Kelei Routines/Advice

[dojsygo]

Sorry for being stupid. But am I supposed to do it like this if I'm an intermediate?

A:
Bench press (wide grip), seated rows (elbows tucked), flyes/crossovers, reverse flyes/crossovers, tricep pressdowns, preacher curls, cable side lateral raises.

B:
front squats, Romanian deadlifts, leg extensions, leg curls, standing calf raises, seated calf raises

?

Yes :-)

[SXElifter]

^^
Astonishing progress, well done.

Thanks for everything Kelei, made great gains and have learned a lot.

I have added two text files in a zip file with all Kelei's posts of his first two threads. Just search for a keyword that is relevant to your question regarding fitness or nutrition in the text files. Someone else made these text files, so credit goes to him/her.

I'm having a bit of trouble with this file, I think maybe because it's php? Could anyone perhaps put it into a txt file or something for me? Much appreciated.

[Kelei]

Hmmm...abduction is going away from the mid-line of the body while adduction towards the mid-line:

http://teachmeanatomy.info/the-basic...s-of-movement/

Sure you didn't mean adduction for pull-ups/pulldowns? I may have the wrong understanding here, but it seems any pull exercise would be adduction while push exercise abduction.

http://www.exrx.net/Articulations/Shoulder.html

[standalj]

Sorry for being stupid. But am I supposed to do it like this if I'm an intermediate?

A:
Bench press (wide grip), seated rows (elbows tucked), flyes/crossovers, reverse flyes/crossovers, tricep pressdowns, preacher curls, cable side lateral raises.

B:
front squats, Romanian deadlifts, leg extensions, leg curls, standing calf raises, seated calf raises

?

That is one way; look at page 1 for another way (doing full body workout with alternating exercises).

[standalj]

http://www.exrx.net/Articulations/Shoulder.html

Thanks Kelei! I had a partially right understanding.

[SXElifter]

Kelei, do flyes provide something for chest development that pressing movements don't?

[krysix]

I'm having a bit of trouble with this file, I think maybe because it's php? Could anyone perhaps put it into a txt file or something for me? Much appreciated.

It has 2 txt files, just use 7zip to open it.

[davo26]

So would it be correct to say that the A/B revision is no longer the way to do a full body workout?

its still the way i do it :-) i prefer it to a dedicated legs day, just cant look forward to a leg day. struggle to do front squats and RDL both in one session, and the following leg curl/extension exercises suffer too. i can lift 84kg and 40kg for leg ext and ham curl respectively on A/B, but after front squat and RDL those numbers would suffer by some margin. could just be a mind thing but i prefer to keep the numbers high by mixing it all up so the muscles are fresher.

[standalj]

its still the way i do it :-) i prefer it to a dedicated legs day, just cant look forward to a leg day. struggle to do front squats and RDL both in one session, and the following leg curl/extension exercises suffer too. i can lift 84kg and 40kg for leg ext and ham curl respectively on A/B, but after front squat and RDL those numbers would suffer by some margin. could just be a mind thing but i prefer to keep the numbers high by mixing it all up so the muscles are fresher.

I too prefer the A/B split

[serdhusti]

its still the way i do it :-) i prefer it to a dedicated legs day, just cant look forward to a leg day. struggle to do front squats and RDL both in one session, and the following leg curl/extension exercises suffer too. i can lift 84kg and 40kg for leg ext and ham curl respectively on A/B, but after front squat and RDL those numbers would suffer by some margin. could just be a mind thing but i prefer to keep the numbers high by mixing it all up so the muscles are fresher.

That's what I was thinking; front squat and RDL on the same day for multiple days in a row would be rough. I don't wanna sell myself short though, so I'm considering giving it a run.

Another though: in A/B, you've got two pulls for every push, but this beginner routine is 1:1. Are we thinking that as a beginner, you really only need to do tucked elbow seated rows for your back?

[Qxx]

That's what I was thinking; front squat and RDL on the same day for multiple days in a row would be rough. I don't wanna sell myself short though, so I'm considering giving it a run.

Another though: in A/B, you've got two pulls for every push, but this beginner routine is 1:1. Are we thinking that as a beginner, you really only need to do tucked elbow seated rows for your back?

