your body adapts to the frequency/volume pretty quickly. It makes deloading very important though.

So instead of resting after each routine, you lift lighter every fourth week?

[standalj]

So instead of resting after each routine, you lift lighter every fourth week?

When you deload, you do the first set of each exercise in your routine each day you hit the gym. If you are working out 6 days a week, you continue working out 6 days a week during the deload, just at the reduced volume.

[Effrum]

So instead of resting after each routine, you lift lighter every fourth week?

Nah, not lighter, I still lift the same weight. I just only do 1 set of 10-12 reps on each exercise instead of the full 30 reps rest-pause. It takes me about 25 mins.

Ideally, you will never lower the weight you're lifting, unless you're recovering from an injury or something like that.

[LucasMuller]

My goal is to provide a framework and general guidelines for lifters of any experience level, knowing how to efficiently progress through the different stages (beginner/intermediate/advanced) can potentially save a lifter years of training time, what might otherwise take 10 years might take only 5 years if approached properly. Keep in mind that my recommendations are strictly hypertrophy orientated, they don't apply to performance/sport specific goals.

I believe that training frequency is far more important for beginner/intermediate lifters and less important for advanced lifters, as such my recommendations will reflect this. In general I recommend the following:

Beginner = Full body routine
Intermediate = 2 day split (upper/lower etc)
Advanced = 3 day split (push/pull/legs etc)

In regards to training/rest days I prefer to keep things flexible and not allocate specific days (Monday for example) to a split, for example a beginner should perform a full body workout every time they're in the gym (regardless of what day of the week it is) and take rest days whenever required. Intermediate lifters should simply alternate between upper and lower workouts, once again regardless of what day of the week their workouts happen to fall on and taking rest days whenever required. Advanced lifters should rotate through push, pull and leg workouts regardless of what day of the week it is, if your last workout was a pull workout your next workout should be a leg workout.

If you take a day off you simply pick up from where you left off, I recommend a minimum of 3 training days per week for beginners, a minimum of 4 training days per week for intermediate lifters and a minimum of 5 training days per week for advanced lifters. Generally speaking the more days per week you can train the faster your progress will be because your average frequency and weekly volume will both be higher.

I believe that increasing your moderate rep (10RM etc) strength is the most efficient way to promote hypertrophy, I also believe that training to/near failure is important for promoting neural strength adaptions, this is the primary reason why I recommend rest-pause training.

For most exercises I prefer the 8-12 rep range (calves 15-20), you should take your first set to failure (as many full reps as possible, not actually failing) and then rest long enough to allow 3-5 reps during each subsequent rest-pause set until you reach your total rep target, for example if your total rep target is 30 reps it might look like 10, 5, 5, 5, 5. If you can perform more than 5 reps in your rest-pause sets you're simply resting too long between sets, if you can't perform at least 3 reps you're not resting long enough. Some people prefer 5 rep rest-pause sets for larger/compound exercises and 3 rep rest-pause sets for smaller/isolation exercises, go with whatever feels best to you.

You should add more weight once you can complete 12 reps in your first set, try not to let the reps drop below 8, this usually occurs when you add too much weight. You should use your first set of each exercise as your measure of progress. For small exercises like side lateral raises it's acceptable to add more weight once you can complete 15 reps rather than only 12 reps, with calf exercises I recommend adding more weight once you can complete 20 reps in your first set.

I also recommend lifting (concentric) as fast as possible, the weights won't necessarily move fast but you should still attempt to lift them as fast as possible, I recommend slowing down the eccentric (negative), not excessively but just enough to keep tension on the muscles.

In regards to exercise selection it's practically impossible to recommend exercises suitable for everyone so I'll simply include my personal selections for the sake of example, you can substitute exercises that don't agree with you or exercises you simply don't have the necessary equipment to perform.

Beginner: Bench press (wide grip), seated rows (elbows tucked), tricep pressdowns, preacher curls, cable side lateral raises, front squats, Romanian deadlifts, standing calf raises

Intermediate: Bench press (wide grip), seated rows (elbows tucked), flyes/crossovers, reverse flyes/crossovers, tricep pressdowns, preacher curls, cable side lateral raises, front squats, Romanian deadlifts, leg extensions, leg curls, standing calf raises, seated calf raises.

Advanced: Bench press (wide grip), seated rows (elbows tucked), incline bench press, wide grip pull-ups, flyes/crossovers, reverse flyes/crossovers, tricep pressdowns, preacher curls, cable side lateral raises, front squats, Romanian deadlifts, leg press, hyperextensions, leg extensions, leg curls, standing calf raises, seated calf raises.

Concerning volume recommendations I'd say:

Beginner = 20-30 total reps per exercise
Intermediate = 30-40 total reps per exercise
Advanced = 40-50 total reps per exercise

These are only general guidelines, some of you might need even lower volume, some of you might thrive on even higher volume. You can double those numbers for calf exercises.

My general nutrition advice is as follows:

- Most of your protein should come from meat, eggs and dairy products.
- Most of your carbs should come from complex sources.
- Don't be afraid of fat, you need ample amounts saturated fat, cholesterol and arachidonic acid in your diet, full-fat dairy products and eggs are great sources.

In general I recommend a 3/1 week loading/deloading cycle, during a deload week you should perform only your first set of each exercise, deloads serve to keep your body and mind fresh for the long haul, even if you don't feel as though you need to deload I recommend that you still do.

As for rough experience guides I'd say something like:

Intermediate = 1 x BW x 10 reps bench press, 1.25 x BW x 10 reps front squat, 1.5 x BW x 10 reps Romanian deadlift
Advanced = 1.25 x BW x 10 reps bench press, 1.5 x BW x 10 reps front squat, 1.75 x BW x 10 reps Romanian deadlift

For females take around 33% off those poundages.

I'm sure the regular followers of my routines/threads will be around to answer any initial questions that might arise, all of this stuff is pretty simple after running it through your head a few times. I'm not going to be able to hang around and answer questions like I did in my previous threads but I'll try my best to check in every few months to see how you're all doing.

Thanks Kelei, this is really useful...

[SXElifter]

Kelei, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this. He basically says dips don't hit the triceps very well because the triceps are not perpendicular with the line of force.

you tube .com/watch?v=OiTCw7JAN1w
(there are spaces in between you_tube and tube_.com because I can't post links)

[serdhusti]

So for the beginning routine, is it best to follow the conventional wisdom of at least one day's rest (from lifting) following each full-body routine?

My thoughts are that when the daily volume is too much, lower your reps. When the weekly volume is too much, take a rest day. When the monthly volume is too much, take a deload week.

This might sound like a cop out answer, but listen to your body. If you worked out yesterday and you wake up feeling good, go work out again.

In my case, I find that 5x/week is about my limit for kelei's full body workout.

[standalj]

Kelei, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this. He basically says dips don't hit the triceps very well because the triceps are not perpendicular with the line of force.

There are two types of dips--chest and triceps. With tricep dips, you are going straight up and down, so I am not sure why that person doesn't think the triceps aren't in the line of force. I like to look at myself in the mirror when doing exercises to monitor my form and the affect, and can tell you first hand my triceps are well worked out when doing the tricep-specific version. Furthermore, they get a decent workout when doing chest dips.

[SXElifter]

There are two types of dips--chest and triceps. With tricep dips, you are going straight up and down, so I am not sure why that person doesn't think the triceps aren't in the line of force. I like to look at myself in the mirror when doing exercises to monitor my form and the affect, and can tell you first hand my triceps are well worked out when doing the tricep-specific version. Furthermore, they get a decent workout when doing chest dips.

Well, I understand there are two types of dips - chest (wide grip, lean forward) and triceps (moderate grip, upright)... these don't make much of a difference. The dips exercise in general is what I am talking about.

[standalj]

The dips exercise in general is what I am talking about.

Understand...based on what I feel and see, I don't agree with what that guy is saying.