Take that sand out of your vagina and train like you mean it. It's a hard game. You have to work hard to earn your results.

'nomsaying?

[standalj]

Take that sand out of your vagina and train like you mean it. It's a hard game. You have to work hard to earn your results.

'nomsaying?

Classic!

[zowiechaozz]

ive got a question... i consider myself an intermediate trainee.
so i should be doing upper/lower split.. that like: monday:upper, tue:lower , thurs:upper, fri:lower
and 30-40reps per exercise

and now the question.
the recomeded exercises for upper body are: Bench press (wide grip), seated rows (elbows tucked), flyes/crossovers, reverse flyes/crossovers, tricep pressdowns, preacher curls, cable side lateral raises
so i do all of these exercises on the same day? if yes that means i do bench 30 reps, rows 30 reps, flyes 30 reps and so on... ?

[standalj]

ive got a question... i consider myself an intermediate trainee.
so i should be doing upper/lower split.. that like: monday:upper, tue:lower , thurs:upper, fri:lower
and 30-40reps per exercise

and now the question.
the recomeded exercises for upper body are: Bench press (wide grip), seated rows (elbows tucked), flyes/crossovers, reverse flyes/crossovers, tricep pressdowns, preacher curls, cable side lateral raises
so i do all of these exercises on the same day? if yes that means i do bench 30 reps, rows 30 reps, flyes 30 reps and so on... ?

Pretty much the same question others have asked and already answered. For the intermediate routine you can:

a. Do a upper/lower body split (all upper body one day, all lower body next day, repeat)
b. Do a full body split (half upper body/lower body exercises one day, other half next day, repeat)

Either way you do the 30 reps for each exercise.

[krysix]

its still the way i do it :-) i prefer it to a dedicated legs day, just cant look forward to a leg day. struggle to do front squats and RDL both in one session, and the following leg curl/extension exercises suffer too. i can lift 84kg and 40kg for leg ext and ham curl respectively on A/B, but after front squat and RDL those numbers would suffer by some margin. could just be a mind thing but i prefer to keep the numbers high by mixing it all up so the muscles are fresher.

I agree, leg day suck IMO that's why I'm gonna do a back/quads and chest/hams routine. I was going to do a push/pull routine but I think front squats and pressing may harm each other cause of front delts and romanian deadlifts and pulls may harm each other cause of grip strength.

[TheWickerman]

for anyone training at home, there are 2 lifts ive found good for adding in as substitutes for leg press/extension/curls...look up on youtube "diy quad blaster". it is basically a homemade sissy squat machine sort of thing and kills ur quads pretty good. also for hams, id say just have someone hold ur heels down or lock them underneath something while kneeling down and lean forward and pushup back up. that or buy these little plastic circular mover things at home depot and lay on ur back and curl legs back pushing through heels. lastly, take a tire and make a sled drag and you can walk backwards w as much weight as u can fluently handle for like 30 seconds and bend down low. kills the quads. obviously if my plan was to get on stage id prob join a gym but i dont so this suffices while saving me jack loads of $$$ lol.

SEE GUYS I DO LIKE KELEI AND THIS ROUTINE!!!! lol just wanted to ask a simple question that got taken outa control before. i absolutely love this routine and feel like it is one of those little gems i rarely come by any more like iifym a few yrs ago lol

[serdhusti]

Take that sand out of your vagina and train like you mean it. It's a hard game. You have to work hard to earn your results.

'nomsaying?

So you're thinking this beginner routine would be better than A/B Revision 1 in terms of full body workouts?

[standalj]

So you're thinking this beginner routine would be better than A/B Revision 1 in terms of full body workouts?

I believe Kelei's intent was this routine to be the most preferred. He took all the good things from the other routines and made a "super" routine. Haha.

[ThatOneLurker]

Well if ran 5-6x a week, you'd be getting more frequency (faster strength progress) on a few exercises rather than a moderate amount in the revision 1. The revision 1 is titled for intermediates anyway.

So you're thinking this beginner routine would be better than A/B Revision 1 in terms of full body workouts?