[palumboism]

To give you all an example, I intentionally avoid direct upper trap, neck, lower back, front delt, glute and forearm training, I don't like the proportions these muscle groups promote when overdeveloped. On the other hand I intentionally emphasise the upper back (lats + mid back), side delts, upper arms, pecs and thighs.

How did you bring your forearms up? Mine are underdeveloped & I remember at one stage you mentioned you had to bring them up too.

[TheWickerman]

so what kind of rom would u guys say is optimal for the compounds? should we be going atg for front squats, close stance, quarter squats w heavier weight for quads, full rom on bench or just the bottom half?

[ThatOneLurker]

so what kind of rom would u guys say is optimal for the compounds? should we be going atg for front squats, close stance, quarter squats w heavier weight for quads, full rom on bench or just the bottom half?

Full ROM for everything.

Side raises = stop at 80 degrees, don't come completely down because you'll use momentum to get the dumbbells back up.

[Kelei]

Kelei, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this. He basically says dips don't hit the triceps very well because the triceps are not perpendicular with the line of force.

you tube .com/watch?v=OiTCw7JAN1w
(there are spaces in between you_tube and tube_.com because I can't post links)

He's talking about force vectors, moment arms (levers) and mechanical advantages/disadvantages, then he's simply jumping to conclucions because he only knows half of what he's talking about. He's merely pointing out that dips are easier pound for pound compared to some other tricep exercises due to reasons mentioned above, his line of reasoning breaks down when he fails to consider the different amounts of weight being lifted, for example performing dips with 300 pounds of resistance is likely equivalent to performing a less mechanically advantageous tricep exercise with perhaps 50 pounds.

Basically all he's saying is that less mechanically advantageous exercises require less resistance to get the job done and that exercises with greater mechanical advantage require more resistance to get the job done.

A little learning is a dangerous thing.

[SXElifter]

He's talking about force vectors, moment arms (levers) and mechanical advantages/disadvantages, then he's simply jumping to conclucions because he only knows half of what he's talking about. He's merely pointing out that dips are easier pound for pound compared to some other tricep exercises due to reasons mentioned above, his line of reasoning breaks down when he fails to consider the different amounts of weight being lifted, for example performing dips with 300 pounds of resistance is likely equivalent to performing a less mechanically advantageous tricep exercise with perhaps 50 pounds.

Basically all he's saying is that less mechanically advantageous exercises require less resistance to get the job done and that exercises with greater mechanical advantage require more resistance to get the job done.

A little learning is a dangerous thing.

Ah, thanks for that. I knew your knowledge would crush his, just wanted to hear it from someone who I knew would be correct.

EDIT: That being said, I've heard you say bench press isn't an excellent triceps exercise. I know dips are a good chest exercise (as you've mentioned), but are they also a good triceps exercise?

Also, sorry to bombard you with questions (but you are my god when it comes to knowledge lol). I had a posterior disc slip in the lower back a while ago (I'm doing very well now, not really any pain anymore). I have read a couple of your posts where you mentioned disc slips, reverse hyperextensions being a great exercise for it, which I definitely found out through doing it. But for a posterior bulge, exercises where there is hip flexion should be avoided, correct? So that would be anything like sit ups, anything where knees are coming to chest, and even leg raises, right? When I was recovering, I did a lot of hyperextension type stuff, pretty much anything that is the opposite of the sit up (which rounds the back).

Regarding the disc, one thing that has had me wondering for a while is a posterior disc slip and having anterior pelvic tilt. Don't these two contradict one another? APT calls for strengthening the abs, because the lower back is overpowering the abs, but the disc bulge calls for the opposite, as I don't think I'm supposed to be performing things like sit ups (which I think cause pain). Also for correcting APT, stretching the hip flexors... this wouldn't negatively affect the disc, would it? I would think stretching everything would only help.

[Kelei]

Ah, thanks for that. I knew your knowledge would crush his, just wanted to hear it from someone who I knew would be correct.

EDIT: That being said, I've heard you say bench press isn't an excellent triceps exercise. I know dips are a good chest exercise (as you've mentioned), but are they also a good triceps exercise?

If you want to perform bench press for your triceps you should use a close grip (shoulder width or very slightly wider) and perform only the top 1/2 or 1/3 of the ROM, you can set some safety bars at the proper height and start your reps from the bottom rather than from the top, using this technique allows you to press from a dead start.

If you're performing dips for the triceps you should keep your torso as vertical/upright as possible and use a shoulder width or very slightly wider grip, if you're performing dips for your chest you should lean forward as far as possible and use a wider than shoulder width grip.

You can build a massive set of triceps from dips alone.

[SXElifter]

If you want to perform bench press for your triceps you should use a close grip (shoulder width or very slightly wider) and perform only the top 1/2 or 1/3 of the ROM, you can set some safety bars at the proper height and start your reps from the bottom rather than from the top, using this technique allows you to press from a dead start.

If you're performing dips for the triceps you should keep your torso as vertical/upright as possible and use a shoulder width or very slightly wider grip), if you're performing dips for your chest you should lean forward as far as possible and use a wider than shoulder width grip.

You can build a massive set of triceps from dips alone.

Thank you big K. I edited my post again, it must've been after you started to reply, had to harass you with another question.

[Kelei]

Also, sorry to bombard you with questions (but you are my god when it comes to knowledge lol). I had a posterior disc slip in the lower back a while ago (I'm doing very well now, not really any pain anymore). I have read a couple of your posts where you mentioned disc slips, reverse hyperextensions being a great exercise for it, which I definitely found out through doing it. But for a posterior bulge, exercises where there is hip flexion should be avoided, correct? So that would be anything like sit ups, anything where knees are coming to chest, and even leg raises, right? When I was recovering, I did a lot of hyperextension type stuff, pretty much anything that is the opposite of the sit up (which rounds the back).

Regarding the disc, one thing that has had me wondering for a while is a posterior disc slip and having anterior pelvic tilt. Don't these two contradict one another? APT calls for strengthening the abs, because the lower back is overpowering the abs, but the disc bulge calls for the opposite, as I don't think I'm supposed to be performing things like sit ups (which I think cause pain). Also for correcting APT, stretching the hip flexors... this wouldn't negatively affect the disc, would it? I would think stretching everything would only help.

Keep performing reverse hypers, stretch your hip flexors and lower back (lying hamstring wall stretches are also a great lower back stretch), stretch the thigh adductors, perform anti-extension abdominal training rather than flexion exercises, train the glutes directly (reverse hypers + hip thrusts).

As for your upper body you need to stretch the pecs and lats, you need to strengthen the mid back (rhomboids, mid/lower traps) and external rotators. Sleeping on your back with a low pillow and your legs kept straight is a great way to help correct ATP, it passively stretches important muscles while you sleep.

[SXElifter]

Keep performing reverse hypers, stretch your hip flexors and lower back (lying hamstring wall stretches are also a great lower back stretch), stretch the thigh adductors, perform anti-extension abdominal training rather than flexion exercises, train the glutes directly (reverse hypers + hip thrusts).

As for your upper body you need to stretch the pecs and lats, you need to strengthen the mid back (rhomboids, mid/lower traps) and external rotators. Sleeping on your back with a low pillow and your legs kept straight is a great way to help correct ATP, it passively stretches important muscles while you sleep.

Ok. I've read your lengthy posts on anterior pelvic tilt, so I've got that down. Does all of this contribute to improving the disc as well? Do you say anti-extension exercises simply because of the disc?

Thank you for your help, just trying to get a full understanding.

[DamonX]

Subbed

[RGA8]

Don't think I've posted in this thread yet! I will post up some progress pics soon cause I haven't in a while and also to give people a taste of what to expect on Kelei's routines.

[standalj]

Lovin the fact that each time I hit the gym my 10RM is increasing on one exercise or another. I know this will slow down as I progress but its exciting.

[RGA8]

Lovin the fact that each time I hit the gym my 10RM is increasing on one exercise or another. I know this will slow down as I progress but its exciting.

A year and a half since I started Kelei's and I am still gaining at least a rep every day or every other day on a recomp! Keep at it dude!