[JPT1]

Two noob questions

Can someone help me breakdown what my work out schedule will be if I followed Kelei's beginner routine

Day 1 - Bench-press, seated rows
Day 2- triceps press downs, preacher curls, cable side lateral raises
Day 3- front squats, Romanian deadlifts,standing calf raises

Did i get that right?
Also I go to planet fitness and the gym doesn't have the preacher curl bench is there an alternative workout to this?

Also, how do I know I am ready to move on to the next level ? I have been following Kelei's old routine with the 90 second rest pattern for 3 weeks now. Should I continue using the old routine which was taken down from the forum and finish it till I hit my 5 th week or just start this new modified beginners routine? Thanks guys

[davo26]

Two noob questions

Can someone help me breakdown what my work out schedule will be if I followed Kelei's beginner routine

Day 1 - Bench-press, seated rows
Day 2- triceps press downs, preacher curls, cable side lateral raises
Day 3- front squats, Romanian deadlifts,standing calf raises

Did i get that right?
Also I go to planet fitness and the gym doesn't have the preacher curl bench is there an alternative workout to this?

Also, how do I know I am ready to move on to the next level ? I have been following Kelei's old routine with the 90 second rest pattern for 3 weeks now. Should I continue using the old routine which was taken down from the forum and finish it till I hit my 5 th week or just start this new modified beginners routine? Thanks guys

1. i believe youre meant to do the whole lot in one day, not a split routine. but maybe only do 3-4 days per week, and maybe only 20 reps each depending on time constraints and what youre body can handle.

2. i like incline db curl, but any curl will be fine as long as you can keep good form.

3. listen to your body. you may find once youre fairly accomplished at beginner level that you just fancy trying intermediate. then itd be a case of seeing how you get on with it, no set rules.

[ga2arch]

Thanks Kelei for your time once again.

Here there are the updated Q/A of this and the previous threads, tons of knowledge in there.

dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10443564/kelei-qa.txt
dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10443564/kelei-qa-revision1.txt
dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10443564/kelei-qa-routines-advice.txt

[Idealius]

lol

hope you don't give us the wrong advices

[sepandee]

In, though I just started switched from revision 1 rest-pause to the split program and like it so far, so I'll continue with it for the summer. Having 90 second breaks in between is nice for a change: I can finally stretch the muscles I won't use on that day and try to become a bit more flexible by the end of summer. The workouts are also under 50 minutes which suits me well.

Has anyone timed how long the latest advanced routine takes?

[sepandee]

I'm just going to copy-paste something that I came across on ********. It resonates with me very well. I remember when I first started lifting, I was doing Rippetoe's Starting Strength. My gains were OK though I wasn't eating as much as the program was calling for on purpose, so I didn't grow as strong as Rippetoe would've liked me to. After a year I did reverse pyramid training for a bit and then switched to Ryan's Growth Stimulus Training: really fun program and I had very nice gains (and Ryan's a great guy himself). Then came Kelei's original routine, then RP, and for the past 2 weeks I've been doing the split program. But for the first two years, when I was on Starting Strength and on GST and reverse pyramid training and who knows what else, I started becoming very arrogant and judgmental at the gym:

'oh, a half sissy squat, haha. Lame'
'Pff, the barbell's not even hitting his chest during the bench press.'
'Skinny guy doing curls. Yea good luck. Why doesn't he just squat and deadlift to get strong first?'

It took me a while to realize that people have different circumstances and different goals, and I, especially as someone who's not really an expert in weightlifting and don't know these people's circumstances, shouldn't be very judgmental of what others are doing.

I remember for a while I was very focused on strength, and I mocked all the people who came to the gym with their split programs working with isolation movements. "Just squat and deadlift and press, you idiots." The primary goal of anyone coming to the gym, especially beginners, should be strength, I thought (though I still do think that beginners benefit more if they focus on strength with low-rep routines).

But now I know better. And today I came across this post and I started remembering how much of an arse I was before. This post pretty much captures how I feel today about the whole thing:

Is it just me, or does the discourse in the powerlifting and bodybuilding community have the same effect on lifters' perception of "strong" or "jacked" that photoshopping or airbrushing has on womens' perception of beauty?

Here's a newsflash: for the general public, a 225 bench and 315 squat are pretty darn strong for a male, and a 95 bench and 185 squat are pretty darn strong for a female.

Pick a commercial gym at random. You'll find MAYBE 3-5 people who lift those weights out of hundreds of total members.

Sure, most of them aren't training for pure strength, but I'd wager that if they were, most of them would still fall short of those standards.

"Oh, but I'm such a great coach; all of my lifters squatted 405 and benched 315 in their first 2 months working with me, blah blah blah." You MAY be a great coach, but also recognize the image you put off and the typical person you work with will dictate who else comes to you for training. If you exude the "lifting heavy things is LIFE; if you're not deadlifting, why do you think life is worth living?; all of my children were conceived while my wife and I were in the squat rack after hours with Mastodon playing" vibe, you're not going to have normal people with normal potential flocking to you. You're going to have a very warped perception of what most people are capable of.

Heck (anyone who knows me can testify to this), I'm probably the least intimidating person I know. I'm a short pudgy guy who usually has a dumb grin on his face for no reason whatsoever. And the fact that I lift really heavy things still scares a lot of "normal" people away.

When your ******** feed is clogged with videos of guys lifting obscene weights or sporting stage-ready physiques, it's easy to get a distorted perception of what "normal" is. It can make you feel inadequate if you don't measure up, or falsely superior if you do.

I see this a lot because the bulk of my blog posts revolve around dissecting scientific studies. The first thing a lot of powerlifters will jump on is "oh, this is irrelevant/scientists are stupid. These guys are so weak, so these results have nothing to do with anything," when the study was done with participants who'd been training a couple years and had a bench press a little over 1x bodyweight.

Guess what. That's a milestone for a lot of people. Sure, they'd get crushed in a powerlifting meet, but most people aren't ever going to compete. MAYBE, instead of saying "this is irrelevant because these people aren't as strong as me," you should look at it as, "these people aren't nearly as gifted as I am, and were still able to make this much progress with this protocol."

Just food for thought.

WHen I squat, I alternate between front and back squats between sessions, and I can squat 315lb and deadlift around 365lb and yeah, those are one of the heaviest weighs I've seen someone lift at the commercial gyms I've been to even those by comparison they're not really huge numbers. And I'm happy with them. I was once aiming to squat 405lb + and deadlift 495lb+. But now I realize the marginal benefit of strength gains quickly diminishes (for me) as I get stronger and stronger.

ANyways, just sharing my thoughts.

[Effrum]

Interesting food for thought. I've noticed that I tend to take mental note of people's form in the gym, I find myself wanting to say "try this" or "try that", but I know I'd just come across as an ******* even though it's not my intention. I'd like to think I'm not too mentally critical of the lifts/weight they're using. But it does annoy me whenever I see one of the "bro" lifters get in there and throw lots of weight on only to half-rep and strut around for attention lol.

[standalj]

But it does annoy me whenever I see one of the "bro" lifters get in there and throw lots of weight on only to half-rep and strut around for attention lol.

Or pull-ups like they are fish out of water, curls like they are doing the vertical worm, pull-downs like they are rowing a boat, etc.

I am less judgmental of the weight people are doing (shoot I'd be hating on myself all day long) and more so on their technique (which I am by no means an expert).

[standalj]

I also recommend lifting (concentric) as fast as possible, the weights won't necessarily move fast but you should still attempt to lift them as fast as possible, I recommend slowing down the eccentric (negative), not excessively but just enough to keep tension on the muscles.

I found a video that I think further explains this concept:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKygojJgFQE

Edit: I tried this today and definitely felt the difference. This will slow down my moving up in weight on most exercises.

[standalj]

I am wondering if we get the same money reps when doing 10,5 as compared to 10,3. Felt like more with 10,3; maybe my pause is too long (45 seconds) between sets.

[Jonesman59]

I am wondering if we get the same money reps when doing 10,5 as compared to 10,3. Felt like more with 10,3; maybe my pause is too long (45 seconds) between sets.

The pause will be different for everyone. I don't even look at a clock or anything although I have been doing this format for awhile. When I feel like I am good for 3 reps I just know and same for 5 reps. It is also varies on the exercises. Just hit 3-5 like Kelei suggests I am sure there isn't too much of a difference especially in the long term. Also your endurance will get better the longer you run the program (months).